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icantfindaname posted:No, they're not going to get their asses kicked. There are multiple levels of success. They may not be the 800 pound angry gorilla like PS2 era sony was but this idea that without skype and exclusive movies they will be locked out of the market completely is loving ridiculous defeatist hyperbole. Nintendo is currently sitting at the bottom rung of success looking up into the assholes of Sony and Microsoft. Also you're being obtuse for the sake of it. Having more experience with online content and application is better than friend codes.
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Jan 12, 2014 02:32
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Boiled Water posted:Nintendo is currently sitting at the bottom rung of success looking up into the assholes of Sony and Microsoft. I don't think that's his point? I keep reading him saying Nintendo should invest in an extremely viable online infrastructure and he keeps being told that's dumb because no Skype or NFL.
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Jan 12, 2014 02:36
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:I don't think that's his point? I keep reading him saying Nintendo should invest in an extremely viable online infrastructure and he keeps being told that's dumb because no Skype or NFL. Nobody is saying that. Nintendo can, and should, invest in basic poo poo like an account system. That is a basic expectation of online functionality at this point. However no amount of money they throw at the problem is going to give them an online infrastructure that can compete with Microsoft and Sony. Even if they get their online infrastructure up to "acceptable," it isn't ever going to be called robust compared to their competitors. They can't just throw money at the problem and suddenly get over their problems because they are more than "it costs a lot." ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Jan 12, 2014 |
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Jan 12, 2014 02:38
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No he's being told Nintendo is terribly behind in experience in this area that it's out of their reach to throw manpower and money at. Nintendo is so far from the online experience Microsoft and Sony are providing that it'll take years if not decades to catch up. This happens in a predominant number of industries.
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Jan 12, 2014 02:39
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:I don't think that's his point? I keep reading him saying Nintendo should invest in an extremely viable online infrastructure and he keeps being told that's dumb because no Skype or NFL. Yes, exactly. I'm not saying they'll be able to be kings of the market again, just that I don't see a reason why they can't compete. People are way overblowing the 'synergy' or whatever that MS and Sony get with their online. We've seen with the Xbone that people don't give a gently caress about Kinect or lovely HDMI passthrough, they just want their call of duty. I legit don't understand why Nintendo can't do something comparable to PSN and have good, regular deals on the virtual console as a counterpart to Sony's free games. The answer seems to be that people buy PS4s for free movies, which is ridiculous.
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Jan 12, 2014 02:41
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Oh they can. But with the current pace it'll take 10-ish years. If you ever need an analog for Internet glacial pace Nintendo would be the word.
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Jan 12, 2014 02:44
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icantfindaname posted:Yes, exactly. I'm not saying they'll be able to be kings of the market again, just that I don't see a reason why they can't compete. People are way overblowing the 'synergy' or whatever that MS and Sony get with their online. We've seen with the Xbone that people don't give a gently caress about Kinect or lovely HDMI passthrough, they just want their call of duty. I legit don't understand why Nintendo can't do something comparable to PSN and have good, regular deals on the virtual console as a counterpart to Sony's free games. The answer seems to be that people buy PS4s for free movies, which is ridiculous. It isn't a case of "people buy PS4 for free movies." It is that the PS4 experience, as a whole, includes more than just the games and when people make their purchasing decision it is based on more than just the games because you can get Call of Duty on basically anything. Exclusive games are part of that for certain but so are the other features of the system. If offered a choice between a PS4 and a theoretical Wii2, even a Wii2 with good sales, the PS4 just offers more.
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Jan 12, 2014 02:45
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ImpAtom posted:It isn't a case of "people buy PS4 for free movies." It is that the PS4 experience, as a whole, includes more than just the games and when people make their purchasing decision it is based on more than just the games because you can get Call of Duty on basically anything. Exclusive games are part of that for certain but so are the other features of the system. If offered a choice between a PS4 and a theoretical Wii2, even a Wii2 with good sales, the PS4 just offers more. The only non-gaming thing I use my PS4 for it's superior Netflix app, as opposed to Miiverse on the Wii U, not to mention the superior internet browser, Hulu Plus and Amazon Instant Video apps on the Wii U. Seriously, X-Ray on the Amazon Instant Video app is really loving neato.
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Jan 12, 2014 03:04
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How Nintendo catches up with their online: uses some of their cash pile to pay a premium to a company like IBM to do it for them. Sure this is "outside the box" and "not very Japanese," but when you are simply incapable of doing something that is a fundamental part of your business, that is what you do.
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Jan 12, 2014 03:08
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deadwing posted:The only non-gaming thing I use my PS4 for it's superior Netflix app, as opposed to Miiverse on the Wii U, not to mention the superior internet browser, Hulu Plus and Amazon Instant Video apps on the Wii U. Seriously, X-Ray on the Amazon Instant Video app is really loving neato. The WiiU internet browser is great. Being able to take a Twitch video, flip it up to my main screen and then browse away from the site? Marvelous for email addicts like myself who don't have two PC monitors.
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Jan 12, 2014 03:21
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Bruceski posted:The WiiU internet browser is great. Being able to take a Twitch video, flip it up to my main screen and then browse away from the site? Marvelous for email addicts like myself who don't have two PC monitors. I've actually got a surprising amount of use out of the Wii U browser at parties, people really have a lot of fun finding a hilarious video or GIF to triumphantly reveal from the curtains.
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Jan 12, 2014 03:31
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I wonder why Nintendo never had the same problems with their handhelds. I know the 3DS struggled a bit at the start, with only N64 remakes to play and a high price tag, but it didn't take long for it to hit its stride. They've never had a problem attracting Japanese developers to their handhelds, especially now the home console market over there has shrunk so much, and PC gaming is almost non-existent. I'm glad that there are still a lot of people playing portable games on handhelds, since I doubt we'll see games with controls as tight as Spelunky on a touch screen, or the enormous amount of content in Pokemon X/Y without a horrible F2P scheme. I've heard that the Japanese government can bail out companies that aren't doing too well, although that didn't stop SEGA from leaving the hardware business.
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Jan 12, 2014 03:44
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That loving Sned posted:I wonder why Nintendo never had the same problems with their handhelds. I know the 3DS struggled a bit at the start, with only N64 remakes to play and a high price tag, but it didn't take long for it to hit its stride. Partially it's because Nintendo owns the portable market. Tablets and the Vita are finding their own foothold, but when it comes to games Nintendo was the only name in the business for a while and is going to be very difficult to unseat no matter how much naysayers say nay. This whole "people buy systems with games and companies make games for systems people buy" thing that's hurting the WiiU is supporting the 3DS.
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Jan 12, 2014 04:07
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Bruceski posted:Vita are finding their own foothold Hahaha Sony is getting so desperate to sell them that they are packaging them with PS4s. I love the hope and slack given to the Vita by the ones here trashing the Wii U without any sense of irony about it.
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Jan 12, 2014 04:12
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Hahaha Most people aren't giving the Vita any slack, though? Most of us use the Vita as a reference point for how completely loving dead the WiiU is. Because the Vita's dead too. And as far as I know, there is no PS4/Vita bundle actually on shelves yet. There may be plans for that to happen, but right now it's not happening, so you may as well be making poo poo up.
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Jan 12, 2014 04:13
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King of Solomon posted:Most people aren't giving the Vita any slack, though? Most of us use the Vita as a reference point for how completely loving dead the WiiU is. Because the Vita's dead too. I'm no Taint Reaper. They sold it in the UK: http://www.engadget.com/2013/11/30/playstation-4-and-ps-vita-bundle-now-available-in-the-uk/ This is where you say, "Oh well not at a discount!" as if that was ever my point.
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Jan 12, 2014 04:17
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:I'm no Taint Reaper. They sold it in the UK: http://www.engadget.com/2013/11/30/playstation-4-and-ps-vita-bundle-now-available-in-the-uk/ No, this is where I admit to being wrong.
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Jan 12, 2014 04:18
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Hahaha I'm pretty sure you'll find that the Vita has been called out as a failure multiple times in this thread alone. Of course, as a failure it also sold better than the Wii U did last year (in Japan only, the Vita may as well not exist in North America or Europe at this point). I don't know what you're really trying to say here.
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Jan 12, 2014 04:28
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That loving Sned posted:I wonder why Nintendo never had the same problems with their handhelds. I know the 3DS struggled a bit at the start, with only N64 remakes to play and a high price tag, but it didn't take long for it to hit its stride. Also because handhelds, by their nature, get a lot more leeway in the expectancy of what they're able to do. Its okay for them to be limited compared to main consoles, because they're meant to be able to fit into your pocket - same for the games involved. I brought it up either here or in one of the other Nintendo related threads, but a game series like say, Professor Layton, would never have found a home on main consoles, even accounting for its general usage of the two screen interface. Its a small and simple series really, outside of the sheer number of puzzles and what goes on in the anime cutscenes, and not what you'd expect to put on a several dozen inch wide TV screen. But on screens only a few inches long and able to fold in on themselves? Right at home. Plus, well, for all the talk of Nintendo's inability to recapture the casual market with the WiiU, handhelds are very much a form of casual gaming device. You can take them anywhere, whether to a friend's house or on a cross country journey - you don't have to leave it behind or leave it sitting in a box until you can find another tv screen to plug it into. Bored as you're waiting five to ten minutes? Switch on Tetris/Pokémon/Professor Layton/whatever and kill a few minutes before putting it away again. Hence also the discussion of smart phones eating into that - because for game apps at least, they offer the same basic deal (though of course the content varies quite a bit).
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Jan 12, 2014 04:31
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PC + Wii U is such a great combo. I get all the high end games on my PC, and then the GF and I can play Super Mario 3D World (GOTY) and have a blast.
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Jan 12, 2014 04:33
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Hahaha I'm not one of the ones trying to trash the WiiU, and I chose "finding their foothold" carefully to avoid trashing it, because I think the only console out there truly worthy of being called "it's garbage" is the OUYA. I could have said "trying to find a niche" but then folks would complain that I had included tablets there that have FOUND their niche.
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Jan 12, 2014 04:34
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icantfindaname posted:Why on earth did they let Rare get sold? Did they really not have the money to buy them? Eh... I remember really being bummed out about it at the time, but then Rare stopped making good games. I don't even understand the concept of buying a studio when they just fire all the key employees that worked for them in the end
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Jan 12, 2014 04:40
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Astro Nut posted:Plus, well, for all the talk of Nintendo's inability to recapture the casual market with the WiiU, handhelds are very much a form of casual gaming device. You can take them anywhere, whether to a friend's house or on a cross country journey - you don't have to leave it behind or leave it sitting in a box until you can find another tv screen to plug it into. Bored as you're waiting five to ten minutes? Switch on Tetris/Pokémon/Professor Layton/whatever and kill a few minutes before putting it away again. Hence also the discussion of smart phones eating into that - because for game apps at least, they offer the same basic deal (though of course the content varies quite a bit). Nintendo's definitely had a focus on portability while the other consoles were going big and saying "I dominate the home theater, size = power, power = fun." The Gamecube had a handle, I can fit the Wii into a pocket of my jacket (a large pocket, but I don't have to walk funny or anything with it in there), and the WiiU's the smallest and lightest of the current gen, something I don't mind taking to a game night so some folks can mess around in Mario while waiting for others to finish up their game of Cataan.
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Jan 12, 2014 04:43
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Nintendo allowed Rare to be sold because the Stampers wanted to be bought out and Nintendo knew the studio wouldn't be worth poo poo once people started leaving, and they also didn't like the idea of having to share ownership with some other unknown party, so they agreed to provisionally acquire the remaining shares from the Stampers and then immediately sell the entire company once they'd found a buyer.
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Jan 12, 2014 04:53
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fivegears4reverse posted:I think Nintendo can more than afford to set up a robust online infrastructure, hell they could even afford to maintain it over time. They simply don't care. Nintendo has a history of pretending the competition isn't doing anything worth paying attention to. I wonder why they don't use a third-party infrastructure, like how Sony went with Limelight for PSN.
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Jan 12, 2014 04:55
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Toady posted:I wonder why they don't use a third-party infrastructure, like how Sony went with Limelight for PSN. They do. A lot of their ancillary services like Miiverse and Flipnote are handled by Hatena, and they recently bought a stake in the company that owns Nico Nico Douga.
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Jan 12, 2014 04:59
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Hahaha Hope and slack? You've repeated this notion of a pro-Sony/anti-Nintendo bias before, and I don't know what you're referring to.
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Jan 12, 2014 05:07
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Hahaha I give the Vita more slack because it's a handheld and a pretty well designed one at that. Other than the proprietary memory card bullshit, it has a capacitive touchscreen that looks great and responds well, a decent crosspad, and sweet god almighty, two analog sticks. It just has crummy support and a dearth of games. The framework is there though.
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Jan 12, 2014 05:09
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Nintendo allowed Rare to be sold because the Stampers wanted to be bought out and Nintendo knew the studio wouldn't be worth poo poo once people started leaving, and they also didn't like the idea of having to share ownership with some other unknown party, so they agreed to provisionally acquire the remaining shares from the Stampers and then immediately sell the entire company once they'd found a buyer. I remember thinking at the time "drat, Nintendo got a drat good deal" and really, they did. Rare is more or less just another generic game studio now. Also, taking a step back, the Vita really is a solid platform but, like the WiiU, suffers from lack of compelling software, initially confusing SKUs, a higher pricetag, an experienced competitor, proprietary memory (thank god the 3DS uses SD cards), and most importantly that drove the success of the PSP, no Monster Hunter.
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Jan 12, 2014 05:15
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The one compelling thing about the Vita though that will eventually probably push me to get one is the pile of free PS Plus games there have been. Even if many of them are just ports of PS3 games. I mean at this point if I bought a Vita I'd have like 30 games to play.
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Jan 12, 2014 05:22
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Toady posted:Hope and slack? You've repeated this notion of a pro-Sony/anti-Nintendo bias before, and I don't know what you're referring to. Yeah this entire thread has been pretty on track for the most part other than the occasional console warrior. Unless he's referring to the GBS games thread, which isn't to be taken seriously. That loving Sned posted:I wonder why Nintendo never had the same problems with their handhelds. I know the 3DS struggled a bit at the start, with only N64 remakes to play and a high price tag, but it didn't take long for it to hit its stride. Pretty sure the handhelds are done by a different branch. They've got different guys behind it, but you still get major screw-ups like the recent Pokémon bank thing because they honestly were not expecting that many people to log onto the e-shop. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Jan 12, 2014 |
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Jan 12, 2014 05:30
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oswald ownenstein posted:PC + Wii U is such a great combo. Yes sir I bought a mighty fine PC a year and a half ago and a Wii U this Summer and have no idea why anyone would buy a Playstation 4 or XBox One if they were in my position. Is there anything XB1/PS4 exclusive coming out that isn't also on the computer? Anything that someone would actually care about playing I mean. The Last Guardian hehaw. I think Sony will end up with enough good stuff to entice me into buying a Playstation 4 in about three years though. whaley fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Jan 12, 2014 |
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Jan 12, 2014 07:26
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Bruceski posted:Nintendo's definitely had a focus on portability while the other consoles were going big and saying "I dominate the home theater, size = power, power = fun." The Gamecube had a handle, I can fit the Wii into a pocket of my jacket (a large pocket, but I don't have to walk funny or anything with it in there), and the WiiU's the smallest and lightest of the current gen, something I don't mind taking to a game night so some folks can mess around in Mario while waiting for others to finish up their game of Cataan. The Gamecube was a pretty nifty console. It had those little mini CDs, was just a cube with a handle, and had a great - albeit awkward - controller.
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Jan 12, 2014 07:45
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whaley posted:Yes sir I bought a mighty fine PC a year and a half ago and a Wii U this Summer and have no idea why anyone would buy a Playstation 4 or XBox One if they were in my position. Is there anything XB1/PS4 exclusive coming out that isn't also on the computer? Anything that someone would actually care about playing I mean. The Last Guardian hehaw. I think Sony will end up with enough good stuff to entice me into buying a Playstation 4 in about three years though. Infamous: Second Son looked pretty.
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Jan 12, 2014 07:51
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whaley posted:Yes sir I bought a mighty fine PC a year and a half ago and a Wii U this Summer and have no idea why anyone would buy a Playstation 4 or XBox One if they were in my position. As someone who recently upgraded his PC to being pretty solid (not absolute top of the line, but still pretty drat good)? Because playing games on PC loving sucks. Even when it works well and has absolutely no hitches or quirks, nine times out of ten I would prefer it on a console. quote:Is there anything XB1/PS4 exclusive coming out that isn't also on the computer? Anything that someone would actually care about playing I mean. The Last Guardian hehaw. I think Sony will end up with enough good stuff to entice me into buying a Playstation 4 in about three years though. inFamous: Second Son looks fantastic and you know Naughty Dog will continue to make really good games. Then there are all those random smaller titles that will never hit PC for one reason or another, like Journey? There are always console exclusives, and drat good ones. It always really confuses me when someone says the PC is a good replacement for the 360 or especially the PS3, because it just...isn't. I'm sure the Xbone has similar things coming for it, I haven't been paying much attention and Titanfall isn't an Xbone exclusive (though by all accounts it sounds like the Xbone version is going to be the best version.)
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Jan 12, 2014 07:54
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Count me in on the PC + Wii U crowd. That's how you do video games.
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Jan 12, 2014 08:32
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Too many console-exclusive games for me to stick to PC, and many ports take forever.
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Jan 12, 2014 08:58
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This isn't a PC thread.
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Jan 12, 2014 14:27
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icantfindaname posted:I'm just going to quote a chunk of that article Louisgod posted, because it's pretty insightful. After reading the UK dev's problems with the dev toolchains so much of that article really pops out. What page-turners! Louisgod's article posted:Throughout the lifespan of the Nintendo 64, the company faced criticism for not having third party developers in mind when creating the Nintendo 64′s hardware and development tools. Nintendo of America Chairman Howard Lincoln would publicly apology for the lack of third party support. ”With the complexity of N64 technology it is incumbent upon us, and good business sense, to fully support third parties through the development process. To date, I don’t think we have provided as much support as we did with the Super NES and NES platforms,” said Lincoln. Secret Wii U dev posted:Nintendo had provided an integration of their development tools into Visual Studio - the de facto standard for development - but it didn't work, not even close. So time was spent trying to get this fixed up, while reporting the issue to the platform holder. Eventually we received a solution from Nintendo via another third-party company who had also been working on this issue for a while. Holy poo poo Nintendo. Stop it. e: Sorry for the wall-o-text. Added some bolding but if you have a free afternoon really sit down and read these two articles. Heran Bago fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jan 12, 2014 |
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Jan 12, 2014 15:15
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The Vita has underperformed at retail, but the hardware is solid as a rock, the game library is far more robust and varied than the U's, By giving away a ton of top-shelf flagship titles for free with PS+ while positioning Vita as a sort of optional gamepad-style add on, Sony is at least doing everything it can to make it an attractive proposition, especially to PS4 owners. Sony's Vita problem is that it has put out a first class premium product in a category that has been overwhelmingly dominated by younger players and is shifting largely to .99 throwaway phone distractions for everyone else. Nintendo's U problem is that it thinks history ended after 1994, and they viewed the Wii's fluke success as total validation of their arrogance, rather than a precious, cash-flush opportunity to regroup and come hard in the next cycle.
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