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Axetrain posted:Although climate change is going to be a worldwide catastrophe in a few decades I have a morbid curiosity about how the deniers are going to deny their denial once things have gotten bad enough to show their bullshit for what it is. They're not, they're just going to slide the goalposts over to saying it was naturally occurring and there was nothing we could have done, MLK was a Republican, etc. and no one sufficiently important is going to call them out on it.
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Jan 11, 2014 19:28
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That's pretty much it. My non-American friends who are progressive way beyond America on almost any scale who disbelieve in anthropogenic climate change all use exactly that argument. Oh, sure, it's happening, but it has nothing to do with our behavior - just look how many times it's happened in the past. I'm like, "Yeah, our population has gone from 1.5 billion to 7 billion in 100 years during an industrial revolution and that's had no effect - are you seriously that stupid?"
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Jan 11, 2014 19:54
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ReindeerF posted:That's pretty much it. My non-American friends who are progressive way beyond America on almost any scale who disbelieve in anthropogenic climate change all use exactly that argument. Oh, sure, it's happening, but it has nothing to do with our behavior - just look how many times it's happened in the past. I'm like, "Yeah, our population has gone from 1.5 billion to 7 billion in 100 years during an industrial revolution and that's had no effect - are you seriously that stupid?" I never argue climate change. I always take the stance that climate change is at best a secondary concern for me when it comes to limiting pollutants even if I think the data is convincing. I'd rather argue by showing them pictures from the few people I know in China of smog that limits your vision to several feet or data showing increased cancer rates and childhood asthma around ports and other areas with high emissions. If they still want to argue I pretty much just throw my hands up and tell them I don't plan to have kids anyway so what-the-gently caress-ever. e: I mean, poo poo, if people really think the EPA is holding us back from competing with China then I just whip out a few pics sent by my Ex who's on a teaching contract in Shanghai   That's not fog Good Citizen fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 11, 2014 |
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Jan 11, 2014 20:02
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Yeah, it's like vaccines, you just can't win it. The thing that bugs me is that weird subset of very intelligent, well-informed, non-Americans contrarians out there with socialist politics and no remote investment in the energy field who obviously don't believe it just because they're contrarians. I mean come on, can we save the contrarian poo poo for the piddly topics?
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Jan 11, 2014 20:06
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Good Citizen posted:I never argue climate change. I always take the stance that climate change is at best a secondary concern for me when it comes to limiting pollutants even if I think the data is convincing. I'd rather argue by showing them pictures from the few people I know in China of smog that limits your vision to several feet or data showing increased cancer rates and childhood asthma around ports and other areas with high emissions. There's also the resource scarcity argument - even if someone doesn't give a poo poo about pollution, the sheer number of hoops we have to jump through to pull oil out of the ground these days should be concerning to anyone who likes having a first-world lifestyle.
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Jan 11, 2014 20:19
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Good Citizen posted:
I don't understand what I'm looking at here, a wall? Oh drat I just realized that's a window  , on my phone it was hard to tell.
Axetrain fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jan 11, 2014 |
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Jan 11, 2014 20:32
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Axetrain posted:I don't understand what I'm looking at here, a wall? That is a picture looking outside through a glass door to the porch. You can sort of see the railing along the bottom right of the picture
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Jan 11, 2014 20:36
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Good Citizen posted:That is a picture looking outside through a glass door to the porch. You can sort of see the railing along the bottom right of the picture The Mist is real but instead of dimensional monsters it's cheap consumer goods.
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Jan 11, 2014 20:46
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Sephyr posted:No. He just made a very conscious decision to be a paid shill. He could have busted his rear end 10 hours a day to try and save consumers a few bucks, but the few of them who even remembered his name would only have words of thanks for him, and those are a dime a dozen. That's why journalists who don't sell out and speak truth to power do it for reasons other than a paycheck after all. The cluelessness of the 'gently caress you, got mine' generation is tempered by the fact that the senile lacking-in-self-awareness fucks are literally dying out now. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jan 11, 2014 |
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Jan 11, 2014 21:50
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Speaking of anti-vax, Savage is apparently declaring war on the flu shot. I didn't stick around to hear the details, but it's cute coming from a man who regularly waves around a PhD in something like ethnobotany that has gone unused for decades.
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Jan 12, 2014 05:38
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Rorus Raz posted:Speaking of anti-vax, Savage is apparently declaring war on the flu shot. I didn't stick around to hear the details, but it's cute coming from a man who regularly waves around a PhD in something like ethnobotany that has gone unused for decades. Are you somehow implying that unjustified appeals to authority isn't using his PhD?
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Jan 12, 2014 05:41
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I got a flu shot because my Mom's immune system is suppressed from the cancer treatments she's undergoing. It's drat near a civic duty to get vaccinated. gently caress Savage. gently caress him in the ear. Forever. Dr Christmas fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Jan 12, 2014 |
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Jan 12, 2014 05:46
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Listen to this http://www.michaelsavage.wnd.com/wp-includes/ms-files.php?file=2013/01/Savage-FLu-Segment.mp3 It's eight minutes of full-on McCarthy grade anti-vax 
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Jan 12, 2014 05:51
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I like how he talks about how great Western Medicine is, being a big fan of homeopathy. It is interesting how he couldn't bring himself to decry all vaccination, just the flu shot (while applying the individualist paranoia that underlies all anti-vax). I'm sure the Alzheimer's Institute he founded in the 90's is really reputable, too.
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Jan 12, 2014 06:27
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Rorus Raz posted:Speaking of anti-vax, Savage is apparently declaring war on the flu shot. I didn't stick around to hear the details, but it's cute coming from a man who regularly waves around a PhD in something like ethnobotany that has gone unused for decades. Appeals to Authority are an odd thing that the GOP does. My college's campus Republicans invited a few speakers to come out and talk about how bad abortion is and how it does irreversible damage to the mother and causes AIDS and so forth. The speakers were all PhDs but if you dug a little deeper not one of them had a proper doctorate. Every single one held "multiple honorary doctorates" from theological organizations, generally parochial colleges, and always in things absolutely unrelated to anything they were talking about. The worst was a woman (because, obviously, they must care about women's issues if they have a woman speaking, right?) that had two honorary doctorates because she translated some things. She came in and gave a lecture about the biological affects of abortion. Because I guess translating religious texts makes you an expert on things invented centuries after they were originally written? I have no idea. I find it ironic because on one hand it's constantly "pfft, stupid college lieberals, hanging around their ivory towers, what do they know?" but on the other hand it's "this educated person is educated so they are right about all things and know all things, forever."
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Jan 12, 2014 07:21
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Appeals to Authority are an odd thing that the GOP does. My college's campus Republicans invited a few speakers to come out and talk about how bad abortion is and how it does irreversible damage to the mother and causes AIDS and so forth. The speakers were all PhDs but if you dug a little deeper not one of them had a proper doctorate. Every single one held "multiple honorary doctorates" from theological organizations, generally parochial colleges, and always in things absolutely unrelated to anything they were talking about. It's not really all that confusing. Appeals to authority when doing so agrees with my current stance. States right when those states agree with me. Both sides do it though I generally find the liberal side more compelling.
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Jan 12, 2014 07:55
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Good Citizen posted:I think my favorite thing to do in short moments of downtime these days is open drudge, click on the least political sounding link I can find, and watch the comments section explode with people ranting about lieberals!!! Are you reading the Freep thread? If you aren't you should be, this is exactly what the entire thread is about (though with free republic and not drudge).
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Jan 12, 2014 16:24
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I feel the only reason tend not to get flu shots is because the flu "isn't that bad". They'll liken it to a "stomach flu", which doesn't exist, and say they'll throw up a few times and be sick for like a day or two. Which, honestly, that's what I always thought the flu was. Instead, it's like two weeks of holy-poo poo-I'm-probably-going-to-die sickness. Although I've never gotten the flu myself, I find it interesting that people are so vehemently against it. Probably somewhat overly-hyped things like SARS and swine and bird flu aren't helping. And even then, those probably weren't a big deal because actually people went out received a shot and did all the things you're supposed to do to help stop the spread and then nothing happened... just as you'd expect. But then people decry what the big deal was. It's all government blah blah blah. Big Pharma. Doom and gloom. If you're interested in plenty of extremely detailed flu shot writings and/or podcasts explaining why you should get them and how there's no over the counter or prescription drugs for the flu that work, contrary to claims otherwise, check out Mark Crislip.
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Jan 12, 2014 16:36
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Appeals to Authority are an odd thing that the GOP does. My college's campus Republicans invited a few speakers to come out and talk about how bad abortion is and how it does irreversible damage to the mother and causes AIDS and so forth. The speakers were all PhDs but if you dug a little deeper not one of them had a proper doctorate. Every single one held "multiple honorary doctorates" from theological organizations, generally parochial colleges, and always in things absolutely unrelated to anything they were talking about. This is the par for Creationists too, I would guess it came from this area of the relgious right as it has been going on for so long. A high percentage of them declare they have a PHD or are a doctor/scientist on something, and it turns out either to be from Liberty University or on a subject that is so far related like you said. One of the best fake pieces of poo poo is Ian Juby. He claims to have a PHd, and an IQ of 160. Then 2 mins later he is showing PROOF that dinosaurs laid eggs in a line because the flood was chasing after them. And all it is some fossilized eggs laid out in a row with inches between then.
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Jan 12, 2014 16:42
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Lycus posted:I'm putting all my money in stockpiling salt. When civilization falls, we'll be trading with salt. You're all crazy. Stockpile cigarettes if you want sweet apocalypse bux. (At least until people realize tobacco is easier to grow than even pot).
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Jan 12, 2014 17:42
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The tl;dr about the flu vaccine is that it's a good idea for children, the elderly, and people with auto-immune deficiencies. If you're a healthy young adult, you can probably skip it.
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Jan 12, 2014 18:14
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Phone posted:The tl;dr about the flu vaccine is that it's a good idea for children, the elderly, and people with auto-immune deficiencies. If you're a healthy young adult, you can probably skip it. "Flu turns severe in U.S., Chattanooga area; young, middle-age adults at greater risk ... The influenza strain known as H1N1 has resurged as the predominant strain of influenza circulating in the Chattanooga area and across the nation this season -- meaning young and middle-age adults are far more vulnerable to the illness than they typically are. Local health officials say their concern is not so much the number of cases they are seeing, but the severity of the strains they are treating. "What our providers are seeing are reports of severe illness, particularly in young and middle-age adults," said Nettie Gerstle, communicable disease program manager for the Chattanooga-Hamilton County Health Department.
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Jan 12, 2014 18:24
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Hodgepodge posted:You're all crazy. Takes two years to cure the stuff properly to be smoked though; unlike pot. Invest in the tobacco; two years of survival post apocalypse is a good deal.
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Jan 12, 2014 18:32
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Rorus Raz posted:Listen to this http://www.michaelsavage.wnd.com/wp-includes/ms-files.php?file=2013/01/Savage-FLu-Segment.mp3 Did you know that the flu shot has a 50% chance of preventing the flu yet is simultaneously no better than a placebo? At 6:00. EDIT: Comparing flu mortality rate against flu contraction rate. I love this guy...
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Jan 12, 2014 19:25
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Hodgepodge posted:You're all crazy. If there's one thing I learned from Metro 2033 its that ammunition is the only thing that'll keep you supplied with sweet sweet mushroom vodka.
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Jan 12, 2014 19:30
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Hodgepodge posted:You're all crazy. I'm stockpiling hair products. If our best augers of the post-apocalyptic future are correct, those items will be absolutely essential.
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Jan 12, 2014 19:34
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Shbobdb posted:I'm stockpiling hair products. If our best augers of the post-apocalyptic future are correct, those items will be absolutely essential. I've been hoarding fetish wear and mismatched bits of metal armor. Together, we can rule the world.
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Jan 12, 2014 19:39
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:Are you reading the Freep thread? If you aren't you should be, this is exactly what the entire thread is about (though with free republic and not drudge). Seems like you can do this with any comments section anywhere, no matter what the story's about or the subject of the board is.
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Jan 12, 2014 19:41
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BiggerBoat posted:Seems like you can do this with any comments section anywhere, no matter what the story's about or the subject of the board is. Doesn't even matter what language the story is in, the comments will be frothing right wing lunacy.
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Jan 12, 2014 19:45
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Orange Devil posted:Doesn't even matter what language the story is in, the comments will be frothing right wing lunacy. No poo poo. Here's a link to ChinaSmack which is a website that translates Chinese comments on popular Chinese news sites into English and provides annotations and explanations of popular idioms. From what I can tell, the Chinese have the same witless, over-aggressive dipshits on their Internet that we do in the West. It really is a small world after all! Edit: And ho ho holy poo poo are they looking forward to Season 3 of Sherlock. Zeroisanumber fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jan 12, 2014 |
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Jan 12, 2014 19:50
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It is interesting, looking at things like climate change and the flu vaccination, how rather than just say they don't want to do something because it is for the benefit of other people/the world and not solely the individual, they put all this effort into disproving that the thing that would require them to care about other people would even have a meaningful impact. They know they are selfish, but they'd rather attack the idea then just acknowledge that openly. It's loving bizarre. Cutting down on pollution might require me to minorly inconvenience myself by carpooling or buying a smaller, more efficient car so rather than just say I don't want to do those things, I'm going to say I'm not going to do those things because the entire purpose for doing so is false and then I can be a lazy shithead and still consider myself a good person.
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Jan 12, 2014 20:14
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Phone posted:The tl;dr about the flu vaccine is that it's a good idea for children, the elderly, and people with auto-immune deficiencies. If you're a healthy young adult, you can probably skip it. Also, I cannot believe homeopathy is still a thing. I pretty much knew I could brush off the rest of what Savage said as bullshit once he endorsed loving homeopathy.
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Jan 12, 2014 20:54
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* - unless you're donny_paycheck.
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Jan 12, 2014 20:55
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mr. mephistopheles posted:It is interesting, looking at things like climate change and the flu vaccination, how rather than just say they don't want to do something because it is for the benefit of other people/the world and not solely the individual, they put all this effort into disproving that the thing that would require them to care about other people would even have a meaningful impact. They know they are selfish, but they'd rather attack the idea then just acknowledge that openly. It's loving bizarre. Cutting down on pollution might require me to minorly inconvenience myself by carpooling or buying a smaller, more efficient car so rather than just say I don't want to do those things, I'm going to say I'm not going to do those things because the entire purpose for doing so is false and then I can be a lazy shithead and still consider myself a good person. They need to find a reason that actually sounds plausible. "I do not want environmental regulations because individual rights and freedom" is more convincing than "I do not want environmental regulations because I want to make profits at all costs regardless of how many people have flipper babies that die of cancer at 30 because of it." A lot of it is also controlling the debate. When people are talking about individual rights instead of the effects of the policies it's easier to convince people that it's perfectly OK to wantonly ravage the environment. Same goes for other issues, too. It's why right wing media only ever talks about taxes in the welfare debate. Millions of starving children aren't mentioned nor is the mass suffering cutting welfare programs causes. It's easier to swallow if it's "well we just want to reduce your taxes and stimulate the economy."
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Jan 12, 2014 21:15
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ToxicSlurpee posted:They need to find a reason that actually sounds plausible. "I do not want environmental regulations because individual rights and freedom" is more convincing than "I do not want environmental regulations because I want to make profits at all costs regardless of how many people have flipper babies that die of cancer at 30 because of it." A lot of it is also controlling the debate. When people are talking about individual rights instead of the effects of the policies it's easier to convince people that it's perfectly OK to wantonly ravage the environment. Same goes for other issues, too. It's why right wing media only ever talks about taxes in the welfare debate. Millions of starving children aren't mentioned nor is the mass suffering cutting welfare programs causes. It's easier to swallow if it's "well we just want to reduce your taxes and stimulate the economy." Oh, I was talking about the average working class Republican voter, not the politicians. They have completely different motivations.
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Jan 12, 2014 21:18
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They do have an answer. Without "prosperity," "Canada" and "Greece." In "Canada" (not to be confused with Canada), there may be proportionally fewer flipper babies due to crushing environmental regulations. However, the elderly all die in waiting rooms, queued up to use the only MRI machine in Manitoba. In "Greece," everyone selfishly demanded services from government until the government collapsed. So you see, freedom (meaning a total lack of environmental controls) is the only way to avoid the total collapse of civilization. I'm sorry, were you about to give a counter-argument, with facts and figures perhaps? I can't hear you over the sound of Sean Hannity playing through a stack of Marshall amps.
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Jan 12, 2014 21:24
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mr. mephistopheles posted:Oh, I was talking about the average working class Republican voter, not the politicians. They have completely different motivations. Yup and they kind of go hand in hand, ultimately. A lot of Republican voters get suckered in by "vote for us, we will give you more freedom and less taxes" while completely ignoring that Republican policy ultimately hurts them.
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Jan 12, 2014 21:25
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SedanChair posted:However, the elderly all die in waiting rooms, queued up to use the only MRI machine in Manitoba. That reminds me, I was arguing about how much American healthcare sucks at work on Friday and one of my coworkers said Canadian healthcare is also terrible. Her reasoning? When she was going to university in Vancouver they didn't provide her with the healthcare that actual citizens receive and instead of giving her some kind of medicine they told her she just needed rest and a lot of fluids, which was probably true. No free healthcare for me, a non-citizen, and not giving me some worthless prescription that I don't need? Terrible healthcare system.
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Jan 12, 2014 22:15
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Rorus Raz posted:Listen to this http://www.michaelsavage.wnd.com/wp-includes/ms-files.php?file=2013/01/Savage-FLu-Segment.mp3 This just seems like a new low to me. There's barely any political motivation for this aside from the generic "government encourages vaccination, government is bad, therefore vaccinations are bad". It's just baseless fear-mongering that could needlessly increase the odds of people getting sick or possibly dying. Meanwhile, another right-wing radio host apparently flat-out lost his mind last week: Buffalo News posted:Amherst police responded to a 911 call early Wednesday morning at the Williamsville home of WBEN talk show host Tom Bauerle, who told officers he was under surveillance by operatives of Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, according to two law enforcement sources familiar with the situation.
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Jan 12, 2014 22:49
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