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U.T. Raptor posted:Oh, hey, look what I found while going through one of my image folders. I don't even remember having this, must have gotten it from a previous version of this thread Ah yes, those five pillars of story telling. The classical archetypes that informed the western literary tradition. loving DILBERT. Did Dilbert even have a plot!?!
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Jan 12, 2014 07:52
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I think the first season of the tv show was one continuous plot, but... Yeah, even then, Dilbert has pretty much no long-standing plotlines (from what I remember of it before I simultaneously got bored with it and read up on Scott Adams, anyways).
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Jan 12, 2014 08:06
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Chexoid posted:Ah yes, those five pillars of story telling. The classical archetypes that informed the western literary tradition. The Dilbert "molecule" is Hilarity Ensues + Static Character + Status Quo is God. That's such a vague description that it could be literally any episodic comedy. I'm not exactly championing Dilbert as an example of high art but goddamn you could get deeper analysis of it by taking any random panel and showing it to any random person who had never heard of Dilbert before and asking for their impressions. Let's see what tropers have to say about Dilbert! quote:Harsher in Hindsight: The strip began on April 16, 1989. Needless to say, its 18th birthday wasn't a good one, and every other birthday since hasn't been all that great. Fortunately, unlike Garfield, this strip doesn't do formal birthday celebration episodes. And life sucks in this strip's universe, anyway. ("wasn't a good one" links to the Wikipedia article on the Virginia Tech shooting) The strip started on a day and then something completely unrelated happened decades later on the same date must catalog this important literary trope 
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Jan 12, 2014 08:21
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U.T. Raptor posted:Oh, hey, look what I found while going through one of my image folders. I don't even remember having this, must have gotten it from a previous version of this thread Notice how themes aren't mentioned at all. I think I've said it before, but if tropers summarised 1984 they'd say that its a story where a guy wakes up, meets a girl, has sex with said girl, then gets arrested by the government and brainwashed. That's all they'd have to say.
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Jan 12, 2014 12:23
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U.T. Raptor posted:BEEP BOOP STORYTELLING: I'm glad this bullshit didn't exist when I was a clueless, impressionable 13-year old trying to take up fiction writing. Of course, everything I wrote back then was hilariously bad, but I at least saw the writing process as something very different than playing with Legos, and I was able to develop my abilities over time. If I could go to TV Tropes back then, I might have said "Wow, this is easy" and decided that the reason no one liked my stories was because world wasn't ready for me before quitting in frustration, and I wouldn't have developed a rewarding hobby.
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Jan 12, 2014 12:28
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MinistryofLard posted:Notice how themes aren't mentioned at all. Bonus irony as cutting up facts and stories into easily digestible chunks, regardless of the reasoning or truth is basically Winston's job.
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Jan 12, 2014 13:48
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U.T. Raptor posted:Oh, hey, look what I found while going through one of my image folders. I don't even remember having this, must have gotten it from a previous version of this thread Look at how many pagelinks "Conflict" gets (400) versus poo poo like "Woobie" (5500) or "Badass" (7900). Truly, Tropers have their storytelling priorities in order! edit: Oh sorry, I was mistaken. It's not 400 links, it's 40. 
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Jan 12, 2014 14:43
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System Metternich posted:Look at how many pagelinks "Conflict" gets (400) versus poo poo like "Woobie" (5500) or "Badass" (7900). Truly, Tropers have their storytelling priorities in order! Well, it's understandable, since of their five example "story molecules," Conflict is only in one of them. Same with only one of them having a Hero. None of them have Story Arcs, Climaxes, or Endings though.
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Jan 12, 2014 15:02
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I like the 10 links to the concept of antagonist. Certainly not some important bedrock of fiction.
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Jan 12, 2014 16:40
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Alpacalips Now posted:I'm glad this bullshit didn't exist when I was a clueless, impressionable 13-year old trying to take up fiction writing. Of course, everything I wrote back then was hilariously bad, but I at least saw the writing process as something very different than playing with Legos, and I was able to develop my abilities over time. If I could go to TV Tropes back then, I might have said "Wow, this is easy" and decided that the reason no one liked my stories was because world wasn't ready for me before quitting in frustration, and I wouldn't have developed a rewarding hobby. You know, I did peruse TVTropes when I was in high school. I didn't know anything about the creepiness or the forums-side bullshit, but I had a gas of a time reading the wiki proper. But I have to say, even when I *tried* to use it as a writing tool, I couldn't. I remember they had (still have?) a writing tool called a "Random Plot Generator." It gives you the "trope" hero, the trope villain, the plot, a challenge, a setting, and maybe some other things. In theory, it was a useful tool to just get the ball rolling if you wanted to write something just for the sake of writing (and if you were thoughtful enough to know that you could discard any of the elements you rolled if you thought of something better to use instead- whoa, fiction as something malleable that the author actually has *FULL CONTROL* over??? Put me in a basket and send me down the river!). But as far as real use goes, as everyone here has pointed out at one time or another, all it is is a collection of "things that happen in media." It is a hardware store where all of the items are labeled either in undivinable esoteric references or simply in Japanese, all of the packages contain no useful information on what the item does or how to use it, they just tell you about famous Japanese buildings that were built using it (or WEREN'T built using it!! Or were built using a SIMILAR item!! Or, who cares! I just want to talk about this one building SO MUCH!!!), and if you ask any of the employees for help they just want to talk about sex, rape, the inherently inferior races, or their favorite Japanese building. While the manager had deliberately laid out the store in a way that makes it weirdly easy for you as a customer to gently caress things up if you want, difficult for eager customers to find what they need, and while also having the roster of employee SSN#s available if you lean over the checkout counter a little bit.
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Jan 12, 2014 16:50
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Sham bam bamina! posted:That has to be one of the most infuriating goddamn images I've ever seen. rottweiler.jpg
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Jan 12, 2014 18:36
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MinistryofLard posted:I think I've said it before, but if tropers summarised 1984 they'd say that its a story where a guy wakes up, meets a girl, has sex with said girl, then gets arrested by the government and brainwashed. That's all they'd have to say. Don't forget shipping.
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Jan 12, 2014 22:28
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Chexoid posted:Ah yes, those five pillars of story telling. The classical archetypes that informed the western literary tradition. Dilbert's appearance on the list is extremely appropriate. In one of the early hardbacks Scott Adams added an appendix which broke down his basic formula for generating humor, and it's really like a prototrope for putting together crappy humor. Six different ingredients for humor were presented for the enterprising young humor writer to use including cute, cruelty, and weirdness. Then it gave examples on how to use this information.
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Jan 12, 2014 23:31
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J. Evans Pritchard, Ph.D. posted:To fully understand poetry, we must first be fluent with its meter, rhyme and figures of speech, then ask two questions: 1) How artfully has the objective of the poem been rendered and 2) How important is that objective? Question 1 rates the poem's perfection; question 2 rates its importance. And once these questions have been answered, determining the poem's greatness becomes a relatively simple matter. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/DeadPoetsSociety
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Jan 12, 2014 23:34
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:Bonus irony as cutting up facts and stories into easily digestible chunks, regardless of the reasoning or truth is basically Winston's job. Like they would actually understand that. You know how much they hate classic literature. In their eyes, this is what they see Waiting for Godot as: 
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Jan 13, 2014 02:05
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Yeah, well, the teacher who made them read it in high school was the same one who
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Jan 13, 2014 05:11
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U.T. Raptor posted:Oh, hey, look what I found while going through one of my image folders. I don't even remember having this, must have gotten it from a previous version of this thread I've always felt that the fanservice tropes truly are the "noble" gases of their site. Also why do nerds feel the need to make a loving periodic table of everything?
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Jan 13, 2014 05:30
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U.T. Raptor posted:Oh, hey, look what I found while going through one of my image folders. I don't even remember having this, must have gotten it from a previous version of this thread fanon has a higher popularity than canon 
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Jan 13, 2014 05:34
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crowfeathers posted:TvTropes Pleads the Fifth: fanon has a higher popularity than canon
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Jan 13, 2014 05:37
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quote:Sliding Scale of Cynicism: Although deconstructed, double subverted, and generally played with beyond all recognition, the film still tries to promote an idealistic viewpoint, even though a lot of situations in DPS are firmly on the cynical end. Look at this. It's like they're so close to understanding the concept of a theme, but then they can't do anything with it because you can't break adolescent frustration, the struggle between conformity and self-expression, or the question of what makes a good teacher into 1's and 0's. And gently caress that guy who called Neil's suicide a Stupid Sacrifice, a trope page featuring a picture of a woman jumping in front of Superman to stop a bullet. How the gently caress does someone not understand tragedy, and why does said person attempt to analyze anything?
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Jan 13, 2014 05:50
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anti-magic posted:I've always felt that the fanservice tropes truly are the "noble" gases of their site. I figured they'd be the precious metals, like gold, silver, and platinum, since, in the mind of a troper, they're more valuable. quote:Also why do nerds feel the need to make a loving periodic table of everything? Because that's how their minds work?
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Jan 13, 2014 06:25
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These links speak volumes. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Suspense http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tension
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Jan 13, 2014 06:49
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Akett posted:These links speak volumes. TVTropes Pleads the Fifth - Fanon: 1300 Results, Tension: A broken redirect
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Jan 13, 2014 06:55
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Penny Paper posted:Because that's how their minds work? Close. It's how they want their minds to work. Every XKCD-quoting, Bitcoin shilling turbonerd that spends more time on MMO Theorycraft than they do playing the game has been barely passable beyond high school pre-Calc. The two people I've known like this that want to be writers talk at great length about how they don't want some rear end in a top hat editor to ruin *~*~their story~*~*. Also I can't read the thing because it's not ready after three years. Despite this they will introduce themselves as writers and unironically say poo poo like "I'm going to try SCIENCE!"
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Jan 13, 2014 08:23
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Razorwired posted:Close. It's how they want their minds to work. Every XKCD-quoting, Bitcoin shilling turbonerd that spends more time on MMO Theorycraft than they do playing the game has been barely passable beyond high school pre-Calc. The two people I've known like this that want to be writers talk at great length about how they don't want some rear end in a top hat editor to ruin *~*~their story~*~*. Also I can't read the thing because it's not ready after three years. Despite this they will introduce themselves as writers and unironically say poo poo like "I'm going to try SCIENCE!" It's been said in this thread before, but tropers don't want to write something, they want to have written something. If anything, the thing they would want to write would be a wiki detailing their super-original fantasy or sci-fi worldbuilding.
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Jan 13, 2014 09:20
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Writing a setting as encyclopedia entries would be an interesting idea, if you could pull it off. Some books that are written as In-Universe supplements are quite fun to read (If you're a Star Wars fan, the Essential Guides are what I'm suggesting). But knowing tropers, they'd find a way to gently caress that up too.
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Jan 13, 2014 09:22
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Arcsquad12 posted:Writing a setting as encyclopedia entries would be an interesting idea, if you could pull it off. There's a postmodern fiction book called Dictionary of the Khazars which does this. Also a supplement called the Spherewalker's Handbook for the long-defunct RPG Everway. Both are great.
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Jan 13, 2014 09:40
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There's also The Tough Guide to Fantasyland, which pre-dates TVT by the better part of a decade. Also it manages to be funny and relatively lacking in self-indulgence, so, y'know, bonus.
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Jan 13, 2014 09:44
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Arcsquad12 posted:Writing a setting as encyclopedia entries would be an interesting idea, if you could pull it off. Some books that are written as In-Universe supplements are quite fun to read (If you're a Star Wars fan, the Essential Guides are what I'm suggesting). But knowing tropers, they'd find a way to gently caress that up too. Miniature versions of two of the textbooks in Harry Potter were produced for a charity. I forget what the other one was, but I owned Quidditch Through the Ages, which was an almost Hitchhiker's Guide-esque history book on the ridiculous logic and events that produced the sport.
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Jan 13, 2014 09:44
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Cleretic posted:Miniature versions of two of the textbooks in Harry Potter were produced for a charity. I forget what the other one was, but I owned Quidditch Through the Ages, which was an almost Hitchhiker's Guide-esque history book on the ridiculous logic and events that produced the sport. Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them. It's apparently getting a film adaptation, which should be interesting. But yeah, little flavor books like that as the basis for a setting would be neat.
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Jan 13, 2014 09:52
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Arcsquad12 posted:Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them. It's apparently getting a film adaptation, which should be interesting. But yeah, little flavor books like that as the basis for a setting would be neat. Fantastic Beasts was pretty great. Had little notes in the margins and whatnot from Harry, Ron, and occasionally Hermione. Besides that the information itself was pretty interesting, really. It's an awesome little book.
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Jan 13, 2014 10:33
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Arcsquad12 posted:Writing a setting as encyclopedia entries would be an interesting idea, if you could pull it off. Some books that are written as In-Universe supplements are quite fun to read (If you're a Star Wars fan, the Essential Guides are what I'm suggesting). But knowing tropers, they'd find a way to gently caress that up too. I've only read a bit of it, but the Dune Encyclopedia springs to mind.
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Jan 13, 2014 11:23
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Zack Parsons also did that with the first part of "That Insidious Beast" (in the form of a TV guide from an alternate hyper religious imperialistic America) and also in the "CONEX: Convict Connections" series.
DoctorPresident fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jan 13, 2014 |
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Jan 13, 2014 18:36
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Yes, fictive documents are a thing in speculative fiction. I am sure TVtropes has a page on it.
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Jan 13, 2014 19:46
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ArchangeI posted:Yes, fictive documents are a thing in speculative fiction. I am sure TVtropes has a page on it. It does, yes. Didn't spot much that was outstandingly terrible in it, though.
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Jan 13, 2014 19:50
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hey! Did you know that there's another TVTropes spinoff focused on fetishes? Meet the Fetish Fuel Wiki. This is their "mascot", Fetish-Fan:  Let's see the toys section: trying too hard posted:Those plushies of Lovecraftian monsters often have tentacles.... what the Christ? posted:Bionicle figures in their first run. Gali was an early rule 34 for me, just because of her story (only female out of six superheroes, and the rarity of females out of the midgets inhabiting the island...) Anything will turn me on posted:As fun and innocent Mr. Bucket may have seemed as a child, it's kind of difficult not to notice the sexual innuendo as an adult. "The first one to get their balls into Mr. Bucket wins"...It just doesn't seem quite right. call the cops posted:Uh, hello? The hula-hoop anyone? It dates back to ancient Egypt! I'm telling you, anything that can teach a girl to do that with her hips is not just a childrens' toy.
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Jan 13, 2014 20:26
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DoctorPresident posted:As fun and innocent Mr. Bucket may have seemed as a child, it's kind of difficult not to notice the sexual innuendo as an adult. "The first one to get their balls into Mr. Bucket wins"...It just doesn't seem quite right. This is the kind of person who is tickled with scandalous perversion whenever any major sport played with a ball is mentioned.
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Jan 13, 2014 21:00
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DoctorPresident posted:Zack Parsons also did that with the first part of "That Insidious Beast" (in the form of a TV guide from an alternate hyper religious imperialistic America) and also in the "CONEX: Convict Connections" series. That Insidious Beast, of course, has its own tropes page.
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Jan 13, 2014 21:34
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Troper posted:Bionicle figures in their first run. Gali was an early rule 34 for me, just because of her story (only female out of six superheroes, and the rarity of females out of the midgets inhabiting the island...) For the record, this is what that troper found sexually attractive: 
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Jan 13, 2014 22:15
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Obnoxipus posted:For the record, this is what that troper found sexually attractive: Ah, but the troper said the first run:  I don't really get their logic. They were sexually attracted because the character was the lone female, but you can't even tell their gender apart if the story lines didn't tell you. sweeperbravo posted:This is the kind of person who is tickled with scandalous perversion whenever any major sport played with a ball is mentioned. So, a troper.
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Jan 13, 2014 22:48
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