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Ok, Juliette's arc in season two was pretty awful and the hate for her was justified, I think. But since the season finale, she has been totally awesome. Her trying to get her friend to open up was really awkward, but organically so. The kitchen fight made a ton of sense and she was badass. I loved Nick 's "I'm not the one you should be afraid of." There were two different moments when I thought "does (person) not know who they are?" I'm a little bummed that the siblings were both "just" wesen, but it was interesting to look at them being racist against humans instead of the other way around. Excited for more Monroe/Rosalee domestics next week.
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Jan 11, 2014 07:19
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 01:56 |
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Yeah, Nick knows you do not mess with Juliette, especially in her own home. Oh god yes, so much potential for adorable awkwardness! Do you think they'll get the whole, 'soooo I'm dating a Blutbad!' out of the way right off the bat or keep it secret a while?
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Jan 11, 2014 07:30
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Accretionist posted:I loved that they didn't go with normal fight choreography for Juliette. Whether intended or not, it felt like good characterization. I can just imagine her in a Women's Self Defense class taking notes about how when confronted by a larger opponent, attack the sensitive areas: eyes, ears, throat and groin and jotting down useful phrases such as, "Get out of my house!. I floved that too, especially when I recognized that's what it was. A friend of mine who teaches women's self defense calls it "gently caress you up Fu."
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Jan 11, 2014 08:10
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johntfs posted:I floved that too, especially when I recognized that's what it was. A friend of mine who teaches women's self defense calls it "gently caress you up Fu." Yep. It's dirty fightin' since we usually don't have any kind of size or strength advantage.
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Jan 11, 2014 09:31
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Accretionist posted:I loved that they didn't go with normal fight choreography for Juliette. Whether intended or not, it felt like good characterization. I can just imagine her in a Women's Self Defense class taking notes about how when confronted by a larger opponent, attack the sensitive areas: eyes, ears, throat and groin and jotting down useful phrases such as, "Get out of my house!. Exactly what I was thinking while watching. She didn't suddenly become a ninja badass, she fought him off with defense class moves and it was great. Even if the previews were like "you won't guess who is fighting" over footage of her jumping on the guy's back. Yeah, I think I can guess now. Still, I thought it was great. But the guy one punched Nick - or at least sucker punched him. I thought that was a little weak, but it let Juliet shine so it's all good.
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Jan 11, 2014 10:01
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Another really interesting thing that I really want them to explain is how they all know Nick is a Grimm. The guy transformed in front of Juliette and she just hit him with a pan. Nick walks in and "oh poo poo don't kill me."
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Jan 11, 2014 17:53
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Some Numbers posted:Nick walks in and "oh poo poo don't kill me."
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Jan 11, 2014 20:14
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Some Numbers posted:Another really interesting thing that I really want them to explain is how they all know Nick is a Grimm. The guy transformed in front of Juliette and she just hit him with a pan. Nick walks in and "oh poo poo don't kill me." I was wondering this too. At the hospital the girlfriend wesen voged (the kind only he can see) and Nick didn't react AT ALL not even a blink, but somehow she knew immediately that he was a Grimm.
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Jan 11, 2014 22:29
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A little time on IMDB showed me that David G and Bitsie did a film called "Caroline and Jackie" in 2012 where they were also in a relationship. Also, I learned that Bitsie starred in a mockumentary about the life of R2-D2 in 2001. I have to find that thing somewhere. Here it is: http://starwars.com/watch/beneath_the_dome_pt3.html Bitsie shows up about 4 minutes into it. The first two parts are here: http://starwars.com/watch/beneath_the_dome_pt1.html and here http://starwars.com/watch/beneath_the_dome_pt2.html
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Jan 12, 2014 00:36
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hollylolly posted:I was wondering this too. At the hospital the girlfriend wesen voged (the kind only he can see) and Nick didn't react AT ALL not even a blink, but somehow she knew immediately that he was a Grimm. It was discussed earlier and the leading theory is that they just know when they are seen somehow.
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Jan 12, 2014 01:03
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Arrgytehpirate posted:It was discussed earlier and the leading theory is that they just know when they are seen somehow. Which makes sense when it's unconscious, but in the kitchen, the guy full-on transformed to intimidate Juliette and still knew instantly that Nick was a Grimm.
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Jan 12, 2014 01:41
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Some Numbers posted:Which makes sense when it's unconscious, but in the kitchen, the guy full-on transformed to intimidate Juliette and still knew instantly that Nick was a Grimm. Right, exactly. I previously thought it was a sort of micro-expression thing, where Nick's subtle reactions (or lack thereof) to unintended wesen stuff were a hint. Now, I'm hoping wesen just perceive Grimms as totally horrifying, and we just haven't been shown what it looks like to them.
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Jan 12, 2014 04:57
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Xealot posted:Right, exactly. I previously thought it was a sort of micro-expression thing, where Nick's subtle reactions (or lack thereof) to unintended wesen stuff were a hint. Now, I'm hoping wesen just perceive Grimms as totally horrifying, and we just haven't been shown what it looks like to them. To me you'd think that the dude would've assumed that Juliette was the Grimm, since she shrugged off his Voge and was kicking the hell out of him. Also, it doesn't seem like it's a natural perception thing or else Juliette wouldn't have to tell Alicia that Nick was a Grimm. Hell, Juliette was the one who brought up Alicia being Wesen. Again the most logical conclusion to Alicia should have been that Juliette was a Grimm.
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Jan 12, 2014 05:50
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I guess from what we've seen in the show then if you are wessen and you are emotionally or physically voged (or whatever the word is) and you look at a Grimm you somehow can tell immediately. Juliet's friend voged in front of Nick, but she wasn't looking at him so she didn't notice. Obviously Juliet did not set off the "oh poo poo a Grimm!" alarms. Maybe his eyes glow or turn red or something when he sees them. 
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Jan 12, 2014 05:57
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I think the writers could never agree on how Grimm identification worked so there's no consistent protocol. Edit: hollylolly posted:Maybe his eyes glow or turn red or something when he sees them. Ooh, an effect on the eyes would be a cool way to do it. If the more worked up the Wesen or Grimm is, the more the eyes flare up, then you've got some basis for retconning all the prior inconsistencies. Accretionist fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Jan 12, 2014 |
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Jan 12, 2014 05:58
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johntfs posted:To me you'd think that the dude would've assumed that Juliette was the Grimm, since she shrugged off his Voge and was kicking the hell out of him. Also, it doesn't seem like it's a natural perception thing or else Juliette wouldn't have to tell Alicia that Nick was a Grimm. Hell, Juliette was the one who brought up Alicia being Wesen. Again the most logical conclusion to Alicia should have been that Juliette was a Grimm. They've been really consistent; the wesen woge, they look Nick in the face while woged and then they know he's a Grimm. I can't think of a time where a wesen knew what Nick was without woging.
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Jan 12, 2014 06:27
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Some Numbers posted:They've been really consistent; the wesen woge, they look Nick in the face while woged and then they know he's a Grimm. I can't think of a time where a wesen knew what Nick was without woging. What makes it inconsistent is how often a woged wesen hasn't IDed Nick and the varying pass/fail conditions.
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Jan 12, 2014 06:29
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Has that happened? My memory of seasons 1 and 2 isn't encyclopedic.
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Jan 12, 2014 06:31
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All I could think of when Juliette kneed the dude in the junk was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJl3ZAg6mj0
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Jan 12, 2014 06:33
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johntfs posted:Again the most logical conclusion to Alicia should have been that Juliette was a Grimm. I am in complete agreement that there has been no way this show has been consistent with how they know who is a Grimm. Heck, the Roman alligator told Nick about how he was told scare stories of Grimms, and now that he is in the presence of one, they don't look that scary. That tells me he had never seen one before, yet knew instantly? They only way to really sum it up is that when wogeing (either Grimm noticeable level, or humans notice) they are all able to sense a Grimm when they are looking at them. If they just said that, without explaining how, that would be fine. Otherwise, it really is hard to make sense of it. I thought the editing, acting, and so on of the fight scene was good, because only after abusive-boyfriend woged, and Juliette didn't shrug, did Angela's character seem to realize "oh poo poo, she was telling the truth." Which, yes, brings me to what you pointed out. She should think "she is a Grimm!" (Although, to be pedantic, she identified herself by the german term--whether Angela actually knew that or not, who knows?--as not a grimm.) I am tiring a bit of so so many people turning out to be wesen. Wesen of the week, the team works to find out about them, they bring down that wesen, maybe find some others, link the story to other ones we have seen--or will see--and so on. I feel like Hank, Juliette, and Wu are the only drat humans left. I do like that they showed how the Jaguar therapist lady is "Wesenist" and I don't think it is against humans, but she is only ever going to be with her kind. Which seems to be the norm, and our main characters really are that abnormal. It is nice to be reminded of that.
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Jan 12, 2014 06:38
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The show is pretty blatantly racist - the wesen wanting to stick with her own kind is just part of it. "Oh this person I knew forever and trust is a wesen? She must be some sort of horrible monster then oh well  "
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Jan 12, 2014 06:55
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Delta-Wye posted:The show is pretty blatantly racist - the wesen wanting to stick with her own kind is just part of it. "Oh this person I knew forever and trust is a wesen? She must be some sort of horrible monster then oh well I am going to defend the writers of the character and Juliette in that her reaction should be pretty consistent with what she knows. She was in a coma for all the drama, came out of it, and now all her friends are wessen, and will woge to show her. And her husband is a Grimm. Anything that happened before that, probably seems foreign. Every other wesen, Bud, notably, freaked out and showed themselves. It was a big character development for her to even loving get a clue, let alone accept it and then fight zombie whatevers with wesen. I am sure, if this even was a "real thing" we would all act the same. Like, I've seen about 7 different wesen now, including a Fuschbau, and I don't care (yea, that seems like such a better way of stating it.) and I think it would have been different. But, yea. I feel it needs to be, though. Otherwise I have no idea why royals control wesen, why they know-toe to them, yet have reapers, yet still have grimms, and is it just money? What about the coins? Those were priceless, so it isn't a money thing. I am waiting for "royal wesen" to woge and be some purple robed royal throned badass that can summon all forms of wessen at will. Otherwise, why? Why? Do the royals run poo poo? Grimms are better than them. Reapers have strengths beyond them. And the Wessen they reign in could take them. I focus too much on the shows inconsistencies, because I like it a lot, but it could get a bit tidier. Hire some comic book writers (not just license it) or some good established writers.
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Jan 12, 2014 07:46
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Accretionist posted:Ooh, an effect on the eyes would be a cool way to do it. If the more worked up the Wesen or Grimm is, the more the eyes flare up, then you've got some basis for retconning all the prior inconsistencies.
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Jan 12, 2014 07:58
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I didn't see anyone else mention it, but it really bugged me that Juliette immediately just said "And Nick's a Grimm!" with this happy chirp as if she expected that would help. When she'd been told it wouldn't and don't do that. I put on my grumpy pants while I watched her impressive self defense offensive.
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Jan 12, 2014 08:58
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I rewatched part of season one tonight. I forgot how subtle and solid the opening was. Why did they change it?
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Jan 12, 2014 09:01
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devoir posted:I didn't see anyone else mention it, but it really bugged me that Juliette immediately just said "And Nick's a Grimm!" with this happy chirp as if she expected that would help. When she'd been told it wouldn't and don't do that. I put on my grumpy pants while I watched her impressive self defense offensive. Juliette only knows Nick and he's never really told her much about other Grimms, so she thinks Grimms are basically cops for wesen when they're actually executioners; if you're a wesen and a Grimm shows up at your door he's been sent to kill you. Even reading the diaries won't tell her otherwise, because the diaries only include wesen who are overtly aggressive or require special means to kill. Also any given Grimm could be an Endezeichen, exterminating any wesen he finds. Alicia was absolutely right when she said Juliette didn't know what she was talking about.
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Jan 12, 2014 12:23
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devoir posted:I didn't see anyone else mention it, but it really bugged me that Juliette immediately just said "And Nick's a Grimm!" with this happy chirp as if she expected that would help. When she'd been told it wouldn't and don't do that. I put on my grumpy pants while I watched her impressive self defense offensive. I was fine with it. She made a mistake, but it was a normal person mistake (unlike the kid at the beginning drawing the attention of the thugs beating up the gang guy by saying "Hey!") Juliette believed that her specific experience with Alicia trumped Nick's general experience with Wesen. It was foolish but completely understandable, especially in the context. Juliette wasn't blurting out Nick's Grimmness for the hell out of it. That was her trump card to win the argument about whether or not Alicia was Wesen, like "Look, Nick's a Grimm. He saw you. We really do know and we're completely okay with it." Except that Alicia took it more like "Look, we know you're a Jew. Nick's with the SS. Just calm down so we can get you a shower at a place where Work Makes Free."
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Jan 12, 2014 14:42
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Grimm is doing the Arrow trick now of 'Set up then pay off loving immediately' with the email and Alicia and Vienna. The writers learned from the amnesia plotline.
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Jan 12, 2014 16:25
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Jedit posted:Even reading the diaries won't tell her otherwise, because the diaries only include wesen who are overtly aggressive or require special means to kill. The turtle people stand out as prime example of why this untrue. I think it was like "they were harmless and easily killed" was the entry. I can't point out other salient examples, but I believe there have been plenty of diary entries where it had nothing to do with aggression and simply carrying out the execution. Or the first time encountering a species, their go-to option is to kill it and study it. Yes, it was absurd that Juliette said Nick was a Grimm as if that would do anything but further the problem, but she, in theory, could have gotten a better grasp on a Grimm from reading the books.
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Jan 12, 2014 16:30
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JD Bucks 7 posted:I am waiting for "royal wesen" to woge and be some purple robed royal throned badass that can summon all forms of wessen at will. Otherwise, why? Why? Do the royals run poo poo? Grimms are better than them. Reapers have strengths beyond them. And the Wessen they reign in could take them. I would guess probably the same way real-life royalty stay in power. It's not like the queen of england can hold her position through winning an arm-wrestling match with the queen's guard or something. johntfs posted:Except that Alicia took it more like "Look, we know you're a Jew. Nick's with the SS. Just calm down so we can get you a shower at a place where Work Makes Free." This is my take - if you replace wesen with any other ethnicity/race/cultural heritage it sounds pretty terrible. Nick kills
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Jan 12, 2014 20:01
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Aren't the royal families human?
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Jan 12, 2014 20:19
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Accretionist posted:Aren't the royal families human? That's been the main theme I've picked up, but there is supposedly something special about their blood at the very least.
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Jan 12, 2014 20:52
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Delta-Wye posted:
True, and yet there are differences and false equivalencies, kind of like with mutants in the X-men comics/movies. Jewish people can't burn you alive by breathing fire on you. Black people can't rip your throat out with jaguar teeth. When Nick kills people, including humans (which he did in this episode), he does so in immediate defense of himself or other people. The bar bit was different. He killed a person in a fight that he started (while drugged). If I sell beer to somebody who proceeds to get super drunk and die in a car accident and I learn that I sold the fatal beer, I would be upset by that. Plus, I don't think Nick was simply upset by killing that guy. There was a lot of other stuff going on there. Becoming a victim. Potentially hurting his friends and innocent people. Loss of control and choice in his actions. The killing was more the icing on the cake. The nasty icing on a cake made of awful.
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Jan 12, 2014 21:15
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devoir posted:I didn't see anyone else mention it, but it really bugged me that Juliette immediately just said "And Nick's a Grimm!" with this happy chirp as if she expected that would help. When she'd been told it wouldn't and don't do that. I put on my grumpy pants while I watched her impressive self defense offensive. JD Bucks 7 posted:Yes, it was absurd that Juliette said Nick was a Grimm as if that would do anything but further the problem, but she, in theory, could have gotten a better grasp on a Grimm from reading the books. It really wasn't that absurd. This is someone Juliette has bee friends with for decades, someone who has known Nick as long as Juliette has been with him. They know everything about each other, side from the Wessen thing. It's not crazy for her to think she could talk to her friend in a different manner than she would someone else. Was it ill-advised? Sure, but not stupid or crazy. I'd want to trust my relationship with my best friend over everything else too. I'm also not understanding why some of you think the friend would think Juliette was the Grimm? The husband woged on purpose to scare her, that's why she could see him. The friend would recognize that. Also, Juliette had already told her she was a whatever that German word is that says humans are in the know. I liked this episode and really enjoyed Juliette kicking rear end. Her 'I'm not impressed' was bad rear end.
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Jan 12, 2014 21:30
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Okay, but I am 99% certain that she was told by Nick not to say anything about him being a Grimm. Which she agreed to, and I don't remember it being reluctantly.
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Jan 12, 2014 22:02
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devoir posted:Okay, but I am 99% certain that she was told by Nick not to say anything about him being a Grimm. Which she agreed to, and I don't remember it being reluctantly. She went from "I'm not going to say anything else..." to blurting out everything in the span of about 15 seconds towards the end. Basically, the boyfriend saved the day as she was able to remove her foot from her mouth and firmly insert it far up his rear end.
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Jan 12, 2014 23:27
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devoir posted:Okay, but I am 99% certain that she was told by Nick not to say anything about him being a Grimm. Which she agreed to, and I don't remember it being reluctantly. I know he's made it quite clear to her that his ancestors would likely be killing wesen willy-nilly and that's why many wesen are afraid of him. Have we had any episodes where the bad guy was a human and the victim was a wesen? Like, the mice people are so timid, it would probably be pretty easy for a human to abuse them. And I mean, the bad guy is a human who knows absolutely nothing about wesen. Bored fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jan 13, 2014 |
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Jan 13, 2014 00:55
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Bored posted:I know he's made it quite clear to her that his ancestors would likely be killing wesen willy-nilly and that's why many wesen are afraid of him. This is a great set-up, but with a few exceptions, there's no post-mortum evidence that people are wesen, so it's harder to do. Unless it's not a murder, in which case the question is why is a homicide detective on the case?
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Jan 13, 2014 01:47
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Some Numbers posted:This is a great set-up, but with a few exceptions, there's no post-mortum evidence that people are wesen, so it's harder to do. Family of the deceased would be wesen.
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Jan 13, 2014 01:58
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I wonder if grief could trigger woging the way fear/anger can? You think it's just any excess of emotion?
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Jan 13, 2014 02:32
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