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Meteor's stuff was a much better watch than the stuff that came before where you had to spend 12 weeks forming the club after it had become obvious how it would all turn out by, oh, week five or so. The people who hated Meteor seemed to hate anything that wasn't "friendship, buddies, FRIENDSHIP." He definitely had the plot focus in on him for awhile but that is something all post-Den-O shows did.
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Jan 14, 2014 03:28
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The whole "I have to hide my secret identity" was the worst of the worst in second rider plots.
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Jan 14, 2014 03:30
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Rei_ posted:In Double A-Z, Eternal blows up a helicopter with that american guy in it who says KAMEN RIDER in a really matter-of-factly voice. Please, it's COMMON RIDER
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Jan 14, 2014 03:30
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Please, it's COMMON RIDER https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-6vCUMmnuo ?
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Jan 14, 2014 03:47
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HKR posted:The whole "I have to hide my secret identity" was the worst of the worst in second rider plots. It was a lot better than whatever Beast's deal was. Funny how the show got progressively worse following W.
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Jan 14, 2014 04:02
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drrockso20 posted:When it comes to OOO's I'm of the opinion that you should watch up till Shauta(the all blue form) debuts and then you can safely skip to the last two episodes, because the only things you need to know that happen between those points is; Eiji gets a purple dinosaur form that breaks his other medals and is turning him into a Greeed and Dr Maki has some of the purple medals and has become a Greeed(and that a pair of jackass pterodactyl Yummies pointlessly grim-derped the show by killing a bunch of people), that Ankh had his primary medal cracked, which is slowly killing him, and that there are two Birth suits now I'm not really sure exactly how light-hearted a show that had a child death as close to on-screen as you get in a kid's program, and a kid burning his sister alive was before that episode.
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Jan 14, 2014 04:06
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Justin_Brett posted:I'm not really sure exactly how light-hearted a show that had a child death as close to on-screen as you get in a kid's program, and a kid burning his sister alive was before that episode. To be fair-OOOs was NOT meant to be super light hearted to begin with. It was going to be pretty serious and tragic and you can definitely see shades of that early on, especially with the creepy opening with CakeBoss. But then, well, Real Life happened and they decided that maybe kids could use some fun and not horrible depressing character deaths.
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Jan 14, 2014 04:10
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Cliff Racer posted:It was a lot better than whatever Beast's deal was. Funny how the show got progressively worse following W. Every Rider show has problems, Wizard was just kind of a nice reminder that this isn't some loving golden age of Kamen Rider and you should still be coming into these shows ready to appreciate things despite their problems but also remember that you're not contract-bound to like every season. Considering Rider's long history, Double, OOOs and Fourze are really fun shows. I'm always somewhat baffled by people who hold these shows to this ridiculous standard that I don't think it ever truly met.
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Jan 14, 2014 04:16
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Oh I didn't meant hey were all terrible. W was great, OOO was a lot of fun, Fourze was mediocre at best and then there was Wizard. It definitely ran the new format into the ground pretty quickly considering that way back when we'd still be on what, V3's second year?
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Jan 14, 2014 04:28
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Cliff Racer posted:Oh I didn't meant hey were all terrible. W was great, OOO was a lot of fun, Fourze was mediocre at best and then there was Wizard. It definitely ran the new format into the ground pretty quickly considering that way back when we'd still be on what, V3's second year? V3's second year?
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Jan 14, 2014 04:30
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44 is out. http://over-ti.me/releases/voltasaur-team-kyoryuger-44/
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Jan 14, 2014 04:46
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I legit have no idea how they're going to win this. Like, bravery, yeah, but I mean the specifics. I also have no idea how there are four episodes left. SpiderHyphenMan fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jan 14, 2014 |
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Jan 14, 2014 05:24
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Cliff Racer posted:Meteor's stuff was a much better watch than the stuff that came before where you had to spend 12 weeks forming the club after it had become obvious how it would all turn out by, oh, week five or so. The people who hated Meteor seemed to hate anything that wasn't "friendship, buddies, FRIENDSHIP." He definitely had the plot focus in on him for awhile but that is something all post-Den-O shows did. To me the big problem with Meteor isn't that he is rejecting friendship, it is that he does so in a "I'm being secret about it" way. Accel, in comparison, was almost hilariously open about his problems and that allowed the main cast to react to it, talk to him, make arguments about it and in general respond to the plot as it is going on. Meteor, in comparison, is just play-acting and having little aside-thoughts most of the time so there's no real way for the other cast members to do anything about it because they don't know what the gently caress Ryusei's deal is. It isn't fun to watch because the rest of the cast barely gets to do anything except play along with Ryusei's fake persona.
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Jan 14, 2014 05:44
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Burkion posted:V3's second year? Five years after the original Kamen Rider debuted.
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Jan 14, 2014 06:25
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Cliff Racer posted:Five years after the original Kamen Rider debuted. ...Kamen Rider Amazon and/or Stronger? I'm sorry if I'm missing a joke here, I'm honestly a bit confused. V3 only had one year on TV unlike the original which had three, and Amazon was the one airing in 1975 to begin with, Stronger taking up after and finishing in that year.
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Jan 14, 2014 06:38
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If we're still talking about Fourze can we talk about how COSMIC MIND is the best? 
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Jan 14, 2014 06:48
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I unashamedly really loved Fourze, like I was even on a podcast to gush about it, and even then I'd admit that Meteor's whole thing went on a bit too long.
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Jan 14, 2014 07:07
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Man people are way down on wizard. I thought it was alright, definitely not the best but I would say it was just as good as fourze. Haruto was an ok rider about as good as Eiji. Beast was probably the best secondary rider that I've seen in a rough tie with birth and I like the beast suit more so he wins. The only cast member I didn't like was shunpei and the enemies were ok I liked phoenix and gremlin, Medusa was the worst of the three. The two episode format was definitely unnecessary but Wizard rider kicked a dude into the sun. Also the wizard driver is the best belt, period.
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Jan 14, 2014 07:31
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Apollove posted:If we're still talking about Fourze can we talk about how COSMIC MIND is the best? Cosmis Mind was such a great insert theme it blows my mind. It gets you so pumped for the big blue spaceman about to beat up stardust monsters. Just listen to it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9dStZP-rFE I want a thread where we just gush about amazing tokusatsu music because holy poo poo I have an iPod filled with it. I've been addicted to Kiva's entire soundtrack ever since I first heard Innocent Trap. Say what you want about that show but holy lord it did music right. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kWI5Rjp3eA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOGFaH3W_qY Scratchman Apoo fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Jan 14, 2014 |
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Jan 14, 2014 07:33
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Elfgames posted:Man people are way down on wizard. I thought it was alright, definitely not the best but I would say it was just as good as fourze. Haruto was an ok rider about as good as Eiji. Beast was probably the best secondary rider that I've seen in a rough tie with birth and I like the beast suit more so he wins. The only cast member I didn't like was shunpei and the enemies were ok I liked phoenix and gremlin, Medusa was the worst of the three. The two episode format was definitely unnecessary but Wizard rider kicked a dude into the sun. Also the wizard driver is the best belt, period. Haruto was boring, Koyomi was boring, Rinko didn't live up to her potential. Beast was cool. Wizard Driver is a weird way to spell Double Driver.
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Jan 14, 2014 07:49
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Say what you want about Haruto or the others but i will fight you over belt superiority.
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Jan 14, 2014 07:51
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Elfgames posted:Say what you want about Haruto or the others but i will fight you over belt superiority. Best belt is G's belt. 
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Jan 14, 2014 07:52
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I legit have no idea how they're going to win this. My personal crazy-rear end theory involves betrayals by people who have been replaced along with replacements for the Spirits. That seems like it'd be a LOT to cram into four episodes, though.
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Jan 14, 2014 07:56
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Elfgames posted:Also the wizard driver is the best belt, period. Best belt does indeed appear in Wizard, but it's not the title Driver. 
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Jan 14, 2014 09:15
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Elfgames posted:Man people are way down on wizard. I thought it was alright, definitely not the best but I would say it was just as good as fourze. Haruto was an ok rider about as good as Eiji. Beast was probably the best secondary rider that I've seen in a rough tie with birth and I like the beast suit more so he wins. The only cast member I didn't like was shunpei and the enemies were ok I liked phoenix and gremlin, Medusa was the worst of the three. The two episode format was definitely unnecessary but Wizard rider kicked a dude into the sun. Also the wizard driver is the best belt, period. The problem with Wizard was that the bad guys were horribly incompetent and never seemed like much of a threat. Haruto was able to save every person who was driven to despair, and in the odd chance he couldn't, well they got better by themselves. The one exception was that guy with the myna bird who fell into despair at the end of the episode but whoops, turns out that was just a big joke guys! Seriously gently caress Wizard for that alone, the one time it looks like poo poo's going to get interesting it turns out we were all just supposed to laugh and forget it happened. Also Haruto is really dull and never really seemed like an actual person. You could say the same about some of the Showa Riders I guess, that they're so focused on being a hero of justice that they don't have much else to their personality, but at least they had passion in it. Haruto just seemed really bored most of the time.
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Jan 14, 2014 16:50
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Twelve by Pies posted:Seriously gently caress Wizard for that alone, the one time it looks like poo poo's going to get interesting it turns out we were all just supposed to laugh and forget it happened. Also Haruto is really dull and never really seemed like an actual person. You could say the same about some of the Showa Riders I guess, that they're so focused on being a hero of justice that they don't have much else to their personality, but at least they had passion in it. Haruto just seemed really bored most of the time. Isn't it one of the things that come up, especially in the last two episodes, that Haruto questions how effective he is and whether he can the "last hope" that is needed. I get the sense that they were trying to show some inner conflict within Haruto, which suggests that his power is just as likely to consume him and turn him into a Phantom. It took Decade to beat some sense into him his role as a Kamen Rider. Not saying it's good, and it could be written much better, but I think that is what they were going for.
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Jan 14, 2014 16:59
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Twelve by Pies posted:Also Haruto is really dull and never really seemed like an actual person. You could say the same about some of the Showa Riders I guess, that they're so focused on being a hero of justice that they don't have much else to their personality, but at least they had passion in it. Haruto just seemed really bored most of the time. While they may never seem like 'actual' people, if only because that's pretty hard to do in a toku and also 70s writing, the original Riders were written WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than Haruto. Kamen Rider Ichigo, Hongo, was a quiet, serious man, who genuinely hated what was done to him and ashamed of the fact that he was no longer human. Whenever he transformed, however, he'd always take time to banter with the villains, mock them. Kamen Rider Niigo, Ichimonji, was the exact opposite. He was a loud, crafty man who often acted behind the scenes and did not seem to be bothered as much about what he was. He had a much larger personality in general, which was contrasted when he transformed because he would suddenly get far more serious and quiet, the danger at its highest. Usually. Kamen Rider V3, Shiro, started as a man hell bent for revenge, but quickly learned that vengeance is not the correct path. He had a very aggressive, very violent side to him even before becoming a Rider, which ultimately got his family killed. He never quite mellowed out, but he did forsake his humanity in favor of fighting the evils of Destron, and eventually, all of humanity's ills. Rider-Man is another contrast, which makes sense given he was the secondary Rider for V3. He showed up in the late game and showed how far V3 had come as a character, as a similarly revenge obsessed man, but one who believed that Destron was ultimately a force for good and it was only its current leader holding it back. He continued down this path to the point of no return, even costing a chance to nab the Great Leader early, and ended up sacrificing himself when he realized the error of his ways to save Japan. And I could keep going. Amazon is one of the most dynamic characters of them all with how he gets to grow and develop. What I'm saying is, gently caress Wizard.
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Jan 14, 2014 17:12
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I don't find Haruto any duller than Eiji personally, he's not the best but he had bits and peices of personality that made me like him well enough even if he was too serious. I don't have too big of a problem with the badguys being ineffective because: A.) that was wiseman's plan. B.)OOO and Fourze's badguys were just as useless.
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Jan 14, 2014 17:39
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The Greeds being 'useless' was done in a far more interesting way though, it involved them manipulating and backstabbing each other when they would've likely been far more effective if they had worked together. They were useless because they were actually active and did poo poo to move the plot along, Wiseman just kinda sat on his rear end until enough wizards popped up for his grand plan, which doesn't really make for great on-screen moments.
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Jan 14, 2014 17:46
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Elfgames posted:B.)OOO and Fourze's badguys were just as useless. At least the Greeed and Horoscopes managed to succeed at any venture that wasn't revealed within the last five episodes of the show. You had the constant Medal tug-of-war in OOO, and Fourze's villains at least kept finding new members of the Horoscopes in contrast to the Phantoms which had all been there since the first Sabbat that also spawned Haruto's Wizard ability. Until the big reveal, Wizard's villains have literally zero success at any point in the show. It got to the point where I was rooting for them just so maybe they could do something of note that wasn't "Get murdered by Haruto and Kousuke at the end of the arc." Shaezerus fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Jan 14, 2014 |
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Jan 14, 2014 18:30
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Shaezerus posted:At least the Greeed and Horoscopes managed to succeed at any venture that wasn't revealed within the last five episodes of the show. You had the constant Medal tug-of-war in OOO, and Fourze's villains at least kept finding new members of the Horoscopes in contrast to the Phantoms which had all been there since the first Sabbat that also spawned Haruto's Wizard ability. Plus I mean, even as the Horoscopes were being defeated the villains plans were being advanced. He just needed the switches. The cult of supporters was a bonus if anything.
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Jan 14, 2014 19:14
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Plus I mean, even as the Horoscopes were being defeated the villains plans were being advanced. He just needed the switches. The cult of supporters was a bonus if anything. The White Wizard's plans are pretty similar to the Horoscopes' when boiled down, effectively "I only need these specific things, everything else in the plan is expendable," but if it had been revealed earlier in the show we probably wouldn't have this problem. Fourze tells you pretty early on what Gamou wants, so it feels like the villains are making some form of progress even though Gentaro is whipping Zodiarts left and right. With Wizard, all you get is the looming buildup of an incredibly obvious plot twist that doesn't happen until the tail end of the show, making that 40some episodes feel completely wasted. Now that I think about it, I should probably go through Wizard and watch only the "relevant" episodes (upgrades and new supporting-cast only) to see how it turns out. So much of the show is filler, even in some cases episodes where there is direct character exploration (like the arc focusing on Gremlin's human life), maybe condensing it and trimming those ten or twenty episodes would improve the overall experience.
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Jan 14, 2014 19:39
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Burkion posted:To be fair-OOOs was NOT meant to be super light hearted to begin with. It was going to be pretty serious and tragic and you can definitely see shades of that early on, especially with the creepy opening with CakeBoss. Well, even after that we still had some pretty hosed up stuff (the pterodactyls, as he said, and Doctor Maki didn't get any less creepy. Plus pretty much everything about PutoTyRa).
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Jan 14, 2014 20:29
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Justin_Brett posted:Well, even after that we still had some pretty hosed up stuff (the pterodactyls, as he said, and Doctor Maki didn't get any less creepy. Plus pretty much everything about PutoTyRa). Pretty much, although the Pterodactyl Yummies were the only part that actively bugged me(it doesn't help that they have the worst suit designs in OOO's)
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Jan 14, 2014 20:53
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Box of Bunnies posted:Best belt does indeed appear in Wizard, but it's not the title Driver. Top 5 Belt Rankings, with Correct Opinions: 1. OOODriver 2. DecaDriver 3. Faiz Belt 4. Fourze Driver 5. DoubleDriver Decade and Faiz can fight over who has the better belt, and Fourze and Double can fight over who comes behind them, but OOO is king of the mountain. Monathin fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jan 14, 2014 |
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Jan 14, 2014 21:38
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Monathin posted:Decade and Faiz can fight over who has the better belt, and Fourze and Double can fight over who comes behind them, but OOO is king of the mountain. I absolutely despised the OOO Driver and its crazy-rear end singing when I first caught wind of it, but it won me over after the first TAAAAAAAAJAAAAAAAAAAAADORUUUUUUUUUU.
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Jan 14, 2014 21:56
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I guess we're only counting main Rider drivers in this, otherwise you'd all be listing the Birth Driver, right?
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Jan 14, 2014 22:30
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Dexie posted:I guess we're only counting main Rider drivers in this, otherwise you'd all be listing the Birth Driver, right? Meteor Driver. So disco.  
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Jan 14, 2014 22:53
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Monathin posted:Top 5 Belt Rankings, with Correct Opinions: Fourze's belt is terrible, ugly and clunky as hell and i can't understand half the poo poo it says. wizard's says please and thank you. Double driver is good looking but it's pretty bland and the memories already say their own names without it.
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Jan 14, 2014 22:54
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Burkion posted:While they may never seem like 'actual' people, if only because that's pretty hard to do in a toku and also 70s writing, the original Riders were written WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than Haruto. Oh I agree, I wasn't bashing Showa Riders, I think they're awesome. I was just saying even if someone wanted to say that Showa Riders had "very little character development" that at the very least, those characters had a lot more emotion and drive than Haruto did for practically the entire series. Dante Logos posted:Isn't it one of the things that come up, especially in the last two episodes, that Haruto questions how effective he is and whether he can the "last hope" that is needed. I get the sense that they were trying to show some inner conflict within Haruto, which suggests that his power is just as likely to consume him and turn him into a Phantom. It took Decade to beat some sense into him his role as a Kamen Rider. I think they mention near the start of the series when he gets the first upgrade I believe, the Dragon shows up and says something to that effect, but nothing is ever really done with it at all. It sort of looks like they might be doing something like that in the Gaim/Wizard movie, there's a scene of Haruto on the ground with cracks all over him in the preview scenes during the opening of the most recent Gaim episode. As far as the part about Haruto worrying how effective he is and if he can become the "last hope," that might have worked better if Haruto hadn't been supremely effective in stopping the villains during the series and the only times he failed ending up not mattering at all because the victim saved themselves. Monathin posted:1. OOODriver Swap Double and Fourze and then replace Fourze with Den-O and then I'm good. What can I say, I'm a sucker for belts with music.
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Jan 14, 2014 22:58
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