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  • Locked thread
TheresNoThyme
Nov 23, 2012

TheDemon posted:

This is stupid. Firstly, the income penalty is still pretty big and income is the most important number. Secondly, the severe heat or cold penalties absolutely kill spellcasting in your nation unless you have resistance. Lanka for example, severe heat butchers any attempt at thunder strike spam. Don't do it, it isn't worth it unless you resist your temp scale. Nations like Kailasa, Helheim, Lanka do not.

One thing I would point out is that, with the frequent occurrence of thrones that give +/- to heat scales, taking 3 instead of preferred-2 has an additional benefit since it allows you to claim more thrones without breaking your scales. In the case of heat 3, -1 will take you to your preferred temp, while +1 will not increase you beyond 3 (and you got to use your pretender points for something else).

Certainly not a deciding factor, but it's worked out for me surprisingly frequently.

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amuayse
Jul 20, 2013

by exmarx
Well if you have the paths for it a Bane (D2, 7 gems) with a Frost Brand (W1, 5 gems) and a Robe of Shadows (S2, 10 gems) is quite decent and only require Conj3 and Construction 4.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Microcline posted:

It's Dom 3, but as far as I know not much has changed (from a quick glance Dwarf Hammers are still great but no longer game-deciding, luck isn't useful on SCs/thugs anymore, and it's a lot harder to get elemental resistances so you generally need to figure out what your enemy likes to use and stack against it).

http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Gearing_Thugs_and_SC%27s

Follow up. I'm *not* super experienced, but here's what thugging comes down to as far as I understand it.

There's a lot of ways for a 'hit' to fail on someone in Dominions. You need to make sure that you minimize that. Awe and fear are two ways--they make someone reluctant to hit at all. Immobilize prevents new people from sweeping in around you to try to hit you. There's stuff that absorbs hits, but generally those suck. Luck I think is one of the type that scale to large numbers of enemies.

Then there's managing your staying power. Fatigue is the enemy. If you picked stuff to protect you that tires you, then the thug is worthless, basically. If you have some spell that's part of your thug's repertoire, and they use it until they pass out, that's pointless too. You're looking for things that bump your stamina, or let you ignore it. I think this is why Banes are so popular--they're undead, and don't get tired.

Finally there's how they're going to do damage. However you choose to arm them, if they can't handle large groups then they're not really doing their jobs. You're looking for retaliation type stuff--where if they get hit, they hit back, area weapons, and spell like effects that poo poo on anyone nearby (e.g. poison or something).

You can specialize a thug towards attacking SCs or sieging, too, but basically you want these guys to stand in the place of an army, and they have to do what an army does--take hits, do a lot of hits, and stay in the battle as long as possible.

The quintessential thug, then, seems to be the Bane with vine shield, fire brand, and X where X is something that helps them do the above 3 things even better.

Vine shield--immobilizes, does retaliation type stuff, and protects the user. Fire brand does Aoe. The bane causes fear (I think?) and doesn't get tired. As well as being basically tough to begin with.

When you figure out a thug to use, that's what you're looking for--stacking overlapping effects as deep as possible. And don't worry about being creative. Do what works. Bane + vine shield + brand is a pretty basic setup that a lot of nations seem to be able to figure out. You don't have to create some nuclear bomb self-rezzing phoenix or something out of the gate. Just make something dumb and tough decked out with 3-4 items that keep it alive and help it hurt as many things as possible. Above all remember, they're replacements for basic armies, not trump cards. SCs are trump cards. And they're more esoteric and complex to build.

The Sharmat
Sep 5, 2011

by Lowtax

Libluini posted:

Why stop there? poo poo, now I want a race with size 6 giants styled after those ancient Greek soldiers who lugged 11 foot long lances around. With their size they could easily carry something absurd like a 33 foot long lance. What weapon length would that translate to in Dominions-terms? Infinity plus one? :v:

Actually, phalangites carried a sixteen foot pike.

This is a good idea.

Neruz
Jul 23, 2012

A paragon of manliness
It's a pity the really big strong giants can't do a 'sweep' attack where they just swing their weapon in a horizontal arc at chest height and obliterate an entire square of dudes.

The Sharmat
Sep 5, 2011

by Lowtax
Guess you could just give everyone trample.

jsoh
Mar 24, 2007

O Muhammad, I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight
You could just give them an aoe 1 attack.

archaeo
Nov 5, 2009

may the power of Hecate compel you

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Blood hunting is very difficult under 5,000 population. It also reduces population and its growth. You can only milk a province for so much blood before it runs out. Death + blood forces you into "expand or die" mode, which is risky.

No, it is not that bad. I'll often leave a hunter in a province until the pop is trending to 3.5k. It affects the chance of a successful hunt, but otoh, failure allows the BH unrest in the province to recover somewhat, so it is involved in a somewhat homeostatic mechanism. A B3 Raksharaja w/ a dousing rod yields not much less at all in a 4k province as in a 6k, overall.

As to "expand or die," if you're not expanding, you are already dying. It's like Nietzsche's understanding of the Will to Power - stasis is already death. :)

I've run many blood nations, almost all with death; most recently a win in #testcradle w/ Death-2 Lanka. Sure, growth would be nice, but not at the price of your sacreds (if you have good ones). Have a stronger force, and take over more provinces.

Pavlov posted:

I don't think taking death and rushing is as viable anymore.
That's just not so. What in Dom4 is preventing rushes? It is true that if you have heavy death, you will most definitely feel it by the middle game. There is no doubt some opportunity cost.

tldr; Builds is correct.

archaeo fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Jan 14, 2014

TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.
This is all generally correct but I can't help but nitpick a few inaccuracies.

TheCosmicMuffet posted:

Follow up. I'm *not* super experienced, but here's what thugging comes down to as far as I understand it.

There's a lot of ways for a 'hit' to fail on someone in Dominions. You need to make sure that you minimize that. Awe and fear are two ways--they make someone reluctant to hit at all. Immobilize prevents new people from sweeping in around you to try to hit you. There's stuff that absorbs hits, but generally those suck. Luck I think is one of the type that scale to large numbers of enemies.

In dom4 luck sucks and actually does not scale to large #s of enemies because you get hit and it fails = you die.

In terms of abilities that prevent a unit from being hit, all of them that stop an attack or prevent all of the attack's damage are functionally the same, and they all stack with each other. You have two 50% different abilities that means you're hit 25% of the time, and that's better than upping a 50% to 60%; that means it's better to add another attack-preventing ability than, say, increase your awe strength. Abilities that stop working after a certain number of hits are worse, technically speaking, but some of them like Mistform have very powerful effects. Such abilities would include Mistform, Mirror Image, dom4 Luck, and the Defense stat, to name a few.

quote:

Then there's managing your staying power. Fatigue is the enemy. If you picked stuff to protect you that tires you, then the thug is worthless, basically. If you have some spell that's part of your thug's repertoire, and they use it until they pass out, that's pointless too. You're looking for things that bump your stamina, or let you ignore it. I think this is why Banes are so popular--they're undead, and don't get tired.

Thugs passing out is basically irrelevant; by the time you're near unconscious you'll be dead. Gaining even as little as 10 fatigue means a reduction in attack and defense and a massively increased chance of a critical hit. It only takes one crit to annihilate a thug, or two or three to kill an SC. Generally speaking you want to keep thug fatigue below 20 or so.

Thugs that spam a damage spell can work, they're just much more specialist and difficult to wield right.

quote:

Finally there's how they're going to do damage. However you choose to arm them, if they can't handle large groups then they're not really doing their jobs. You're looking for retaliation type stuff--where if they get hit, they hit back, area weapons, and spell like effects that poo poo on anyone nearby (e.g. poison or something).

Retaliation-style stuff is not very good, if it requires you to take damage first. The only real exception is a hitpoint-tank supercombatant with stacked regeneration, among other abilities, or a Phoenix Pyre specialist.

However, there are a few retaliatory abilities that retaliate on-attack, not on-hit. For example, Fire Shield and similar, Petrification, Eye Shield, these all retaliate regardless of whether your thug/SC is hit or not.

quote:

You can specialize a thug towards attacking SCs or sieging, too, but basically you want these guys to stand in the place of an army, and they have to do what an army does--take hits, do a lot of hits, and stay in the battle as long as possible.

While you can use thugs in place of armies, I don't really recommend it. Thugs should be able to do the job of small to medium armies; that is to say, they should force a disproportionate response or continue conquering stuff unhindered. You can raid with micro-armies after all, but they can be foiled by high levels of PD or by quickly-recruited armies. When you use a non-specialist thug you are saying to the enemy "You will need at least *this much* to stop me". Flying or Stealth on thugs is also excellent because it means *this much* needs to also include teleporters or really good mind reading.

Thugs in armies or as armies can definitely work, but their primary counter is battlemagic, as it's very difficult to proof a unit designed to be geared on the cheap against all the scripts available to a mage. They can also be taken down by elite units fairly easily; sending thugs against F9 jags or Storm Demons or even most blessed giants is suicide. When you send thugs as armies, you want to always be mindful of the enemy's capabilities or predicted capabilities and pre-plan accordingly. That also means promptly withdrawing the thugs if you predict they'll face something they can't deal with.


quote:

The quintessential thug, then, seems to be the Bane with vine shield, fire brand, and X where X is something that helps them do the above 3 things even better.

Vine shield--immobilizes, does retaliation type stuff, and protects the user. Fire brand does Aoe. The bane causes fear (I think?) and doesn't get tired. As well as being basically tough to begin with.

No fear on a Bane. The Bane is dirt cheap, doesn't tire, and comes with armor built-in. That's convenient because it means you don't have to shore up his other stats.

Neruz
Jul 23, 2012

A paragon of manliness

archaeo posted:

That's just not so. What in Dom4 is preventing rushes? It is true that if you have heavy death, you will most definitely feel it by the middle game. There is no doubt some opportunity cost.

As a number of players are discovering recently it's quite difficult to siege most factions capitols down and you need to dedicate a fair amount of forces into keeping someone contained in their cap if they're really determined to gently caress with you. If someone doesn't go AI and instead switches into spiting you they can be a seriously crippling thorn in your side.

I have no idea how accurate all this is as I have yet to have the opportunity to siege someone's cap, but I've been seeing a lot of talk about people getting hosed by that thorn in the IRC channel and with the new fort upgrades that you get for free on your cap they are fuckin tanks so I find it plausible.

TheDemon posted:

No fear on a Bane. The Bane is dirt cheap, doesn't tire, and comes with armor built-in. That's convenient because it means you don't have to shore up his other stats.

That's why you give him a horror hat.

President Ark
May 16, 2010

:iiam:

The Sharmat posted:

Actually, phalangites carried a sixteen foot pike.

This is a good idea.

The spear in question is called a Sarissa, and they apparently got as long as 21 feet.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

The Sharmat posted:

Actually, phalangites carried a sixteen foot pike.

This is a good idea.

Which means giant phalangites could theoretically carry 48 foot long monster pikes! If 12 is the maximal possible weapon length in Dominions 4, we could assume length 12 is what normal human sized phalangites would have -and since a weapon length of sixteen foot is approximately the same as the abstract game term weapon length 12, we get a multiplier of (rounded) 1,33, which we apply three times instead of just tripling giant weapon length. Now my bad math gives me something like weapon length 28,23.

Alternatively, we could skip all that trying to be sensible and just triple everything. Weapon length 36! Wait a minute, how far reaches weapon length 36? Is one weapon length equivalent to range 1? poo poo, now we have giants who can skewer the enemy from half the map away. Maybe a bit too OP?

One question remains: Can maximum weapon length be modded? :v:

Edit:


Oh man, the number continues to rise. But I think at the moment we have size 6 giants mowing down the enemy with 63 foot long pikes we have left phantasy land and entered the city state of Ludicrous.

Libluini fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jan 14, 2014

Nuclearmonkee
Jun 10, 2009


Neruz posted:

That's why you give him a horror hat.

For the cost of the horror helm you can get another bane lord though. Horror helm by itself doesnt significantly change a banes performance. Unless I have a D surplus or really want that fear I'd rather just make another bane or use the D's elsewhere.

Eschatos
Apr 10, 2013


pictured: Big Cum's Most Monstrous Ambassador

Nuclearmonkee posted:

For the cost of the horror helm you can get another bane lord though. Horror helm by itself doesnt significantly change a banes performance. Unless I have a D surplus or really want that fear I'd rather just make another bane or use the D's elsewhere.

Yeah, you're far better off going for cost efficiency than pure power with thugs. I'd never put more than 20 gems worth of gear on a thug, and less than that if I can reasonably avoid it. Of course you can always go into mini-SC territory if you get a really good heroic ability or win the arena or something like that, but otherwise it's just not worth it.

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.

Eschatos posted:

Yeah, you're far better off going for cost efficiency than pure power with thugs. I'd never put more than 20 gems worth of gear on a thug, and less than that if I can reasonably avoid it. Of course you can always go into mini-SC territory if you get a really good heroic ability or win the arena or something like that, but otherwise it's just not worth it.

A really powerful bless can turn thugs into mini SCs as well. For example n9 e9, with a few thrones giving resists or +def.

Ryoji
Sep 1, 2012
My friend and I bought a copy of Dom4 at Gamersgate.
We tried to play together online but we couldn't do it.

I did the host setup and gave my friend my ip and the port number. I did set my firewall into playing mode, for whatever good that might be.
However he could not conntect to my game. I also opened the dom4 program a second time in order to connect myself to my host setup, but also this proved to be futile.

What should I do the next time?

MF_James
May 8, 2008
I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

Ryoji posted:

My friend and I bought a copy of Dom4 at Gamersgate.
We tried to play together online but we couldn't do it.

I did the host setup and gave my friend my ip and the port number. I did set my firewall into playing mode, for whatever good that might be.
However he could not conntect to my game. I also opened the dom4 program a second time in order to connect myself to my host setup, but also this proved to be futile.

What should I do the next time?

I know zero, absolutely zero about hosting Dom3/4 games, but my first question would be, the IP address you gave him, was it your internal IP address (depending on router it generally starts with 192.168.x.x) or the external address (i.e. the address your modem actually holds).

Past that, I wouldn't know where to begin telling you what the problem is.

**EDIT**

For some of my own content/questions. I have started playing a bit more recently trying to get more knowledgable about the game before I poo poo up some MP games and I've got a few questions.

I've gotten pretty good with a sacred bless strat, specifically I think machaka or whoever has the jaguars, I floundered more mid/late game due to not really knowing thugs/sc or end-game spells, I basically brute forced my way into a win vs computer, but I figure I will learn the spells etc in the next couple games.

My next early game strat I want to try is flame arrows, how should I approach this? My first idea was to try the one race that has chariots+cheap 10gp/3(or6supplies) archers. I was going to run over weak armies with chariots for a bit and then once I've got some archers built up (and flaming arrows researched) start destroying with those. I think one problem I noticed with this strat is that it's EA tien'chi I think and they don't have any F3(or maybe arrows is F4?) the best you can get is F2. Should I not try flaming arrows with a race like that, should I use my pretender as an arrow god, or should I just carry gems, phoenix power and use gems for greater glory? If I should use a different race for flame arrows, what race is a good one for flaming arrows late early/mid-game strat?

Also I understand that there's probably 1000000 different ways to execute a strategy like this, just trying to figure out one so I can see how it works and kind of learn/grow from there

MF_James fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Jan 14, 2014

Eschatos
Apr 10, 2013


pictured: Big Cum's Most Monstrous Ambassador

Ryoji posted:

My friend and I bought a copy of Dom4 at Gamersgate.
We tried to play together online but we couldn't do it.

I did the host setup and gave my friend my ip and the port number. I did set my firewall into playing mode, for whatever good that might be.
However he could not conntect to my game. I also opened the dom4 program a second time in order to connect myself to my host setup, but also this proved to be futile.

What should I do the next time?

Set up port forwarding if you haven't already, and if that doesn't work just use llamaserver.

Ilanin
May 31, 2009

Smarter than the average Blair.

MF_James posted:

My next early game strat I want to try is flame arrows, how should I approach this? My first idea was to try the one race that has chariots+cheap 10gp/3(or6supplies) archers. I was going to run over weak armies with chariots for a bit and then once I've got some archers built up (and flaming arrows researched) start destroying with those. I think one problem I noticed with this strat is that it's EA tien'chi I think and they don't have any F3(or maybe arrows is F4?) the best you can get is F2. Should I not try flaming arrows with a race like that, should I use my pretender as an arrow god, or should I just carry gems, phoenix power and use gems for greater glory? If I should use a different race for flame arrows, what race is a good one for flaming arrows late early/mid-game strat?

Flaming Arrows is F4, but since you frequently want to be able to cast it in multiple battles on one turn you can't just use a pretender. Phoenix Power and a gem is one approach (though since Flaming Arrows has a fatigue cost of 100 this will make your mage fall asleep thereafter, and I think the AI will use another gem to reduce fatigue if it's got one there, or at least my F3 Adepts of Pyriphlegeton seem to use far more gems than I expect them to) - if you're going to do that, you probably want to forge Fire in a Jar which makes you a fire gem for each battle. If you have an F4 pretender though you can use him to forge a fire booster at Construction 4 (Flame Helmet), but that's not really worth it unless you've got an F3 to put it on (which then means you can cast Flaming Arrows turn 1, which can be tactically very useful).

amuayse
Jul 20, 2013

by exmarx
I usually carry two extra gems on my witch hunters and grand masters (both are equipped with flame jar) for MA Marignon since they occasionally suffer retardation and use a gem while casting phoenix.

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.
This seems like a good time to remind the newbies that they can, and should, use scouts (or commanders in a pinch) to carry gems for the mages, so they don't accidentally use too many.

Victor Vermis
Dec 21, 2004


WOKE UP IN THE DESERT AGAIN

MF_James posted:

Flaming Arrows

I haven't done it myself yet, but EA Abysia has F3 casters everywhere (and slow-to-recruit F4 that are cap-only) and as they usually take high resource scales, cobbling together armies of independent Archers shouldn't be too hard. This is especially nice because Abysian troops have fire resist and are quite good- meaning they can tie up the enemy while you fire into the melee.

EA Machaka has slow-to-recruit F3 casters that are capital only, and a Bouda equipped with a Dwarven Hammer can make Fire Jars for the low low cost of 3 fire gems. Their pygmy archers are particularly nice because they are the cheapest in the game. At 5 gold and 1 resource, you can mass them in a hurry.
EA Machaka's native front line troops will get chewed up by friendly fire, but if you have Fire Gems to spare Terracotta soldiers are summonable at Ench4 (same as Flaming Arrows) and are very durable fire-resistant infantry.

Your strategy that you wanted to use would work well with EA Machaka because they can lean on Elephants until flaming arrows is researched.

MF_James
May 8, 2008
I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

Victor Vermis posted:

I haven't done it myself yet, but EA Abysia has F3 casters everywhere (and slow-to-recruit F4 that are cap-only) and as they usually take high resource scales, cobbling together armies of independent Archers shouldn't be too hard. This is especially nice because Abysian troops have fire resist and are quite good- meaning they can tie up the enemy while you fire into the melee.

EA Machaka has slow-to-recruit F3 casters that are capital only, and a Bouda equipped with a Dwarven Hammer can make Fire Jars for the low low cost of 3 fire gems. Their pygmy archers are particularly nice because they are the cheapest in the game. At 5 gold and 1 resource, you can mass them in a hurry.
EA Machaka's native front line troops will get chewed up by friendly fire, but if you have Fire Gems to spare Terracotta soldiers are summonable at Ench4 (same as Flaming Arrows) and are very durable fire-resistant infantry.

Your strategy that you wanted to use would work well with EA Machaka because they can lean on Elephants until flaming arrows is researched.

I'll give that a go, I really like trampling enemies to death at the start, it's very satisfying watching things disappear under bigger things.

Lipton Iced Soup
Sep 4, 2011

Menacing

Ryoji posted:

My friend and I bought a copy of Dom4 at Gamersgate.
We tried to play together online but we couldn't do it.

I did the host setup and gave my friend my ip and the port number. I did set my firewall into playing mode, for whatever good that might be.
However he could not conntect to my game. I also opened the dom4 program a second time in order to connect myself to my host setup, but also this proved to be futile.

What should I do the next time?

If you want to host easily just between you and your friends I recommend Hamachi or other programs similar to it. There are plenty of guides to getting it set up as well so that shouldn't be an issue.

Neruz
Jul 23, 2012

A paragon of manliness

Victor Vermis posted:

I haven't done it myself yet, but EA Abysia has F3 casters everywhere (and slow-to-recruit F4 that are cap-only) and as they usually take high resource scales, cobbling together armies of independent Archers shouldn't be too hard. This is especially nice because Abysian troops have fire resist and are quite good- meaning they can tie up the enemy while you fire into the melee.

EA Machaka has slow-to-recruit F3 casters that are capital only, and a Bouda equipped with a Dwarven Hammer can make Fire Jars for the low low cost of 3 fire gems. Their pygmy archers are particularly nice because they are the cheapest in the game. At 5 gold and 1 resource, you can mass them in a hurry.
EA Machaka's native front line troops will get chewed up by friendly fire, but if you have Fire Gems to spare Terracotta soldiers are summonable at Ench4 (same as Flaming Arrows) and are very durable fire-resistant infantry.

Your strategy that you wanted to use would work well with EA Machaka because they can lean on Elephants until flaming arrows is researched.

For flaming arrows you want MA Marignon imo; they have easy access to recruit anywhere F2 casters and have an str cap only caster that can potentially get up to F5. Their crossbowmen are fairly cheap at 10g\8r and are of course awesome because crossbows (seriously crossbows are the best) and it's usually not too difficult to find some cheaper indie archers to round out the crossbowmen if resources become an issue.

TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.
I feel like I post this every page, but for Flaming Arrows you only need a F2 mage. You then cast Phoenix Power to make the mage F3 and then use an extra gem when casting Flaming Arrows (total 2 gems in the unmodded game).


Neruz posted:

As a number of players are discovering recently it's quite difficult to siege most factions capitols down and you need to dedicate a fair amount of forces into keeping someone contained in their cap if they're really determined to gently caress with you. If someone doesn't go AI and instead switches into spiting you they can be a seriously crippling thorn in your side.

I have no idea how accurate all this is as I have yet to have the opportunity to siege someone's cap, but I've been seeing a lot of talk about people getting hosed by that thorn in the IRC channel and with the new fort upgrades that you get for free on your cap they are fuckin tanks so I find it plausible.


That's why you give him a horror hat.

Horror helm doesn't really do anything for him though, unless you also give him the gold shield, and even then it's a waste of gems that you could spend to summon another bane.

As for the siege issue, it kind of is and it kind of isn't. If you pin 100 troops and all the cap mages inside the fort, then yeah you have problems. If you draw them out successfully and kill them and leave 30 troops and 2 mages in the fort then you don't care even if it takes 20 turns to siege. If you pin them in the fort but are able to secure 20 provinces the enemy had influence over then you can just build 150 slingers one turn with your 20 provs of gold or something and stick them on the fort. The enemy usually won't sortie, especially because if you take all the surrounding provinces they lose a proper scout report of your siege forces.

To have effective control over an area or to have effectively won a rush war doesn't always mean you have to siege anything at all.

A huge mistake a lot of new players make is pinning their good armies to sieges. A veteran player often doesn't even bother sieging at all with their main armies and leaves single units or single commanders to maintain sieges while the armies are off doing more important things. A secondary army or even just a group of siege fodder backed by an SC for fort storming follows up later when the siege itself doesn't matter anymore. Of course, there's counter-tactics to that, so a lot depends where the enemy's forces are concentrated and how proactive they are at disabling your ability to stopper forts without a real siege.

e: As to the original topic, damaging the cap walls is only relevant to rushes insofar as early game you can't produce a siege force easily and therefore have to use your main army. In the context of the rush itself that doesn't actually matter; the main objective is to prevent recruitment at the cap, conquering it comes long after. So rushes are just as effective regardless of wall strength. What it matters is in the context that other enemies will interfere or in the context of your midgame war pace after the rush has been successful.

TheDemon fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Jan 15, 2014

Victor Vermis
Dec 21, 2004


WOKE UP IN THE DESERT AGAIN

Neruz posted:

For flaming arrows you want MA Marignon imo; they have easy access to recruit anywhere F2 casters and have an str cap only caster that can potentially get up to F5. Their crossbowmen are fairly cheap at 10g\8r and are of course awesome because crossbows (seriously crossbows are the best) and it's usually not too difficult to find some cheaper indie archers to round out the crossbowmen if resources become an issue.

Call it a philosophical difference, but 2x 5 Gold 1 Res ShortBow Archers firing a flaming arrow each every round vs 1x 10 Gold 8 Res Crossbowmen firing a flaming bolt every other round sounds like a better deal for the nation bringing the little guys. And that's before considering the benefits of being able to completely sink production scales while still being able to mass them faster than crossbows.

TheDemon posted:

I feel like I post this every page, but for Flaming Arrows you only need a F2 mage. You then cast Phoenix Power to make the mage F3 and then use an extra gem when casting Flaming Arrows (total 2 gems in the unmodded game).

There are starving magma children in Abysia that don't have enough fire gems, please don't waste yours on frivolous Flaming Arrow adventures with non-optimal nations.

Neruz
Jul 23, 2012

A paragon of manliness

Victor Vermis posted:

Call it a philosophical difference, but 2x 5 Gold 1 Res ShortBow Archers firing a flaming arrow each every round vs 1x 10 Gold 8 Res Crossbowmen firing a flaming bolt every other round sounds like a better deal for the nation bringing the little guys. And that's before considering the benefits of being able to completely sink production scales while still being able to mass them faster than crossbows.

You're significantly underestimating how awesome crossbows are; crossbows are AP and piercing damage, meaning they ignore 70% of the opponent's prot value. They're also range 35 and the range increase from 20 to 35 is quite significant.

The best archers in the game atm are Hoburg Crossbows; size 1 dudes with crossbows.


To use an example, your flaming arrow pygmies will do only the fire damage to dudes with 10 prot, flaming arrow xbowmen will do 7+ physical damage and the fire damage to dudes with 10 prot from further away and with better accuracy.




Seriously, go run a performance test between pygmies and crossbowmen, the crossbowmen will outperform the pygmies against most foes (assuming approximately the same gold expenditure).

Neruz fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Jan 15, 2014

Barono
May 6, 2007

Rich in irony and most satirical
The best siege trick is to play a nation with stealthy troops, and set it up so that when they storm there's a surprise army waiting. Also, you can sneak out and in at your leisure to raid around.

Ryoji
Sep 1, 2012

Eschatos posted:

Set up port forwarding if you haven't already, and if that doesn't work just use llamaserver.

Thanks for your help!
Which ports do I have to forward?
I tried the one asked from Dom4, and now I can connect to myself, but then it says "Waiting for game info" and nothing happens.

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011
Quick question about Pangaea's Minotaur Lords: are their standard axes REALLY more powerful than the axe, swords, etc that I'm able to enchant, or is it displaying the total damage, after str modifiers, etc. are added? Also, are they one-handed or two? Since they LOOK two-handed, but it doesn't say either way in the weapon info window. (since yeah, I'm just wondering about if I can/should give them a tower shield too)

Superterranean
May 3, 2005

after we lit this one, nothing was ever the same

Major Isoor posted:

Quick question about Pangaea's Minotaur Lords: are their standard axes REALLY more powerful than the axe, swords, etc that I'm able to enchant, or is it displaying the total damage, after str modifiers, etc. are added? Also, are they one-handed or two? Since they LOOK two-handed, but it doesn't say either way in the weapon info window. (since yeah, I'm just wondering about if I can/should give them a tower shield too)

on the unit's paperdoll, it's showing the modified number - so strength is included. if you click (it might be right-click?) on the weapon, you'll see the weapon details - which are unmodified.

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011

Superterranean posted:

on the unit's paperdoll, it's showing the modified number - so strength is included. if you click (it might be right-click?) on the weapon, you'll see the weapon details - which are unmodified.

Excellent, thanks for that - I'll give it a look when I get home (looks like my pretender might be spending a year enchanting, after all!)

EDIT: vvv loving hell vvv

Major Isoor fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Jan 16, 2014

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003

I really like the new "this magic site allows this event to happen" things in Dom4. Mostly I get cool poo poo related to the Mist Covered Highlands.

Sometimes, though:



:gonk:



:stonk:

(PD got lucky and crippled it first round with a crossbow bolt but that's not the point)

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.


Grimey Drawer
He looks friendly. You should have converted him.

Azram Legion
Jan 23, 2005

Drunken Poet Glory

goatface posted:

He looks friendly. You should have converted him.

I'm not sure if it goes for other nations, but for MA Ermor that event gives you the mummy as a commander.

Edit: Forgot to add that I got it as a commander after completing a "story-line" thing where I moved a Dusk Elder to the site and kept it there for a while.

Superterranean
May 3, 2005

after we lit this one, nothing was ever the same

Penguingo posted:

I really like the new "this magic site allows this event to happen" things in Dom4. Mostly I get cool poo poo related to the Mist Covered Highlands.

Sometimes, though: :gonk: :stonk:

when the Silver Sarcophagus opened in my game, it gave 2 worldwide death scales and 2 worldwide misfortune scales.

Diogines
Dec 22, 2007

Beaky the Tortoise says, click here to join our choose Your Own Adventure Game!

Paradise Lost: Clash of the Heavens!

I play single player because I suck and because I enjoy it.

Any hot maps people are playing? Not seeing much in the way of maps for DOM4 yet.

Eschatos
Apr 10, 2013


pictured: Big Cum's Most Monstrous Ambassador

Ryoji posted:

Thanks for your help!
Which ports do I have to forward?
I tried the one asked from Dom4, and now I can connect to myself, but then it says "Waiting for game info" and nothing happens.

You choose what port to use when you set up the server. I generally pick the default, 1024.

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Decrepus
May 21, 2008

In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.


Diogines posted:

I play single player because I suck and because I enjoy it.

Don't let sucking keep you from playing multiplayer. Sucking in multiplayer is fun.

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