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VanSandman posted:Oh my god you nerds just make out already. Just a heads up, never read the Mass Effect books.
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Jan 17, 2014 09:41
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Fried Chicken posted:The Milky Way has an estimated 200-400 billion stars. So what does any of this have to do with the fictional setting that this thread is about?
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Jan 17, 2014 10:40
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So today I learned about Doombreed, apparently Khorn was so impressed with Genghis Khan's rampage around Asia and Europe he made Genghis a Demon Prince even stronger than Angron and Khârn?
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Jan 17, 2014 12:08
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About the size of the legions, they tend to vary widely in size, and, as far as I know, the only one we know the exact numbers are the Ultramarines with two hundred and fifty thousand dudes, which is a mind numbing number.
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Jan 17, 2014 12:09
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Sandweed posted:So today I learned about Doombreed, apparently Khorn was so impressed with Genghis Khan's rampage around Asia and Europe he made Genghis a Demon Prince even stronger than Angron and Khârn? The Emperor banished that poo poo like it was nothing. Doombringer a bitch. He doesn't really fit with the rest of the lore anyway in the sense that I don't like that he's THAT powerful.
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Jan 17, 2014 12:10
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Angry Lobster posted:About the size of the legions, they tend to vary widely in size, and, as far as I know, the only one we know the exact numbers are the Ultramarines with two hundred and fifty thousand dudes, which is a mind numbing number. Didn't A Thousand Sons / Prospero burns establish the TS and SW as having around 9k and 15k respectively due to their hosed up genetics? I always got the impression that they were among the smaller ones. I just finished reading the Armageddon Re-issue, does anyone recommend the Scars book for an entertaining read? I'm looking for some fun Spacemans fighting after polishing off Caesar's Conquest of Gaul.
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Jan 17, 2014 14:39
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Angry Lobster posted:About the size of the legions, they tend to vary widely in size, and, as far as I know, the only one we know the exact numbers are the Ultramarines with two hundred and fifty thousand dudes, which is a mind numbing number. I can't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but doesn't Deliverence Lost give the numbers for the Raven Guard? Like, Corax loses 70,000 men at the drop site massacre and only has something like 2000 left? The numbers also make sense if you consider that the Ultramarines have a much higher than average production and have possible absorbed two previous legions. Quick google - 3000 left of his 80,000 marines Dog_Meat fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 14:42
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handbanana125 posted:Didn't A Thousand Sons / Prospero burns establish the TS and SW as having around 9k and 15k respectively due to their hosed up genetics? I always got the impression that they were among the smaller ones. I think the Wolves have always been somewhat large, certainly enough to censor two other legions (if that happened). On the other hand one of the books mentions Horus sharing special brotherhood with Fulgrim because the Emperor's Children were incredibly small until they found their Primarch because of an accident in the labs. They followed around the Lunar Wolves for half a century until they were large enough to go on their own. I think if was the Emperor's Children anyway.
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Jan 17, 2014 15:43
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handbanana125 posted:Didn't A Thousand Sons / Prospero burns establish the TS and SW as having around 9k and 15k respectively due to their hosed up genetics? I always got the impression that they were among the smaller ones. Dog_Meat posted:Quick google - 3000 left of his 80,000 marines True enough, but they usually give vague accounts of the numbers and organitzation of each legion, on the other hand Know no Fear gives an accurate number and the basic organitzation of the Ultramarines, which is quite fitting of the character of this particular legion. I don't remember the bit about Deliverance Lost, maybe because *Gav Thorpe*. handbanana125 posted:I just finished reading the Armageddon Re-issue, does anyone recommend the Scars book for an entertaining read? I'm looking for some fun Spacemans fighting after polishing off Caesar's Conquest of Gaul. Scars is decent, but it's fairly slow in the beginning and the pacing/interest varies widely from chapter to chapter. Now that I think about it, it's like the starting trilogy of the Horus Heresy about the Luna Wolves but for the Scars, it introduces the characters, defines their personality and sets their position in the Heresy. Edit: ^^^^ Also, in Scars Leman Russ says the Wolves numbers are vastly depleted in relation to other legions due to the scourge of Prospero and their previous engagements in the Great Crusade. I assume that at the end of the Heresy their numbers were among the smallest of the non-Istvaan loyalists and this explains their small second founding. Angry Lobster fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 16:41
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Fried Chicken posted:Habitable Planet speculation And that's not even counting the huge number of worlds terraformed by humanity during the Dark Age of Technology, which apparently comprises the majority of the planets humanity is now fighting over!
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Jan 17, 2014 16:44
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Angry Lobster posted:
What? It's a great book that makes perect sense! Of course the Emperor would send Corax to get the tools to rebuild his shattered legion in a time when he needs all the strength he can gather and not tell him how to get past the defence system that could possibly wipe out one of his loyal primarchs and the last of his legion. Actually, come to think of it - that sounds exactly like something the Emperor would do.
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Jan 17, 2014 17:32
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Just started Descent of Angels. It reads like a rookie dungeon master's first D&D campaign. Knights this, supplicants that, ~~~honour~~~ of The Order. Ugh. There's so much oooh-rah in the first three chapters I almost choked and died. Does the rest of the book read like this?
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Jan 17, 2014 17:35
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Aziraphale posted:Just started Descent of Angels. It reads like a rookie dungeon master's first D&D campaign. Knights this, supplicants that, ~~~honour~~~ of The Order. Ugh. There's so much oooh-rah in the first three chapters I almost choked and died. Does the rest of the book read like this? Yup, though they add heaping additions of more melodrama, betrayals, brethern-erns, and ~Mystery~ for the hell of it. Keep reading. Take a shot anytime there's a random encounter.
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Jan 17, 2014 17:48
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And regarding Scars, I'm about a quarter through it and am loving how it's spending time concentrating on setting-building scenes and interesting character perspectives of the 30k world rather than jumping right into bolter action. Especially satisfying if you've been curious about the White Scars, which nobody seems to know much about, as a lot of the book so far has fleshed out a lot of that. (Though they do have a reputation for being the legion people tend to overlook.) I'm also loving the conversations so far, especially when Malcador mentions to Dorn: (just fluff spoilers) Malcador Smiled. 'You brothers- such a nest of rivalries. I warned him to make you sisters, that it would make things more civilized. He thought I was joking. I wasn't. It's always interesting to see the ways Malcador and the Emperor's opinions on how to lead humanity differ, and how things might've been different if Malcador was calling the shots.
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Jan 17, 2014 19:15
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I read the Crimson Fist the other day and the Retribution Fleet Dorn sent comprised of 30,000 IF, which was stated to be around a third of the legion. If i'm remembering The First Heretic correctly the WB are around the same size. As for the whole size of the forces invading systems etc, it's not mentioned *that* much because the HH series is basically a primarch circlejerk. However Abnett and ADB do a pretty good job of reminding people that the Legions were just the tip of the spear, they would go in, wreck the system/planet/nations ruling military assets asap then often leave the army to mop up and occupy. This of course varied by legion, some would stay till the entire planet was completely clear, others like the World Eaters would just fight the biggest and baddest battles then move on. Legion has a decent amount of focus on the Imperial Army dudes, while Betrayer talks a bunch about the Titan legions.
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Jan 17, 2014 19:23
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Angry Lobster posted:About the size of the legions, they tend to vary widely in size, and, as far as I know, the only one we know the exact numbers are the Ultramarines with two hundred and fifty thousand dudes, which is a mind numbing number. I think from what i can tell the Dark Angels had around a 120,000. Since apparently half the legion is sitting on Caliban with Luther, and Corswain took half of the remaining half to go and find Russ, and the Lion took the other half (which i think was said to be 30,000) to Guilliman. However at the same time, i do not have the faintest idea of how Fallen Angels fits into anything. Zahriel is using his Librarian powers pretty blatantly, does he just not know about the ban on librarian's?
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Jan 17, 2014 19:30
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So, any news on Interceptor City yet? Bunny needs his plane action.
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Jan 17, 2014 19:32
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handbanana125 posted:Yup, though they add heaping additions of more melodrama, betrayals, brethern-erns, and ~Mystery~ for the hell of it. Keep reading. Take a shot anytime there's a random encounter. There's two kinds of Dark Angels: those who turned against The Big E and the Lion openly, and those who lie about it and wish they had. The whole legion is filled with closet traitors. You can tell from the prologue that the entire planet will feel the same way any What are the inquisition stories like? I'm so accustomed to bolter porn that is Space Marines that I don't know how I'd like such a big change in pace. Less super-human feats of heroics, more cloak and dagger sneaky with hunts with the inquisition, and some truly grimdark last stands with the IG. Do those make for better, more interesting stories than demi-gods? lite_sleepr fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 19:37
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Aziraphale posted:There's two kinds of Dark Angels: those who turned against The Big E and the Lion openly, and those who lie about it and wish they had. The whole legion is filled with closet traitors. You can tell from the prologue that the entire planet will feel the same way any Honestly isn't it pretty much just the ones from Caliban that turned on the Lion/Big E? I know the lion decided to hang out with almost exclusively the ones from Terra.
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Jan 17, 2014 19:40
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UberJumper posted:Honestly isn't it pretty much just the ones from Caliban that turned on the Lion/Big E? It was the ones who were out with him during his foray into responding to Horus' treason. I don't believe they were all 100% Terran, but they had no real choice since they couldn't really land on Caliban.
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Jan 17, 2014 19:46
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Aziraphale posted:on Caliban.
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Jan 17, 2014 19:59
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One Legged Cat posted:I'm also loving the conversations so far, especially when Malcador mentions to Dorn: (just fluff spoilers) Agreed, I laughed so much when I saw that, I wish so hard for ADB's Master of Mankind to be published. I hope we'll get an explanation to why the Emperor appears to be such a dick. Nah, probably not.
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Jan 17, 2014 20:31
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I was thinking of buying this: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1280004a&prodId=prod2340053a I've been looking to start reading the Horus Heresy stuff, thus far the only heresy-era thing I've read is Mechanicus. Is this a decent deal? Price doesn't seem too bad per book, at least as long as not half of the bundle isn't worth reading. I plough through books rather quickly, so just buying a big stack of them at once should keep me busy a while. E: Oh, I looked over the list of recommended books on the first page, and was briefly confused as gently caress about Mechafunkzilla posted:Good So really that should say trilogy, or just tell people to get Enforcer, which is the omnibus. Groetgaffel fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 22:47
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Groetgaffel posted:I was thinking of buying this: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1280004a&prodId=prod2340053a That only has 5 good books in it plus a novella.
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Jan 17, 2014 23:04
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Angry Lobster posted:Agreed, I laughed so much when I saw that, I wish so hard for ADB's Master of Mankind to be published. I hope we'll get an explanation to why the Emperor appears to be such a dick. Nah, probably not. Well, if anybody in the entire BL stable can explain someone's reasons for being a dick in a way that makes them seem reasonable or at least halfway sympathetic, it's ADB.
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Jan 17, 2014 23:08
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Nephilm posted:That only has 5 good books in it plus a novella. You're being a tad harsh, why does everyone hate on Fulgrim? It has been a while since I read it, but I loved the ending. Hell, the fact that ended up reversing it later on annoyed me more than anything else. You do have a point though, some of this books are so awful that really detracts from buying the whole bundle when you could go paperback for like a third the price. I would say 8/15 are Great to Decent with the remainder being bad.
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Jan 18, 2014 15:45
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Is there any ETA on the next Pariah book or Gaunt's Ghosts book? I know I've heard the title of the next book: Warmaster, but that's about it.
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Jan 18, 2014 16:27
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What was wrong with Fulgrim? I thoroughly enjoyed that one - it was arguably my favourite. It got a bit monotonous and the author rambled on in some bits, but it was great. I've heard pretty much everyone other than me say they hate it.
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Jan 18, 2014 23:56
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I didn't have any major problems either. Seems to me like it's a solid, mid-tier Heresy novel.
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Jan 19, 2014 00:50
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Shroud posted:I didn't have any major problems either. Seems to me like it's a solid, mid-tier Heresy novel. The prose was painful at times (go figure) but it did a decent job of providing the backstory to the events within its scope.
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Jan 19, 2014 01:08
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Noctis Horrendae posted:What was wrong with Fulgrim? I thoroughly enjoyed that one - it was arguably my favourite. It got a bit monotonous and the author rambled on in some bits, but it was great. I've heard pretty much everyone other than me say they hate it. Bad McNeil prose plus a thorough lack of sympathetic or compelling characters. Someone said that it reads a lot like a documentary, and it does, but it isn't a particularly interesting one. Descent into Chaos is also something hard to do subtly... so this book doesn't even loving try, which is kind of a plus I guess? But not what I was looking for. I paused 2/3rds of the way through it because it was a chore to read, but what truly killed any interest I had in finishing it was that the few important interesting revelations slash character development it makes are just reversed later on. That makes the book pointless in a very bad way. Fake ed: okay, I'll be fair, it does have like two or three sympathetic/interesting characters, but they are drowned in the sea of poo poo that is everyone else. It focuses too much on the assholes, and they aren't interesting assholes!
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Jan 19, 2014 01:17
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The prose was bad, the "We emulate the Emperor's  perfection " crap was repeated far too often, and the vast majority of the Emperor's Children are completely unlikable dickholes who are also uninteresting characters. McNeill can write good Chaos Marines; Storm of Iron is proof of that. He didn't do it in Fulgrim.
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Jan 19, 2014 02:59
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I just finished Lord of Night and wanted to ask a couple of questions. Really fun book. I'm a newbie to the 40k universe so my questions might seem dumb. Is there any other function to the corona nox? It seems like it is a symbol of authority and that's it. The book says it contains the essence of Kruze but what does that mean? Does it give special powers? I thought once chaos infects someone, that's it. There's no going back. In this book Sahaal was on the verge of being a follower of khorne bu then just stops after he remembers something Cruze told him. Is that canon or something the author made up? During the confrontation with Acerbis and Sahaal. Sahaal claims that the emperor sanctioned all the atrocities that the night lords committed. Acerbis claims that Cruze was delusional and that Cruze never had sanction from the emperor. Is there an official word which one is true?
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Jan 19, 2014 03:07
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lostleaf posted:I just finished Lord of Night and wanted to ask a couple of questions. Really fun book. I'm a newbie to the 40k universe so my questions might seem dumb. 1. Maybe, maybe not. 2. Individuals can dabble with chaos and remain themselves, or even reject it altogether, though it still leaves its mark on the body or the mind or the soul. 3. It's a mystery. If you're interested in the Night Lords (and those close to chaos), you should follow up with ADB's Night Lord's trilogy. Though not exactly a sequel to Lord of the Night, it makes several allusions to it and expands a lot on the identity of the NLs... aside from being an awesome series of books in their own right.
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Jan 19, 2014 03:41
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I'll give you guys that - the Emperor's Children were portrayed as stereotypical goody-two-shoes easily bribed by power. Yeah, the prose itself was bad, but the story was great!
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Jan 19, 2014 04:10
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The Iron Hands sections were my favourite parts of Fulgrim and it's a pity that my favourite legion just mopes about during the heresy.
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Jan 19, 2014 06:39
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Nephilm posted:2% of 200 billion is 4 billion. Yeah I rechecked my math, I was using the wrong range and typoed the excel formula for the IMF. For K-G stars like the paper cites it should be 10%, so of the 400 billion that's the 40 billion handbanana125 posted:Didn't A Thousand Sons / Prospero burns establish the TS and SW as having around 9k and 15k respectively due to their hosed up genetics? I always got the impression that they were among the smaller ones. Well the wolves are smaller because they recruit exclusively from Feneris, not genetics. But the size bump came after those books, at that time the Sons of Horus were 15000, now they are supposed to be 150000. Really, the size of the legions is "big enough". If you need an explanation there are lines suggesting that the traitors were under reporting their numbers for 40 years prior to heresy to get ready, and Dorn, Guilliman, and the Lion had organized things to crank out marines are a really fast rate. I read Scars yesterday, and I really liked it. It isn't "oh wow amazing", but it is a nice step up from the usual stuff. We get some good characterization of the Scars as a legion, and finally an explanation of why Mortarion turned. I liked how without outright saying it but instead talking about what they prized and loved and what motivated them, Wraight made it clear that the Scars were a hairsbreadth from turning to Slaanesh. It also underscores their hatred of the Nurgle worshiping Death Guard, since those two are rival gods. His characterization of the Iron Hand was nice, you see the start of slipping into the mentality he laid out in Wrath of Iron. I liked seeing how the lodges helped bring about the fall of legions - that they were devoted to the warrior ideal, which was personified by Horus, so they followed him and then got snapped up even as they rejected Chaos overtly. And I liked him calling out the stupidity of the orientalism of the white scars before he had to go into it by editorial fiat. It's a solid book. BL's pricing scheme for it is bullshit, but if you can find a copy for regular price its worth reading.
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Jan 19, 2014 17:25
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I think the rival of Nurgle is Tzeench, not Slaanesh, due to the dicotomy of Tzeench power comes from hope and change against Nurgle's despair and hopelessnessFried Chicken posted:And I liked him calling out the stupidity of the orientalism of the white scars before he had to go into it by editorial fiat. Can you elaborate more on this, please? I probably missed this.
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Jan 19, 2014 18:00
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Angry Lobster posted:I think the rival of Nurgle is Tzeench, not Slaanesh, due to the dicotomy of Tzeench power comes from hope and change against Nurgle's despair and hopelessness quote:Can you elaborate more on this, please? I probably missed this. Its real brief in the opening chapters where the terrain born recruit complains about all the Asian recruits being sent to the scars and how that kind of stereotyping is backwards foolish and against what the Imperium advocates Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jan 19, 2014 |
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Jan 19, 2014 18:22
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Fried Chicken posted:Its real brief in the opening chapters where the terrain born recruit complains about all the Asian recruits being sent to the scars and how that kind of stereotyping is backwards foolish and against what the Imperium advocates This seems dumb, all Scars look 'asian' because the Khan looks asian.
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Jan 19, 2014 18:43
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