Ask Go players about Go (come play Go with us)

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AdorableStar: Jul 13, 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1FvPxmmfE needs to go in the ITGO message of the day.

# ? Jan 14, 2014 12:44

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# ? May 12, 2024 14:18

Xom: Sep 2, 2008; 文化英雄; Fan of Britches

YOU ARE DEAD DEAD DEAD should be a permanent fixture in that message so we don't have to search it up every time it's needed.

Xom fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jan 19, 2014

# ? Jan 14, 2014 12:53

o.m. 94: Nov 23, 2009

uranus posted:

Hello friends, I am newly obsessed with Go and am reading and playing all I can. I just played a 15k bot on KGS and lost by 1.5 points after losing probably at least 20 points due to stupid moves in end game. Only a week ago I was destroyed by this bot. Feeling good!

I've got 'the second book of go', which I am reading, and I've been watching some lectures on youtube and also looking at records of pro games just for fun, maybe I'm hoping to absorb some of it into my subconscious haha.

Does everyone here play on KGS, or is there other sites?

Hello friend.

1. You can stop playing bots now. Set up "Automatch" on KGS and play real opponents. OGS if you want correspondence games.

2. Second Book Of Go is a great starting book, good choice. I will also reccomend the first Volume of "Graded Go Problems For Beginners". Doing problems will make you stong.

3. We mostly gather on KGS, you have to join the SA room and ask for permission to ITGO which is our regular channel. If you send "oiseaux" a private message, I will give you access when you next log on. We also play correspondence games on OGS, if you want an endless supply of teaching games, add "oiseaux" to your friends list and I'll play you correspondence and add you to the SA group.

# ? Jan 14, 2014 14:29

Xom: Sep 2, 2008; 文化英雄; Fan of Britches

Xom fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jan 19, 2014

# ? Jan 14, 2014 15:34

xopods: Oct 26, 2010

Hi guys. I rarely play anymore but I was 4 dan in my prime a few years back. I play Mafia here on SA and some of the Mafia goons (including uranus, above) were talking about getting into Go and I decided to offer a series of beginner lectures on KGS for them... just kind of outlining what you're trying to do, some basic shapes and what they're for and how to use them as the building blocks of your tactics... fundamental concepts like territory and influence... that kind of thing. Probably nothing that would be of great use to anyone much stronger than 15k, though you never know, sometimes subtle points arise even when you're explaining things to beginners.

Anyway, this thread was just brought to my attention, so I figured I'd mention it here. The first lecture is going to be tonight at 7:30 EST in the Beginners' Room on KGS. I have the same username there and the game will be called "Go for Goons." Anyone who is interested is welcome to show up. Subsequent lectures might not always be on Tuesdays, though they will generally be weekday evenings, and I'll announce the exact days and times here if there's interest.

# ? Jan 14, 2014 16:02

VictualSquid: Feb 29, 2012; Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.

I think if you are meeting up with people from somewhere else, instead of looking for random people on a server, ogs is a lot better then kgs.

# ? Jan 14, 2014 16:35

o.m. 94: Nov 23, 2009

Probably best to do it on KGS. Having demonstration games visible in a room is much better than trying to find it on OGS, methink

# ? Jan 14, 2014 17:01

xopods: Oct 26, 2010

More importantly, I have extensive experience running demo games and lectures on KGS, and have never even heard of OGS, so I'd have to familiarize myself with a new client. Is it relatively new? When I was playing a lot online, the big ones were IGS and KGS for real-time and DGS for turn-based.

xopods fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jan 14, 2014

# ? Jan 14, 2014 19:27

o.m. 94: Nov 23, 2009

Nothing's changed, really. A new web based server, nova.gs merged with OGS and is now called OGS. It's pretty good for correspondence, has some nice features. The devs are currently refactoring and cleansing up the codebase so they can fix tournament functionality and improve it further. Nowhere near as popular as KGS right now, we'll see how it fares over the next few years!

# ? Jan 14, 2014 20:15

derp: Jan 21, 2010; when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again; Lipstick Apathy

I requested to join the SA group on OGS and KGS. I'm jonasd on both.

# ? Jan 15, 2014 00:50

Xom: Sep 2, 2008; 文化英雄; Fan of Britches

quote:

Move 73
Xombar: you shall not pass
rebus: ?
Xombar: gandalf reference

Move 99
Xombar: http://i.imgur.com/72dijmE.jpg
rebus: i am the huge monster? thanks^

W+R
Athanos: greedy xombar
Athanos: if you lose the big kill it kills you big
rebus: gandalf just stop the monster not kil him^

quote:

WuChou: rebus clearly not familiar with the actual events of gandalf v durin's bane as gandalf does destroy its physical body
WuChou: half credit, I guess
WuChou: since it is also maiar and who knows what happens to its spirit after, maybe purified or jailed by iluvatar or some poo poo~
WuChou: I have already thought about this
WuChou:�too much

Xom fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Jan 15, 2014

# ? Jan 15, 2014 04:41

IMlemon: Dec 29, 2008

KGS stopped working for me yesterday after I updated to the newest JRE version.

kgs posted:

Missing required Permissions manifest attribute in main jar: http://files.gokgs.com/javaBin/cgoban.jar

code:

java.lang.SecurityException: Missing required Permissions manifest attribute in main jar: [url]http://files.gokgs.com/javaBin/cgoban.jar[/url]
	at com.sun.deploy.security.DeployManifestChecker.verifyMainJar(Unknown Source)
	at com.sun.deploy.security.DeployManifestChecker.verifyMainJar(Unknown Source)
	at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.doLaunchApp(Unknown Source)
	at com.sun.javaws.Launcher.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

Any ideas how to get this thing working again?

# ? Jan 16, 2014 15:12

VictualSquid: Feb 29, 2012; Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.

Did you try reducing your java security settings?

# ? Jan 16, 2014 15:17

Xom: Sep 2, 2008; 文化英雄; Fan of Britches

How to get KGS working with Java 7 update 51

# ? Jan 16, 2014 21:30

Fred Lynn: Feb 22, 2013

Xom posted:

How to get KGS working with Java 7 update 51

Great link, thanks a lot! I had to do a few additional things to get it working in Chrome though. I needed to uninstall all of the old versions of Java from my computer first, in order to expose the control panel application for the newest version. After that I was getting exceptions due to the applet using resources from other domains so I needed to add the following to the exception list:

quote:

http://www.gokgs.com/applet.jsp
http://goserver.gokgs.com/javaBin-3.5.10/

# ? Jan 16, 2014 22:52

derp: Jan 21, 2010; when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again; Lipstick Apathy

I've been playing on the 13x13 board a lot today and am finding it more fun because I can actually visualize a plan, and can tell when to fight and when not to a lot easier. Is this good for progressing to a full size board, or am i going to learn to play the game wrong, learn bad habits etc, if I play too much on the small board?

# ? Jan 17, 2014 01:23

o.m. 94: Nov 23, 2009

uranus posted:

I've been playing on the 13x13 board a lot today and am finding it more fun because I can actually visualize a plan, and can tell when to fight and when not to a lot easier. Is this good for progressing to a full size board, or am i going to learn to play the game wrong, learn bad habits etc, if I play too much on the small board?

Not at all, I think progressing from 9 to 13 to 19 is good. Each board size introduces new concepts that might overwhelm if you rush straight into 19. 9 games are short and many so you develop an eye for atari, life and death and fighting; 13 teaches you enclosures, extensions and moyos. You then combine the two in 19 with a grasp of the fundamentals.

# ? Jan 17, 2014 01:46

AdorableStar: Jul 13, 2013

We should have an ITGO Rengo with an SDK paired with a DDK. Thoughts?

e:

I messed this one up pretty badly throughout the game by which I mean should've lost, but somehow came up on top. (Let's not learn the 3-3 invasion joseki. Give me a wall there on the third line and then try to kill me. Also, waste a lot of moves capping etc. while I just play what looks to be random places that actually gives me the edge.) He ended up resigning. Also, my win says B+Forf. I think he resigned, and I don't know why it says that.

AdorableStar fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Jan 17, 2014

# ? Jan 17, 2014 09:54

Under 15: Jan 6, 2005; Mr. Helsbecter will you please stop shooting I am on the phone

He escapes often enough that any time he leaves a game he automatically forfeits it. When that happens, it shows up to you in the game as a resignation, but goes in your record as a win by forfeit.

# ? Jan 17, 2014 13:07

Xyven: Jun 4, 2005; Check to induce a ban

That's not a triple ko (at least not in the way people usually use the term), white is straight up dead, although you can't kill him until all the ko threats have been played. Normally a triple ko is a stalemate

# ? Jan 17, 2014 14:02

Pander: Oct 9, 2007; Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.

oiseaux morts 1994 posted:

Not at all, I think progressing from 9 to 13 to 19 is good. Each board size introduces new concepts that might overwhelm if you rush straight into 19. 9 games are short and many so you develop an eye for atari, life and death and fighting; 13 teaches you enclosures, extensions and moyos. You then combine the two in 19 with a grasp of the fundamentals.

That sounds smart. I just started and have only played 19x19. I start off okay and can do small-scale stuff okay, but after a while I get fatigued trying to keep track of things since I don't have the experience to grasp what's occurring on a strategic level.

Note to self: start smaller literally.

# ? Jan 17, 2014 22:42

Under 15: Jan 6, 2005; Mr. Helsbecter will you please stop shooting I am on the phone

Xyven posted:

That's not a triple ko (at least not in the way people usually use the term), white is straight up dead, although you can't kill him until all the ko threats have been played. Normally a triple ko is a stalemate

Yeah, the most basic triple ko situation comes up when both groups are up for grabs but they're sharing three kos between them, meaning that the situation can go on indefinitely as long as both players are willing to repeatedly play them. If the fight is too big for the players to ignore (and considering the requirements for triple ko, it usually is) the game ends in a stalemate.

# ? Jan 17, 2014 23:38

o.m. 94: Nov 23, 2009

Pander posted:

That sounds smart. I just started and have only played 19x19. I start off okay and can do small-scale stuff okay, but after a while I get fatigued trying to keep track of things since I don't have the experience to grasp what's occurring on a strategic level.

Note to self: start smaller literally.

There is something to be said for throwing yourself right into 19x19, it's basically what I did cause I was hooked; but for more gentle souls it is totally overwhelming. It all depends how you want to approach the game. I say, just get stuck in and play lots of games and hone your steeze. Don't be afraid to lose, just PLAY, and let it come to your mind. Go is a game that favours being bold and unrelenting.

# ? Jan 18, 2014 02:22

o.m. 94: Nov 23, 2009

I wasn't aware such a monstrosity could be. Dear God Khel, what have you done?

# ? Jan 18, 2014 03:45

AdorableStar: Jul 13, 2013

oiseaux morts 1994 posted:

I wasn't aware such a monstrosity could be. Dear God Khel, what have you done?

W+1019.5

I have no idea where to go on this board, and there are so many crosscuts. My weak fighting cannot keep up. Also I ended up with, like, four alive groups out of the whole board. Wasn't as bad as it could've been. :shrug:

# ? Jan 18, 2014 04:14

derp: Jan 21, 2010; when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again; Lipstick Apathy

Holy crap. That is ridiculous. How long does a game on a board that big take?

# ? Jan 18, 2014 04:18

AdorableStar: Jul 13, 2013

uranus posted:

Holy crap. That is ridiculous. How long does a game on a board that big take?

The moves were ~3 seconds to 20 seconds at most and we both had 30 minutes on the clock; I think we weren't even in Byo-yomi when it finished. At least, I barely had gotton into it. But since most of it was me failing and dying everywhere I placed a stone, I think it'd be a lot longer with stronger players who have to know what they're doing and will have something to think about. I better stick to 19x19 and 9x9 for now. :v:

# ? Jan 18, 2014 04:22

derp: Jan 21, 2010; when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again; Lipstick Apathy

Kheldragar posted:

The moves were ~3 seconds to 20 seconds at most and we both had 30 minutes on the clock; I think we weren't even in Byo-yomi when it finished. At least, I barely had gotton into it. But since most of it was me failing and dying everywhere I placed a stone, I think it'd be a lot longer with stronger players who have to know what they're doing and will have something to think about. I better stick to 19x19 and 9x9 for now.

what, no 13x?

# ? Jan 18, 2014 04:37

AdorableStar: Jul 13, 2013

uranus posted:

what, no 13x?

I don't really care too much about 13x13; if I want a good, fast game for fighting, I'll go to 9x9. Or else if I want to work on all the aspects (Of which I know the basics of none), I'll go to 19x19. 13x13 is just some middle child that I don't really feel good with/aroumd. I've only done a few of them though because of that.

Anyways, I had an idea for a different go variant where every 10/20/25 moves or so, you switch colours with your opponet. If you think about it, and you actually play as well as you can on both sides, it could be an interesting variation since it forces you to punish/take advantage of whatever weaknesses you, yourself, left behind as well as whatever your opponet did as well.

I'm also the worst person to be doing this, especially with someone much stronger, since everything I touch turns to shite.

# ? Jan 18, 2014 05:22

AdorableStar: Jul 13, 2013

Kheldragar posted:

Svartvit, I'll play you on KGS later today if you're interested since I, too, suffer from "not playing enough" syndrom. I'm only around 22k, so I shouldn't be much of a challenge.

Go status: played.

As a side note, this is the first time Tsumego has actually had any application with me. I don't really do them, and I guess the ones that I have aren't hard enough, but recognising this feels sweet.

Edit because I don't want to triple post:

Motherfucker thinks he's killed my group up there, but then I found this move.

He ended up escaping. :smug:

AdorableStar fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Jan 21, 2014

# ? Jan 20, 2014 00:10

xopods: Oct 26, 2010

I'm going to do another lecture tonight (Tuesday) at 7:30 EST on KGS in the Beginners' Room. Last week, I gave a kind of hand-waving overview of the strategy of the game, emphasizing that a great deal of the strategy and tactics of Go are rooted in efficiency. Tonight, I'm going to be talking about what efficiency means on the tactical level and covering all the basic two-stone shapes in the open board, from nobi up through ogeima - what they generally accomplish, when it's appropriate to use them, and some common continuations that arise from them.

# ? Jan 21, 2014 15:13

AdorableStar: Jul 13, 2013

xopods posted:

I'm going to do another lecture tonight (Tuesday) at 7:30 EST on KGS in the Beginners' Room. Last week, I gave a kind of hand-waving overview of the strategy of the game, emphasizing that a great deal of the strategy and tactics of Go are rooted in efficiency. Tonight, I'm going to be talking about what efficiency means on the tactical level and covering all the basic two-stone shapes in the open board, from nobi up through ogeima - what they generally accomplish, when it's appropriate to use them, and some common continuations that arise from them.

Following this there will a 10-hour lecture on the Taisha, its myriad of variations, and how it can all be avoided by someone to chickenshit to play it.

I so want to play it in my ddk games. :negative:

# ? Jan 22, 2014 01:12

derp: Jan 21, 2010; when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again; Lipstick Apathy

So someone linked me to Nick Sibicky's lectures on youtube and I've been watching those. I've also been searching for a Go club to join when I move back to Seattle. I found one, and was surprised to see that Nick teaches the free class there :o

# ? Jan 22, 2014 01:17

Uncle Jam: Aug 20, 2005; Perfect

Seattle is one of the few places in the US that has a dedicated location just for Go. Some of the people there are super sperges but all in all its not a bad place to have.

# ? Jan 22, 2014 01:42

Under 15: Jan 6, 2005; Mr. Helsbecter will you please stop shooting I am on the phone

Uncle Jam posted:

Seattle is one of the few places in the US that has a dedicated location just for Go. Some of the people there are super sperges but all in all its not a bad place to have.

It's the only place. The Nihon Ki-in sold the NY center because they were strapped for cash.

# ? Jan 22, 2014 03:07

Istvun: Apr 20, 2007; A better world is just $69.69 away.; Soiled Meat

Uncle Jam posted:

Seattle is one of the few places in the US that has a dedicated location just for Go. Some of the people there are super sperges but all in all its not a bad place to have.

I had been attending their beginner's classes but I'm not in Seattle anymore and it's way harder for me to get the motivation to play, which is really frustrating.

# ? Jan 22, 2014 03:26

derp: Jan 21, 2010; when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again; Lipstick Apathy

Well, I'm feeling pretty lucky right now.

# ? Jan 22, 2014 03:42

AdorableStar: Jul 13, 2013

In the go lecture about extensions and jumps, we discussed various things such as scoring under different rulesets and how a bent four in the corner is alive or dead, or seki depending on if it's Chinese or Japanese. Also unremovable ko threats.

# ? Jan 22, 2014 04:10

xopods: Oct 26, 2010

Kheldragar posted:

In the go lecture about extensions and jumps, we discussed various things such as scoring under different rulesets and how a bent four in the corner is alive or dead, or seki depending on if it's Chinese or Japanese. Also unremovable ko threats.

Yeah, someone needs to teach xopods the Not Getting Derailed Into Discussing Esoteria tesuji.

BTW, bent four in the corner is never seki. It's just that it arguably should be alive when there is a seki elsewhere on the board. Because that's the unremovable ko threat. Or the player whose group is dead as bent four should have the choice between letting it be dead or sacrificing the seki to make it alive, because that's what happens if you actually play it out.

EDIT: I suppose bent four could be seki if played out if the unremovable ko threat was something like a Butterfly Seven, where the first threat doesn't actually break the seki. In that case, forcing the ko is purely loss-making so the player with the inner stones would leave it as seki.

xopods fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jan 22, 2014

# ? Jan 22, 2014 05:28

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# ? May 12, 2024 14:18

IMlemon: Dec 29, 2008

Any tips how to suck less at fast games? I do fine if I play on medium time settings on KGS, but on fast I get down to increment right in the middle game and then proceed to panic and make retarded moves.

# ? Jan 22, 2014 16:39

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