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So after 100 days, they're break-even on staking him instead. EDIT: Also, I almost said something about LE vs CE with regards to betraying the party... but gently caress it. sfwarlock fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Jan 17, 2014 |
# ? Jan 17, 2014 23:01 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 06:42 |
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Sefer posted:Pretty sure Belkar was conscious but paralyzed during Malack's exposition, so at least one member of the order should know it. Incidentally, he's the one most concerned with staking Durkon. And he knows durkon's final request was to save his life. He might be selfless enough to at least free his soul. I mean Belkar is pretty selfish, but in this instance all he needs to do is kill someone, which is right up his alley. Edit: I hope that is how he dies.
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# ? Jan 17, 2014 23:09 |
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He could always gate some tasty creatures, probably enough for everyone!
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# ? Jan 17, 2014 23:32 |
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Couldn't the party just use a helm of opposite alignment or something to make Durkon Good again? There would still be an ethical dilemma (is it right to forcibly change someone's alignment), but as a practical matter the helm would be way cheaper and easier than finding a high-level, sympathetic cleric, and the party would get to keep using Durkon's vampire strength to help out against Xykon.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 00:27 |
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Ponsonby Britt posted:Couldn't the party just use a helm of opposite alignment or something to make Durkon Good again? There would still be an ethical dilemma (is it right to forcibly change someone's alignment), but as a practical matter the helm would be way cheaper and easier than finding a high-level, sympathetic cleric, and the party would get to keep using Durkon's vampire strength to help out against Xykon. I don't think V has ever been shown to have any ability to craft magical items, and you usually can't just find a particular special item like that from merchants.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 00:33 |
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Ponsonby Britt posted:Couldn't the party just use a helm of opposite alignment or something to make Durkon Good again? There would still be an ethical dilemma (is it right to forcibly change someone's alignment), but as a practical matter the helm would be way cheaper and easier than finding a high-level, sympathetic cleric, and the party would get to keep using Durkon's vampire strength to help out against Xykon. It's mind affecting so it would not work on a vampire.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 01:01 |
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Cat Mattress posted:Grognard has no shared etymology with grog, though. Comes from "grogner", the French verb for "grunt". I think that got brought up in either Discworld or the Dresden Files. When people reproduce, they're creating a legacy. When vampires reproduce, they're creating competition. So it's in a vampire's best interest to keep offspring at a minimum.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 02:14 |
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Durkula is also insanely powerful. If their current situation goes tits up you now have an evil epic CR creature that is immortal and has access to high tier spells. Remember Redcloak's speech about the undead? Seems relevant.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 03:06 |
Eifert Posting posted:Durkula is also insanely powerful. If their current situation goes tits up you now have an evil epic CR creature that is immortal and has access to high tier spells. He's not truly immortal until he gets a coffin.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 03:06 |
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Lurdiak posted:He's not truly immortal until he gets a coffin. Yeah, then he will be immortal like Malack.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 04:14 |
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He's not immortal by any D&D stretch, but he did get a good bit harder to kill. Nothing's really immortal in D&D though, even gods turn into husks floating around the Astral Plane if too few people believe in them. e: Which was one of the cooler things about the planar cosmology, in my opinion
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 04:21 |
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Eifert Posting posted:Durkula is also insanely powerful. If their current situation goes tits up you now have an evil epic CR creature that is immortal and has access to high tier spells. Not quite. The +8 is for effective character level, which is different from CR, for which vampires are only a +2. Why the difference? My impression is that they're designed to target minmaxers who would mix character abilities/items/mischievousness to abuse their new-found power. A cleric 8 levels higher than Durkon would absolutely mop the floor with him, so the +8 is a little misleading.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 04:46 |
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ImpAtom posted:I don't know. If what people are saying about D&D vampires is true (and Malick seems to agree with this), there kind of is a right answer. There's no real way to justify allowing a person's soul to be kept in eternal bondage and permanently barred from the afterlife through no action of their own. Durkula is certainly about the most friendly and harmless a vampire can be but he's still keeping a good man's soul from its eternal rest just by existing and it's hard for me to picture Roy being swayed by any argument that ignores that. We don't know this. Rich has never explained how vampires work in the Ootsverse, this is as different between Faerun and Greyhawk as night and day, the mechanics are mute on this. CapnAndy posted:The nasty question, though, is how much of that is still Durkon? He has all of Durkon's memories, all of his mannerisms, all of his goals. He's clearly sentient. If he's capable of comparing his two states and prefers this one, you're stepping over a big line by acting against his wishes. Oh, sure, it's in his best interests. Exhibit A: Baelnorn. Good aligned Elven liches to protect the sacred motherland.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 05:15 |
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Raenir Salazar posted:
One of my players to me: "Why won't you let me play good aligned undead? I just want to gather corpses of people in town and create a useful force of ghouls to protect them?" Undead can in theory be good, but damned if they ever actually are.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 05:45 |
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ikanreed posted:One of my players to me: "Why won't you let me play good aligned undead? I just want to gather corpses of people in town and create a useful force of ghouls to protect them?" Non-free-willed undead are animated using the soul they used to have. This tears the soul away from wherever it is and traps it in a mockery of who they used to be. Animating those is pretty explicitly evil in D&D.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 05:54 |
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Kajeesus posted:Non-free-willed undead are animated using the soul they used to have. This tears the soul away from wherever it is and traps it in a mockery of who they used to be. Animating those is pretty explicitly evil in D&D. That is pretty clearly not how it works in OOTS though. Still evil I'd bet!
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 05:55 |
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ImpAtom posted:That is pretty clearly not how it works in OOTS though. Still evil I'd bet! How so?
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 06:44 |
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Captain Oblivious posted:How so? In one of the prequel stories Xykon traps someone's soul inside of a gem and then resurrects their corpse as a zombie.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 06:47 |
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If I ever play a good necromancer he'll only raise dead people who give permission in the form of a signed contract. I'll have to give him a fantastic charisma score to convince people to sign, though.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 06:48 |
Wouldn't have to be that hard. There are a lot of neutral and evil people who don't give a poo poo what happens to their corpse once they aren't in it. If you offered enough gold up front while they're still alive I'm sure you'd get plenty of takers as long as you avoided goody two shoes realms. Go to Greysky City or pretty much any place in the Western Continent not run by elves in OOtS and you'll have more volunteers than you can handle. Of course, getting the grieving families to hand over the corpse post-mortem might be another thing entirely...
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 07:03 |
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Kajeesus posted:Non-free-willed undead are animated using the soul they used to have. This tears the soul away from wherever it is and traps it in a mockery of who they used to be. Animating those is pretty explicitly evil in D&D. Soooooo... Bone golems?
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 07:11 |
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Nihilarian posted:If I ever play a good necromancer he'll only raise dead people who give permission in the form of a signed contract. And then you can have a hilarious adventure where an immortal accidentally ends up in your shop with amnesia.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 07:59 |
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ikanreed posted:One of my players to me: "Why won't you let me play good aligned undead? I just want to gather corpses of people in town and create a useful force of ghouls to protect them?" Not D&D, but you see that in Unsounded. Zombie teams doing various menial jobs. I like the "Recycled Labor at Work" sign.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 09:42 |
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jng2058 posted:Roy's a PC. Any group of PCs worth their salt when given access to a Vampire Cleric will move heaven and earth to keep said Cleric. There's so much power and utility there. Any group of PCs worth their salt will toss that ECL nightmare as soon as they get a chance. I wonder what will happen to V to prevent him from gaining more problematic magic?
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 11:02 |
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Hypocrisy posted:I wonder what will happen to V to prevent him from gaining more problematic magic? They're going into a final dungeon against a sorcerer, I don't think it's an issue there.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 11:38 |
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Hypocrisy posted:Any group of PCs worth their salt will toss that ECL nightmare as soon as they get a chance. All 3.5 magic is problematic, after about 5th level spells. I'm not sure what you mean.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 18:27 |
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MikeJF posted:Soooooo... Bone golems? Bone golems are constructs, not undead.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 19:46 |
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bartolimu posted:Bone golems are constructs, not undead. I think his point is, "So instead of making an army of animated undead, which would be wrong, why not make an army of Bone Golems, which apparently has no moral repercussions." Of course, I think all golems have a percentage chance to just flip the gently caress out and murder everything, so I don't know if they would make the best civil servants.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 20:37 |
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Capfalcon posted:Of course, I think all golems have a percentage chance to just flip the gently caress out and murder everything, so I don't know if they would make the best civil servants.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 20:42 |
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Capfalcon posted:Of course, I think all golems have a percentage chance to just flip the gently caress out and murder everything, so I don't know if they would make the best civil servants. Only certain golems have that: clay and flesh for sure, but possibly others as well. I know iron and stone don't.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 20:46 |
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Ghouls are free wiled and eat flesh so there are pretty much the worse choice to guard a town.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 20:47 |
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Nihilarian posted:If I ever play a good necromancer he'll only raise dead people who give permission in the form of a signed contract. If you've never heard of the dustmen or played Planescape: Torment, fix that ASAP.
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# ? Jan 18, 2014 21:04 |
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Capfalcon posted:I think his point is, "So instead of making an army of animated undead, which would be wrong, why not make an army of Bone Golems, which apparently has no moral repercussions." If you aren't a creepy weirdo, is there any reason that bone golems would be better or easier to make than many kinds of not creepy golems? I don't know much about them, but they can be made of stone, mud, and all sorts of poo poo. It's hard to imagine a situation where bone is your most plentiful raw material at hand.
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# ? Jan 19, 2014 02:36 |
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Angela Christine posted:It's hard to imagine a situation where bone is your most plentiful raw material at hand.
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# ? Jan 19, 2014 02:40 |
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Angela Christine posted:If you aren't a creepy weirdo, is there any reason that bone golems would be better or easier to make than many kinds of not creepy golems? I don't know much about them, but they can be made of stone, mud, and all sorts of poo poo. It's hard to imagine a situation where bone is your most plentiful raw material at hand. Different golems have different requirements and costs to make. I know flesh golems are particularly cheap, xp and magical reagent-wise, and can be created at a lower caster level than the other sorts. Bone golems may be the same way.
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# ? Jan 19, 2014 02:41 |
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You got me there. I was going to say those aren't very common, but in most D&D settings every third town probably has one.
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# ? Jan 19, 2014 02:44 |
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fool_of_sound posted:Different golems have different requirements and costs to make. I know flesh golems are particularly cheap, xp and magical reagent-wise, and can be created at a lower caster level than the other sorts. Bone golems may be the same way. Also, in case of damage, a bone golem can be repaired with nothing but a tall, refreshing glass of milk!
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# ? Jan 19, 2014 03:32 |
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He prefaced it with "If you aren't a weirdo."
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# ? Jan 19, 2014 08:36 |
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ikanreed posted:One of my players to me: "Why won't you let me play good aligned undead? I just want to gather corpses of people in town and create a useful force of ghouls to protect them?" Have you read into the Eberron setting? Because there's a couple applications of 'good aligned undead' and 'civic engineering via the undead', respectively, there.
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# ? Jan 19, 2014 08:42 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 06:42 |
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ikanreed posted:One of my players to me: "Why won't you let me play good aligned undead? I just want to gather corpses of people in town and create a useful force of ghouls to protect them?" I always wonder where "chaotic good-but-misguided-and/or-socially-inept" falls on the alignment scale.
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# ? Jan 19, 2014 08:50 |