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simplefish posted:I can't tell if you mean the airport or the city but it applies to both. lol
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Jan 20, 2014 09:17
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Hey I just found out my letter of invitation lied in a bunch of places about what I'd be doing AND where I'd be working. I'm thinking I should lawyer up now.
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Jan 20, 2014 16:11
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Woah, why didn't you say so at first? The most important thing to understand about China is how to deal with contract disputes. You want to go to a lawyer the moment you notice an inconsistency, because your employer will admit and respect the validity of the law and admit that you 'won' the legal conflict, abrogating all rights to your employment, paying the contractually stipulated penalty fee to you, and granting you your due letter of recommendation. When you were complaining about your job I (and I guess everyone else) assumed that you were dealing with one of China's standard airtight contracts.
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Jan 20, 2014 16:51
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Ceciltron posted:Hey I just found out my letter of invitation lied in a bunch of places about what I'd be doing AND where I'd be working. I don't know what your personal life is like but it may be best for you to simply leave. This is the poo poo that can happen if you let sleezy companies offer you z-visas and let them sponsor you to come to this country. It's unfortunate and it happens all the time over here, but that's a pitfall of coming to China.
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Jan 21, 2014 00:25
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goldboilermark posted:I don't know what your personal life is like but it may be best for you to simply leave. This is the poo poo that can happen if you let sleezy companies offer you z-visas and let them sponsor you to come to this country. It's unfortunate and it happens all the time over here, but that's a pitfall of coming to China. I don't really have enough money to leave and come back, and I have a girlfriend I really don't want to leave behind.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:45
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Ceciltron posted:I don't really have enough money to leave and come back, and I have a girlfriend I really don't want to leave behind. Pretty much the only thing you should do at this stage is lube up and crawl into your happy place. Life will be easier for you in the long run if you just deal with the (couple?) of months - some of which you have said you won't even be working. Try to save enough money so that you have emergency options and focus on getting your release letter. If your employer continues to ask you to work (i.e. you complete the contract with them) then they have no right to withhold the release letter: it's not a "recommendation" in the sense of a reference. If you have spotted a real irregularity - such as the use of a different company's name or alien employment license number on the invitation letter and/or work permit - then you should just keep it in case you need some leverage to get your final letter. Don't waste it by tossing it about now when they have time to come up with a decent answer.
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Jan 21, 2014 03:05
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Sorry to hear about your situation. Save some money, do some more tutoring gigs on the side. And focus on some sort of exit plan. At the very least you are getting paid on time (I hope?)  Do not drown yourself in alcohol. I have seen it a few times and it's not pretty.
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Jan 21, 2014 03:08
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GuestBob posted:Pretty much the only thing you should do at this stage is lube up and crawl into your happy place. I second this. If you only have a few months left on your contract, it's probably easiest (and safest) just to ride it out.
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Jan 21, 2014 03:25
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Cross-posted from the D&D thread because I'm an idiot who cannot readquote:Had my first round Skype interview for the NET job Friday. I won't know until later this week, but it's looking likely that I'll be invited to interview in New York come this March.
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Jan 21, 2014 03:41
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If it's second round, do it. Good luck Donraj. Stop down playing yourself all the time and stop being such a stereotypical goony goon goon. NET does pay well but it's certainly not the top of the food chain. And even when you do reach US certified international school teacher status, you will see your share of gently caress ups at work. If you survived Shenzhen on a meagre salary and harder conditions then you certainly can up your game and do NET work.
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Jan 21, 2014 03:50
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GuestBob posted:Pretty much the only thing you should do at this stage is lube up and crawl into your happy place. I would say that if you are planning on getting employment elsewhere do NOT tell your current employer. A lot of Chinese companies act like petulant children about this, especially if you are going to another English gig in the city. Hopefully you can finish your contract and get your ticket home after you finish and then start to apply for the other company. I know it is possible to change visas and stuff but it is kind of rare and you usually need a Chinese person that will get tough with them. My company tried this with a few people last year. One girl, her Chinese husband went absolute boss mode on her previous employer. She had a release letter but her company was dragging their feet like idiots and not giving her what she needed. Her husband went off, it was awesome. Another guy had the same thing, a letter saying after six months he would be released, and his company found out he was going to work with us and didn't release him. Even though he had a signed document saying they would. His girlfriend tried to go boss mode, failed. Now we're waiting til his contract is up in July and even then our HR department said they don't expect the company to even legally release him, which means he could end up being screwed coming back for us. It's a huge mess going from one place to another in the same city. If you're looking to stay in Harbin, good luck.
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Jan 21, 2014 04:20
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goldboilermark posted:Now we're waiting til his contract is up in July and even then our HR department said they don't expect the company to even legally release him, which means he could end up being screwed coming back for us. If the employee finishes his contract with his employer then the employer is bound to properly release him. Failure to do so means that the employer has not provided the documentation necessary to employ a foreign national within China and they can get their alien employment license number taken away. All it takes is a solicitor's letter to the employer on behalf of the employee requesting a written explanation of why the document has not been provided, sent CC: the local SAFEA office, and the release letter will appear. This isn't the sort of thing an individual can easily do, but it shouldn't be beyond the reach of your company. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 04:44
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Maybe I mis-worded it, but with the minor stint in his attempt to come to our company, I think they are under the impression that he will receive a poor review, or something like this, when he tries to leave and have it filed with the local government. This makes it a real pain in the rear end to hire someone, at least this was what I was able to interpret. This was all told to me in Chinese from our HR department so I definitely could have missed some of this in translation.
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Jan 21, 2014 05:09
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GuestBob posted:If the employee finishes his contract with his employer then the employer is bound to properly release him. Failure to do so means that the employer has not provided the documentation necessary to employ a foreign national within China and they can get their alien employment license number taken away. I admire your optimism re: government authorities in China actually respecting and upholding what passes for law in this country.
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Jan 21, 2014 05:12
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blinkyzero posted:I admire your optimism re: government authorities in China actually respecting and upholding what passes for law in this country. As long as there is a sweet  gently caress China Customs. Actually no, most customs can go to hell. caberham fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 05:32
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blinkyzero posted:I admire your optimism re: government authorities in China actually respecting and upholding what passes for law in this country. It works like 6/10 times so what else are you going to do? I haven't got the chops to know how to bribe anyone properly. GBM, I have never heard of any employer filing "reviews" of employees anywhere provincial - although all of the FAOs in the colleges and universities in Henan are part of the same QQ group so if you poo poo the bed in one place you'll never get hired by anyone else here.
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Jan 21, 2014 05:43
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GuestBob posted:It works like 6/10 times so what else are you going to do? I haven't got the chops to know how to bribe anyone properly. It's entirely possible that the officials who handle this stuff really aren't as corrupt as I always tend to believe they are and that my cynicism is merely a manifestation of my admittedly bone-deep distrust of all things government. Fearcotton and I have never had any real issues with visas or permits, though our employer has a pretty huge amount of political pull, I'm given to understand.
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Jan 21, 2014 05:52
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I had an interview today that went fairly well, and I'm thinking of taking their offer. They told me they'd be able to get me a new Z-Visa and RP from within Harbin, which I have no idea if that's even possible. They said I wouldn't even have to leave the country. Their current foreign teaching staff I know all have legit documents and are pretty happy so I assume they're good for that end of it. My big issue at the moment is my contract is up in 9 months. I want out, basically.
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Jan 21, 2014 06:21
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Ceciltron posted:...I have no idea if that's even possible... You don't need a new Z Visa if your aren't leaving the country - visas are for entering, RPs are for living. An RP, preceded by a new FEC, is what you need to work anywhere. You can't normally transfer employer without a release letter unless your new employer has bribed someone at SAFEA to fudge your application for a new FEC. If you have nine months left then there isn't much you can do - take a shot at changing jobs I suppose and negotiate with your current employer about ending your contract early but that'll all be up to them and they don't like you. You should certainly be prepared to pay the penalty fee which is noted in the contract. Other than that, if you can't get out of it then you should take steps to improve your current job so that it doesn't crush you into small broken fragments of man goon. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 06:40
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GuestBob posted:you should take steps to improve your current job so that it doesn't crush you into small broken fragments of man goon. This is what I would advice. If you try to leave and they don't like you and they say you are breaking your contract, it can make you not hire-able like I stated before. Your company will have to go to the Foreign Expert place and say that you broke contract and at that time they get to file a report about your work. If they don't like you and file a bad report, you are pretty much screwed. I understand you want out and your company sucked, but you came over here and signed a contract to work with them. Obviously it sucks but it is a good lesson for the future about learning about companies first, finding jobs on the internet, and all that jazz. If you decide to break your contract with them, again, good luck and post about it here because I'm curious how petty your company will be. If they know they are losing you to a competitor, I'm going to guess somewhere on the continuum between "5 year old child who just had his birthday ruined by a child they didn't even want there but their parents said had to come, maybe name this rear end in a top hat Joshua Morse just for kicks, and this five year old will never forgive his parents ever again" and "one of those chicks off Jersey Shore after she found out a guy didn't like her" (which I've never seen an episode but I've seen outbursts at the ex-pat bar on mute and it doesn't look pretty). edit: This whole review thing I am 100% certain about, at least in Tianjin. GuestBob says maybe not where he is. I don't know. Good luck, post all updates here, this stuff fascinates me. The Great Autismo! fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 06:51
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GuestBob posted:If you have nine months left then there isn't much you can do - take a shot at changing jobs I suppose and negotiate with your current employer about ending your contract early but that'll all be up to them and they don't like you. You should certainly be prepared to pay the penalty fee which is noted in the contract. My contract doesn't note a penalty fee, but states they can withhold up to 10,000RMB of pay if I break the contract. Which is strange, but whatever. In fact the big weird thing is the contract has nothing that explains what happens if they break the contract, or I want to leave. Just weird vague language. I'm pretty sure I can get a release. My boss is obsessed with getting good reviews online from ESL sites (she even bribed a leaving teacher with a month's pay to put a good review up) and I'm certain I can wrangle a promise of a good review online for a release.
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Jan 21, 2014 07:59
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Ceciltron posted:I'm pretty sure I can get a release. My boss is obsessed with getting good reviews online from ESL sites (she even bribed a leaving teacher with a month's pay to put a good review up) and I'm certain I can wrangle a promise of a good review online for a release. Didn't you watch Saving Private Ryan? Can you really leave the machine gun nest alone and walk away? Are you ok with making Ceciltron Mark 2? Anyways best of luck.
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Jan 21, 2014 08:02
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caberham posted:Didn't you watch Saving Private Ryan? Can you really leave the machine gun nest alone and walk away? Are you ok with making Ceciltron Mark 2? The promise of a good review is one in which one thing is said but another thing is written. I'M GONNA TAKE DOWN THIS WHOLE CORRUPT ORGANISATION FROM THE INSIDE, BOSS!!!
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Jan 21, 2014 08:09
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blinkyzero posted:It's entirely possible that the officials who handle this stuff really aren't as corrupt as I always tend to believe they are and that my cynicism is merely a manifestation of my admittedly bone-deep distrust of all things government. Fearcotton and I have never had any real issues with visas or permits, though our employer has a pretty huge amount of political pull, I'm given to understand. The China Law Blog guy thinks the Chinese legal system/processes are pretty good, actually. He's biased toward processing of legal business documents, but in several posts he's mentioned that it seems like everything does eventually get processed in China, and he's literally never had to bribe anyone to do it. Like in this post: http://www.chinalawblog.com/2013/10/doing-business-in-china-not-that-bad.html
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Jan 21, 2014 08:35
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caberham posted:Didn't you watch Saving Private Ryan? Can you really leave the machine gun nest alone and walk away? Are you ok with making Ceciltron Mark 2? What does this mean and who are you talking to. Are you addressing me?
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Jan 21, 2014 08:37
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MeramJert posted:The China Law Blog guy thinks the Chinese legal system/processes are pretty good, actually. He's biased toward processing of legal business documents, but in several posts he's mentioned that it seems like everything does eventually get processed in China, and he's literally never had to bribe anyone to do it. Like in this post: http://www.chinalawblog.com/2013/10/doing-business-in-china-not-that-bad.html Guess he never had to deal with China Customs office, or with any local village chief  goldboilermark posted:What does this mean and who are you talking to. Are you addressing me? I was talking about the movie Saving Private Ryan starring Tom Hanks. In that movie, there was a scene when the main characters walked into a hidden German machine gun nest. A few allied soldiers have already been killed. Tom Hanks orders the team to clear out the Machine Gun nest but most of the team balks at his orders. Clearly they could have just side stepped the whole situation and continue on to their main mission. But if the death trap is not disabled, more friendlies will die in the future. In this case, I am comparing Ceciltron's employer with a deadly machine gun nest. So no I'm not addressing you.
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Jan 21, 2014 09:07
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Ah ok saw my name and had no idea what it meant.
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Jan 21, 2014 09:40
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caberham posted:Guess he never had to deal with China Customs office, or with any local village chief Well, that's why I said he's biased toward legal documents related to international business. But I wouldn't be surprised if that sort of thing is more relevant to Ceciltron than customs or a local village chief. I'm not an expert on this stuff, but from what I've seen the Shenzhen government seems to actually follow their official rules & procedures, except ignoring stuff like the ban on e-bikes (they actually enforce this in Luohu and Futian) and smoking indoors, etc. Plus every time I've seen Chinese people think they could bribe or guanxi their way through a governmental obstacle (I've seen this up close all of 2 times) it hasn't even come close to working.
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Jan 21, 2014 10:38
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MeramJert posted:Well, that's why I said he's biased toward legal documents related to international business. But I wouldn't be surprised if that sort of thing is more relevant to Ceciltron than customs or a local village chief. I'm not an expert on this stuff, but from what I've seen the Shenzhen government seems to actually follow their official rules & procedures, except ignoring stuff like the ban on e-bikes (they actually enforce this in Luohu and Futian) and smoking indoors, etc. Plus every time I've seen Chinese people think they could bribe or guanxi their way through a governmental obstacle (I've seen this up close all of 2 times) it hasn't even come close to working. My cousin worked of counsel for a law firm in Shanghai for a long time and he'd agree with you/the Law Blog (obligatory reference required: http://youtu.be/FOtDNXfMyD0) on the document angle. He told me once that stuff gets processed and documents are more or less respected prima facie, but in his experience what happens after that can get pretty loosey-goosey depending on the political sensitivity of the case, power of individuals and organizations involved, etc. As for flexing the ol' guanxi, I've seen totally flagrant, out-in-the-open bribes offered and accepted numerous times. Fascinating to watch unfold as a totally uninterested party. The people involved were always pretty big movers and shakers, though, so that's probably a factor. I doubt Nong Jimmy down the way would have the same luck even if he were super awesome mega rich 土豪 Nong Jimmy.
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Jan 21, 2014 11:36
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Yeah I know that bribery really exists here, but I wonder if it's a bit overstated.
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Jan 21, 2014 14:12
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caberham posted:I was talking about the movie Saving Private Ryan starring Tom Hanks. In that movie, there was a scene when the main characters walked into a hidden German machine gun nest. A few allied soldiers have already been killed. Tom Hanks orders the team to clear out the Machine Gun nest but most of the team balks at his orders. Clearly they could have just side stepped the whole situation and continue on to their main mission. But if the death trap is not disabled, more friendlies will die in the future. That whole movie was a manipulative lie and I have to turn it off whenever it is rewatched in my house because the soldiers' complaints about the absurdity and unfairness of their mission are true and correct. In my mind it's like peak Spielberg ignoring all logic for maximum emotional impact.
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Jan 21, 2014 14:52
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http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/jan/21/china-hollywood-terracotta-army-superhero-movie Look forward to seeing how awkwardly they have to set up the plot to deal with an alien threat that the Chinese government and PLA can't handle but a bunch of 2,000 year-old statues can
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Jan 21, 2014 16:33
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Equally plausible that giant robots can only be piloted by awkward teenage boys with emotional problems.
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Jan 21, 2014 16:36
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The Terracotta Warriors are actually aliens. Chinese civilization is not just 5000 years, but 5 million years old. Stargate was real, and Yu is Xi Jinping.
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Jan 21, 2014 16:41
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I just pulled a runner.
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Jan 21, 2014 17:31
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Let's hear those deets.
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Jan 21, 2014 17:39
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Today I had the gall and nerve to present my contract and ask for two days off this week. I had made it clear before hand that I would request this. My girlfriend was around so she came by after work to translate for me. My boss flips her poo poo over the phone, starts yelling at me, saying awful, awful things in Chinese to my girlfriend, who is, basically, just translating. She threatens to call the cops. I dump tomorrow's course notes on the desk and say something like "no one talks to me or the people i care about that way". And get into the cab to go home. Knowing that it is entirely possible that my boss actually try to call the police on me and my girlfriend at my apartment claiming she was a hooker, I packed my bags, stored all my big stuff with a friend in the same complex and booked two nights at a small if clean hotel. Tomorrow I'm going to see a lawyer about the irregularities and false parts of my invitation and FEC papers, trying to get a release. And look for an apartment. Something small but clean, maybe with a good cooking space, I don't know. My boss had her head teacher, a barely english-capable woman, try to browbeat and threaten me into going in to work tomorrow. I said unless she apologised to me and, more importantly, my girlfriend, I wouldn't give them an answer. She mentioned something about canceling my visa at the end of the week. I don't care anymore. I just hate her and hate her school and hate the nightmare of it. On the plus side this morning's job interview went great and I accepted the job while in the cab home after work. It's an actual school for people preparing to go internationally -well vetted by local expats, to boot.
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Jan 21, 2014 17:52
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You're probably not getting your release letter btw.
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Jan 21, 2014 17:56
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Nope.
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Jan 21, 2014 17:58
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So you didn't actually run away?
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Jan 21, 2014 18:26
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