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crowfeathers posted:"How time tiww weggies?" -fluffies who lose all their limbs fancy this. This happens more than one would think. Heh heh, oh, those rambunctious little scamps
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Jan 20, 2014 15:42
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AlbieQuirky posted:"The Measure of All Things" and several subsequent connected stories by Richard Chedwyk, which have come out over the last ten years or so. They're clever. http://alfalib.com/book/read/id/88528 this seems to be the one, reading it the fluffy stuff is a clear rip off, only they took the message of compassion and humanity to your fellow bio engineered monstrosity and turned it into gleeful torture fantasies.
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Jan 20, 2014 15:55
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Fatkraken posted:http://alfalib.com/book/read/id/88528 this seems to be the one, reading it the fluffy stuff is a clear rip off, only they took the message of compassion and humanity to your fellow bio engineered monstrosity and turned it into gleeful torture fantasies. After reading it, it feels like  : The Short Story. I do volunteer work for a local dog rescue, so it impacts me a lot more.Fortunately, there isn't a page for it on TVTropes. Kaiju Cage Match fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 16:35
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crowfeathers posted:The premise is simple: Twenty Minutes In The Future, Hasbro creates a genetic engineering wing, Hasbio. To capitalize on the insane success of Friendship is Magic, they create the world's first "biotoy" (a term which is intentionally divisive, referring to the concept of a living thing created and marketed as if it were a toy.) ...Okay, that's actually not a bad idea. Kind of Supertoys-Last-All-Summer-Long, a classic sci-fi device that could be a good basis for some poignant little fables about the interaction between sentimentality and objectification. You could do some quite interesting.... quote:Bewildering Punishment: Fluffies are pretty dumb, have short attention spans and forget things easily. This combination means that many punished fluffies end up unaware of why they're being punished at all.  quote:Can't Get Away with Nuthin' : The terrible lying skills of fluffies and the culture of harsh fluffy discipline means that domestic fluffies can rarely do anything wrong without some form of punishment.  quote:No Party Like a Donner Party: Hungry fluffies can eventually realize that other fluffies can be "nummies." Especially common with foals, by stray fluffies or their own parents. Cottonfluffs have this as a defining characteristic.  quote:Surprise Pregnancy: It's obvious for an onlooker when a fluffy mare is pregnant (they swell up into balls and need to be rolled from place to place), but the mare herself may be surprised to find that there are babies inside of her.  quote:Unusual Euphemism: Fluffy speech is mostly comprised of these. "Nummies" for food and "special friend" for love/mate/sex slave/pillow stand out in particular.  quote:Dung Fu: The smarty friend's favored tactic for trying to make a human leave their land to the invading herd, and many a bratty pet fluffy's favored way of sticking it to their owner. It doesn't usually achieve much apart from incurring the human's wrath, and in the case of the smarty (or the pet fluffy in some stories), ensuring a painful death.  Interaction between sentimentality and objectification. Uh, yeah. You could depict it, or you could just do it. I feel the need for a 'wan die' smiley.
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Jan 20, 2014 17:57
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quote:To capitalize on the insane success of Friendship is Magic, they create the world's first "biotoy" (a term which is intentionally divisive, referring to the concept of a living thing created and marketed as if it were a toy.) There's actually a paragraph in the story the fluffy pony thing ripped off of that has this exact nomenclature debate, ending in the term bio-toy. At what point does mere conceptual rip-off become plagiarism?
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Jan 20, 2014 18:31
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Gimnbo posted:There's actually a paragraph in the story the fluffy pony thing ripped off of that has this exact nomenclature debate, ending in the term bio-toy. Is absolutely horrifying fetishization transformative (for Fair Use)?
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Jan 20, 2014 18:41
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That story was a nice read and a nice conjunction between how inhumanely humans can treat others and their capacity for kindness. The fluffy pony stuff has none of that. Yet of course it's got trope pages. No such thing as notability. Must classify everything. Must classify pony torture porn for sociopaths. My hope for humanity makes me wish that this stuff was self aware gross-out material like lovely creepypasta but there's so clearly this fetishistic element to it, and even if you're writing about cute things getting killed and tortured and basking in the disgusting details ironically or whatever it's still horrifying porn for people who want to fantasize about torturing animals.  e: and this also goes to show the problem with the TVT no notability, no criticism policy. They act like all fictional creations need to be classified and try to separate the creators from the works like "well it's only the world of a torture porn fantasy we're describing, we're not endorsing it". Even if they did argue they're just documenting it (in nauseating detail) why the gently caress would you think that's a good article to have on your fiction categorization website? At best it's disgusting and disturbing, at worst, it makes the sort of people who like that think they're in good company and there's nothing wrong with wanting to amputate and kill small animals. To reiterate:
Djeser fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 18:48
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Apple Tree posted:
Equal parts  and  .
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Jan 20, 2014 19:04
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T...tropers post favorite lines from their own writing I guess.  quote:“Did this family ever encourage you to be like the average person?” Chrono asked, with a grin and a gesture at the Wolkenritter. “Have we ever said that being Harlaown is being anything less than exceptional? Nanoha as part of the family is a lot easier than trying to get Ferretboy to do enough combat duty he'll be presentable to the grandparents.” quote:The sickly, black and white dairy cows, grazed lazily in the field next to Gregory and Jason, which was largely withered and discolored with only a few small patches of green. Gregory looked at the field, sadness in his eyes as he turned his head to Jason. quote:"To Alexander, this was simply more proof for his highly unpopular "The tabloids are all true" theory." Haha tropers write bad, right, guys? 
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Jan 20, 2014 19:07
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To get us away from the Fluffy abomination, what's the story behind the no notability, no criticism rule? I get that to them it's supposed to be the basis for them to remain objective when doing... whatever they do (and ultimately manifests as treating My Favorite Fap-Fic #63 the way actual academics would treat Ulysses), but did it come from something happening on TVTropes or has it always been there?
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Jan 20, 2014 19:14
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Gimnbo posted:There's actually a paragraph in the story the fluffy pony thing ripped off of that has this exact nomenclature debate, ending in the term bio-toy. When they miss the point of the original story this badly I'd say calling it "plagiarism" would be too charitable.
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Jan 20, 2014 19:21
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MizPiz posted:To get us away from the Fluffy abomination, what's the story behind the no notability, no criticism rule? I get that to them it's supposed to be the basis for them to remain objective when doing... whatever they do (and ultimately manifests as treating My Favorite Fap-Fic #63 the way actual academics would treat Ulysses), but did it come from something happening on TVTropes or has it always been there? I can't speak for the history of why they adopted the policies, but it's their general stance between No Such Thing As Notability (not a terrible idea, that all works can potentially be discussed, but without moderation, it's what led to porn works getting creepily detailed trope pages.) I don't know if there's a specific rule for no negativity, but between Complaining About Shows You Don't Like and Tropes Are Tools (i.e., tropes are good) there's a general feeling that you're not allowed to really criticize what other people like. e: quote:We are also not a wiki for bashing things. Once again, we're about celebrating fiction, not showing off how snide and sarcastic we can be. Djeser fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 19:26
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I'm fairly sure there used to be a page "Tropes are not Good", pointing out that just blindly using them without thought lead to bad stories. But, you know, that approached actual criticism and thought so it's gotta go.
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Jan 20, 2014 19:38
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Djeser posted:That story was a nice read and a nice conjunction between how inhumanely humans can treat others and their capacity for kindness. The worst part of it is that the no-notability thing results in nasty little cults like the bronies running roughshod over the entire site, obsessively scribbling pony tropes and pony fanfic and pony fanfic tropes in every single page regardless of actual relevance. They're the worst of the lot, but there are plenty of others, like Warhammer 40k fans and whatever psychotic adherents the latest doorstopper-fanfiction of the week commands.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:00
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MizPiz posted:To get us away from the Fluffy abomination, what's the story behind the no notability, no criticism rule? I get that to them it's supposed to be the basis for them to remain objective when doing... whatever they do (and ultimately manifests as treating My Favorite Fap-Fic #63 the way actual academics would treat Ulysses), but did it come from something happening on TVTropes or has it always been there? It's actually kind of sad. Fast Eddie obviously has enough faith in human nature that he thought that would end up with a happy utopia where everyone lived in peace and harmony and niceness; unfortunately human nature on the Internet's given him a site that catalogues torture porn and lolicon. And he can't admit that.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:11
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Dr Pepper posted:I'm fairly sure there used to be a page "Tropes are not Good", pointing out that just blindly using them without thought lead to bad stories. Nah, it's still there, under "Tropes are Tools". Surprisingly enough, it actually has some decent advice: quote:All tropes can be written badly. This includes tropes that everyone thinks are good, like Magnificent Bastard. A badly written Magnificent Bastard may be done in such a way that everyone else in the story are idiots and generally gives less of an impression of intelligence and more of an impression of cheating or changing the internal rules of the story. Refuge in Audacity has different breaking points for different people. 
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Jan 20, 2014 20:15
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Oxxidation posted:The worst part of it is that the no-notability thing results in nasty little cults like the bronies running roughshod over the entire site, obsessively scribbling pony tropes and pony fanfic and pony fanfic tropes in every single page regardless of actual relevance. They're the worst of the lot, but there are plenty of others, like Warhammer 40k fans and whatever psychotic adherents the latest doorstopper-fanfiction of the week commands. Warhammer 40k fans make for a lot of entertainment on that site. You can be browsing through the examples on any given page and then suddenly, a 7000-word treatise with no line breaks on the deep philosophical underpinnings of Warhams. Sure other stupid fandoms are everyfuckingwhere, but most of them have the decency to restrict their tenuous (sorry, 'averted') entry to a line or two and keep the actual sperging to their own pages, although it may have changed since the last time I looked at it in approximately 2008. Warhammer can't do that for some reason and that amuses me more than it should. They just really want you to know all about their little plastic spacemans 
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Jan 20, 2014 20:22
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Oxxidation posted:The worst part of it is that the no-notability thing results in nasty little cults like the bronies running roughshod over the entire site, obsessively scribbling pony tropes and pony fanfic and pony fanfic tropes in every single page regardless of actual relevance. They're the worst of the lot, but there are plenty of others, like Warhammer 40k fans and whatever psychotic adherents the latest doorstopper-fanfiction of the week commands. And before that, it was people shoehorning in references to Haruhi and Doctor Who (who are totes both the same person, FYI) into every page. They eventually had to give those people their own pages to ruin because it became so prevalent, people were starting to complain about it. Check any of the Wild Mass Guessing pages and you'll likely come across some remnant of it.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:38
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 Jesus, why? Dr Pepper posted:I'm fairly sure there used to be a page "Tropes are not Good", pointing out that just blindly using them without thought lead to bad stories. It was renamed "Tropes Are Tools" (as I found a few pages back when the find-and-replace change screwed up the meaning of some sentence). A giant "Tropes are not bad" section was added to the top explaining that even their "Bad Writing Index" tropes aren't actually bad - so when a programming error makes a video game crash after the first stage, that's actually not a bad thing because "Unwinnable By Mistake" is a ~trope~ so it can't possibly bad. Hell, half their Bad Writing Index "tropes" are literally "Did X but did it badly", but apparently none of those are bad things because ~tropes~. It seems to be aimed at comforting tropers that no, Heart Star Shoujo!! Mecha Breast Nyan or their new "staple tropes together" writing isn't a derivative piece of poo poo because, you know, nothing is truly original and everything "uses tropes". Meanwhile the actual "Tropes are not good" portion has been cut down and pretty much just says "Even a great trope like Magnificent Bastard can theoretically be done badly, and besides, there may even be some good stories out there that get by without any Magnificent Bastards at all.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:39
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MizPiz posted:treating My Favorite Fap-Fic #63 the way actual academics would treat Ulysses
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Jan 20, 2014 20:52
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:Equal parts Sounds good. Maybe with the text "wan die" off to the side, as in the  emoticon? I would chip in  if there is interest, and if someone in this thread has the graphics skills to make the emoticon.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:54
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PurpleButterfly posted:Sounds good. Maybe with the text "wan die" off to the side, as in the I dunno, man. Don't spend money to make an emoticon whose origin is a TVTrope rape/torture article, you know what I'm saying?
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Jan 20, 2014 20:55
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sweeperbravo posted:I dunno, man. Don't spend money to make an emoticon whose origin is a minor derail in the TV Tropes thread.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:58
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sweeperbravo and Sham bam bamina! posted:Sensible advice OK, good points. 
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Jan 20, 2014 21:02
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PurpleButterfly posted:OK, good points. I understood your enthusiasm, I just didn't want to let you go down a regretful path if I could help it.
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Jan 20, 2014 21:09
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Runcible Cat posted:As far as I can tell it's all part of Fast Eddie's hugbox mentality. Telling anyone they're wrong hurts their feelings, elevating any category of media above any other is mean and exclusionary and hurts the feelings of people who like the denigrated stuff - add a dose of What Do Those Ivory-Tower Academics Know Compared to Us Fans, give that state of mind a few years to fester and foom. Or sqlorch. One particular comment on the topic of criticism attributed to Fast Eddie (and I can certainly remember at least one participant on the TV Tropes forum repeating it) which became quite infamous in the previous thread was, "Constructive criticism is saying what's good about a work."
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Jan 20, 2014 21:24
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Warhammer 40k is what broke me in regards to fandoms. Being a stupid teenager, I got obsessively involved with it and star wars fan sites, and it only took me five years to break out of it and realize that arguing over canon or plastic toys was meaningless. I still frequent a few sites where I made friends in the hobby, but I refuse to declare myself part of a fandom anymore. Its no wonder that it inflicted itself on tvtropes so badly. The setting is built on hyperbole and plagiarism, so it fits perfectky with the troper mindset. The worst part is that the gigantic 40k page now is actually far better than what it used to be. Before the cleanup, the introductory paragraph was thousands of words long, no line breaks, and every other sentence linked to a trope page.
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Jan 20, 2014 21:32
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:And before that, it was people shoehorning in references to Haruhi and Doctor Who (who are totes both the same person, FYI) into every page. They eventually had to give those people their own pages to ruin because it became so prevalent, people were starting to complain about it. Check any of the Wild Mass Guessing pages and you'll likely come across some remnant of it. There was also this thing called the "Whateley Universe", which seemed to turn up on every other page. Tried searching to find out what it was, but this was the first Google text I saw: Headscratchers posted:You know what bugs me about the Whateley Universe? The fact that 14 year olds apparently know what they want, sexually. Of course.
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Jan 20, 2014 21:35
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kaleidolia posted:There was also this thing called the "Whateley Universe", which seemed to turn up on every other page. Tried searching to find out what it was, but this was the first Google text I saw: Yeah, I noticed that "Whateley Universe" thing in a lot of TV Tropes articles, too; it's apparently some sort of collaborative story-writing thing in a shared universe. Here are some story synopses - see if you can detect a pattern: quote:Nikki Riley. Georgeous, Magically talented, The very image of a Fairie Princess. What's the problem with that? She's a guy! quote:Jared finally found a way to fight back against his abusive father. Jinn was a projection of his inner self, but why was Jade a girl? And... Was Jared, now calling himself Jade, EVER going to start growing up? quote:Billy ate the brownie his brother offered. Not a good idea. What followed was a wild mess of transformation, kidnapping, escapes, mass destruction, and hiding out. Also, what's a teenaged boy doing having a period?! quote:Trevor James Goodkind has spent his entire life being groomed as a scion of the Goodkind empire. He has devoted his life to Goodkind ideals: responsibility, respect, and protecting the world from mutants. Now he's about to meet the enemy.. and it's him. But turning into a mutant is only his first catastrophe. No one ever said anything about having to wear a bra!
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Jan 20, 2014 21:53
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vaguely posted:Warhammer 40k fans make for a lot of entertainment on that site. You can be browsing through the examples on any given page and then suddenly, a 7000-word treatise with no line breaks on the deep philosophical underpinnings of Warhams. What's funniest is that most of them don't realize that 40k is a my dad fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 22:17
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DaveWoo posted:Yeah, I noticed that "Whateley Universe" thing in a lot of TV Tropes articles, too; it's apparently some sort of collaborative story-writing thing in a shared universe. Apparently there was a dedicated effort a few years back by the, like, ten people in this wacky transformation-fetish superhero roleplay session to smear it across as much of TVTropes as possible. Resulted in a lot of drama, all of which is sadly lost in the bowels of the Internet.
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Jan 20, 2014 22:49
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my dad posted:What's funniest is that most of them don't realize that 40k is a I don't think most tropers understand the essential concept of satire at all. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Satire Check out the wording on some of these. I'd be willing to bet most of them are lifted directly from posts on blogs or critical reviews.
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Jan 20, 2014 23:21
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my dad posted:40k is satire I used to be a huge fan of 40k. Eventually though, after reading about 12 books, I got tired of it. I realized that everything in it is only there to look cool, and nothing else. If you try to take it seriously you have to ignore all the silly poo poo it has just so it can be manlier. Makes for great paintings though, even if they all just look like metal-album covers. The Skeleton King fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 23:41
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I am the M00N posted:Makes for great paintings though, even if they all just look like metal-album covers. Nearly every Bolt Thrower album cover is just space marines shooting stuff. Doesn't stop them from being a fantastic death metal band.
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Jan 20, 2014 23:59
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Darth Walrus posted:Apparently there was a dedicated effort a few years back by the, like, ten people in this wacky transformation-fetish superhero roleplay session to smear it across as much of TVTropes as possible. Resulted in a lot of drama, all of which is sadly lost in the bowels of the Internet. I love the absurd lengths something has to go to in order for TVTropes to actually have a problem with it and want it removed.
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Jan 21, 2014 00:01
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DaveWoo posted:Yeah, I noticed that "Whateley Universe" thing in a lot of TV Tropes articles, too; it's apparently some sort of collaborative story-writing thing in a shared universe.
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Jan 21, 2014 00:08
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sweeperbravo posted:I love the absurd lengths something has to go to in order for TVTropes to actually have a problem with it and want it removed. Google eventually got sick of the rampant sex shenanigans and threatened to end ad partnership if they didn't remove a bunch of things. It's why stuff like Fetish Fuel ended up getting its own wiki somewhere in the shadows of the internet. Obviously it didn't stick ultra well.
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Jan 21, 2014 00:30
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I am the M00N posted:I used to be a huge fan of 40k. Eventually though, after reading about 12 books, I got tired of it. I realized that everything in it is only there to look cool, and nothing else. If you try to take it seriously you have to ignore all the silly poo poo it has just so it can be manlier. I mean it can be pretty fun, but let`s not pretend it`s anything but poor to mediocre dark sci-fi. I think that's the thing tropers don't get actually. You can enjoy something that's still not actually very good. It's quite possible! I enjoy all sorts of things that aren't actually very good in terms of books or movies or video games or whatever. I still enjoy them, I just don't pretend that they're quality, and I don't get why they have such a chip on their shoulder about it.
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Jan 21, 2014 00:32
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Cat Army 
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The Iron Rose posted:I mean it can be pretty fun, but let`s not pretend it`s anything but poor to mediocre dark sci-fi. The best surprise to come out of 40k were the Orks. I've never found a species/race/faction in sci-fi that was so obviously evil, and yet so hilarious and endearing.  I don't care how dumb the setting gets, I'll never stop loving the Orks.
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Jan 21, 2014 00:38
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I think you mean "obliviously" evil. Orks are evil to everyone else, but they're having too much fun.
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Jan 21, 2014 00:55
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