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fivegears4reverse posted:You're overstating Pikmin's success. They barely cleared a million apiece by themselves (and the new play control versions sold SIGNIFICANTLY worse). In case of Pikmin 1 and 2, those games failed to change the GameCube's fortunes whatsoever, and by the time we would have seen Pikmin 3 on the Wii, Nintendo was already ramping up towards the release of the Wii U (and we were having to literally beg NoA to get games localized). That's all fine and well, but my point was not that they need a new game in the series now. It was that we had to wait 9 goddamn years and jumped an entire generation of consoles between Pikmin 2 and 3, and that the guy I quoted wanted a new and innovative IP for Nintendo to make, while the last new and innovative IP they made was just ignored for nearly a decade. Or, in other words, a new and innovative IP is not what Nintendo needs because they have shown themselves incapable of properly handling one. DEEP STATE PLOT fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Cao Ni Ma posted:There was a major breakthrough some time ago and now there are tons of copy cat cards on the market. Its not hard to google. There's a big scandal going on right now in the 3DS piracy / region free scene. The copycats are basically full on clones of the first one. The makers of the first one released a firmware update where if you used this firmware on another cart or modified it in any way it would very badly brick the user's 3DS system. Then it turned out that using region-free patches would also cause a brick. Then users started reporting that using normal, unmodified files were also causing bricks to the point where the original company had to start a returns process. 3DS hackers have picked apart the code and determined that there is a slight chance of a random dead 3DS based on how the code reads the system clock. For all this and pretty much nothing else these days, hit up http://gbatemp.net. Heran Bago fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 15:37
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Cannot Find Server posted:That's all fine and well, but my point was not that they need a new game in the series now. It was that we had to wait 9 goddamn years and jumped an entire generation of consoles between Pikmin 2 and 3, and that the guy I quoted wanted a new and innovative IP for Nintendo to make, while the last new and innovative IP they made was just ignored for nearly a decade. Or, in other words, a new and innovative IP is not what Nintendo needs because they have shown themselves incapable of properly handling one. I don't think they mishandled Pikmin at all, Pikmin just doesn't sell enough to make it worth pursuing with the same fervor that you'd see behind, say, a new Mario platformer, or a new Mario Kart. They gave it a fair shot for the GameCube and ultimately failed to help the system whatsoever. The Wii was already having it's successor being worked on while Pikmin 3 was in development. It's had three games, and has become firmly a part of Nintendo's stable of franchises. It's problem isn't that Nintendo didn't push it, it's that Pikmin is something few people honestly give a poo poo about. It's the same problem that F-Zero and Metroid and hell, even Star Fox have. Sad thing is, Pikmin will probably going to stay neglected outside of cameo appearances for a while yet, because Pikmin 3 shat the bed hard. A dev cycle across two systems since 2008 produced laughable results in the end. Now, if you want to talk about mishandled franchises, Star Fox is definitely the prime example of Nintendo wasting potential. The best game of the entire franchise was the N64 title, which more or less is partly a reboot of the original game, while including elements from the unreleased Star Fox 2 (which by all accounts was basically ready to go, and then was canned). They then made Star Fox Adventures by shoving the cast into a game that was going to probably be cancelled, and it was a bag of poo poo. Then they released Star Fox Assault in that joint effort with Namco, which was a disaster. The DS game was basically poo poo, and they more or less killed it by tossing out the 3DS rerelease of SF64, which didn't do so hot itself. Literally the best games the SF crew have been in since SF64 are the Smash Bros games. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 15:52
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fivegears4reverse posted:They were possibly scared by the reception of the New Play Control versions of the first two games (they sold terribly), but the real kicker is that Miyamoto announced in 2011 that the game was being shifted over to Wii U development. Considering the GamePad integration, it wouldn't surprise me if he just got really excited about the possibilities with the GamePad and was more than happy to leave behind the Wii. Reportedly, they shifted it over because the WiiU's horsepower allowed them to do all sorts of new things (the game is unarguably loving gorgeous). Pikmin 3 was probably in development for god knows how long, since the Wii was on its way out the door they just switched it over. Nintendo's big sellers are Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, and Smash Bros. While pretty much all their other IPs (F-zero, Star Fox, Battalion Wars, Pikmin, etc. etc.) are incredible, in terms of sales they are specs of dust compared to N's big hitters.
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Jan 20, 2014 15:58
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:News to me, got details on this? The name of the team that made the breakthrough is called Gateway, and there are copycats like the R4 Gold 3DS. I don't know what the real impact of piracy on the 3DS will be, but Nintendo can't assume that software sales will continue the way they are once it takes off. It's a cumbersome device to use, but so were the earliest DS flash carts, which often too large to fit in the slot and required an additional GBA card. The Gateway exploit also needs to be started through a DS flash cart, which is provided and can also run DS ROMs like any other. There's a great article on Play4Real that makes fun of their somewhat hypocritical stance on other people copying their work here. fivegears4reverse posted:You're overstating Pikmin's success. They barely cleared a million apiece by themselves (and the new play control versions sold SIGNIFICANTLY worse). In case of Pikmin 1 and 2, those games failed to change the GameCube's fortunes whatsoever, and by the time we would have seen Pikmin 3 on the Wii, Nintendo was already ramping up towards the release of the Wii U (and we were having to literally beg NoA to get games localized). My problem with Nintendo as a console manufacturer is that they need every game to be a guaranteed hit, because it's not good enough for it to make a profit, it also needs people to buy the console for it. They don't need to do this for their handhelds, because there are plenty of other developers who make high quality exclusive games for it. If something doesn't change at Nintendo, then we're pretty close to annualised New Super Mario Bros, Mario Kart, and Wii _ games, since they have the biggest sales and the lowest development costs. Lots of other Japanese developers release niche, hardcore games and still manage to localise them and make a profit, but Atlus doesn't have to prop up a console by themselves. If I'm buying a console for Nintendo games, and Nintendo doesn't make the kind of games I want to play, then I won't enjoy the console. That Fucking Sned fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 16:04
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There was an image some pages back about the IPs Nintendo has created over the last decade or so. Anyone got that?
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Jan 20, 2014 16:07
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Cannot Find Server posted:Pikmin and Pikmin 2 sold well over a million copies each. Sure, it's not a Mario or a Zelda in terms of sales numbers, but it sells well enough that it's weird to me that they don't make more of them. Wikipedia posted:In a developer round table discussion at E3 2008, a new Pikmin title was confirmed to be in development for Wii.[10] At E3 2011, Miyamoto announced that development of the Pikmin game shifted from the Wii to its successor, the Wii U.[11] At E3 2012, Pikmin 3 was formally announced and demonstrated in playable form. SwissCM posted:EDIT: If you mean haptic feedback, the Japanese version of the Dual Analogue had rumble motors in it and that was released in late April '97. Cannot Find Server posted:So yes, I would say that Nintendo did definitely pioneer the use of analog to control 3D games.
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Jan 20, 2014 16:09
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Edmund Honda posted:Only four years from Pikmin 2 to the announcement of a sequel, just a really long development cycle. The rumour was that it was effectively done until they decided to push it over to the Wii U, wasn't it? Not sure how that fits with that decision being public in 2011 and the game not out for launch. Well, remember that Nintendo was seriously unprepared for HD development. Lots of stuff got pushed back for lots of reasons. I imagine also that they had to do a lot of work to port the game over to the new hardware, while also implementing all of the GamePad specific stuff the Wii version would never have had to worry about.
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Jan 20, 2014 16:13
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Edmund Honda posted:That's exactly what I was referring to; the Dual Shock followed the N64's Rumble Pak with a similar timeframe to the Dual Analog following the N64's release. The PS1's Dual Analog (which had rumble motors in Japan) was released the same month that the N64's Rumble Pak was.
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Jan 20, 2014 17:01
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Astro Nut posted:There was an image some pages back about the IPs Nintendo has created over the last decade or so. Anyone got that? Took me ages to find, but here:  I don't understand why the variety of spin-offs in the pic count as new IPs, unless I'm missing what an IP actually is.
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Jan 20, 2014 17:07
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Flayer posted:If Nintendos idea of being innovative included creating a new IP or two they'd be in a lot better position now. It would be a true pleasure to play a new Nintendo game where the height of innovation isn't Mario controlling slightly differently or Mario Kart having a new item. Cannot Find Server posted:Well, the last new IP they created was Pikmin, which I'd argue is one of the best new IPs of the last few generations. Then they decided to do gently caress-all with it for several years. What exactly is a "New IP"? Seems like you want a character mascot in a 3D platforming environment. They have created a ton of new franchises, some of which are better than others. Pikmin came out in 2001, so you're saying that nothing new has been made since then? I've even admitted that I didn't realize that Pushmo was a Nintendo IP until I read about it, I just assumed it was some indy game on the eShop. Problem is that for every Pushmo, we get a handful of lovely games nobody cares about like Dillon's Rolling Western, Steel Diver, Fossil Fighters, and Fling Smash. They definitely try putting a lot of stuff out there, but not everything sticks.
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Jan 20, 2014 17:10
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Wait, Nintendo owns the rights to Xenoblade? I thought that was done by Monolith Software.
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Jan 20, 2014 17:26
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Yes, but Nintendo owns Monolith Soft.
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Jan 20, 2014 17:32
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Suspicious Dish posted:Wait, Nintendo owns the rights to Xenoblade? I thought that was done by Monolith Software. Monolith Soft is now a first-party developer for Nintendo.
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Jan 20, 2014 17:32
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Space Racist posted:Wii 2 Wiiii, surely?
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Jan 20, 2014 17:33
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That image is missing Animal Crossing and Warioware for some reason.
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Jan 20, 2014 17:34
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Quest For Glory II posted:That image is missing Animal Crossing and Warioware for some reason. Animal crossing is missing but i think Warioware was already released on the GBA.
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Jan 20, 2014 17:39
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They were originally for N64 and GBA, respectively.
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Jan 20, 2014 17:39
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That loving Sned posted:My problem with Nintendo as a console manufacturer is that they need every game to be a guaranteed hit, because it's not good enough for it to make a profit, it also needs people to buy the console for it. They don't need to do this for their handhelds, because there are plenty of other developers who make high quality exclusive games for it. The thing is, now that they're in HD development territory, I don't think even their cheap stuff will be all that cheap to develop compared to what it might have cost during previous generations, not until they get their ducks in a row on the development side of things. That's not likely to happen with the Wii U at this rate, because it's hemorrhaging cash unlike any console Nintendo has released before. I think they're more likely to get the games out that they can, and then let the system die quietly afterwards, more so than some folks want to believe. NSMBWii is proof that they can't do those games on a yearly basis, they can't even carry a system at launch. I'm genuinely curious to see how Mario Kart and Donkey Kong will do, though I'm leaning towards more disappointment.
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Jan 20, 2014 17:41
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halwain posted:Animal crossing is missing but i think Warioware was already released on the GBA. I think the problem isn't that Nintendo doesn't come up with new IPs, it's that they don't cultivate them and allow them to grow, I guess.
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Jan 20, 2014 17:42
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People just want good games, that's pretty much it.
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Jan 20, 2014 17:54
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Quest For Glory II posted:They're both IPs released in 2001, they shoulda figured out somewhere to put it. If you include GBA there's also Advance Wars, Golden Sun, and Starfy (did any of those ever reach America? I feel like.. only one game did).
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Jan 20, 2014 17:55
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Quest For Glory II posted:They're both IPs released in 2001, they shoulda figured out somewhere to put it. If you include GBA there's also Advance Wars, Golden Sun, and Starfy (did any of those ever reach America? I feel like.. only one game did). IPs sometimes just don't stick, no matter how much we like them, or how much effort goes into them. Look at F-Zero GX, unarguably one of the GameCube's gems, and it sold miserably. Nintendo even collaborated outside of their own offices to get that game done. It had a huge arcade push, and was part of an attempt to create a multi-media approach to the whole franchise. New videogames on the GBA (which I think one of which used the card reader deal, something that was way more popular in Japan than anywhere else), flagship title on the Cube. I think toys were a thing, connected to the anime they aired. That's a lot of effort to put into an IP that had essentially was remembered for being on the SNES at one point, and then had an N64 title that got overlooked for other games on the system. None of that worked. F-Zero is basically dead in the water. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 17:56
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Cannot Find Server posted:Well, the last new IP they created was Pikmin, which I'd argue is one of the best new IPs of the last few generations. Then they decided to do gently caress-all with it for several years. Assuming GameFreak counts as Nintendo, I think the last IP they created was HarmoKnight last year.
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Jan 20, 2014 18:32
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fivegears4reverse posted:None of that worked. F-Zero is basically dead in the water. It makes me wonder why they launched the Wii with Excite Truck, gave it a sequel, and never put Monster Games on using the exact same control scheme for an F-Zero game. The trick system wouldn't apply to F-Zero, but the turbo boosts, flying through the air, and needing to angle the car to maximize your speed on landing is a lot of what F-Zero is. I thought that even as a lunch title, that game controlled incredibly well using the motion controls for turning.
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Jan 20, 2014 18:43
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People point to the "Wii U" name as being a culprit. While it's a dreadful name, it can't be too major a reason for the issue. Because 3DS has the same problem. Indeed, the Xbox One has got to have the worst and most confusing name of any console ever released. I am incredibly surprised that people seem to think the Wii U name has caused more confusion than the Xbox One name. While the Wii U name might not clue people into realising it's a new console, the name Xbox One one is so bad it can confuse people into thinking it's an old console. Yet they are selling perfectly well. Marketing is no doubt an issue, but it's not all in the name.
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Jan 20, 2014 19:08
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fivegears4reverse posted:People said that about Sega leaving the industry. The market for bass fishing peripherals never recovered  .
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Jan 20, 2014 19:13
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Shakugan posted:People point to the "Wii U" name as being a culprit. While it's a dreadful name, it can't be too major a reason for the issue. Because 3DS has the same problem. Indeed, the Xbox One has got to have the worst and most confusing name of any console ever released. I am incredibly surprised that people seem to think the Wii U name has caused more confusion than the Xbox One name. While the Wii U name might not clue people into realising it's a new console, the name Xbox One one is so bad it can confuse people into thinking it's an old console. Yet they are selling perfectly well. Marketing is no doubt an issue, but it's not all in the name. It's the name combined with the poo poo marketing, really. Microsoft isn't having the same problem because I can't watch TV for more than 5 minutes without being bombarded by "THE BRAND NEW XBOX ONE FROM MICROSOFT OUT NOW" constantly.
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Jan 20, 2014 19:17
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Shakugan posted:People point to the "Wii U" name as being a culprit. While it's a dreadful name, it can't be too major a reason for the issue. Because 3DS has the same problem. Indeed, the Xbox One has got to have the worst and most confusing name of any console ever released. I am incredibly surprised that people seem to think the Wii U name has caused more confusion than the Xbox One name. While the Wii U name might not clue people into realising it's a new console, the name Xbox One one is so bad it can confuse people into thinking it's an old console. Yet they are selling perfectly well. Marketing is no doubt an issue, but it's not all in the name. The Bone has a terrible name, no argument. The difference though is the previous Xbox was the 360 whereas the previous Nintendo is the Wii. The compounding problem is Wii U follows the naming scheme they established with the Wii with things like Wii Fit and Wii Motion+ all doing the Wii - [Attachment]. For consumers who got used to the naming scheme the WiiU sounds exactly like an attachment to the Wii. Fundamentally though, I don't think thats the core of its problems. Price, lack of games, bad architecture, and poor target marketing are much more to blame for the Wii U's flaws. I mean, people learned that Super Nintendo was different than a Nintendo.
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Jan 20, 2014 19:22
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Crowbear posted:It's the name combined with the poo poo marketing, really. I'd love to know how much Microsoft's advertising budget is on that thing. I'm guessing the XBox division could never sustain it on their own without the backing of Microsoft as a whole.
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Jan 20, 2014 19:23
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Astro7x posted:I'd love to know how much Microsoft's advertising budget is on that thing. I'm guessing the XBox division could never sustain it on their own without the backing of Microsoft as a whole. Microsoft as a whole has a roughly 1.2 Billion annual advertising budget. I don't think their 600 million dollar NFL deal* is part of their ad budget so thats another general purpose advertising block they bought. We also know the Kinect launch initially got a 500 million dollar ad push. Granted that was without a multi-year contract and such they established in the interim but its likely a good start point. *Microsoft's home team playing in the Super Bowl the year they sign the deal? CONSPIRACY!
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Jan 20, 2014 19:36
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fivegears4reverse posted:IPs sometimes just don't stick, no matter how much we like them, or how much effort goes into them. Look at F-Zero GX, unarguably one of the GameCube's gems, and it sold miserably. Nintendo even collaborated outside of their own offices to get that game done. It had a huge arcade push, and was part of an attempt to create a multi-media approach to the whole franchise. New videogames on the GBA (which I think one of which used the card reader deal, something that was way more popular in Japan than anywhere else), flagship title on the Cube. I think toys were a thing, connected to the anime they aired. That's a lot of effort to put into an IP that had essentially was remembered for being on the SNES at one point, and then had an N64 title that got overlooked for other games on the system. They could just release an HD version of GX and I'd be happy. Apparently the entirety of AX, the arcade game, is present on the disc, so if they made that content available then there'd be even more reason for F-Zero fans to pick it up. 1080p versions of X and the 64DD expansion with the level creator would be great too, in this unlikely scenario where Nintendo doesn't just release a SNES ROM of Super Mario All-Stars on a disc for the series' 25th anniversary.
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Jan 20, 2014 19:40
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Crowbear posted:It's the name combined with the poo poo marketing, really. I don't think it is just the name plus lovely marketing (obviously they contribute). The big problem is that a Nintendo box just isn't enough to sell a console anymore, and for multiple generations the (justified) perception of Nintendo consoles as just a 1st-party box have been compounding. Gamers were willing to impulse buy the Wii because of the control gimmick, but everyone I know who bought one just had it sitting there doing nothing for 99% of its life. They're not willing to get burned again. At least with the other consoles if you were in a game dry spell you would still be using them to stream media or watch DVDs, but Nintendo hasn't appeared at all interested in going after that single-device entertainment center market. If the only thing your device does is play games, then it better beat the competitors in terms of both game quality and quantity or you're hosed, and Nintendo hasn't been able to even come close to doing that in 20+ years.
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Jan 20, 2014 19:41
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That loving Sned posted:They could just release an HD version of GX and I'd be happy. Apparently the entirety of AX, the arcade game, is present on the disc, so if they made that content available then there'd be even more reason for F-Zero fans to pick it up. Technically all of the AX tracks are unlockable in GX without AR if you are God of F-Zero.
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Jan 20, 2014 19:45
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Papercut posted:I don't think it is just the name plus lovely marketing (obviously they contribute). The big problem is that a Nintendo box just isn't enough to sell a console anymore, and for multiple generations the (justified) perception of Nintendo consoles as just a 1st-party box have been compounding. Gamers were willing to impulse buy the Wii because of the control gimmick, but everyone I know who bought one just had it sitting there doing nothing for 99% of its life. They're not willing to get burned again. At least with the other consoles if you were in a game dry spell you would still be using them to stream media or watch DVDs, but Nintendo hasn't appeared at all interested in going after that single-device entertainment center market. If the only thing your device does is play games, then it better beat the competitors in terms of both game quality and quantity or you're hosed, and Nintendo hasn't been able to even come close to doing that in 20+ years. Oh yeah, I didn't mean to insinuate that was its only problem. The system obvious has a heap of issues but the confusion the name caused initially was worse than it could have been because they refused to advertise the system.
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Jan 20, 2014 19:50
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deadwing posted:Technically all of the AX tracks are unlockable in GX without AR if you are God of F-Zero. Count me out then, I never beat Chapter 9 of story mode. I am jealous of the people that can snake through that level like it's nothing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig1B0doIjTo
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Jan 20, 2014 19:58
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deadwing posted:Technically all of the AX tracks are unlockable in GX without AR if you are God of F-Zero. The best part about the AX tracks is that the computer AI is dumb as rocks on those stages. If you bust your rear end to unlock the tracks, you can unlock the movies for all 42 racers on Master Difficulty just by using the AX trackset as your cup. 
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Jan 20, 2014 20:04
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Astro7x posted:Count me out then, I never beat Chapter 9 of story mode. The tracks were unlocked through the arcade mode play; IIRC you had to beat all four other cups on the hardest difficulty level. The Story mode unlocked parts on the lower difficulties and characters on the hardest.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:04
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Papercut posted:but Nintendo hasn't appeared at all interested in going after that single-device entertainment center market. If the only thing your device does is play games, then it better beat the competitors in terms of both game quality and quantity or you're hosed, and Nintendo hasn't been able to even come close to doing that in 20+ years. Other than lacking a BD drive, what media functionality is the Wii U missing? It has Netflix, Hulu, Youtube, and pretty good internet browser right out of the box and doesn't require a $60 yearly subscription to use it either. It has replaced my 360 for all media related tasks, saves me on a Gold subcription that I never used, and I have a stand-alone BD player for blu rays. Your post comes off no worse than the people who think the Wii U is just a Wii add-on in terms of misinformation.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:06
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Cmdr. Shepard posted:Other than lacking a BD drive, what media functionality is the Wii U missing? It has Netflix, Hulu, Youtube, and pretty good internet browser right out of the box and doesn't require a $60 yearly subscription to use it either. It has replaced my 360 for all media related tasks, saves me on a Gold subcription that I never used, and I have a stand-alone BD player for blu rays. Actually, it does use a Blu-ray drive, just like the Gamecube and Wii used DVD drives. They don't pay the licensing fees to allow it to play films though, but a Wii can be softmodded to play DVDs. It's cheaper than creating a proprietary disc format and factory to produce them.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:14
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