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The Taint Reaper posted:The advertisement lacks games, like it comes off as a Roku Box or something. It doesn't even mention any of the games that came out. And the first XBox spot focused entirely on it's NFL integration and featured zero games too, and I could even make an argument that it looked like it was a football app for the 360. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmD0vPOd5Rk To be fair to Nintendo, that was one in a series of similar ads. But I guess you need to see them to know that. Quest For Glory II posted:I didn't see an ad for any Wii U game that wasn't on Cartoon Network though (it was for Pikmin). I've only seen ads when they're posted in this thread. I've seen a ton of Wii U ads during WWE Raw, which is the top rated cable show for the key demo of adults 18-49. All of The Pitch commercials, Sonic Lost Worlds. and even 3DS ads I've seen during it.
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Jan 21, 2014 01:32
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StevenM posted:He's not comparing replay value, he's saying his interest in the Nintendo games drops off much quicker. quote:I dunno personally I've got pretty much everything on the Wii-U that was deemed worthwhile. The games themselves just really don't hold up that well past the 15 hour mark in many cases, or they're beaten in that same amount of time. That is exactly what he is saying. Judging a game's value entirely by the hour counter is silly and it ignores a number of factors which pad out or lower the game's specific number of hours. (and I love Atlus RPGs so this isn't a slam against those.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 01:35
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khy posted:Really? I think I am completely insane. Or completely out of touch with what nintendo gamers want these days. To be honest I think the only reason games like New Super Mario Bros and Wii Sports have such high sales is because they're pack-in games that come with the consoles, and Nintendo counts them as sales. I suspect that if they counted actual retail-only sales and put them side-by-side other IPs like Zelda, there wouldn't be much of a gap at all.
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Jan 21, 2014 01:39
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Astro7x posted:I've seen a ton of Wii U ads during WWE Raw, which is the top rated cable show for the key demo of adults 18-49. All of The Pitch commercials, Sonic Lost Worlds. and even 3DS ads I've seen during it. Did you forget about Football or are you making things up?
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Jan 21, 2014 01:41
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MUFFlNS posted:To be honest I think the only reason games like New Super Mario Bros and Wii Sports have such high sales is because they're pack-in games that come with the consoles, and Nintendo counts them as sales. I suspect that if they counted actual retail-only sales and put them side-by-side other IPs like Zelda, there wouldn't be much of a gap at all. Seems plausible to me. I hadn't really considered that before. I hope that Nintendo can turn things around for their next console. In the meanwhile, I guess I'll have to wait for Smash or Mario Kart to pick up WiiU. Hope there's a decent bundle! Edit: I'm pretty sure Microsoft has bought out a ton of ads during the NFL games. I don't see any other electronics/software merchant during a football game except Apple and Sonos. Everything else is car ads, restaurant ads, Nike, etc. Morby fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 01:43
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Possibly naive questions: Why is HD development so expensive? Is it inherently expensive or just the way the industry does things? And will it ever get cheaper?
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Jan 21, 2014 01:58
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Lemming posted:How well would that even work? Your ham sausage fingers won't be anywhere near as accurate as a stylus, and your finger/hand will end up obscuring a lot of the screen. They make add-on game pad peripherals for phones. The real question is whether or not they'll catch on.
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Jan 21, 2014 01:59
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Asema posted:Did you forget about Football or are you making things up? Well he did say top rated cable show. Although I'm shocked that WWE is still that popular considering I stopped watching after I turned 13 because I realized how silly it is.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:00
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Cruel and Unusual posted:Possibly naive questions: Possible naive answer: Nintendo has never done it before, so they have to pay for staff that has experience in it, or training would be my guess. Otherwise? I can't think of any reason it'd be more expensive than SD at this point.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:02
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Cruel and Unusual posted:Possibly naive questions: Basically? The time and effort it takes. Assuming you don't go with something deliberately simplified in style like Wind Waker's artstyle, you need to model higher resolution textures on more intricate models, and then make it all successfully render properly, otherwise its becomes very obvious and can throw off the look of the game. So between the extra effort, hardware, coding, etc, it ends up costlier compared to previous graphic scales. It'll go down in time, of course, but crossing the gap and keeping the money straight has been a strain on many companies previously, and now Nintendo is feeling much of the burn.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:03
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ImpAtom posted:That is exactly what he is saying. They're 60 dollar games. If they were sold at a lower price it would be one thing. But they're asking people to plunk down 60 dollars as the default MSRP. Most games like the wonderful 101 are falling to around 20 bucks now on Amazon which is really more reasonable for a game like that. You're also picking from a very limited library on the Wii-U, because once you're done with the games the system will just sit there. People aren't going to spend hundreds of hours on the system unless they really like Monster Hunter. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 02:04
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dundun posted:Well he did say top rated cable show. Although I'm shocked that WWE is still that popular considering I stopped watching after I turned 13 because I realized how silly it is. I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:05
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Asema posted:Did you forget about Football or are you making things up? Well you're correct, when Football is on it usually dominates all other programming, but for all the other weeks in the year it's usually the top rated program in total viewers and 18-49. Football is not on 52 weeks a year.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:09
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Asema posted:Did you forget about Football or are you making things up?
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Jan 21, 2014 02:20
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Astro Nut posted:Basically? The time and effort it takes. Assuming you don't go with something deliberately simplified in style like Wind Waker's artstyle, you need to model higher resolution textures on more intricate models, and then make it all successfully render properly, otherwise its becomes very obvious and can throw off the look of the game. So between the extra effort, hardware, coding, etc, it ends up costlier compared to previous graphic scales. It'll go down in time, of course, but crossing the gap and keeping the money straight has been a strain on many companies previously, and now Nintendo is feeling much of the burn. Also, Nintendo's method of making games involves a lot of iteration and scrapped content to ensure that it's of a high standard all the way through. When you have to throw away assets, development becomes a lot longer and more expensive.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:30
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The Taint Reaper posted:And Atlus doesn't advertise anything ever. I really wish this was true. 
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Jan 21, 2014 02:44
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Must be new york style pizza.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:48
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The Taint Reaper posted:They're 60 dollar games. Are you seriously arguing that games should be priced proportional to their game length? Do you not see what a terrible idea that is? ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 02:51
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The Taint Reaper posted:They're 60 dollar games. Is your only metric for the quality of the game how much it costs and how long you can play it for? I seriously can't remember the last time I saw one of your posts that didn't have anything to do with hours per dollar. A game's monetary value is based on more than how long you can play it for, and attitudes like this are why so many games have worthless padding.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:54
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Kabanaw posted:Is your only metric for the quality of the game how much it costs and how long you can play it for? I seriously can't remember the last time I saw one of your posts that didn't have anything to do with hours per dollar. A game's monetary value is based on more than how long you can play it for, and attitudes like this are why so many games have worthless padding. Adding something like a level editor for some games wouldn't be worthless padding. Especially if the game has a multiplayer mode. I mean replay value certainly figures into game purchases.
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Jan 21, 2014 03:16
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Kabanaw posted:Is your only metric for the quality of the game how much it costs and how long you can play it for? Literally the best game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah4PNFBBfSs&list=PLhlRe8MM60gGtJ8rWJ2re9AY3lXhs4V6K
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Jan 21, 2014 03:23
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The Taint Reaper posted:Adding something like a level editor for some games wouldn't be worthless padding. Especially if the game has a multiplayer mode. I mean replay value certainly figures into game purchases. It is not as easy to make a level editor as to hit the "insert level editor" button. If you are creating a level editor for general public use that functions within the confines of a controller-based environment it requires a lot of testing and work and in general are not practical additions to a game. Something like Little Big Planet is entirely designed around making its level editor accessible to the average person.
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Jan 21, 2014 03:24
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ImpAtom posted:It is not as easy to make a level editor as to hit the "insert level editor" button. If you are creating a level editor for general public use that functions within the confines of a controller-based environment it requires a lot of testing and work and in general are not practical additions to a game. Something like Little Big Planet is entirely designed around making its level editor accessible to the average person. However it's just that the Nintendo first party titles/exclusive are honestly the only possible draw to the system itself. And they've got really nothing to back them up if a game isn't firing on all cylinders. They really need to make the case that the game is worth having in the absence of other 3rd party support. Because it's going to be ages until the next exclusive comes out when the system can't even get ports like Metal Gear Solid 5. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 03:29
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The Taint Reaper posted:However it's just that the Nintendo first party titles/exclusive are honestly the only possible draw to the system itself. And they've got really nothing to back them up if a game isn't firing on all cylinders. They really need to make the case that the game is worth having in the absence of other 3rd party support. Because it's going to be ages until the next exclusive comes out because the system can't even get ports like Metal Gear Solid 5. I have no idea what this has to do with the hour-to-cost ratio. Would it suddenly be okay for there not to be games if all of Nintendo's first part games cost $20?
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Jan 21, 2014 03:32
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ImpAtom posted:I have no idea what this has to do with the hour-to-cost ratio. Would it suddenly be okay for there not to be games if all of Nintendo's first part games cost $20? Cheap games tend to sell more, I mean look at how developers doubles or tripled their revenue over an 8 hour sale on Steam. Having the wii-u be a bargain option to draw people in and a large back catalogue of cheap games on the e-shop(especially since Nintendo exceeds both Sony and Microsoft in the large number of older games) could certainly help it carve a large nitche out for itself.
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Jan 21, 2014 03:35
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The Taint Reaper posted:They're 60 dollar games. 60 dollar games having a stupid cost-to-replay ratio aren't limited to the Wii U, I have to say. It's been brought up in this thread and the other Wii U thread alone, not to mention elsewhere, what the prices of Sega Genesis/Super Nintendo/Game Boy/etc games were like. Even modern systems have a problem with games costing 60 bones and lasting 4 hours. ImpAtom posted:It isn't that easy. You don't sell a game for $1 and suddenly sell enough to turn a profit. Steam sales work because they come after the initial early buys and they are built around the idea of maximizing profit by waiting until the high-end customers have already purchased. Also people are more likely to buy games on sale because human brains are weird. That is why we get huge goofy Steam backlogs for games we'll never play because GOTTA BUY ON SALE. That requires Nintendo games going on sale in the first place, though. First-party titles like Pilotwings Resort and Starfox 64 3D are still £40 on the eShop. StevenM fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 03:36
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The Taint Reaper posted:Cheap games tend to sell more, I mean look at how developers doubles or tripled their revenue over an 8 hour sale on Steam. It isn't that easy. You don't sell a game for $1 and suddenly sell enough to turn a profit. Steam sales work because they come after the initial early buys and they are built around the idea of maximizing profit by waiting until the high-end customers have already purchased. Also people are more likely to buy games on sale because human brains are weird. That is why we get huge goofy Steam backlogs for games we'll never play because GOTTA BUY ON SALE. That isn't to say every $60 game needs to be $60 but "hey, companies make a lot of money during sales" is not the same as "it should be $20 at launch!"
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Jan 21, 2014 03:37
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That Nintendo tends not to emphasize huge budget blockbuster development and graphics could be to its advantage if it adopted a lower price point for many of its games, though. It's possible the Wii U would be more successful if it had a bunch of smaller 5 hour games that were $10-20 (that also use fewer development resources). Then, you could innovate without risking too much, too. I'd be more interested in it as a 2nd console alongside the PS4/XBone in that case, myself, anyway.
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Jan 21, 2014 03:42
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ImpAtom posted:It isn't that easy. You don't sell a game for $1 and suddenly sell enough to turn a profit. Steam sales work because they come after the initial early buys and they are built around the idea of maximizing profit by waiting until the high-end customers have already purchased. Also people are more likely to buy games on sale because human brains are weird. That is why we get huge goofy Steam backlogs for games we'll never play because GOTTA BUY ON SALE. I don't think selling NES/SNES/N64 games for a buck would hurt on the e-shop, since those games already made up their development cost years ago. A game like Mario 3D world probably makes one of the better arguments for a fully fleshed out game for full price out of the entire system's library because that did use a lot of resources. However compare that to New Super Mario bros. Wii-U and NSMB really can't hold a candle to 3D World as far as justifying the full on price for the game. Wonderful 101 and Pikmin never caught on, and the criticism about their gameplay systems did ring true about not being as refined as most. But at a lower price they would probably would have been easier to swallow. Look at Tokyo Jungle for instance, that game suffered many of the same critcisms however it was released at a bargain price. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 03:43
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Yeah Nintendo can't make games any faster and whether the $60 price point is best or not seems to have been decided already by the industry. I think they should mark down their console games sooner (instead of never), but that's not an enormous issue. Their VC pricing is terrible, and for stuff like Wii Sports they could probably cut the price, but regular AAA Mario and Zelda games they can't cut the price on much. Nintendo is also a fairly tiny company. MS and Sony's game divisions are like 15,000 employees apiece, Nintendo has like 6,000 employees, and many of them aren't involved in game making. For reference Capcom has less than 3,000 employees, Konami has about 6,000, and Square Enix like 4,000. EA has about 10,000, Ubisoft about 10,000, and Activision Blizzard about 7,000, all of this not counting various subsidiary game devs they own. icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 03:43
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The Taint Reaper posted:They're 60 dollar games. According to my activity log, I've spent "hundreds of hours" simply between Nintendo Land, Wii Party U, and Game & Wario. Which basically echoes back to what I've always said about the Wii U: if you've got friends to play local co-op with, it's basically a must-have system right now, let alone when Mario Kart and Smash Bros. come out. The problem Nintendo has is basically how to advertise this fact.
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Jan 21, 2014 03:49
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The Taint Reaper posted:I don't think selling NES/SNES/N64 games for a buck would hurt on the e-shop, since those games already made up their development cost years ago. We're talking about $60 games. You know, the things you originally brought up. The Taint Reaper posted:Wonderful 101 and Pikmin never caught on, and the criticism about their gameplay systems did ring true about not being as refined as most. But at a lower price they would probably would have been easier to swallow. Look at Tokyo Jungle for instance, that game suffered many of the same critcisms however it was released at a bargain price. So your argument now is that games should be priced based on after-the-release public reaction to gameplay. And you don't see why this is a bad idea? (As in it literally requires time travel) Even that is ignoring the idea of reducing a price for "not as refined" is ridiculous and unclear. Should Assassin's Creed be cheaper than Arkham City? I mean AssCreed is recycling a bunch of its engine and has more simplistic combat. Diablo 3 should totally be lower priced than Torchlight 2, I mean Torchlight 2 did a much better job with the same gameplay style. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 03:55
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StevenM posted:That requires Nintendo games going on sale in the first place, though. First-party titles like Pilotwings Resort and Starfox 64 3D are still £40 on the eShop. The Taint Reaper posted:I don't think selling NES/SNES/N64 games for a buck would hurt on the e-shop, since those games already made up their development cost years ago. Whenever I see people complain about video game prices it makes me laugh a little bit, because I very rarely buy games at full price anymore thanks to Lightning Drops, Cheap rear end Gamer, and Slick Deals. Pilotwings for $14, Star Fox 64 for $20, Wonderful 101 for $24, Pikmin 3 for $40, Zombie U for $15, Rayman Legends for $25. I got Arkham Origins on release date for $35. Best Buy had eShop Gift Cards for 20% off in December and I loaded up on a bunch of those, combined with the Digital Deluxe promotion is like 30% off. If you have some patience there is no reason to pay MSRP for anything. I've seen NSMBU for $40, 3D World for $50. New Egg has a bunch of pre-order deals where if you need to have it release day they give you $5-$10 off so that you buy through them. But no, there are not typical eShop sales like on Steam, but I've found it easier than ever to get games cheaply more recently than I did during the Gamecube era. My local library has XBO, PS4, Wii U, Vita and 3DS games and lets you rent them for free for 7 days. I have tried so many games and saved myself from buying them. deadwing posted:According to my activity log, I've spent "hundreds of hours" simply between Nintendo Land, Wii Party U, and Game & Wario. Which basically echoes back to what I've always said about the Wii U: if you've got friends to play local co-op with, it's basically a must-have system right now, let alone when Mario Kart and Smash Bros. come out. The problem Nintendo has is basically how to advertise this fact. People are playing games together less and less these days because they can. One of my co-workers was complaining that all his kid does when he comes home from school is jump on the computer and play Minecraft and Skype with his friends. That wasn't even an option when I was a kid Astro7x fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 04:07
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Astro7x posted:Whenever I see people complain about video game prices it makes me laugh a little bit, because I very rarely buy games at full price anymore thanks to Lightning Drops, Cheap rear end Gamer, and Slick Deals. I think I've paid 60 dollars in total combined for every game that Platinum/Clover has made ever. Which is why I really find it hard to justify the 60 dollar price tag in the first place since everything keeps getting discounted to begin with.
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Jan 21, 2014 04:09
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I just wanna point out that Super Mario 64 DS is a launch title for the Nintendo DS, and they both turn 10 this year. The original Mario 64 also turns 18 this year. And it still hasn't dropped to $20 yet 
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Jan 21, 2014 04:10
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Astro7x posted:People are playing games together less and less these days because they can. One of my co-workers was complaining that all his kid does when he comes home from school is jump on the computer and play Minecraft and Skype with his friends. That wasn't even an option when I was a kid Getting drunk with your friends online isn't the same.
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Jan 21, 2014 04:12
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deadwing posted:Getting drunk with your friends online isn't the same. The drinking age is 21 in America, I don't think children are allowed to drink.
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Jan 21, 2014 04:14
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The Taint Reaper posted:The drinking age is 21 in America, I don't think children are allowed to drink. And there's the problem with Nintendo solely marketing to children on Cartoon Network and Wii Fit-playing moms. Local multiplayer on the Wii U is basically the most fun I've ever had playing video games. How do you successfully market that to an older market that spends most of their time playing Call of Duty?
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Jan 21, 2014 04:17
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ohnoitschris posted:I just wanna point out that Super Mario 64 DS is a launch title for the Nintendo DS, and they both turn 10 this year. The original Mario 64 also turns 18 this year. To be fair that is because it's not getting new copies printed but is still in high demand. It actually was lower than that for a while but went up. There are no new copies being printed and so no price drops to be had.
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Jan 21, 2014 04:20
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ohnoitschris posted:I just wanna point out that Super Mario 64 DS is a launch title for the Nintendo DS, and they both turn 10 this year. The original Mario 64 also turns 18 this year. It was $15 in December for a day. Set a price alert and you won't miss it. http://camelcamelcamel.com/Super-Mario-64-DS-Nintendo/product/B0006B0O9U
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Jan 21, 2014 04:22
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