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Jedit posted:Grant Morrison's output is best summed up in his book Supergods. It is a very good history of comic writing right up to the point where his career takes off, at which point it turns into "These famous guys did some stuff. Then I took a bunch of drugs and redefined the genre". That isn't to say he can't write good stuff - I will personally smite anyone who says WE3 or Joe the Barbarian suck - but he is very much better when he isn't allowed to carry on. I've always dug him. I absolutely loved The Filth. Thing's dense and loopy and eventually you got to just role with it, but I found it to be genius on an aeroplane from OKC to NY. I never understood his seeming contempt and dislike for Alan Moore that he expressed in Supergods. It almost came across like cognitive dissonance, his blaming Moore from turning comics from Day Glo to dusky concrete grey. Not only is it not true, his own worked was built on a street the other paved in a way that seems so obvious. How's Saga? How is it really? Should I start reading it? God Of Paradise fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Jan 19, 2014 |
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Jan 19, 2014 13:06
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God Of Paradise posted:
Saga is one of the best books currently being published in both art and writing. Get it.
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Jan 19, 2014 19:40
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Saga is currently one of my favorite books, but they're taking their sweet-rear end time between trades. 
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Jan 19, 2014 21:03
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Saga is excellent and has it's own excellent thread filled with Saga goodness.
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Jan 19, 2014 21:32
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God Of Paradise posted:I absolutely love Garth Ennis. Yes, he is hit and miss, but with stories like Dangerous Habits, Welcome Back Frank, Punisher Born, and Preacher: All In The Family, it's hard to argue that he's a bad writer. After Moore kind of invented the audience for Vertigo style comics, I'd argue that Ennis was the best man they had take over the reigns. I think Ennis is great. He really does capture humanity well, mainly in how fragile and easy to break people are. And I don't mean that in an angsty way, more of a tragic way. I see why some people dislike him, though I think part of that may be a bit of self-loathing as it reminds them of when they were younger and angrier and it brings back uncomfortable memories of "Ugh I was such a dumbass teenager." His Punisher/Fury work is still some of the best writing in the past decade.
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Jan 19, 2014 23:35
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Mister Roboto posted:I see why some people dislike him, though I think part of that may be a bit of self-loathing as it reminds them of when they were younger and angrier and it brings back uncomfortable memories of "Ugh I was such a dumbass teenager." Nah, man, Ellis reminds me of being a dumb teen. Ennis reminds me of the guys in my grade who beat up the skinny kid with Tourette's so bad that he missed a week of school.
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Jan 19, 2014 23:46
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Dude! Ennis shows monstrosities, but don't accuse him of siding with the monsters.
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Jan 20, 2014 00:03
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Brocktoon posted:Saga is currently one of my favorite books, but they're taking their sweet-rear end time between trades. There's a two-three month break after each story arc so Staples can catch up and we get to keep a single, wonderful artist for the entire book. As far as I know, the new trade comes out a week or two the next arc starts in singles so people can catch up.
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Jan 20, 2014 00:34
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Lurdiak posted:Nah, man, Ellis reminds me of being a dumb teen. Ennis reminds me of the guys in my grade who beat up the skinny kid with Tourette's so bad that he missed a week of school. Is anyone able to lay out the case against Warren Ellis clearly? A bunch of people in this thread have been dismissing him casually, as a given, but--while I can see how Ellis could *conceivably* remind one of being an angry teen/young adult, I *can't* see who else in mainstream or "big indie" comics you'd be reading who's that much more mature or that much better at writing. Though maybe I've lucked out in simply not reading many bad Ellis stories. I'm basing this on Transmet, Orbiter, Stormwatch/The Authority, Red, Iron Man Extremis. I did read Endless Wartime and it was pretty uninspired, but mostly because it felt like Ellis was bored. edit: Oh yeah, and Nextwave was pretty fun. edit2: oh MAN, and Planetary. Right. THAT was great. onefish fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 01:31
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Ellis at his best is Morrison without a stick up his rear end. I'll admit I haven't read the majority of his work, but pretty much everything I have read by him I've loved. Supergod, newuniversal, Nextwave, his Thunderbolts run, Doom 2099, Transmetropolitan, etc. He hasn't really done anything super worthwhile as of late, though.
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Jan 20, 2014 02:00
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Ellis is really inconsistent, and he isn't what everyone wants, but he isn't like Millar or Loeb, where folks will think les of you for looking him. Having said that, I like Transmet too, but a lot of it is loud dumb teen. If you think a bowel disruptor gun is some kind of art or subtlety, then yeah, maybe you do have horrible opinions.
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Jan 20, 2014 02:08
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What's wrong with enjoying things that are ridiculous and teenage sometimes?
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Jan 20, 2014 09:11
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God Of Paradise posted:What's wrong with enjoying things that are ridiculous and teenage sometimes? You raise an interesting point, particularly on a forum whose population is rapidly-aging nerds reaching 30+...the amount of crossover with BSS and games threads about how every game was better in 1997 is interesting. I wonder if Ennis ever looks back on his stuff and says that? "I was so young/dumb" etc.?
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Jan 20, 2014 09:27
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onefish posted:Is anyone able to lay out the case against Warren Ellis clearly? A bunch of people in this thread have been dismissing him casually, as a given, but--while I can see how Ellis could *conceivably* remind one of being an angry teen/young adult, I *can't* see who else in mainstream or "big indie" comics you'd be reading who's that much more mature or that much better at writing. Warren Ellis is the guy who after Heath Ledger's untimely death posted a rant to his mailing list about what a oval office Ledger had been to kill himself knowing that his young daughter would find the body. A number of people complained as Ellis hadn't cared to find out that Ledger's daughter wasn't there, and didn't bother waiting for the pathology report to judge it suicide (the verdict was accidental overdose). Ellis's response was not a retraction - instead he claimed that he'd been joking and his fans were too stupid to realise it. Ellis will never again receive a penny of my money. Also, Planetary is the most massively overrated book of all time.
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Jan 20, 2014 11:13
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God Of Paradise posted:What's wrong with enjoying things that are ridiculous and teenage sometimes? Because this is a forum of ultra progressive non-childish adults with only the very best opinions.
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Jan 20, 2014 13:16
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Lurdiak posted:Nah, man, Ellis reminds me of being a dumb teen. Ennis reminds me of the guys in my grade who beat up the skinny kid with Tourette's so bad that he missed a week of school. What the hell? Seriously, dude, is any writer so bad that you have to equate them with poo poo like this? "Man, Ennis is such a bad writer, I'll be he wouldn't feel bad at all about beating up people with speech impediments." Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 15:58
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:What the hell? Seriously, dude, is any writer so bad that you have to equate them with poo poo like this? You do realise that one of the main butts in Preacher was an unpopular skinny kid with a major speech impediment?
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Jan 20, 2014 16:03
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Jedit posted:You do realise that one of the main butts in Preacher was an unpopular skinny kid with a major speech impediment? (1) Ennis clearly had a lot of affection for Arseface as a character and acting like the character was simply a one-note joke once again smacks of skimming Preacher instead of actually reading it (2) equating tasteless humor in a work of fiction with physical assault to the point of hospitalization in real life is incredibly loaded and unfair criticism.
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Jan 20, 2014 16:05
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I don't tend to like Ennis's work as I am a gigantic care bear but, I have gone to his panels and he seems thoughtful and downright kindly as a person.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:17
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Jedit posted:Warren Ellis is the guy who after Heath Ledger's untimely death posted a rant to his mailing list about what a oval office Ledger had been to kill himself knowing that his young daughter would find the body. A number of people complained as Ellis hadn't cared to find out that Ledger's daughter wasn't there, and didn't bother waiting for the pathology report to judge it suicide (the verdict was accidental overdose). Ellis's response was not a retraction - instead he claimed that he'd been joking and his fans were too stupid to realise it. Ellis will never again receive a penny of my money. I find in general talented people to be stuck up egotistical arseholes, and that is why listening to them talk about anything outside of their medium is rather annoying. That being said Planetary is amazing.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:43
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Jedit posted:You do realise that one of the main butts in Preacher was an unpopular skinny kid with a major speech impediment? Who, over the course of the series, lost his abusive dad, became a millionaire, lost it all, became a country-roads vigilante, and eventually found happiness in a small town? He wasn't a butt, he was just a typical Ennis character whose life goes through periods of sucking and sucking even more.
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Jan 20, 2014 22:50
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Mister Roboto posted:Who, over the course of the series, lost his abusive dad, became a millionaire, lost it all, became a country-roads vigilante, and eventually found happiness in a small town? No, he was a butt. He's introduced as the punchline of a joke, when Hugo Root kills himself there's a punchline, when he shows up as the motorcycle vigilante it's mid-joke and he acts like a joke, when he's taken to New Orleans he's the butt of a joke about shagging with a bag over his head, his entire pop career is an endless joke about his naivete and stupidity, and when he finishes up in Salvation it's another joke. Then you get his backstory in the side issue, and he's pretty much painted as someone who is a loser because they don't want to fit in.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:27
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:What the hell? Seriously, dude, is any writer so bad that you have to equate them with poo poo like this? I was referring to their work's respective tones, not the content of their characters. Ennis is a mean-rear end writer.
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Jan 21, 2014 04:39
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Jedit posted:Then you get his backstory in the side issue, and he's pretty much painted as someone who is a loser because they don't want to fit in. ...if that's what you get out of a story about a kid who is emotionally and physically abused his whole life until he's driven to suicide, I don't know what to tell you. Lurdiak posted:I was referring to their work's respective tones, not the content of their characters. Ennis is a mean-rear end writer. Ah, well in that sense I agree with you, although it still seems to me like a weirdly loaded way to put it.
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Jan 21, 2014 04:54
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:...if that's what you get out of a story about a kid who is emotionally and physically abused his whole life until he's driven to suicide, I don't know what to tell you. Some people are deliberately misinterpreting things to paint their hated writers into terrible people. At this rate people will say they can tell from the writing of Ennis/Ellis/Moore that they run over kids (orphans (with terminal diseases) ) with their car while laughing.
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Jan 21, 2014 05:03
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:...if that's what you get out of a story about a kid who is emotionally and physically abused his whole life until he's driven to suicide, I don't know what to tell you. Read the scene after he shot himself and Pube's sister comes to visit him in the hospital. It's pure victim blaming.
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Jan 21, 2014 11:26
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onefish posted:Is anyone able to lay out the case against Warren Ellis clearly? The major case against the man is this: you want to give the man some free reign because he can come up with excellent ideas, but he either had no filter and developed one later, or needs one (jury is still out on where to put the blame for Ruins, and his first novel was atrocious). Meanwhile, he's got a massive trail of unfinished works in his wake, corporate and creator-owned alike, because he just... gets bored, and wanders on to something else. (The "my hard drive broke" excuse only works so many times before you go "BUY A BACKUP".) Getting excited for a Warren Ellis anything at this point is basically a game of tempered expectations. Pray that it's a miniseries and doesn't fly off the rails, or, if you're real patient, wait and see if it ever hits trades.
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Jan 21, 2014 12:21
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Huge Unwritten sale on Comixology. I assume that book is good, since it's the pretty much only Vertigo title people still talk about in this thread? Should I get it even if I think Harry Potter is a bunch of horseshit?
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Jan 21, 2014 13:01
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Hakkesshu posted:Huge Unwritten sale on Comixology. I assume that book is good, since it's the pretty much only Vertigo title people still talk about in this thread? Should I get it even if I think Harry Potter is a bunch of horseshit? If you think Harry Potter is a bunch of horseshit you should buy two copies.
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Jan 21, 2014 13:08
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For real. I enjoyed Harry Potter immensely and love Unwritten more.
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Jan 21, 2014 13:47
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Jedit posted:Read the scene after he shot himself and Pube's sister comes to visit him in the hospital. It's pure victim blaming. A grieving fictional character refusing to accept or condone suicide is not the same thing as victim blaming, and with the rest of the issue Ennis gives us plenty of reason to empathize with him an understand why he did it, but like I said: if that's what you took away from that comic, I really don't know what to tell you.
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Jan 21, 2014 14:57
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Hakkesshu posted:Huge Unwritten sale on Comixology. I assume that book is good, since it's the pretty much only Vertigo title people still talk about in this thread? Should I get it even if I think Harry Potter is a bunch of horseshit? Unwritten is a book that can appeal to those who love Harry Potter or who hate Harry Potter. Unwritten actually is a book that can appeal to anyone because it is awesome.
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Jan 21, 2014 22:37
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Hakkesshu posted:Huge Unwritten sale on Comixology. I assume that book is good, since it's the pretty much only Vertigo title people still talk about in this thread? Should I get it even if I think Harry Potter is a bunch of horseshit? If the sale includes the recent Fables crossover, skip those issues.
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Jan 21, 2014 23:03
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I realize how redundant this always sounds but drat, Unwritten Apocalypse #1. That was one big hefty helping of 
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Jan 24, 2014 18:14
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:(1) Ennis clearly had a lot of affection for Arseface as a character and acting like the character was simply a one-note joke once again smacks of skimming Preacher instead of actually reading it (2) equating tasteless humor in a work of fiction with physical assault to the point of hospitalization in real life is incredibly loaded and unfair criticism. Arseface is the only character who just gets a happy ending without having to confront how awful and lovely life is.Everyone else has to face the fact that at least some of their poo poo is their own making, Arseface just kinda blunders onward as the physical embodiment of ignorance being bliss despite life making GBS threads on him nonstop from the first arc.
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Jan 24, 2014 18:22
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I grabbed all of The Unwritten from that comixology sale and have been reading through it but I feel like it's really dense and full of neat literary references I'm missing. Is there like a blog or something that covers little things about the series I might have missed?
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Jan 24, 2014 18:45
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Len posted:I grabbed all of The Unwritten from that comixology sale and have been reading through it but I feel like it's really dense and full of neat literary references I'm missing. Is there like a blog or something that covers little things about the series I might have missed? Yes, it's called a Masters in English. You don't need to get all the references to understand the story, though, and in some cases it will actually spoil things (the obvious one being that Lizzie Hexam is not what she seems).
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Jan 25, 2014 14:42
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Shrdlu gets better right?  Edit: I'm still holding onto the hope he gets better. Is the Fables crossover as bad as I hear it is? I just got to it. Len fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 02:27
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It's pointless. But you should just read the last issue of the crossover because the way it ends is great.
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Jan 26, 2014 03:38
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Kull the Conqueror posted:It's pointless. But you should just read the last issue of the crossover because the way it ends is great. Man. Fables got WEIRD since I stopped reading.
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Jan 26, 2014 04:42
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