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caberham posted:DON'T be that angry bitter drunkard who just wastes his savings away at the bar. I don't like to mention names but there are a few in the forum who are/were like that. Blaming their bad decisions/life choices on being in ____________ country instead of owning up to themselves. We all know you're talking about me at Boxing Cat, man. 
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Jan 22, 2014 05:52
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Update: Went to see a lawyer. It went well, the lawyers seemed to think that the contract itself was actually illegal, the way I was treated (threatened with termination if I refused overtime) was good grounds. They want me to go back tomorrow to talk to their labor specialist. The lawyers at the firm said I had a pretty good chance to get a release in exchange for dropping litigation, if I so wanted to threaten such a thing. I'm...more optimistic now. My boss sent me a text through one of her lackeys, saying that the school has fired me for not being in today. But that my boss would cancel my visa in one week. Which I assume actually means my RP. I *think* this gives me enough leeway to lawyer up and maybe try to intimidate them into letting me go. Tomorrow when I see the specialist lawyer I'll decide whether to try and stay and fight or if I leave and return. Thanks, goons.
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Jan 22, 2014 05:53
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Best of luck Cecil!BadAstronaut posted:We all know you're talking about me at Boxing Cat, man. Hell no. Not even one bit. gently caress the haters, I'm super how well adjusted you actually are in Shanghai.
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Jan 22, 2014 05:54
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I'm just kidding, of course  Sounds positive Cecil! Best of luck, goon.
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Jan 22, 2014 05:55
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Ceciltron posted:
YAY! Good work, Cecil. Please please please keep us updated.
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Jan 22, 2014 05:57
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Cecil, I am well impressed. Nice one.
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Jan 22, 2014 06:07
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Out of interest, how much is the lawyer setting you back?
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Jan 22, 2014 06:19
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simplefish posted:Out of interest, how much is the lawyer setting you back? I too would like to know this. Also, how big/small an operation they are, etc.
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Jan 22, 2014 06:28
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The lawyer gave me two options: If we go about this without any kind of cash settlement, it'll be 3000 RMB. If we try and get money out of them for breaking the law and whatnot, then they will take a cut/have their fees covered. Whether or not they take the case will be decided tomorrow. If they don't, I think i'll have to take an L-visa out and go home after SFEST. On the plus side, I can probably get a lot of the paperwork for a new Z-Visa started here. edit: size wise, Joy Language schools are franchises. She owns 3 branches. There's definitely not a huge powerful system at work here. Just a businesswoman who straight up told me that my contract didn't matter. Ceciltron fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 06:37
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Ceciltron posted:The lawyer gave me two options: If we go about this without any kind of cash settlement, it'll be 3000 RMB. If we try and get money out of them for breaking the law and whatnot, then they will take a cut/have their fees covered. Once it's all settled and you're out of danger, if there's no agreement otherwise, post on some public ESL forums about this and name names. I personally cost my former employer 2 hires that I know about.
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Jan 22, 2014 06:53
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Remember when I said a long time ago that he should just let it slide? I stand by that untaken advice.
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Jan 22, 2014 06:53
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Why? This way he's going to get out of his bad situation for a few K RMB, instead of being stuck there for another 9 months or whatever.Ceciltron posted:The lawyers at the firm said I had a pretty good chance to get a release in exchange for dropping litigation, if I so wanted to threaten such a thing. I'm...more optimistic now. I don't know how far you want to take it or how good the lawyers think your case is, but I would consider them just doing this and getting a release letter a success. If they don't take the case will they still send a letter threatening legal action to try and get you released? Because it doesn't need to go all the way to litigation but you will need a release letter if you want to do this: Ceciltron posted:On the plus side, I can probably get a lot of the paperwork for a new Z-Visa started here.
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Jan 22, 2014 07:01
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I think in the best case you'd be dealing with the legal stuff before SHTF, but I can get standing up for your girlfriend and not backing down. TEFL Blacklist is a good site, because it gets read. One of my former employers is on there (not the one I posted about here) and I know the guy that posted it. He's a total dickhead, and a lot is overstated or only borderline true, but they did screw me on the overtime a bit. He ran away one afternoon without so much as a note. Just cleared out his room and disappeared. Point is, it sometimes gets brought up when I apply for a job. Them: "So, what was it like working at xxxx?" Me: "Well it was okay, sometimes there were extra hours at short notice but overall it was a good experience and I learnt a lot from it." Them: "Really? I've read some pretty damning stuff about them online..." and then we have the whole discussion about the review by that teacher.
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Jan 22, 2014 07:02
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caberham posted:If you are patient enough peach airlines is the budget carrier direct from Osaka or Tokyo to Hong Kong. Cheaper proper airline is China Eastern but that means a lay over in Shanghai. The lay over is usually 2 to 24 hours long. A longer lay over means time for you to head out to the city or meet some goons for a beer. What do you mean by "patient enough"? A three hour flight is nothing, so I don't really care too much about comfort. I get scrunched up worse for longer on car rides all the time. I'll probably be flying out of Osaka, since that's where my base of operations will be for the trip there, and Peach is showing around 22,000 yen for a round trip in August. What is a "good" fare for travel between HK and Japan during summertime? What are housing prices like in HK? I'm gonna be staying in business hotel in Osaka that's like 200 bux for ten days, and that is totally my kind of place. Is there a chance of finding similarly cheap lodging in HK? I didn't originally plan to visit, but my boyfriend said he wanted to go to China and I didn't so we compromised with Hong Kong. So I've gotta do a bunch of research to see what's going on with this place! Will five days be a good first trip, or should I extend my overall vacation to make it ten days?
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Jan 22, 2014 07:06
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caberham posted:So New Coke what do you do? I'm an English teacher. I asked mostly out of curiousity towards Fearcotton's story specifically; there are a number of reasons why I don't really want to half rear end my job, even if I could get away with it.
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Jan 22, 2014 07:20
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New Coke posted:I'm an English teacher. Basically don't drink too much and sleep around--you'll eventually get fired. There IS a kind of clear double standard when you're a White Lady Teacher; you can't be at the bars everyday drinking like guys, because it's "unseemly" and you'll get reported eventually by people in the area. edit: sorry I'll expand on this more. SO there used to be two coworkers, Sally and Rich*. I am not sure if either are still alive, but I hope things worked out for them. Anyway, both were heavy partiers/drinkers/meet-people-on-beijinger-bring-em-home-for-sex people, and were pretty vocal about their activities (even with Chinese coworkers, who were not a party crowd). When you're living in faculty housing there is a curfew. And guards (normally asleep, but you still have to have them buzz you in). So when you come home drunk at 4am with your hookup the guards notice. They will then sling shade your way, among themselves and--if you prove to be a habitual irritant--with your bosses. They will especially do this if you are a chick. My manager/FAO person knew what I wore to the gym, if I went on a coffee run at midnight, and if I had a party--so they HAD to have known about them. Most contracts have a morality clause, which is basically a screw-you clause in case you do something else to bother them. Rich would drunk-text begging me to cover lessons; Sally was consistently late and scatterbrained. As time went on they both started drinking way, way too much--but Rich still managed to sober up before classes, or found replacements. As he was paid by-the-class I honestly don't know how he supported himself, but since the students were happy the school was happy. Sally didn't--she just wouldn't show up for days, and when she did she was a disorganized mess. Finally she started getting hostile about how everybody clearly hated her/didn't appreciate her teaching methods, which yes were largely movies. And all of a sudden the school was pissed about teacher morality and got a lot of parent complaints about the "promiscuity" and the "indecency" of it's teachers. Sally got fired for a laundry list of violations (all technically valid, only half of which really effected her ability to be a good teacher) and went nuclear; Rich saw the writing on the wall and quietly arranged to get out of his contract early and left. FearCotton fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 07:29
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Oh cool Coke, and where abouts are you based in?bobula posted:What do you mean by "patient enough"? Sorry I was typing with my phone. But then again, I tend to ramble on when I post. I mean patient enough for super duper savers. quote:I'll probably be flying out of Osaka, since that's where my base of operations will be for the trip there, and Peach is showing around 22,000 yen for a round trip in August. 22,000 yen round trip from Osaka to Hong Kong is as cheap as you can go. Unless there's some crazy special fare. Just remember that Baggage charge is extra on these Low Cost Carriers. But being in Osaka, you are in luck. Air Asia has an all in single leg for 11,000 Yen + tax each way from Osaka to Kuala Lumpur. quote:What is a "good" fare for travel between HK and Japan during summertime? What are housing prices like in HK? I'm gonna be staying in business hotel in Osaka that's like 200 bux for ten days, and that is totally my kind of place. Is there a chance of finding similarly cheap lodging in HK? What kind of business hotel are you staying in Osaka for 200 bux for ten days? Holy poo poo that's dirt cheap. I kind of expect to pay 80/day even if I go to the more budget "Washington Hotel". quote:I didn't originally plan to visit, but my boyfriend said he wanted to go to China and I didn't so we compromised with Hong Kong. So I've gotta do a bunch of research to see what's going on with this place! Will five days be a good first trip, or should I extend my overall vacation to make it ten days? 5 days is more than fine for a short trip. Really though, it depends on what you like. HK is super condense with big city stuff, history museum, lots of food. But being on the coast and ultra dense, you can easily just take a ferry to the out lying islands and go camping or go on a bajillion pristine hike. The longest continuous trail is the Maclehose (my hero  ) Trail. It's a 100km long. I have written a HK guide, check the Opening Post.There's always some HK local goon you can ask for help/info. If you can buy me a box of these http://www.tokyobanana.jp/products/banana.html at Kansai airport that would be super cool.
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Jan 22, 2014 07:44
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I am a well-meaning but pretty terrible HK host/tourguide.
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Jan 22, 2014 07:48
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Arakan posted:Why? This way he's going to get out of his bad situation for a few K RMB, instead of being stuck there for another 9 months or whatever. Yes because that's exactly what's going to happen.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:10
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bad day posted:Remember when I said a long time ago that he should just let it slide? I stand by that untaken advice. I don't know how this is going to end but I also am on the side of this. I wish Cecil luck but when it comes to beating a Chinese businessperson in China in th legal system, I'm not holding my breath. Getting fired today for not showing up may have been the nail in that coffin.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:20
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goldboilermark posted:I don't know how this is going to end but I also am on the side of this. I wish Cecil luck but when it comes to beating a Chinese businessperson in China in th legal system, I'm not holding my breath. Getting fired today for not showing up may have been the nail in that coffin. Don't get me wrong, I'm not holding my breath either. This is a last ditch effort. I can, after all, just leave. Though I couldn't have let it slide. The work environment was killing me and there's no telling what my boss would have said/done *anyway*. Letting it slide meant going for another 9 months of unpaid overtime, constant schedule changes and bullying from management.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:32
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caberham posted:Oh cool Coke, and where abouts are you based in? I'm in Shijiazhuang. Yeah, it's a really tough landscape and so goddamn dirty, but I'm having a good time. The realest China Experience. quote:It's nice to be professionally certified, it brings good job security and pride in your work. But if you want to be some professional travel photographer, writer, a la Peter Hessler I think that's pretty cool too. Before I came here I taught English in Canada, to adult immigrants. It was, in many was, the polar opposite of teaching in Asia. Immigrants are extremely motivated, classes are small and well equipped, a lot of opportunities for professional development are available, and standards are very high. I don't feel like the teaching environment here is all that great in comparison, but I do want to improve my teaching and I don't want to just waste a year here pissing around at my job doing the bare minimum.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:36
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When I was an English teacher in Hangzhou my school fired two teachers. One was a dude who was fine his first month or so then kind of went down some dark road of drinking heavily 7 nights a week. He missed one Saturday without calling and was terminated that Sunday when he showed up. The other was a woman who was actually hired to replace that first guy was found out pretty quickly to just be texting on her phone for most of the class and not doing much of anything even interacting with the students. She lasted less than a month, it might have only been a week or two. Our DOS was big on sitting in on people's classes from time to time, mainly to give advice on what they could do to improve/steal good ideas they had and share them with everyone and even though he told her he'd be popping in to classes of her's she did something like this, so she wasn't the brightest. My school was kind of big in Hangzhou and had a good reputation for mainly our Japanese and Math departments, so our boss really didn't mind firing people. We also had some crazy connection at the visa office and could get a new hire an RP in pretty much no time, which helped them be a bit flexible in this. That said, if they liked you they wanted you to stay. I left to go to grad school, but I was given a raise my second year and offered another raise when that 6 month contract (I had already been planning on going to grad school ahead of time) was coming to an end. I had already been accepted to a program and stuff so there was no chance, but it was neat to see how much they wanted me to stay. We were also given bonuses based on student and parent evaluations of us. I got a decent hong bao the two years I was there as a result of this. Most teachers stayed there for 2-3 years because of stuff like this. It was a private school, but one of the better ones I think that are out there. The DOS that was there when I was there was a big part of it, though, so it may have gone downhill when he left a little while after I did. Also wow Chinese lawyers are cheap. A friend of mine recently did a 2 week shadowing thing over Christmas break at a big law firm here while visiting her grandparents in China, she said they basically did nothing but smoke all day. She said it was basically mad men but no one was handsome.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:39
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New Coke posted:I don't feel like the teaching environment here is all that great in comparison, but I do want to improve my teaching and I don't want to just waste a year here pissing around at my job doing the bare minimum. Exactly! If you're going to continue teaching use this time to perfect your ESL work and be sure to keep all of your plans/materials. But if you do stay in the same place for a while, you can change the teaching environment in your own little corner--look at the English teacher's Lord o' Cardigans, Sir Guestbob! (seriously I am so impressed with his professional development; Wonton's too but she doesn't post much).
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Jan 22, 2014 08:41
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Ceciltron posted:Update: Went to see a lawyer. Also quickly the contract can not be illegal. It is first filed with the government when you are applying for your Z visa. If it were illegal you wouldn't have received a Z visa. So I have no idea what that means. Good luck.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:41
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I'm guessing that his actual work as required by his boss breaks the terms dictated by his contract as filed.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:43
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goldboilermark posted:Also quickly the contract can not be illegal. It is first filed with the government when you are applying for your Z visa. If it were illegal you wouldn't have received a Z visa. So I have no idea what that means. The answer is simple: The contract is in English. No one at any of the visa bureaus read it, obviously. Anyway, I have to wait till tomorrow to find out what the gently caress happens next. simplefish posted:I'm guessing that his actual work as required by his boss breaks the terms dictated by his contract as filed. They also filed a different contract to get my visa than the one they made me sign when I arrived. The differences between the two are minor but it's still something amiss.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:48
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goldboilermark posted:Also quickly the contract can not be illegal. It is first filed with the government when you are applying for your Z visa. If it were illegal you wouldn't have received a Z visa. So I have no idea what that means. This would imply that the people at the visa office are taking the time to cross check every applicants' contract with all written labor laws. Ceciltron posted:They also filed a different contract to get my visa than the one they made me sign when I arrived. The differences between the two are minor but it's still something amiss. Well yea they need a Chinese one to submit. If you didn't sign a Chinese copy of your contract pretty sure you didn't actually sign a contract that was submitted for your visa.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:50
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Ceciltron posted:The answer is simple: The contract is in English. No one at any of the visa bureaus read it, obviously. Anyway, I have to wait till tomorrow to find out what the gently caress happens next. Your contract is entirely in English? That's suspicious. I've never seen one here that isn't dual language. If there's a Chinese version floating around, it could have significant differences, and even stipulate that in the event of a dispute between the versions, the Chinese text takes precedence. Just something to consider.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:50
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Remember Cecil, never stop posting. If you can redact names and just post screen shots or whatever that would be amazing. Teaching immigrants at a Canadian institution New Coke? Wow that's interesting. Besides CHINA EXPERIENCE  , what is keeping you from moving down to the southern pastures of goon paradise?FearCotton posted:(seriously I am so impressed with his professional development; Wonton's too but she doesn't post much). That's because she's actually working unlike all of us 
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Jan 22, 2014 09:03
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blinkyzero posted:Your contract is entirely in English? That's suspicious. I've never seen one here that isn't dual language. If there's a Chinese version floating around, it could have significant differences, and even stipulate that in the event of a dispute between the versions, the Chinese text takes precedence. Just something to consider. The contract says at the end "This contract is a duplicate. Each party holds one with equal legal effect."
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Jan 22, 2014 09:07
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blinkyzero posted:Your contract is entirely in English? That's suspicious. I've never seen one here that isn't dual language. If there's a Chinese version floating around, it could have significant differences, and even stipulate that in the event of a dispute between the versions, the Chinese text takes precedence. Just something to consider. Yeah there's a Chinese version he never saw. It would be impossible to get a Z visa without one. All contracts should be dual language.
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Jan 22, 2014 09:37
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If he didn't sign the Chinese version then how can it be legal?
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Jan 22, 2014 09:45
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synertia posted:If he didn't sign the Chinese version then how can it be legal? Yeah, I'm wondering that too. Our contracts are dual language so it wasn't an issue, but I'm not sure if you can only sign an English contract and then have it mean much within the legal system. I'd suspect not, but who knows.
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Jan 22, 2014 09:49
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My first contract almost 4 years ago was dual language with a clause saying the Chinese version takes precedence if there are differences. My next contract was Chinese only. My latest contract, signed in mid-October, was English only with a clause saying "This contract is provided in English and Chinese. In the event of a conflict between versions, the Chinese version takes precedence." I asked to see the Chinese version and they said "there is no Chinese version." So I asked what the meaning of that clause was and they said "It doesn't mean anything." So I asked to remove the clause before I signed it, and the HR girl went to the Director of HR who told me they can't remove the clause, but it's literally meaningless and there is no Chinese version, but if I want a copy of the Chinese version I can sign that one too, but it's not necessary and they'll only file the English one with the government. I hope this clears some things up!
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Jan 22, 2014 09:59
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FearCotton posted:Exactly! If you're going to continue teaching use this time to perfect your ESL work and be sure to keep all of your plans/materials. But if you do stay in the same place for a while, you can change the teaching environment in your own little corner--look at the English teacher's Lord o' Cardigans, Sir Guestbob! (seriously I am so impressed with his professional development; Wonton's too but she doesn't post much). Yeah, Guestbob's posts are honestly really inspiring. I'm definitely not going to hang around in Shijiazhuang after this contract, but just in terms of setting your own standards and constantly trying to evaluate and improve yourself. caberham posted:
Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Depending on the type of school, there's a pretty incredible diversity in the kinds of students you get - lots of Chinese international students much like the people China goons are used to, but also everything from Saudi plutocrats to Somali refugees with a third grade education. quote:Besides CHINA EXPERIENCE Mostly my contract. I asked earlier in the thread how to go about quitting my job, which judging by Ceciltron's ordeal is very difficult and/or expensive, so I'm probably going to stick it out unless I have to deal with some extreme bullshit like he has. My school has treated me well enough, aside from chronically late pay, and I'm happy enough in Shijiazhuang, even though I know I'm aware I could do better. If I stay another year I would prefer to live in the South for sure. Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Chengdu all seem like really interesting, relatively clean cities. Hong Kong would be pretty cool, too, I'm not sure if my qualifications are up to par (1 year working with adults part time, 1 year in a high school in Shijiazhuang, a B.A. and a CTESL certificate), plus I've been studying Mandarin pretty diligently and I would hate to have to start over with Cantonese + traditional characters. Really, though, what I'm leaning towards right now is return to Canada next summer and studying something that could provide a more stable career. I'm leaning towards comp sci. I do really enjoy living here, though, so I think my ideal situation would be returning to China to work at a real job.
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Jan 22, 2014 10:03
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Shanghai and Chengdu aren't in the South
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Jan 22, 2014 10:05
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I swear that I've heard Chinese people refer to Shanghai as "the south." W/e
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Jan 22, 2014 10:07
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It may surprise you, but sometimes Chinese people are wrong about facts about China.
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Jan 22, 2014 10:10
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New Coke posted:I swear that I've heard Chinese people refer to Shanghai as "the south." W/e Pretty much everyone I knew at the university in Beijing referred to Shanghai (and Yuyao, where we live now -- right next door to Shanghai) as "the south" or "southern." It's really more eastern, of course, but from the perspective of Beijingers it's likely not much of a difference.
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Jan 22, 2014 10:13
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