p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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abraham linksys: Sep 6, 2010

coffeetable posted:

the mistakes you make in structuring your app are going to dwarf the effects of any suboptimal choice of technology

there is only one exception to this, and it is mongodb

mongodb is the only technology choice so bad you might as well hire a few extra engineers so you'll have enough manpower for the inevitable emergency migration off of it

# ? Jan 23, 2014 02:17

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 14:36

more like dICK: Feb 15, 2010; This is inevitable.

MononcQc posted:

I'm looking for a new avatar (mine is over a year outdated) and have totally 0 ideas of what to pick that would fit PL poo poo so I am turning to this thread

I'm guessing product placement may work but eeeh

Any frame from "Erlang The Movie"

# ? Jan 23, 2014 02:18

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

make an av where the squid is answering the telephone

title text: "I believe I did, Bob"

# ? Jan 23, 2014 02:46

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Pollyanna posted:

how is that, im thinking of making my job app tracker in ko

does it play well with an sql database? or should I use json instead

well for this project I wasn't allowed to generate any pages on the server, so its all static html and js w/ a rest api returning json. It works very well tho. I defined a bunch of models w/ default values for fields and then when the page is loaded knockout binds the model to the page and then theres an ajax call to get the real data from the server. then I stick the data into the knockout mapper which auto maps the json data into the model fields. when the fields are updated knockout detects it and updates the values on the page.

if you're generating the pages server side you probably don't need it unless you want to update parts of the page independently in which case ur still doing json.

you're either gonna generate the json or the page content from ur model ur getting out of sql either way.

# ? Jan 23, 2014 03:31

RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS: Dec 21, 2010

coffeetable posted:

good on you for giving authors a buck through safari instead of exploiting sites like library genesis!

don't thank me, thank my employer.

# ? Jan 23, 2014 04:20

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

biochemist posted:

anyone working on this?

https://stripe-ctf.com/account

i don't know poo poo about data structures so i'm hopeless

I'm probably missing some better solution but for the first one looking up sets sounds simple enough.

MononcQc posted:

I'm looking for a new avatar (mine is over a year outdated) and have totally 0 ideas of what to pick that would fit PL poo poo so I am turning to this thread

I'm guessing product placement may work but eeeh

just wanna say that I showed lyse to a friend and he was like "oh man I know this is rad just by looking at this dude's drawings" :3:

# ? Jan 23, 2014 04:39

Common Coder: Jul 25, 2012

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

i like the cover because i would want to shoot darts at the eyes of people who own this book

# ? Jan 23, 2014 04:44

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

MononcQc posted:

I'm looking for a new avatar (mine is over a year outdated) and have totally 0 ideas of what to pick that would fit PL poo poo so I am turning to this thread

forget PLs use this

# ? Jan 23, 2014 05:11

tacodaemon: Nov 27, 2006

it might not be pl specific but this is the finest of all technology-related images

e: oh wait i forgot the license youll have to use as your custom title

Copyright (C) 1999, Free Software Foundation, Inc. Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this image under the terms either:

the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version, or
the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with the no Invariant Sections, with no Front-Cover Texts and with no Back-Cover Texts.

These images are distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details.

You can find a copy of the GNU General Public License and the GNU Free Documentation License via the preceding links. If you have trouble downloading it, write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA.

tacodaemon fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jan 23, 2014

# ? Jan 23, 2014 05:14

Maluco Marinero: Jan 18, 2001; Damn that's a
fine elephant.

coffeetable posted:

it doesn't matter, flip a coin and get to work. this early on, the mistakes you make in structuring your app are going to dwarf the effects of any suboptimal choice of technology

i say this as someone who umm'd and ah'd over which frameworks to use in this same thread not very long ago

So true. Especially with these front end frameworks. Spent a year working on Angular stuff but after hitting serious performance bottlenecks using it the right way, I'm done with that noise.

You're not going to be able to find out the things you REALLY need to know about a piece of tech til you actually build poo poo with it.

# ? Jan 23, 2014 07:58

double sulk: Jul 2, 2010

dehumanize yourself and face to rails

# ? Jan 23, 2014 09:03

coffeetable: Feb 5, 2006; TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

Gazpacho posted:

DATABASES DATABASES DATABASES DATABASES DATABASES
____/

# ? Jan 23, 2014 12:15

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

web 2.0 is dumb, server side logic and no javascript every day

get the gently caress off my lawn

# ? Jan 23, 2014 13:59

skeevy achievements: Feb 25, 2008; by merry exmarx

how do you feel about the practice of websites that dynamically generate entire client applications in javascript, mr dog

# ? Jan 23, 2014 14:31

fritz: Jul 26, 2003

tacodaemon posted:

it might not be pl specific but this is the finest of all technology-related images

flipper all tastefully covering up the groin tip

# ? Jan 23, 2014 16:17

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

fsf really does have a fetish for portraying linux as the junior partner

# ? Jan 23, 2014 16:18

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

gpl 3 is some hosed up fascist bullshit

# ? Jan 23, 2014 16:21

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Mr Dog posted:

web 2.0 is dumb, server side logic and no javascript every day

get the gently caress off my lawn

web 2.0 is dumb as poo poo, knockout just makes some of it easier. The cool thing about knockout is you don't have to fill it with ajax, you can have your server generate the javascript model and content and put it all on the page and then just let knockout handle things like adding dynamic fields and stuff. Legitimate stuff you would normally do w/ jquery but is still gay as balls javascript that you want to do as little of as possible.

# ? Jan 23, 2014 16:23

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

Otto Skorzeny posted:

fsf really does have a fetish for portraying linux as the junior partner

compensating i guess

# ? Jan 23, 2014 16:23

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

Shaggar posted:

web 2.0 is dumb as poo poo, knockout just makes some of it easier. The cool thing about knockout is you don't have to fill it with ajax, you can have your server generate the javascript model and content and put it all on the page and then just let knockout handle things like adding dynamic fields and stuff. Legitimate stuff you would normally do w/ jquery but is still gay as balls javascript that you want to do as little of as possible.

all i do is have the webapi server emit json/xml/ and then let the frontends consume that however they wish

# ? Jan 23, 2014 16:25

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

yeah webapi2 is great and ez and if someone else is writing the webs they can do whatever, but if its me im gonna make it as painless as possible for me and the user.

# ? Jan 23, 2014 16:26

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Shaggar posted:

gpl 3 is some hosed up fascist bullshit

this is true, apache license ftw

# ? Jan 23, 2014 18:11

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

software as a service sort of shat all over the gpl ideal so they more or less had to do gpl3 or admit that things werent working out, though the end result was the same

we live in the hilarious world where google is an free software darling because they never show you even the binaries, which due to the mental limitations of the average nerd means they get perceived as more open than old-style vendors like apple and microsoft who actually ship stuff to people

# ? Jan 23, 2014 18:34

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

software as a service sort of shat all over the gpl ideal so they more or less had to do gpl3 or admit that things werent working out, though the end result was the same

we live in the hilarious world where google is an free software darling because they never show you even the binaries, which due to the mental limitations of the average nerd means they get perceived as more open than old-style vendors like apple and microsoft who actually ship stuff to people

sounds like u havent heard of agplv3

the worst of all licenses

# ? Jan 23, 2014 18:39

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

i thought gpl 3 existed because rms spazzed out when he heard that people couldn't hack their tivos

Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jan 23, 2014

# ? Jan 23, 2014 18:42

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

haha so much linq abuse. linq is so cool. never doing a for loop ever again

# ? Jan 23, 2014 18:54

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

yeah gpl3 is for tivo agpl3 is for google

# ? Jan 23, 2014 18:54

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

Shaggar posted:

haha so much linq abuse. linq is so cool. never doing a for loop ever again

ONE OF US

now use bind on option types!

# ? Jan 23, 2014 18:58

coffeetable: Feb 5, 2006; TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

Shaggar posted:

haha so much linq abuse. linq is so cool. never doing a for loop ever again

you ever had a play with F#?

baby i got a |> ready for you

# ? Jan 23, 2014 19:02

coffeetable: Feb 5, 2006; TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

_{and also a single-pass compiler, but lets not talk about that}

# ? Jan 23, 2014 19:03

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

Shaggar posted:

haha so much linq abuse. linq is so cool. never doing a for loop ever again

sounds like you're doing a bad thing

# ? Jan 23, 2014 19:19

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

we need a clippy emote

# ? Jan 23, 2014 19:20

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

Gazpacho posted:

sounds like you're doing a bad thing

mapM_

# ? Jan 23, 2014 19:25

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

in what world is

code:

foreach (Foo foo in foos) {Console.Writeline(foo);}?

better than

code:

foos.ForEach(Console.Writeline);

??

sure if you've just got some code block involving foo there the first is more clean (mostly because of bad lambda syntax) but that's not the case in every situation!

and the argument about whether or not your ForEach should return an expression or just perform a side-effect is completely nonexistant too - see the differences between:
- map (pure function returns an expression)
- mapM (side-effecting (monadic) function returns an expression)
- mapM_ (side-effecting function doesn't return anything)

gonadic io fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jan 23, 2014

# ? Jan 23, 2014 19:46

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Gazpacho posted:

sounds like you're doing a bad thing

i don't think im actually using ForEach im just using stuff like GroupBy and Select and ToDictionary for transforming data.

# ? Jan 23, 2014 20:04

coffeetable: Feb 5, 2006; TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

AlsoD posted:

in what world is
code:
foreach (Foo foo in foos) {Console.Writeline(foo);}?
better than
code:
foos.ForEach(Console.Writeline);
??

sure if you've just got some code block involving foo there the first is more clean (mostly because of bad lambda syntax) but that's not the case in every situation!

LINQ expressions are supposed to be free of side effects, because procedurally-minded devs playing with lazily-evaluated side-effects is a recipe for disaster. of course there's nothing enforcing that and people do xs.Select(x => spray_state_everywhere(x)) all the time, but the C# team feel that a ForEach() would just be encouraging people

if you really want that syntax, you can still do xs.ToList().ForEach(x => poop(x))

# ? Jan 23, 2014 20:05

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

hmmmmm if only there were some way of statically knowing which expressions performed side effects and possibly even some way to have some rules about where they can or can't appear????

gonadic io fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Jan 23, 2014

# ? Jan 23, 2014 20:11

Zombywuf: Mar 29, 2008

Then the language could nicely let us break those rules because rules are hard.

# ? Jan 23, 2014 20:14

coffeetable: Feb 5, 2006; TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

AlsoD posted:

hmmmmm if only there were some way of statically knowing which expressions performed side effects and possibly even some way to have some rules about where they can or can't appear????

was just adding in a reply to your edit, but yeah that's the thing. map/mapM/mapM_ is fine because anyone working in haskell knows what a pain state is and has had lazy evaluation drilled into them since day one. in contrast, the majority of .net devs probably dont know what a side-effect is, and all LINQ's laziness means to them is that they need to scatter some ToList()'s around to stop VS complaining

# ? Jan 23, 2014 20:20

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 14:36

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

talking about breaking rules; i was having a fun read about the safe uses of unsafeCoerce* and unsafePerformIO** the other day. perhaps they should be renamed to probablyUnsafeX instead?

* this will apparently be fixed in the next version of ghc but at the moment:

code:

newtype Age = Age Int -- Age gets removed at compile time
intToAge :: Int -> Age
intToAge = Age -- guaranteed to have no runtime cost

intsToAges, intsToAges2 :: [Int] -> [Age]
intsToAges = map Age -- still needs to traverse the list so O(n)

intsToAges2 = unsafeCoerce

and since [Int] and [Age] have the same runtime representation intsToAges2 is safe and is back to getting compiled out

**: mostly for IO that only happens once and you don't care when for example reading config files or for printing trace statements

gonadic io fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Jan 23, 2014

# ? Jan 23, 2014 20:24

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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