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Scoops McKlep posted:When Inside Star-filled Sky went on sale, Rohrer searched through the comments and reviews from players. Steam profiles list the time someone has spent playing a game, and Rohrer noticed a crucial detail with players who didn't like Inside a Star-filled Sky: they weren't spending much time with it. I'm going to guess that something like 99.99% of people that pick up a game for a couple bucks during a sale wouldn't give a poo poo about writing a negative review unless this game was pretty loving rotten.
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Jan 23, 2014 17:59
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cat doter posted:I don't really know how this will all pan out, but based on network tests there's a lot of little tweaks and balances that make being invaded all the time more balanced. The cooldown or chance to be invaded seems to be pretty long, there's the covenant stuff, little tweaks to how healing works, parrying and backstabs aren't a foregone conclusion anymore, most items (not just weapons) have stat requirements so twinking is less viable, etc. Yeah, I'm going to give it a chance, just... Demons Souls worked because it was simple. You want to invade? Fine you start at a disadvantage. You could still PvP, just you had to be a skilled player to make up for the shortcomings, and a guy flailing wildly could stand a chance against you. Eventually items were found that gave an advantage to PvPers, which led to twinking, but that was far into the games life, and could be avoided by just not going human. This to me was perfect. Dark Souls tried to make things more complex by adding covenants, which everyone thought was going to be the best thing ever. Since we had covenants now, you can invade at full health. And oh look at all these items right out of the gate you can twink with. All this did was lead to horrifically imbalanced PvP specifically designed to gently caress anyone who went human. There wasn't any cool PvP fights between two players anymore, it was always a twink beating up new players. This got worse when you added in netcode, or people started hacking. Complication doesn't work well with FROM when it comes to netcode. This could easily end up far worse then any of us are imaging, and nobody ends up joining the Way of the Blue, leading to new players getting hosed by invaders constantly. And since they can't twink anymore, they'll just start hacking too, leading to even more hackers. And that invasion timer isn't nearly as long as it should be, because From wants to keep it "hardcore". And suddenly everything is even worse, and now you can't go offline to avoid it. Removing an option should never be the path forward. They could have added all these improved systems while leaving offline, and it'd have led to a better PvP experience for everyone who wanted it, while keeping the risk/reward going human offered in Dark Souls 1. Now though if it ends up as hosed as it was in 1, it's a total loss, and the game will be despised by everyone outside of the hardcore Souls community. And that's really loving dumb.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:03
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I do like the dudes idea of the launch price being the cheapest it will ever be to reward early adopters, except just after reverting to the regular price have a sale price that's in between.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:08
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Guys Spelunkin with Scoops is a really great feature .
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Jan 23, 2014 18:11
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Yodzilla posted:He lives in poverty on purpose and that including putting his family in dangerous situations in garbage neighborhoods like with the dog attack. He's actively against making money or...something. Every review I've seen with him makes him seem more than a little unhinged. Ah ha ha, it's that guy. I remember the thread talking about him years ago. Hint for that guy: Steam sales aren't just to make money. They put your game back on the front page of one of the most looked-at storefronts on the internet for a day or two. If you're not adding DLC or new content, steam sales are the only way to get advertising for your game.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:14
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Rookersh posted:Yeah, I'm going to give it a chance, just... I can understand some of these concerns, I have them too, but I think you're exaggerating some of the problems. Hacking is definitely a problem on PC but it's also a product of player side connections and no cheat protection built into the netcode. That's my main concern, whether or not the dedicated servers will track cheaters better. Hacking in Dark Souls is basically changing memory addresses. If those are sent to a dedicated server, it's a lot easier to be like "oh hey this code is wrong, reject it". The problem is, like many have mentioned, Japanese online games are kinda janky. Invasions are getting somewhat more complicated, but if they keep up their end of streamlining stuff and having an option for players to opt out of PvP, it shouldn't be so bad.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:15
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Man if theres one thing that makes games better its allowing strangers on the internet to affect the gameplay.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:22
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Good to know what I've thought for years is true, that that Jason fellow is an idiot. I really, really regret buying Castle Doctrine. It seemed like such a neat premise that he took absolutely no where.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:22
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Yodzilla posted:He lives in poverty on purpose or something like that including putting his family in dangerous situations like with the dog attack. He's actively against making money or...something. Every review I've seen with him makes him seem more than a little unhinged. Yeah, you can pretty much close your eyes and point to a random line in any of his interviews and you'll hit something strange and/or paranoid at best, sadistic at worst. Like how he tried to pepper spray a dog but got it in his own eyes, instead, so he bought a club. Or how he's absolutely terrified of a future where he can't own a gun because of Government Badmen. For those who didn't read the article or know how Rohrer is, this is the guy making The Castle Doctrine, a game where your virtual family is treated as property, and you're tasked with turning your house into a Kevin McAllister turned survivalist nutjob fortress. He's holding a contest for early access players. The best players in the alpha receive "prizes" including a Door Devil: quote:Sick of having your front door kicked in at three in the afternoon? Our 85-year-old neighbor in Las Cruces was. Maybe she should have installed one of these. Worried that the feds aren't going to give you enough warning when they barge in? If you're worried about that, you're probably the kind of person the feds are actually watching! a shopping spree at a hole-in-the-wall gun store, and Rohrer's loving dog club: quote:Own the club that started it all. A heartwarming souvenir from Las Cruces, New Mexico. (Note: was never actually used to club a dog.) Way safer than a gun! Much harder to commit suicide with. More compact than a golf club, which was actually the anti-dog tool of choice in Cruces. The guy's kinda weird. I know there are a lot of people in the industry with very obvious power fantasies and blatant paranoia problems, but I don't think I've seen someone who likes to bring them up as much as he does. Astro Creep fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 18:23
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Rookersh posted:Dark Souls tried to make things more complex by adding covenants, which everyone thought was going to be the best thing ever. Since we had covenants now, you can invade at full health. And oh look at all these items right out of the gate you can twink with. All this did was lead to horrifically imbalanced PvP specifically designed to gently caress anyone who went human. With the exception of gear differences for the first half of the game, which I agree are a problem (though one that a lot of multiplayer-averse people tend to overrate and scare themselves way from), the host is always at an advantage over the invader. They're able to heal quickly and easily, they're able to summon two entire other players, they're always near-equal or higher level than the darkwraith, and they can send the darkwraith home without even fighting by going through the boss door. At Anor Londo and the areas beyond it, being the invader is an uphill battle almost all of the time because the host has access to basically everything that you do. quote:There wasn't any cool PvP fights between two players anymore, it was always a twink beating up new players. This got worse when you added in netcode, or people started hacking. There are and basically always have been loads of those cool dueling fights in Dark Souls PvP, you are talking completely out of your rear end. Because darkwraiths can invade infinitely upward in level, twinks beating up new and underequipped players is the minority of invasions even for those low level invaders, especially now since the game has been out for so long. Hacking is absolutely bad but you're making a plainly false statement regarding duels.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:25
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thefncrow posted:Unless there's some new mechanic that's yet to be revealed in Dark Souls 2 that lets you prevent invasion like being hollow in the first game did, there's a good chance I will never touch that game. Although maybe the PC port might be OK if I can firewall that game to prevent all internet traffic. The best you can do so far revealed is join a covenant that summons members of a second covenant to help you when invaded. it may not be the best solution but it's a cool idea to have complimentary covenants.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:31
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Popo posted:The best you can do so far revealed is join a covenant that summons members of a second covenant to help you when invaded. it may not be the best solution but it's a cool idea to have complimentary covenants. Yeah, I've heard about that, but my problem is I don't want the invasions period. A mechanic that makes them easier to handle doesn't solve my problem at all.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:38
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Astro Creep posted:The guy's kinda weird. He sure is, but that doesn't automatically make everything he says wrong. He raises a lot of interesting point about Steam sales, and while I'd totally love to hear an opposing view point, there's no possible way they are without any downsides. It's going to take more than a year or two of them before the long term consequences can be uncovered. Maybe they're great for game sales and (more importantly) game quality. Maybe they're not. But no one here has the sort of data required to declare that right now.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:39
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Offline mode does exist. I don't think invasions are ever going to change so you either have to put up with them or disconnect from PSN/Live when you want to get through a section without someone invading.xamphear posted:He sure is, but that doesn't automatically make everything he says wrong. He raises a lot of interesting point about Steam sales, and while I'd totally love to hear an opposing view point, there's no possible way they are without any downsides. It's going to take more than a year or two of them before the long term consequences can be uncovered. Maybe they're great for game sales and (more importantly) game quality. Maybe they're not. But no one here has the sort of data required to declare that right now. Jimbot fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 18:40
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What's with this music in the caves in the spelunkin stream? I've never heard it before.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:44
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xamphear posted:He sure is, but that doesn't automatically make everything he says wrong. He raises a lot of interesting point about Steam sales, and while I'd totally love to hear an opposing view point, there's no possible way they are without any downsides. It's going to take more than a year or two of them before the long term consequences can be uncovered. Maybe they're great for game sales and (more importantly) game quality. Maybe they're not. But no one here has the sort of data required to declare that right now. "Steam sales are bad because I make more money and more people buy my game but none of them actually play it!"
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Jan 23, 2014 18:47
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That spelunkin was great, perfect ending.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:49
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cat doter posted:What's with this music in the caves in the spelunkin stream? I've never heard it before. If it sounds more chiptune-y, that's because sometimes very rarely the game will play music which I think is from the freeware version. There may be other alternate versions of certain musics that aren't from the previous game, I'm not sure. If he's in the Ice Caves on a Yeti level ("I smell wet fur" or something at the start), that's because the yeti level music is just kinda bonkers.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:50
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cat doter posted:What's with this music in the caves in the spelunkin stream? I've never heard it before. EDIT:  !
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Jan 23, 2014 18:53
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As I just saw someone point out on twitter, the timing of Rohrer's comments about sales are kinda hilarious, since he posted his thing last week right in the middle of Steam Dev Days, where supposedly Valve laid out a shitload of data backing their position on the benefits of sales. I mean, if he wants to limit the exposure if his games and make sure that they're basically unknown, this sounds like a great plan.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:53
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Spelunky is weirdly layered for how basic it seems at first. It's Dark Souls in reverse. (the reverse metaphor works because I'm terrible at spelunky)
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Jan 23, 2014 18:58
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Man, the internet is going to be intolerable when Dark Souls 2 hits. I'm going to know everything about the game waiting for the PC version.
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Jan 23, 2014 19:09
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cat doter posted:I can understand some of these concerns, I have them too, but I think you're exaggerating some of the problems. Hacking is definitely a problem on PC but it's also a product of player side connections and no cheat protection built into the netcode. That's my main concern, whether or not the dedicated servers will track cheaters better. This is why I will continue to buy a PC copy and a console copy until From gets some competent anti-cheat protection. The nice thing about playing it on the consoles is that even without server-side cheat protection, the things you have to do to a console to do the heinous poo poo you see on the PC are pretty much the same things you have to do to pirate games, and those mods will probably get you banned from PSN if you take a console like that online - things like running custom firmware. The fact that a user has to risk the ability of their console to play anything online in order to do the worst kind of cheating is pretty effective anti-cheat protection by itself. I mean, Microsoft steadfastly refuses to ban anyone's Live account for cheating, no matter how blatant if they do it in GFWL. If they managed get Dark Souls 2 hooked into VAC it might not be able to stop cheaters, but you'd at least have some consequences for cheating when you have to create a brand new Steam account and buy a new copy to play online with that game again.
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Jan 23, 2014 19:34
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I'm trying to watch the Chrono Trigger Endurance Run and holy poo poo this is so painful to watch. They're both constantly wrong about everything and miss things, everything takes forever because Ryan backtracks needlessly all the time because he can't figure out where he is and where he came from, and Patrick's attempts at humor are incredibly annoying (and I really like his newer stuff, dude's gone a long way). (why yes I have finished the game a dozen or so times why do you ask)
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Jan 23, 2014 19:43
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Veib posted:I'm trying to watch the Chrono Trigger Endurance Run and holy poo poo this is so painful to watch. They're both constantly wrong about everything and miss things, everything takes forever because Ryan backtracks needlessly all the time because he can't figure out where he is and where he came from, and Patrick's attempts at humor are incredibly annoying (and I really like his newer stuff, dude's gone a long way). Then stop watching it?
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Jan 23, 2014 19:44
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MacGyvers_Mullet posted:This is why I will continue to buy a PC copy and a console copy until From gets some competent anti-cheat protection. The nice thing about playing it on the consoles is that even without server-side cheat protection, the things you have to do to a console to do the heinous poo poo you see on the PC are pretty much the same things you have to do to pirate games, and those mods will probably get you banned from PSN if you take a console like that online - things like running custom firmware. The fact that a user has to risk the ability of their console to play anything online in order to do the worst kind of cheating is pretty effective anti-cheat protection by itself. The great thing about getting copies for both is that you can get the console version new, with a kickass metal case and all sorts of goodies then get the PC version when it's 5-10 bucks in a year or so on a Steam sale. I did exactly that with Dark Souls.
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Jan 23, 2014 19:47
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The discussion got lost in the Dark Souls chat but the Kickbeat QL that went up today is pretty funny. The late 90s/early 2000s music choices and the really bad use your own song option are pretty amazing.
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Jan 23, 2014 19:48
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0lives posted:I really, really regret buying Castle Doctrine. It seemed like such a neat premise that he took absolutely no where. Could you elaborate? I feel like the moment I saw the trailer, I was very happy a game with such an interesting premise/statement existed, but also had zero interest in ever playing it.
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Jan 23, 2014 19:48
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muscles like this? posted:The discussion got lost in the Dark Souls chat but the Kickbeat QL that went up today is pretty funny. The late 90s/early 2000s music choices and the really bad use your own song option are pretty amazing. They didn't notice it when Vinny was scrolling through the story mode tracks at the end, but I did. I saw you there, Papa Roach.
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Jan 23, 2014 19:49
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MoonwalkInvincible posted:With the exception of gear differences for the first half of the game, which I agree are a problem (though one that a lot of multiplayer-averse people tend to overrate and scare themselves way from), the host is always at an advantage over the invader. They're able to heal quickly and easily, they're able to summon two entire other players, they're always near-equal or higher level than the darkwraith, and they can send the darkwraith home without even fighting by going through the boss door. At Anor Londo and the areas beyond it, being the invader is an uphill battle almost all of the time because the host has access to basically everything that you do. Maybe I am. Here's the thing. Those awesome duels? They happen in specific places. Those great invasion moments you had? Happened before anyone knew what they were doing. Those cool fights you remember? Probably happened in Forest or Kiln. And during most of it you were expecting it, likely wanting it, and prepared for it. For everyone that doesn't know to go to Kiln/Forest for good PvP, or didn't know the get Lautrec's ring early, or didn't know how to kill Havel fast, or you know, anybody whose a normal player? No, they are just getting ganked over and over again. In Demon Souls almost all my invasions were me facing off against a similarly geared opponent. It was a tough fight, but I could win if I played smart. Even then, while I enjoyed some fights, I disliked others because they got in the way of me playing the game. In Dark Souls around two of the fights I had total were against players around my gear level. Everyone else was either a twink killing me in Burg/Parish over and over again, or someone abusing a spell in a specific location ( Anor Londo bridge with the knockback spell, standing in a doorway spamming the physical knockdown spell over and over again, etc. ). I'd also argue the host is NEVER at an advantage over an invader. Invasions require you to have a decent knowledge of the games mechanics to even start, and in most cases can't be done until you've figured out the specific way to unlock invading. Because of this, invaders will often have the best gear/items possible, and know of more secrets then the average player. An invader is also prepared to PvP, and will likely have built a spec/gear/consumable array specifically designed to kill other players quickly. A host will likely be geared towards PvE, and may not have means to counter other players at that point in the game ( I didn't like using spells, so I never used them. Well get hosed me, that guy has A SPELL, so now I'm going to die no matter what I do. ). Yes, the PvP in Dark Souls can be fun when it works. But I'd argue they should focus on making it work, rather then just forcing it on everyone. In Demon Souls it was enjoyable to get in PvP because it was usually well structured, so I kept invading other people when "soul" and tried to stay human. In Dark Souls it was a horrible piece of poo poo that was easily abused/broken by just about everyone. So I tried to stay hollow as much as I could. But because I COULD stay hollow I didn't care that much. If they gently caress it up in Dark Souls 2, the entire game is hosed, not just the multiplayer. And that's the dumbest possible situation they could put themselves in. Maybe if the game had better designed multiplayer, people wouldn't be so averse to trying it and getting scared by it. Instead it's twink murderville, and people are shocked, shocked that anybody might not want to deal with that over the course of an entire game. And maybe Dark Souls 2 will have better multiplayer. I'm willing to give it a chance. But I'm not expecting much, because I remember how Dark Souls 1 was supposed to be the multiplayer revolution with it's covenants, and how great those sounded prerelease. Except this time if they gently caress it up, all the hype they've got going for them will deflate, and the Souls games will go back to a niche cult genre, because nothing will drive people away faster then really hosed forced multiplayer. Rookersh fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 19:50
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You got griefed a bunch and then conceived a paranoid manifesto to explain that it was the system's fault. That is what's happening here. I'm cool with whatever FROM does for the second game, but right now I've got a slight preference for "whatever spites this dude."
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Jan 23, 2014 19:53
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Mods, please change my name to twink murderville.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:00
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Rookersh posted:I'd also argue the host is NEVER at an advantage over an invader. Invasions require you to have a decent knowledge of the games mechanics to even start, and in most cases can't be done until you've figured out the specific way to unlock invading. Because of this, invaders will often have the best gear/items possible, and know of more secrets then the average player. An invader is also prepared to PvP, and will likely have built a spec/gear/consumable array specifically designed to kill other players quickly. A host will likely be geared towards PvE, and may not have means to counter other players at that point in the game ( I didn't like using spells, so I never used them. Well get hosed me, that guy has A SPELL, so now I'm going to die no matter what I do. ). You honestly just have no idea how many hosts are prepared and actively waiting for PvP. The answer is almost all of them. And, hell, even if they aren't perfectly geared for it, anyone who goes human is expecting PvP to happen once they've actually learned what being human does. It's very rare to invade a host who doesn't have at least one phantom, whether they're looking to be invaded or whether they're just trying to do the area normally, and except for the first half of the game when the gear disparity truly is too large, there's not really any way to rationalize a 2v1 or 3v1 fight as being weighted towards the 1. Also, the fact that you assume you're going to lose to anyone with a spell might be why you automatically lost to people with spells (and hell, assuming you're going to lose to any invader is a pretty good way to make sure that you lose). Magic is not actually that great against other human players. I'm sorry that people killed you a bunch before you got the opportunity to die to the boss instead, but Dark Souls teaches you really early on not to give a poo poo about getting killed and just persevere. There's not much reason to be scared of any kind of death in that game, and it only takes a couple minutes in almost every area to get back to the boss door and give it another shot.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:05
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Fledgling Gulps posted:The "science" chat was maybe on of the few times I've wished they would talk about video games instead. Didn't help that I had already heard a discussion about the dog stuff on Skeptic's Guide. I am glad I was not the only one. I love when the bombcast goes off on a crazy tangential, but it has been a bit too much of a good thing recently. One of Ryan's greatest abilities as a host was to let conversation meander just the right amount before cutting it off full stop and moving on.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:07
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Kasonic posted:Could you elaborate? I feel like the moment I saw the trailer, I was very happy a game with such an interesting premise/statement existed, but also had zero interest in ever playing it. I haven't played in quite a while but I'm going to imagine it's exactly the same as it was before. There didn't seem to be any changes from the original release and a few months ago anyway. Imagine if Garry's Mod was a roguelike. You try to build traps but oops, you made a mistake, its all gone and the hour you spent making it is gone too. I like roguelikes, but this game does not benefit from being one. The game does not reward creativity or originality but instead boring old combination locks. Getting money is not a problem as maybe 1/100 people will actually build defenses. You can loot free money forever, and with enough money and patience you can also break into any system, as every trap has a counter-tool that can break it. You can get through any wall, pit or dog until you get bored and leave. There is no challenge besides getting frustrated after your own traps kill you. The game doesn't really exist to serve interesting gameplay and is more about the ~story~ of how you are a terrible person doing terrible things to ~protect your family.~ Not worth a single dollar.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:18
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MoonwalkInvincible posted:You honestly just have no idea how many hosts are prepared and actively waiting for PvP. The answer is almost all of them. And, hell, even if they aren't perfectly geared for it, anyone who goes human is expecting PvP to happen once they've actually learned what being human does. It's very rare to invade a host who doesn't have at least one phantom, whether they're looking to be invaded or whether they're just trying to do the area normally, and except for the first half of the game when the gear disparity truly is too large, there's not really any way to rationalize a 2v1 or 3v1 fight as being weighted towards the 1. If you can be invaded even when you are dead in Dark Souls 2 then this won't be the case though. So that seems bad to me.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:19
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The worst thing about Dark Souls is all the obsessive nerds who wont shut the gently caress up about it. Like half of this loving thread is about Dark Souls, and most of the posts aren't even about the GB crew playing it, just the same couple dozen fanboys reiterating their same tired old points over and over again 
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Jan 23, 2014 20:21
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Ganty posted:If you can be invaded even when you are dead in Dark Souls 2 then this won't be the case though. So that seems bad to me. Yeah, I have no idea whether DkS 2's system is going to be good or not or whether the deterrents to invasion are going to work the way they want them to. I hope that it turns out great, obviously, but it also wouldn't be surprising to me if it has some huge problems. Time will tell. Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:The worst thing about Dark Souls is all the obsessive nerds who wont shut the gently caress up about it. Like half of this loving thread is about Dark Souls, and most of the posts aren't even about the GB crew playing it, just the same couple dozen fanboys reiterating their same tired old points over and over again Thanks, this post about how people post is surely an even better contribution to the thread than people discussing a videogame.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:21
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Jan 23, 2014 20:22
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Veib posted:I'm trying to watch the Chrono Trigger Endurance Run and holy poo poo this is so painful to watch. They're both constantly wrong about everything and miss things, everything takes forever because Ryan backtracks needlessly all the time because he can't figure out where he is and where he came from, and Patrick's attempts at humor are incredibly annoying (and I really like his newer stuff, dude's gone a long way). This is exactly why I love the Chrono Trigger Endurance Run. Their complete and utter incompetence is just hilarious to me, even as someone who knows Chrono Trigger inside and out. The best is later in the game, after getting the flying time machine when they proceed to spend an hour walking across the entire map, complaining about how slow and tedious walking is, and that they wish there was some faster way to travel. This is literally less than 10 minutes after getting a time machine with wings. 
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