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Mr. Bill posted:They didn't notice it when Vinny was scrolling through the story mode tracks at the end, but I did. I saw you there, Papa Roach. Yeah they did, they just mention the song name instead of saying Papa Roach.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:24
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Patrick has seriously been improving at Spelunky even faster than Remo did. It's kind of crazy how much better he is at the game now, after only about two weeks of doing the stream.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:26
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I'm glad Patrick isn't around now that Rorie is here. Rorie may chomp puppies but he doesn't throw them at enemies or sacrifice them to Kali. Seeing one chomped by a dinosaur was enough to drive him to alcoholism, so I can't even imagine what doing those things would drive him to.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:27
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MoonwalkInvincible posted:Patrick has seriously been improving at Spelunky even faster than Remo did. It's kind of crazy how much better he is at the game now, after only about two weeks of doing the stream. Well to be fair, robbing the black market is easy modo Dred Cosmonaut fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 20:29
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Sacrificing, sure. But there is no purpose to abusing the damsel/pug is there?
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Jan 23, 2014 20:29
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Rinkles posted:Sacrificing, sure. But there is no purpose to abusing the damsel/pug is there? He's drinking their blood after he has the Kali cup.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:30
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TheJoker138 posted:Yes, yes, you all love Dark Souls. That's why I don't take part in these conversations. You're all insane and I'm never going to change your opinions and you're never going to change mine. I think it's a bad game. I have had zero fun playing it. I'm glad you have. But nothing is ever going to make me think otherwise.  "Guys, I don't like this game and therefore is objectively bad and poo poo. Anyone who hates it does so Rightly! Wait, why aren't you willing to engage me in debate?"Yeah dude, it's all us DS lovers that are crazy (PS: I don't even like DS. Like the lore and setting, can't stand the actual gameplay. I know that it's not an actually bad game, but I don't like it. Saying someone 'rightly' hates it makes it sound like everyone who does enjoy it is 100% in the wrong for doing so and saying things like THAT makes you sound like an idiot. Hope that helps).
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Jan 23, 2014 20:31
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YorexTheMad posted:He's drinking their blood after he has the Kali cup. That's news to me. e:Count me in as someone else who'd appreciate a bit less Souls talk.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:31
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Rinkles posted:That's news to me. The fact that they tend to spawn in those tiny corners makes it relatively easy to get all three blood drops from each hit, unlike attacking normal enemies in the open. So every damsel in those areas is worth 3/4 of a health point from blood plus the point for saving them, assuming they're able to survive to an exit.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:34
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Another Breaking Brad: Demons Souls tonight.  Or whatever your timezone is, in 4 hours.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:37
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MoonwalkInvincible posted:You honestly just have no idea how many hosts are prepared and actively waiting for PvP. The answer is almost all of them. And, hell, even if they aren't perfectly geared for it, anyone who goes human is expecting PvP to happen once they've actually learned what being human does. It's very rare to invade a host who doesn't have at least one phantom, whether they're looking to be invaded or whether they're just trying to do the area normally, and except for the first half of the game when the gear disparity truly is too large, there's not really any way to rationalize a 2v1 or 3v1 fight as being weighted towards the 1. So I'll agree with you here that I'm wrong and PvP isn't all that bad, and the host has the benefit, because you do seem to have a better idea from that angle then I did. Except I still feel as though the game fails to showcase this. In Demon Souls I was encouraged to invade for more humanity, so I did it. I got into a bunch of fights, and enjoyed the PvP. If anybody wanted my soul, well gently caress them, they'd have to take it from my cold dead hands. In Dark Souls I waited for the PC version, went human in Burg/Parish, and was immediately invaded by people with the silly hat from Mirror that could kill me in 2-3 hits. They had the best equipment and gear in the game and decided to kill new players over and over again. Maybe I could have beat some of them, but for the majority of the fights I hit them for 1/10th of their bar, and they could two shot me. Because of this experience I didn't go human again until Londo. Once there I was met with people who didn't fight me, but instead stood near ledges and knocked me back with spells I couldn't do anything against. I eventually gave it a final try near the endgame, as I was gathering up the Lordvessel Souls, and suddenly got hit with a bunch of hackers who permareduced my stats when they killed me. That pretty much sold me off on the PvP. I got a few good fights in Londo, but almost everything else was just completely onesided and decided well before I did anything. And I gave it an honest try, going human over a dozen times, but that's all I got out of the system. According to the Dark Souls thread, if you want real PvP you should go human in the Forest or Kiln, but by the end of the game I had no real desire to do either. I'll admit that there may be good PvP in the game, I just never saw it like I did in Demons. The game was so horrifically flawed that it drove me away from wanting to be human, and I basically just gave up on co-op/PvP because of it. What's the point in fighting when nobody wants to fight you. And it's why I'm so annoyed with the change in 2. It could be great, and encourage more focus on player interaction, and good covenants and some neat tricks, but if they gently caress up any part of it, it'll be a nightmare for everyone but the PvPers. And this is the company that thought the Scraping Spear was a good idea, that took 3 games to realize putting stat requirements on items might be important to avoid twinking, and has never bothered banning cheaters/hackers.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:39
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JuHoZ posted:Another Breaking Brad: Demons Souls tonight. Give that to me in Swatch Internet Time, otherwise I'll be late.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:41
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Did Brad make some agreement that he must only play it at the office? It would be fun to see him poopsock the game like Patrick did Dark Souls.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:42
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Rookersh posted:In Dark Souls I waited for the PC version Found your problem. And you never, ever want to PvP in the Forest unless you're a Dark Souls grandmaster looking to make funny Youtube videos. That place removes the level barrier for invading players, so it's griefer city. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 20:45
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Mu Zeta posted:Did Brad make some agreement that he must only play it at the office? It would be fun to see him poopsock the game like Patrick did Dark Souls. He's playing it with Vinny's help so he kind of has to do it in the office. Patrick mentioned he bought Demon's Souls recently but I'm kind of surprised he bought a physical copy instead of just buying it off PSN. (Also Patrick should have just had PS+ considering it was a free game on there not that long ago.)
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Jan 23, 2014 20:46
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Jimbot posted:I'm glad Patrick isn't around now that Rorie is here. Rorie may chomp puppies but he doesn't throw them at enemies or sacrifice them to Kali. Seeing one chomped by a dinosaur was enough to drive him to alcoholism, so I can't even imagine what doing those things would drive him to. He's actually not. He's over reliant on the black market and sacrifices. He learnt a few tricks so get himself reasonably far reasonably quickly but he isn't getting better at the core platforming. poo poo he hasn't even gotten to the worm level before. Not to poo poo on Patrick, I love the guy, but it's like saying someone is good at Super Mario bros. 3 because they can get the warp whistle.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:48
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JuHoZ posted:Another Breaking Brad: Demons Souls tonight. Sweet! I know not everyone like Souls games (and some loathe them), but between this and Spelunky GiantBomb has been so much fun to watch lately. There's just something so compelling about watching them play these mechanically solid games that makes the videos much more engaging than a lot of the mediocre stuff they quicklook. The viking game Brad did scratched the same itch, but now that they're all playing two of my favorite games ever, I'm in hog heaven.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:48
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Jimbot posted:There will always be people who buy the games new and there will always be people who buy the games when they're on sale. Guys, I know that Steam sales save you a bunch of money, but that doesn't mean that they are immune from downsides or criticism.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:51
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Dred Cosmonaut posted:Wow this Roher guy in patrick's new sales article is a loving idiot! Yup I read his thing the other day. He's really dumb.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:53
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Monster w21 Faces posted:He's actually not. He's over reliant on the black market and sacrifices. He learnt a few tricks so get himself reasonably far reasonably quickly but he isn't getting better at the core platforming. poo poo he hasn't even gotten to the worm level before. Leveraging the game's mechanics to your advantage doesn't make you good at the game?
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Jan 23, 2014 20:55
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Veib posted:I'm trying to watch the Chrono Trigger Endurance Run and holy poo poo this is so painful to watch. They're both constantly wrong about everything and miss things, everything takes forever because Ryan backtracks needlessly all the time because he can't figure out where he is and where he came from, and Patrick's attempts at humor are incredibly annoying (and I really like his newer stuff, dude's gone a long way). This is why the Chrono Trigger run was one that I just had to have on in the background when doing other things. I swear that man would walk into a screen he was on previously 30 seconds ago and think it was a whole new place.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:01
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xamphear posted:Sure, but what does that ratio look like? What was it a year ago? What was it 5 years ago? What will it be 5 years from now? For PC games? I bet more people buy them now than they did 5 years ago. Remember the whole "PC gaming is dead/dying" malarkey from not too long ago? It didn't have the shelf space in retail, you couldn't trade them in so no one cared and developers certainly didn't give it the time of day. Now PC game is where all the Indie titles are coming from and sales are putting games on the map because Steam and other services give them an outlet to sell their wares. I think the sales do more to help games than it does to harm them and this guy is just spouting nonsense to get in the limelight. I bet because of this whole thing there's more attention focused towards this guy's games than there were before. People will always buy things new, it's how consumerism works. If you price the game appropriately for the kind of game you created, people will weigh in if that game is worth the price you are asking for and if it is, they'll probably buy it. If not then they won't. Raising the price later on is the sure-fire way of not getting any more sales. I'm sure once he does that and his games don't sell, he'll blame someone else for his stupid ideas - he seems like that kind of person.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:05
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Give that to me in Swatch Internet Time, otherwise I'll be late. 520 .beats, don't be late.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:11
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Jimbot posted:I'm sure once he does that and his games don't sell, he'll blame someone else for his stupid ideas - he seems like that kind of person. He left himself that opening from the start, with part of his post talking about "Maybe Steam sales have just conditioned the userbase to expect sales like these" talk. So if that does happen, expect him to fall back on "It's not that I was wrong, but it's instead because everyone else has poisoned the well." thefncrow fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 21:11
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Oh man, that Tele-pack bit in Spelunkin' With Scoops.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:16
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Jimbot posted:For PC games? I bet more people buy them now than they did 5 years ago. Remember the whole "PC gaming is dead/dying" malarkey from not too long ago? It didn't have the shelf space in retail, you couldn't trade them in so no one cared and developers certainly didn't give it the time of day. Now PC game is where all the Indie titles are coming from and sales are putting games on the map because Steam and other services give them an outlet to sell their wares. I think the sales do more to help games than it does to harm them and this guy is just spouting nonsense to get in the limelight. I bet because of this whole thing there's more attention focused towards this guy's games than there were before. Also the world doesn't owe anyone success so sometimes you just make a game that people don't really want to play.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:17
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If people are unfamiliar with a creator's games, waiting for them to be on sale seems like reasonable behavior. But I also think it's reasonable to also say "You can get a discount on the game now, and it won't be discounted later."
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Jan 23, 2014 21:22
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MacGyvers_Mullet posted:Sweet! I know not everyone like Souls games (and some loathe them), but between this and Spelunky GiantBomb has been so much fun to watch lately. There's just something so compelling about watching them play these mechanically solid games that makes the videos much more engaging than a lot of the mediocre stuff they quicklook. The viking game Brad did scratched the same itch, but now that they're all playing two of my favorite games ever, I'm in hog heaven. Yeah I'm really enjoying it too. Speaking of content have they even mentioned pathfinder recently? I know that Ian has left and Rorie was sick for a while combined with the end of the year work load probably killed it, but I was looking forward to them doing something after the starter box dungeon. I liked Ian but four players would be more manageable for Rorie anyway.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:24
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:The worst thing about Dark Souls is all the obsessive nerds who wont shut the gently caress up about it. Like half of this loving thread is about Dark Souls, and most of the posts aren't even about the GB crew playing it, just the same couple dozen fanboys reiterating their same tired old points over and over again
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Jan 23, 2014 21:27
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Dark Souls and Dota 2 are good games and I feel bad for those who don't like them I guess.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:29
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Mutation posted:If people are unfamiliar with a creator's games, waiting for them to be on sale seems like reasonable behavior. See DayZ's ALPHA selling a million copies and Rust generating 10 million dollars worth of revenue. Not a sale in sight. The REAL Goobusters posted:Dark Souls and Dota 2 are good games and I feel bad for those who don't like them I guess. That's what being undead must feel like.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:29
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Wow, what an end to today's Spelunkin' with Scoops. Not quite on the level of Vinny vs Artorias, but still hilarious. They should just rename the site Whips & Flasks dot com.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:31
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The weird thing about all this Dark Souls stuff is how it came as a wave. Vinny did his Load Our Last Save stuff with Dark Souls then a few weeks later everyone has Dark Souls fever. Patrick got into it and he was previously down on the game, Brad can't seem to get enough of those games now that he tried Demon's Souls, Jeff Green is playing it. Just a cascade of Dark Souls. If you dislike all this then I think it's going to get worse before it gets better since Dark Souls 2 is right around the corner. Speaking of Load Our Last Save, I wonder what game they will do next. I still remember Drew and Vinny beating Halo on Legendary with 1 second to spare on the counter when they did that game. That was insanely intense.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:32
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That Rohrer guy seems like he's taken the 'things are different now and i don't understand them, so things are ruined and broken' mindset that people take over music/movies/anything someone says 'nowadays' about. He's also self-selected the poo poo out of his own research, taking the face value of play time against impressions (what was the play time of people that never submitted a review compared with the price at the time? Were the reviewers people that give a review for every game, or did they especially feel it was a piece of poo poo/gem?). Ramping up your price over a period of time works for special snowflakes like Minecraft because it was a very explicitly stated work in progress and it had a massive groundswell of community and word of mouth besides. At some point you have to be pragmatic about the scope of your game and its position on the market, and maybe an indie game with 2D pixel art graphics would benefit by giving the player a more succinct impression of the full game from the outset so it might stand out from other games with that extremely common aesthetic.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:35
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Jimbot posted:The weird thing about all this Dark Souls stuff is how it came as a wave. Vinny did his Load Our Last Save stuff with Dark Souls then a few weeks later everyone has Dark Souls fever. Patrick got into it and he was previously down on the game, Brad can't seem to get enough of those games now that he tried Demon's Souls, Jeff Green is playing it. Just a cascade of Dark Souls. If you dislike all this then I think it's going to get worse before it gets better since Dark Souls 2 is right around the corner. It being their most popular content of late is probably somewhat related.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:36
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thefncrow posted:He left himself that opening from the start, with part of his post talking about "Maybe Steam sales have just conditioned the userbase to expect sales like these" talk. So if that does happen, expect him to fall back on "It's not that I was wrong, but it's instead because everyone else has poisoned the well." This touches on my problem with part of his argument - he places too much weight on external factors and doesn't really step back and consider that there might be something about his games that's driving the behavior he's seeing in his numbers. That lack of perspective is a common strain among a few other indie dev opinion pieces I've read. Namely, there was an article in Gamasutra a year or two ago about how demos are bad business. The dev made the argument that since his demo conversion rate was rock bottom, that there is a fundamental problem with demos in that the people who are sold by a demo are outweighed by the people that were going to buy the game but found out they didn't like it from the demo. At no point did the dev stop and consider that this behavior was because his game wasn't very fun (I hated it, and I got the full version from a humble bundle). The entire article was page upon page of him making broad industry-wide conclusions based on the data from his (bad, imo) games. Another dev made a phone game - it was a boring Game and Watch/Tiger Electronics-style game; one screen, no animation, and about 15 seconds of gameplay repeated over and over. He presented a long argument about why his experiences trying to port that phone game to the PC (spoiler: it sold like 7 copies) is indicative of a larger problem in the PC gamer market where news outlets, consumers, and digital distributors are unfairly dismissive of games that launch first on phones. That's a good premise, but the problem is he supported his whole argument with the fact that nobody, not even Desura, wanted his game on PC - a super lazy port full of bad controls and compatibility issues, virtually no content, and a price tag around 10x the asking price on mobile. This dev only briefly touched on (then immediately dismissed) the quality and value of his product as being a factor in the problems the PC port faced. He framed the problem as being entirely a perception issue and dismissed the quality side of the argument almost whole cloth. Like with the Castle Doctrine guy, there is a legitimate argument to be made in all these cases, but the arguments these devs chose to present were too myopic to support their thesis.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:36
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Liquid Penguins fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Apr 6, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2014 21:36
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I've never heard of a single game this guy has made. I think Passage was covered by Patrick at some point but I literally don't know any of these. Why is he going to be increasing the price over his new game? I mean sure, but I don't think that will drive sales. I don't know it might turn to be a smash hit who knows.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:40
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MacGyvers_Mullet posted:This touches on my problem with part of his argument - he places too much weight on external factors and doesn't really step back and consider that there might be something about his games that's driving the behavior he's seeing in his numbers. Grrrrr, why isn't my NOT space sim game 'Inside a Star-filled Sky' not in the top selling list on Steam? 
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Jan 23, 2014 21:41
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Monster w21 Faces posted:He's actually not. He's over reliant on the black market and sacrifices. He learnt a few tricks so get himself reasonably far reasonably quickly but he isn't getting better at the core platforming. poo poo he hasn't even gotten to the worm level before. Well, he's aiming for a Hell run so he has to raid the Black Market. Unless he's going to buy the Anhk, but who does that? As for the Worm level, is there a reason he should be doing that on a normal run? We saw that other guy do it on stream and Patrick obviously knows how to get there, but as a somewhat mediocre Spelunky player myself I don't have any sense of why he'd want to go there.
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