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MassRafTer posted:I'm not sure why I did this, I have drawn maybe three things in the past 11 years. I swear I used to be good. I like how the icebergs (?) look like the WWE scratch logo upside down.
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Jan 20, 2014 14:45
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I've only watched his explanation of the Bash at the Beach 2000 debacle from that shoot video. What I found amazing is his talent for almost taking the blame for something, then changing the specifics mid-story so it's still someone else's fault. I'm sure the vast majority of his version is bullshit, but at one point he says, "My mistake, what I did wrong, was I didn't call Hogan on Monday like I promised. I should have done that, I should have called him, that's my fault." But then it suddenly turns into "But Brad Siegel, (I think) who is in charge of the company at this point, he told me 'Don't call Hogan.' And I listened to him. I shouldn't have listened to him, I still should have called Hogan, it was the right thing to do, but I was told not to." Even when it looks like he may finally admit to a gently caress-up, even during a bullshit story, he still shifts the blame onto someone else. Grendels Dad posted:I like how the icebergs (?) look like the WWE scratch logo upside down. I think that was the point.
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Jan 20, 2014 14:55
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Pope Corky the IX posted:I've only watched his explanation of the Bash at the Beach 2000 debacle from that shoot video. What I found amazing is his talent for almost taking the blame for something, then changing the specifics mid-story so it's still someone else's fault. I'm sure the vast majority of his version is bullshit, but at one point he says, "My mistake, what I did wrong, was I didn't call Hogan on Monday like I promised. I should have done that, I should have called him, that's my fault." But then it suddenly turns into "But Brad Siegel, (I think) who is in charge of the company at this point, he told me 'Don't call Hogan.' And I listened to him. I shouldn't have listened to him, I still should have called Hogan, it was the right thing to do, but I was told not to." In fairness to Russo (possibly the only time I'll say that), the people Turner had from his company working for WCW had their heads up their asses. It's also possible that Brad though Russo would make things worse legally for WCW if he called Hulk.
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Jan 20, 2014 16:36
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El Gallinero Gros posted:In fairness to Russo (possibly the only time I'll say that), the people Turner had from his company working for WCW had their heads up their asses. It's also possible that Brad though Russo would make things worse legally for WCW if he called Hulk. That could very well be how it happened. It was just interesting to me that he starts that part of the story seemingly admitting to a mistake, then suddenly starts blaming it on Brad Siegel halfway through. So many of his shoot interviews are like that. It seems he's finally going to accept responsibility for something…almost there…but then it was actually this other guy's fault all along!
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Jan 20, 2014 16:41
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Grendels Dad posted:I like how the icebergs (?) look like the WWE scratch logo upside down. WWF, actually.
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Jan 20, 2014 18:05
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Pope Corky the IX posted:That could very well be how it happened. It was just interesting to me that he starts that part of the story seemingly admitting to a mistake, then suddenly starts blaming it on Brad Siegel halfway through. So many of his shoot interviews are like that. It seems he's finally going to accept responsibility for something…almost there…but then it was actually this other guy's fault all along! In all forms of storytelling, the SWERVE is the most important thing.
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Jan 20, 2014 18:54
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Grendels Dad posted:I like how the icebergs (?) look like the WWE scratch logo upside down. Oh my god, Miz killed WCW
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Jan 20, 2014 20:59
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Mattitude predates The Miz.
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Jan 20, 2014 22:14
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It's been almost a month since we last watched Nitro due to holidays, Clashes and Souled Out, so if you have missed Larry, the jobbers and the WCW Nitro Tree, you'll get two of those three tonight! You'll especially get jobbers. Joe Gomez is on the show. Devon Storm makes his debut. Billy Kidman is around too! What will be the fallout from Souled Out? Will Bischoff go through on his threats to the new tag team champions the Steiner Brothers? Will the Giant get his hands on Hogan? Will the nWo get its hands on DDP? Tune in tonight at 8 PM for Nitro and 7:30 PM for Cowboy Who! Following Nitro we will be watching TNA, and tonight TNA is the debut of JONNY FAIRPLAY. http://www.psp-tv.com/r/BadMoviesWorseWrestling
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Jan 22, 2014 00:29
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Nitro in minutes!
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Jan 22, 2014 01:57
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MassRafTer posted:It's been almost a month since we last watched Nitro due to holidays, Clashes and Souled Out, so if you have missed Larry, the jobbers and the WCW Nitro Tree, you'll get two of those three tonight! You'll especially get jobbers. Joe Gomez is on the show. Devon Storm makes his debut. Billy Kidman is around too! What will be the fallout from Souled Out? Will Bischoff go through on his threats to the new tag team champions the Steiner Brothers? Will the Giant get his hands on Hogan? Will the nWo get its hands on DDP? Tune in tonight at 8 PM for Nitro and 7:30 PM for Cowboy Who! After watching about twenty minutes of Souled Out I'm surprised everyone who watched more than I did isn't dead.
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Jan 22, 2014 02:02
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:After watching about twenty minutes of Souled Out I'm surprised everyone who watched more than I did isn't dead. That is the first PPV I have shown where I got feedback afterwards from people who just needed to express their confusion at the multiple levels of bad it was. As a wrestling event I think Uncensored 96 was worse, but this show just stunned people. It's funny because it was also the biggest audience I can remember for one of these! The Nitros tonight were full of jobbers but that Piper/Hogan angle that closed the second show was really well done in my book and kind of saved the night. It was kind of silly at first, but the way Piper became a wild animal with his son threatened was really well done. The crowd went insane afterwards and I almost sort of wanted to see the match. That's incredible because I know it is garbage and Hogan keeps the belt. The DDP angle where he's caught between Sting/Macho and the Outsiders was good too. 11/18/96 Back issue is up, and I present to you delicious WWF fanboy tears. Drink up WCW fans, the good times are here and they will never go away. quote:I must discuss with you the influence of the internet and the newsletters on the Monday night ratings. Even though someone may not have access to the internet or read a newsletter doesn't mean that they don't know what happens ahead of time on a taped Raw. Word of mouth is the strongest form of media to wrestling fans. Most likely, everyone who watches wrestling knows someone who can tell them the next four weeks of WWF Raw angles. If you already know what happened, you don't want to watch. I'm guilty of channel flipping for the same reason. Now here's Dave. quote:Hogan was on Regis & Kathy Lee wearing an NWO t-shirt, explaining that he's the same good guy he's always been, he just plays a renegade in wrestling so half the fans boo him and the other half cheer him. "Santa with Muscles" is getting great reviews. Gotcha! Actually the reviews are terrible and it died in its opening weekend. quote:We don't have much on the Disney tapings that took place starting 11/7 and continue through this week. The Sting angle is going to continue for a while because on a World Wide show taped for late December, he was in the same Marcel Marceau gimmick and black coat and didn't do any of his moves and used the reverse DDT as a finish. Besides Ciclope as a jobber, the only other newcomer at the taping we know of was Horace Boulder (Hulk's nephew Mike Bollea), who wasn't a jobber and didn't look all that bad. quote:Last week we thought Zero was a name taken from the Japanese fighter planes in World War II, but actually it's the name taken from the percentage of Nagayo's ability that she's shown on this tour. Match was bad, as was her later match beating Malia Hosaka.
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Jan 22, 2014 09:22
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quote:Last week we thought Zero was a name taken from the Japanese fighter planes in World War II, but actually it's the name taken from the percentage of Nagayo's ability that she's shown on this tour. Match was bad, as was her later match beating Malia Hosaka. I love snarky Dave Meltzer.
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Jan 22, 2014 13:52
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In 1995 WCW and NJPW worked two day show in Pyongyang. Here's an interview with Ric Flair talking about it. http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/01/ric-flair-north-korea/
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Jan 23, 2014 02:02
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Rodney the Piper posted:I love snarky Dave Meltzer. I loved the "escapes (as opposed to being released)" line about Santa with Muscles one from last week/last page.
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Jan 23, 2014 05:51
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Dave loving the poo poo out of this Rocky kid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHYzcsSvtOg That's not a promo that Dave's watching, but from the Survivor series but it's still  And he loves this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7yLbfNywhI
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Jan 23, 2014 08:00
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LordPants posted:And he loves this:
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Jan 23, 2014 08:04
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Even considering it was the 90's and the business was a lot different, I'm really stunned at WCW's terrible presentation. They have boring heels talking over everything for the entire broadcast, and Scott Hall is nearly unintelligible. Nothing is clearly developed in terms of booking, everyone just saunters in place and the results of PPVs don't matter in the slightest. Almost everyone outside of Hall and Nash is made to look unimportant on a level that would make Triple H blush. Getting an angle with the Outsiders is "Hall and Nash promo on you while you stand there and say/do nothing. Then maybe there will be a match where they barely wrestle." The production quality is bad (the WCW stage is lit like Dracula's castle), no one can promo, and much of the show is recaps of things that happened twenty minutes ago or the announcers talking about those recaps. A lot of the other actual top-tier guys make sporadic and brief appearances at best. Somehow this went on for a number of years and was quite successful. I have seen some bad WWF shows from this era too but I hesitate to say they ever got that bad. Vince McMahon probably poo poo a brick watching something as bad as Souled Out and knowing that company was beating him at the time. LordPants posted:Dave loving the poo poo out of this Rocky kid. This took 43 seconds, didn't have anyone making him look bad for no reason, and got to the point. While it's certainly nothing special, he at least doesn't mumble into the mic or ask a fifty-year old skank if he can see their titties after the show. Three snowflakes. quote:And he loves this: This is a million times better than any WCW video package I have ever seen and would be received well even today, which is rare for material from this time.
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Jan 23, 2014 08:34
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I hate that he both freaks out about pink tights and trots out that tired old line of wrestling not being ballet. Not only is the gay panic problematic, but ballet is one of the toughest things on the loving planet. Edit: I should probably mention that those things aside, that was a loving money promo and it's shocking how much time WWE spends on poo poo that doesn't do one fiftieth as much to build a feud as that does nowadays.
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Jan 23, 2014 09:14
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Only in the 90's. Things are too PC today.
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Jan 23, 2014 09:17
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LividLiquid posted:I hate that he both freaks out about pink tights and trots out that tired old line of wrestling not being ballet. Ballet could be twice as tough as anything else on the planet and it would still be half as tough as Stone Cold Steve Austin.
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Jan 23, 2014 09:24
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I want to see the nutcracker give the mouse king a stone cold stunner.
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Jan 23, 2014 14:02
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MassRafTer posted:Ballet could be twice as tough as anything else on the planet and it would still be half as tough as Stone Cold Steve Austin. Could only read that in Jim Ross' voice.
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Jan 23, 2014 14:12
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LividLiquid posted:I hate that he both freaks out about pink tights and trots out that tired old line of wrestling not being ballet. Why can't heels be heels anymore? Heels are supposed to have ill-informed, lovely opinions. That's why you don't like them.
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Jan 23, 2014 14:15
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dsriggs posted:Why can't heels be heels anymore? Heels are supposed to have ill-informed, lovely opinions. That's why you don't like them. Because bad people can't have wrong opinions or do bad things. It might hurt someones feelings and clearly you're promoting that belief or behavior by having them do it. You know despite them being the villain.
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Jan 23, 2014 16:23
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Well, it is kind of a problem when you have a racist redneck stable and they get over as faces.
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Jan 23, 2014 16:33
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Even considering it was the 90's and the business was a lot different, I'm really stunned at WCW's terrible presentation. They have boring heels talking over everything for the entire broadcast, and Scott Hall is nearly unintelligible. Nothing is clearly developed in terms of booking, everyone just saunters in place and the results of PPVs don't matter in the slightest. Almost everyone outside of Hall and Nash is made to look unimportant on a level that would make Triple H blush. Getting an angle with the Outsiders is "Hall and Nash promo on you while you stand there and say/do nothing. Then maybe there will be a match where they barely wrestle." The production quality is bad (the WCW stage is lit like Dracula's castle), no one can promo, and much of the show is recaps of things that happened twenty minutes ago or the announcers talking about those recaps. A lot of the other actual top-tier guys make sporadic and brief appearances at best. Sorry but I'm not sure, are you talking about WCW's presentation in general, or NWO Souled Out having lovely presentation? I always liked the presentation of Nitro, I thought it felt big time with the well lit set and big arenas. Raw felt grungier and darker.
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Jan 23, 2014 16:35
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Yeah, I think Nitro's presentation in the 90s was really similar to RAW, actually. I can't put my finger on when RAW went from dark and underground feeling to the way it is now, though. Maybe it was gradual?
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Jan 23, 2014 17:29
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Zack_Gochuck posted:Yeah, I think Nitro's presentation in the 90s was really similar to RAW, actually. I can't put my finger on when RAW went from dark and underground feeling to the way it is now, though. Maybe it was gradual? It was definitely gradual. To me the biggest shift was around 2003 when they had that big slanted tron with the lights all around it.  I hated that set.
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Jan 23, 2014 17:34
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Halloween Jack posted:Well, it is kind of a problem when you have a racist redneck stable and they get over as faces. You can have bad guys say these things; just not on a wrestling show. Or if they do, it needs to be made far more clear that they're heels.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:01
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Zack_Gochuck posted:Yeah, I think Nitro's presentation in the 90s was really similar to RAW, actually. I can't put my finger on when RAW went from dark and underground feeling to the way it is now, though. Maybe it was gradual? I definitely feel like it was sort of soon after the "Attitude Era" was being played out- wrestling was starting to cool down again so the WWF/E tried desperately to keep the momentum going by piling on the spectacle.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:05
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Halloween Jack posted:Well, it is kind of a problem when you have a racist redneck stable and they get over as faces. Just have them wrote a country song about rap sucking. That'll bring the heat.
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Jan 23, 2014 18:40
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ayn rand hand job posted:Just have them wrote a country song about rap sucking. That'll bring the heat. Also fill the heel stable with good wrestlers that the crowd has a connection with. The other stable is just non-wrestlers.
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Jan 23, 2014 19:33
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bobkatt013 posted:Also fill the heel stable with good wrestlers that the crowd has a connection with.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:10
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Halloween Jack posted:Curly Bill Curly Bill was added later.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:10
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Maxwell Lord posted:I definitely feel like it was sort of soon after the "Attitude Era" was being played out- wrestling was starting to cool down again so the WWF/E tried desperately to keep the momentum going by piling on the spectacle. Over the years, the WWE went from heavy metal and pyro to Nickleback and stage lights, but it took them a while to get there. I'm really picky when it comes to music, and I'm not too happy with most of what the WWE uses right now. In most cases, I prefer WCW's stock music to stuff like Cody Rhodes' and AJ Lee's themes. While the Monday Night Wars were in full force, the WWF had far superior production, visuals and music. I never understood how a company owned by Ted Turner (and Time Warner) could produce something that didn't look as polished as the WWF, especially with their budget. A lot of the stuff listed above as WCW's faults are true, but a two hour Nitro was packed with enough wrestling and characters to keep you entertained. The WWF just couldn't cut it a lot of times. WCW had too much of everything and they didn't know how to utilize new stars, but the WWF didn't have enough, and they filled their shows with promos and recaps, while the actual wrestling wasn't better than WCW, it was pretty much kick-punch-finisher when compared to WCW's display of technicians. But WWE's revisionist history teaches us differently. Example: recently, I've been reading, again, about how Canadian Stampede is one of the greatest PPV's ever. I watched it when it aired and all I could think about was how the WWF was fighting really hard to keep up with WCW. Anyway... Every discussion about WCW leads me to the conclusion that we, the fans, didn't get closure. We just lost WCW, in a bad way, and the company isn't celebrated, but mostly mocked. I see a lot of comments online pointing out Russo and all those 'on a pole' matches, but I think that's mostly younger fans who learned about WCW after it ended, which means they've learned a lot about its bad sides. WCW wasn't all Russo, pinata on a pole matches, or Oklahoma. I remember it as a kick-rear end fed that gave me Sting, Jericho, Raven, cruiserweights, luchadores I had no chance of seeing anywhere else, the nWo, Norman Smiley and the Saturday Night Alumni (this would be a great band name)and it definitely made wrestling popular in the late 90s. WCW made it insanely popular, the WWF anted up their game and ended up winning. But before their rebranding with that crappy logo and music, before the Giant and Jericho left, WCW was awesome.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:57
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triplexpac posted:Sorry but I'm not sure, are you talking about WCW's presentation in general, or NWO Souled Out having lovely presentation? I'm kinda commenting on both, but it's not like any of these problems changed that much post-Hogan heel turn until the end of the fed. Of course both shows looked lovely compared to today, though, that's true. I really don't like WCW's sets even then, but I wasn't raised on this stuff. I see better production values than WCW in WWF even at the same time.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:02
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Rad R. posted:While the Monday Night Wars were in full force, the WWF had far superior production, visuals and music. I never understood how a company owned by Ted Turner (and Time Warner) could produce something that didn't look as polished as the WWF, especially with their budget. I'm really wracking my brain here, what about WWF's production in 1998 made it far superior to WCW? Like, here's Raw's entrance from 1998:  And here's WCW Nitro from 1998:  Sorry I couldn't find a good 1998 shot, but really the set was just a big screen with two "Raw is War" signs on either side.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:09
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Rad R. posted:I prefer WCW's stock music to stuff like Cody Rhodes' and AJ Lee's themes. I don't know why the changed Cody's theme to a butt rock version of the same drat thing when his old one was pretty goofy and funny sounding.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:09
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I like Cody's current theme 
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Jan 23, 2014 21:15
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