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Retarded Pimp posted:"Frankly I had enjoyed the war." I read through this and the guy reminds me of Theodore Roosevelt (TR's son): http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt Retarded Pimp posted:"Frankly I had enjoyed the war." I read this and this guy reminded me if Theodore Roosevelt JR (TR's son): http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt,_Jr.
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Jan 24, 2014 13:38
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It looks like this warming climate of ours is good for some things, such as getting lost WW1 Alpine troopers a proper burial...quote:In the decades that followed the armistice, the world warmed up and the glaciers began to retreat, revealing the debris of the White War. The material that, beginning in the 1990s, began to flood out of the mountains was remarkably well preserved. It included a love letter, addressed to Maria and never sent, and an ode to a louse, ‘friend of my long days’, scribbled on a page of an Austrian soldier’s diary. drat that's chilling. Then again Ötzi died a violent death, too, and had blood of four different people on his weapons, so this is far from being the oldest milhist related relic from the melting snowcaps.
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Jan 24, 2014 17:51
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InspectorBloor posted:Shhhhh I was under the impression that the Ottomans had a lot of dedicated looters in their army, or is this just the sickly 19th century Ottomans I'm thinking of? quote:Starship Troopers The movie is better than the book. Also, some phenomenal sfx work.
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Jan 24, 2014 18:13
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the Ottomans would like you to acknowledge their legendary logistic skills.
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:The movie is better than the book. Also, some phenomenal sfx work. There are plenty people who would demand you take it outside for that comment.
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Jan 24, 2014 19:43
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:I was under the impression that the Ottomans had a lot of dedicated looters in their army, or is this just the sickly 19th century Ottomans I'm thinking of? That's part of the good logistics my friend: camping your army on enemy turf so they gently caress his poo poo up and not yours.
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Jan 24, 2014 19:46
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ArchangeI posted:There are plenty people who would demand you take it outside for that comment. I haven't read the book, but the movie is brilliant.
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Jan 24, 2014 21:18
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:I was under the impression that the Ottomans had a lot of dedicated looters in their army, or is this just the sickly 19th century Ottomans I'm thinking of? You're thinking about the Akinci. They served as light cavalry and reconaissance, but their main purpose was to strike fear into the enemy and force them to divert troops. They were payed in loot. By the 2nd half of the 16th century, they were mostly made up of crimean tartars. Their raids struck very deep into Empire territory. Over the Brenner pass, and also into Italy. The city of Vicenca was so scared about them reappearing that they almost bancrupted the city so that they could issue ships for the battle of Lepanto. They stole anything of value, took slaves and then burned and killed anything that couldn't be brought back. Back then they were called "Renner und Brenner" which means runners and burners. You can visit "Wehrkirchen" in Austria which are fortified churches (I live about 3min away from one of these), there's also caves everywhere near the border of Hungary that were used by the peasants in order to hide from these fuckers. They're not the reason why Ottoman logistics were so great, but Jannissary education produced excellent officers that were picked and schooled according to their talent. There's an example of an inventory list of a fortress at the danube in Serbia in the book that I mentioned. The quartermaster lists everything in the place with great detail, down to pillowcases, kitchen pots and forks. There's many of these inventory books left. The Ottomans were very systematical about building and maintaining supply depots along their regular routes of attack into Hungary. The timar system also kept local nobles in check and the peasants relatively happy. You practically don't have larger peasant revolts under Ottoman rule, the Janissaries killed off the banditry that plagued the balkans for centuries, while hardly interfering with the locals - because they're payed well and cared for if they're disabled or make it to the retirement age (if). Everything looks pretty good, up until the beginning of the 17th century, when economic crisis strikes Spain (choking on the silver of the new world) and with it the Ottomans. It's one or 2 decades before that, that the state apparatus slowly descends into incredible nepotism, good rules get abolished or ignored, anarchy and wild intrigue etc (and a few batshit insane sultans that liked to shoot canons at people sunday boating close to the palace). Things really turn to poo poo when the state is forced to debase it's currency and the Janissaries don't get their pay (they're a standing army btw). By then being a Janissary is hereditary, you're allowed to marry. All kind of shady folks manage to get into the corps, because :benefits:. By then they're hardly more than a self-service outlet that barely differs from simple bandits. Wait, they're worse at fighting. Sometimes the corps just sets fire to Constantinople, because they feel their pay is too low and needs a rise. Looting the grand viziers palace also seemed to be a favourite of the corps. Power Khan fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jan 24, 2014 |
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Jan 24, 2014 21:19
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EDIT: Beaten by a Ottoman history master  .
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Jan 24, 2014 21:25
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InspectorBloor posted:On another occasion, I read the dates how fast Suleyman the Magnificient moves against Belgrade. I remember beating this guy all the time in age of empires.
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Jan 24, 2014 22:08
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Nenonen posted:It looks like this warming climate of ours is good for some things, such as getting lost WW1 Alpine troopers a proper burial... InspectorBloor posted:Everything looks pretty good, up until the beginning of the 17th century, when economic crisis strikes Spain (choking on the silver of the new world) and with it the Ottomans. It's one or 2 decades before that, that the state apparatus slowly descends... HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jan 24, 2014 |
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Jan 24, 2014 22:49
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I had a question regarding the diesel/gasoline differences during World War II, especially regarding the Soviets and Germans. It is my impression (from a surface look at the subject) that diesel engines gave the Soviets a massive advantage by their fuel not freezing in the extreme cold, while the gasoline powered Germans often had to keep their engines running even when fuel was crucially short. Did this lead to all future heavy equipment switching to a diesel engine, or were there advantages to gasoline engines in theaters where cold wasn't a factor?
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Jan 24, 2014 23:19
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a travelling HEGEL posted:Logistics is always the weak point, always. That was why Wallenstein was such a good general--it wasn't his grasp of tactics or anything, he only took the field once or twice as the Generalissimo. It was because his ability to procure goods and raise money was flat spooky. He may have been the best least bad logistician of his age. (It's partially because he was the largest landowner in Bohemia.) AutoArgus posted:There's a bit about how "Everyone Fights" where they have a laugh at how old armies had such large support/logistics tails but the good old MI give the priest and cook rifles and blast them down to the surface too.
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Jan 24, 2014 23:27
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Arquinsiel posted:This was something that struck me about Ike. He spends ages talking about making sure stuff gets from Port A to Unit B via truck/train/donkey/old women and then occasionally says "then some general said he wanted to do this thing and I'd go okay".
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Jan 24, 2014 23:44
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a travelling HEGEL posted:Yeah, because that's what makes you win. The flashy poo poo is all on top--beneath it is the Ottoman government itemizing pillowcases and spoons. There's also multiple ways of doing logistics badly. I'll have to do an effortpost one of these days about how Jackie Fisher saved the Royal millions of pounds by actually paying attention to what kind of pillowcases and spoons were being bought by the Admiralty.
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Jan 25, 2014 01:16
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Arquinsiel posted:They also don't seem to realise that the Fleet is their logistics arm, and is a separate force to the MI. Also given the tone of the book I think the narrator is supposed to be an idiot. Yeah, they're also forgetting Planet Army Base and nuclear power being functionally infinite in that setting. They've literally reduced moral and ethical matters down to a matter of quantifiable mathematics. So basically anyone citing the book in a discussion of teeth and tails is forgetting that its fiction (and half the book anyways). Raises interesting discussion perhaps about what technology could potentially do to revolutionize logistics (like how canned food was drat near like getting new guns) but its still fiction.
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Jan 25, 2014 01:22
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AutoArgus posted:Yeah, they're also forgetting Planet Army Base and nuclear power being functionally infinite in that setting. They've literally reduced moral and ethical matters down to a matter of quantifiable mathematics. So basically anyone citing the book in a discussion of teeth and tails is forgetting that its fiction (and half the book anyways). Raises interesting discussion perhaps about what technology could potentially do to revolutionize logistics (like how canned food was drat near like getting new guns) but its still fiction.
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Jan 25, 2014 01:25
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Arquinsiel posted:Yeah but it's essentially a strawman argument for fascism. It's not intended to be a good portrayal of military life, it's intended to show that you can wrap bad ideas up in a good story and people will think they're awesome. Yeah, I had an older guy in a college class no joke say that people should have to be in the military to earn citizenship "like in Starship Troopers."
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Jan 25, 2014 01:41
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Pharmaskittle posted:Yeah, I had an older guy in a college class no joke say that people should have to be in the military to earn citizenship "like in Starship Troopers."
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Jan 25, 2014 01:45
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Mojo Threepwood posted:I had a question regarding the diesel/gasoline differences during World War II, especially regarding the Soviets and Germans. It is my impression (from a surface look at the subject) that diesel engines gave the Soviets a massive advantage by their fuel not freezing in the extreme cold, while the gasoline powered Germans often had to keep their engines running even when fuel was crucially short. It's been my experience that diesels are usually more difficult to work with in colder weather, the fuel will jell unless you throw in additives and even now most diesel trucks have electrical plug ins to help start in cold weather. I think the biggest reasons are diesel fuel doesn't tend to light up when you get hit by a HEAT round like gasoline often did and diesel engines usually make more low end torque.
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Jan 25, 2014 02:12
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I always thought the book and movie were both meant to be satire?
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Jan 25, 2014 02:16
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The book is serious. The movie is satire. The Forever War does a similar thing as Starship Troopers, but is much better.
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Jan 25, 2014 02:17
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:There's also multiple ways of doing logistics badly. I'll have to do an effortpost one of these days about how Jackie Fisher saved the Royal millions of pounds by actually paying attention to what kind of pillowcases and spoons were being bought by the Admiralty.
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Jan 25, 2014 02:22
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Agean90 posted:The book is serious. The movie is satire.
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Jan 25, 2014 02:25
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much better. The Forever War takes a good amount of science rather seriously as a major aspect of the story. Relativistic time dilation, mass acceleration effects, etc.
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Jan 25, 2014 02:33
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Arquinsiel posted:The book is Satire, and The Forever War IS better, but in a very different way. Is there anything that goes into depth on how its satire? Not disagreeing with you, but it would be an interesting read. And when I say the Forever War is similar, its in that its about mans in space with power armor. The tone is radically different.
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Jan 25, 2014 02:35
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The other thing people tend to miss about the book is that the Federation military doesn't actually work very well. All the successful engagements the book describes involves the MI dropping out of orbit on an undefended location, blowing some stuff up, then extracting before a response arrives. Every time the MI engages in conventional warfare they end up taking horrific casualties as they run out of ammo and are overwhelmed. e: I don't think Starship Troopers is a satire, but the fact that the book is devoid of internal criticism of the philosophy of the society it describes does not mean that the reader is not invited to make that criticism. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Jan 25, 2014 |
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Jan 25, 2014 02:37
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Agean90 posted:Is there anything that goes into depth on how its satire? Not disagreeing with you, but it would be an interesting read. It's not satire. Heinlein just wrote a lot of books for teenage boys, and a lot of them are structured like "here's what seems like a good idea, explain to yourself why it's actually bad".
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Jan 25, 2014 02:51
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Been listening to Max Hastings Catastrophe 1914 for the past two days. Very good so far. I got Hastings Inferno for 5 bucks on audible (still that price), but I've been listing to Beevors book for a Second World War narrative at the moment. I do like Hastings writing style, its opinionated, but I think that's a plus (especially his disdain for the Austro-Hungarian leadership, which is quite humorous), so I might give Inferno a listen too, at the least I'm interested in what his Churchill book will be like. I really can't recommend audible enough if you have a commute where you can't read (in my case driving) or just like audio books the amount of content you can get with a credit is kind of  Plus you can return things if it turns out it sucks or you want to switch subjects....which I do a lot.
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Jan 25, 2014 02:52
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I just read like 50 posts in this thread and I am completely lost. Are we talking about a novel?
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Jan 25, 2014 02:54
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gfanikf posted:Been listening to Max Hastings Catastrophe 1914 for the past two days. Very good so far. I got Hastings Inferno for 5 bucks on audible (still that price), but I've been listing to Beevors book for a Second World War narrative at the moment. I do like Hastings writing style, its opinionated, but I think that's a plus (especially his disdain for the Austro-Hungarian leadership, which is quite humorous), so I might give Inferno a listen too, at the least I'm interested in what his Churchill book will be like. I've been listening to Castles of Steel for the last 2 weeks on audiobook since I drive a lot and it's so nice, such a great way to get my reading in when I'm busy working.
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Jan 25, 2014 02:57
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bewbies posted:I just read like 50 posts in this thread and I am completely lost. Are we talking about a novel? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers_%28film%29
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Jan 25, 2014 02:58
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Agean90 posted:Is there anything that goes into depth on how its satire? Not disagreeing with you, but it would be an interesting read. You are correct about the Forever War though, it paints a very different picture of the idea of service and definitely paints the social changes on Earth as something totally bewildering thus leaving the soldiers fighting for the ideals of a society that they don't even know about. To be fair though, Word of God on it is that Haldeman intended to write Vietnam in space, while Starship Troopers predates that war and is more like the Korean war in space. They're very much a pro-/con- war pair of books, and both of them are worth reading.
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Jan 25, 2014 03:00
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gfanikf posted:Been listening to Max Hastings Catastrophe 1914 for the past two days. Very good so far. I got Hastings Inferno for 5 bucks on audible (still that price), but I've been listing to Beevors book for a Second World War narrative at the moment. I do like Hastings writing style, its opinionated, but I think that's a plus (especially his disdain for the Austro-Hungarian leadership, which is quite humorous), so I might give Inferno a listen too, at the least I'm interested in what his Churchill book will be like. A lot of AH leaders really were complete idiots. Austria-Hungary attacked Serbia - a tiny, poor, war-exhausted country, using superior numbers, better weapons, the advantage of being able to choose where and when to fight, AND LOST. TWICE.
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Jan 25, 2014 03:07
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uPen posted:I've been listening to Castles of Steel for the last 2 weeks on audiobook since I drive a lot and it's so nice, such a great way to get my reading in when I'm busy working. my dad posted:A lot of AH leaders really were complete idiots. Austria-Hungary attacked Serbia - a tiny, poor, war-exhausted country, using superior numbers, better weapons, the advantage of being able to choose where and when to fight, AND LOST. TWICE. Oh I totally agree, but still most writers usually use more restrained language, Hastings does not and I like that. It reflects the exasperation you have when you read about it. I love his description of one as the worst type, stupid and enthusiastic.
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Jan 25, 2014 03:18
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gfanikf posted:Been listening to Max Hastings Catastrophe 1914 for the past two days. Very good so far. I got Hastings Inferno for 5 bucks on audible (still that price), but I've been listing to Beevors book for a Second World War narrative at the moment. I do like Hastings writing style, its opinionated, but I think that's a plus (especially his disdain for the Austro-Hungarian leadership, which is quite humorous), so I might give Inferno a listen too, at the least I'm interested in what his Churchill book will be like. Inferno is a good enjoyable overview of the war but if you like Hastings then Armageddon and Retribution are must reads. They cover the last years and change of the wars in Europe and the Pacific. His examination of the topic which must not be named from the Pacific war I thought was particularly good along with his coverage of the soviet invasion of Manchuria.
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Jan 25, 2014 03:35
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Mojo Threepwood posted:I had a question regarding the diesel/gasoline differences during World War II, especially regarding the Soviets and Germans. It is my impression (from a surface look at the subject) that diesel engines gave the Soviets a massive advantage by their fuel not freezing in the extreme cold, while the gasoline powered Germans often had to keep their engines running even when fuel was crucially short. Retarded Pimp posted:It's been my experience that diesels are usually more difficult to work with in colder weather, the fuel will jell unless you throw in additives and even now most diesel trucks have electrical plug ins to help start in cold weather. Yeah, diesel is heaver than gasoline. It will freeze at higher temperatures than gasoline does. I don't have a source on hand for this, but essentially, the Soviets had access to American-produced diesel and and lube oil additives (cloud point depressants and pour point depressants, respectively) that enabled their tanks to run in colder weather than the Germans, who did not, as far as I know. Essentially, these additives prevented the diesel fuel or motor oil from gelling up/freezing in cold weather. Better war-making through chemistry
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Jan 25, 2014 04:15
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Inferno is a good enjoyable overview of the war but if you like Hastings then Armageddon and Retribution are must reads. They cover the last years and change of the wars in Europe and the Pacific. His examination of the topic which must not be named from the Pacific war I thought was particularly good along with his coverage of the soviet invasion of Manchuria. So uh... what was his view on it?
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Jan 25, 2014 04:35
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:So uh... what was his view on it? That the bombings were justified due to the vacillation of the Imperial council and that a nation that just dumped multiple billions of dollars into a weapon system isn't going to not use said system especially when at war with a nation that's made clear its going to fight to the bitter end. e: Also he sets aside an entire chapter to explain in minute details everything that happened between Trinity and Hiroshima that sealed Japan's fate and IIRC the is it justified section was its own chapter as well. Raskolnikov38 fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Jan 25, 2014 |
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Jan 25, 2014 06:00
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gfanikf posted:Only downside is no footnotes, but Amazon seems to be pairing more and more up with buy a kindle book get cheap audio and vice versa, They do this? I have a bunch of mil-hist audiobooks that I'd love to get a Kindle version for cheap if only so I can do quick looks for references. Also because I have no idea how to spell the names of the French generals I keep hearing about. There was some guy named "Monjan" the Butcher in Verdun? Whatever! On a slightly off-topic note, I bought the beat-the-average audiobook Humble Bundle purely because I recognized George Guidall as the narrator from the "An Army at Dawn" audiobook. He has a wizened old man quality to his voice that made it sound like I was listening to grandpa talking about his exploits in the North African campaign (lots of gently caress-ups there)
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Jan 25, 2014 07:21
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:There's also multiple ways of doing logistics badly. I'll have to do an effortpost one of these days about how Jackie Fisher saved the Royal millions of pounds by actually paying attention to what kind of pillowcases and spoons were being bought by the Admiralty. Please do! The Royal Navy pre-Fisher is hilarious. "Gunnery training? But that will make our ships dirty!  "
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Jan 25, 2014 07:35
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