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I like D. Give me the D.
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Jan 24, 2014 14:36
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A choice.
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Jan 24, 2014 14:42
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I like B the most.
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Jan 24, 2014 14:42
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D is the proper flag.
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Jan 24, 2014 14:45
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This is a wonderful LP - I love the different styles! Looks like my Islamic poetry LP will be delayed for another year.... It'd look terrible compared to this!
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Jan 24, 2014 16:36
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Don't B ridiculous, guys.
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Jan 24, 2014 17:01
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Byzantiny Vote Countcode:
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Jan 24, 2014 18:04
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sniper4625 posted:Byzantiny Vote Count C for Constantinople.
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Jan 24, 2014 18:37
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B!
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Jan 24, 2014 19:00
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B for cape-wearing Emperors.
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Jan 24, 2014 19:34
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I think even if B doesn't become our emblem, it should become the heraldic colours/cape design of our dynasty.
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Jan 24, 2014 19:39
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That update was the best.  C because it looks cooler.
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Jan 24, 2014 20:02
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D is number one byzantiny flag!
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Jan 24, 2014 23:06
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A because our Basileus' adorable little girl can't be wrong. (You idiots, that girl could have your eyes gouged out and your testicles crushed)
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Jan 25, 2014 01:11
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B
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Jan 25, 2014 02:08
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B
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Jan 25, 2014 03:34
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A 6 B 12 C 8 D 18
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Jan 25, 2014 04:49
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D
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Jan 25, 2014 06:20
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Have a D-lightful flag, Senators.
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Jan 25, 2014 06:24
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Does the mod you're using have a reworked decadence system?
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Jan 25, 2014 17:13
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D
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Jan 25, 2014 18:43
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Rejected Fate posted:Does the mod you're using have a reworked decadence system? No, which is one thing I really do miss now that the CK2+ continuation has tragically lost its way.
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Jan 25, 2014 18:54
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Patter Song posted:A because our Basileus' adorable little girl can't be wrong. Going with this, A.
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Jan 25, 2014 19:04
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I believe voting is already closed. Observe, exhibit A:Rincewind posted:Have a D-lightful flag, Senators.
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Jan 25, 2014 19:07
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Rincewind posted:No, which is one thing I really do miss now that the CK2+ continuation has tragically lost its way. What's the story with CK2+? I know that Wiz stopped working on it, but it's been a while since I've played CK2 or looked at it's mods.
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Jan 25, 2014 19:40
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Dr. Tough posted:What's the story with CK2+? I know that Wiz stopped working on it, but it's been a while since I've played CK2 or looked at it's mods. Quality control has been less than perfect, those in charge of the continuation made some questionable decisions when it came to including other mods in CK2+. It's better than it was some time ago apparently, though.
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Jan 25, 2014 19:50
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YF-23 posted:Quality control has been less than perfect, those in charge of the continuation made some questionable decisions when it came to including other mods in CK2+. It's better than it was some time ago apparently, though. This is an understatement. Though I prefer it to not having a mod, there's a lot of problems with CK2+ now. The tech system has been rebalanced, in such a way that all but three merchant republics can't build trade posts at game start in the first dozen or so bookmarks due to not having enough trade tech. The levy system has been altered in a way that broke on the second loadup, so now every country can build every other country's unique levies. But the big problem, as with most mod-bloat afflicted Paradox mods, is provinces. Oh, lordy.  Check this poo poo out. Genoa is one province in the vanilla 1066 start. Here, it's five (Nice doesn't count, belonging to the HRE initially). Sardinia has gone from two provinces to five, as well. Northern Italy has been shuffled around, which I mostly like, but look at Mantua (or Mantoa, thanks to the localization mod). You can barely read those names here, and they're completely illegible zoomed out. Also, see the tiny island off Pisa? That's Elbe, and that's its own province. With three holdings, no less. This also breaks the trade balance over its knee, since Genoa now has eight extra nearby provinces to build trading posts on--which they can do at the start, and Venice can't.  This is a big one. You see those islands on the Dalmatian coast? Those make up THREE provinces. Eight holdings between them. There's another small one down the coast by Greece. These all have bizarre straits. Comparatively, Constantinople no longer has straits across Marmara.  Wales has gone from six provinces in three duchies, to eleven in four. England, Scotland, and Ireland have all gained anywhere from one to three provinces each. All of these have around three holdings, too.  This is the province of Barrois. The one I've selected. I have only selected one province in this image. I don't think I need to say anything more.  The tiny island in the middle of the image is Oleron, which is its own three-holding province. Also take note of the Petty Kingdom of NEUSTRIA, which shows up in the 867 start now where Normandy is otherwise. I could go on for a while longer, but I think this is an apt summation. There have been some good map changes--shuffled provinces in Northern Italy, a pass between Trent and Innsbruck, some others--but they don't compare to the bad ones. I still prefer this to not having a mod, but it's bad. It's made worse by the fact that the CK2+ team is made up of assholes who won't take criticism in any medium except their official forum on the Paradox forums, and dismiss all criticism as "whining" anyway.
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Jan 26, 2014 02:25
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When I saw what the CK2+ changes had done to Ireland, it finally made me pull the trigger to try the new HIP combo-mod. Tutorial Island is sacrosact. Everyone knows that the duchy of Munster has three counties. Not in CK2+ anymore!
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Jan 26, 2014 03:15
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I should clarify, some of these have been undone in the latest version of CK2+. The Dalmatian islands are gone, Wales has lost two provinces, Sardinia is down two, Oleron and Elba are gone. Genoa is still five, though, and I'm having other weird problems, some of which seem to have been consequences of the province count being lowered.
Redeye Flight fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 06:52
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Gosh I've had a hiatus from CK2 and thus CK2+. The big things in CK2+ that were so good for me were the decadence revamp and the levy revamp so it wasn't so easy for one state to have a huge amount of levies. Are there any mods that have equivalents around any-more?
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Jan 26, 2014 18:02
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Rejected Fate posted:Gosh I've had a hiatus from CK2 and thus CK2+. The big things in CK2+ that were so good for me were the decadence revamp and the levy revamp so it wasn't so easy for one state to have a huge amount of levies. Are there any mods that have equivalents around any-more? The game itself has massively nerfed levies for large states, so you might just want to try vanilla and see how that does it for you before slapping on new mods.
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Jan 26, 2014 19:19
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Amass money, murder all adult Seljuk rulers (search the world for the best spymaster possible for an enhanced offense and defense). Wait till Seljuk Empire disintegrates and invade. Rinse and repeat. Pros: Most cost-effective plan by far. Mix with elements from the best invasion plans. Cons: There's a substantial chance that retaliation from discovered attempts will get you killed, so keep some money and titles in reserve for your successor to utilize, and needless to say only enact this strategy if you're willing to risk your own life. Also, you'll take a mild hit to diplomacy from 'dishonorable', but who cares about that. D Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 19:26
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God. Byzantium. This was my tutorial. I tried playing on Tutorial Island, but all it did was convince me I made a huge mistake. Then I played Byzantium. I never had so much fun fumbling my way through the game. Even if I ended up in a succession crisis so bad the only provinces that weren't rebelling were in my demesne. I had so much fun clawing my way back up to being more than an emperor in name. Then I got a Jihad called for Jerusalem, Antioch and Alexandria at the same time. I am so going to enjoy this LP.
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Jan 27, 2014 08:30
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I vote D on the condition that you make the laurel a little less cruddy looking. As for grander strategy, the Seljuks are at least our equals and the only way to win a meaningful victory against an evenly matched opponent is to catch them in a moment of weakness. Right now they're riding high with an energetic ruler and an expanding realm while we're still picking up the pieces after a century of instability and decline and our Ionian holdings are still diminished and vulnerable. Therefor, our first priority must be to Secure our Borders. Belligerent states that threaten the territorial integrity of the empire, such as those drat separatists in Serbia should be dealt with as the emperor sees fit, but larger military entanglements (such as the recently proposed and eminently misguided invasion of Italy) are to be avoided at all costs as their greatest immediate danger, quite aside from the possibility of defeat, is that while our armies are occupied elsewhere our subjects will grow restive and the Seljuks will be on us like a shark that scents blood.
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Jan 27, 2014 09:45
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I know voting is closed but B is a good design. It would be nice to see it put to use if we ever need a new flag.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:15
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Ghost Stromboli posted:I know voting is closed but B is a good design. It would be nice to see it put to use if we ever need a new flag. It'll be useful come Vicky 2 if we get there.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:25
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PART SIX: Cloak and Dagger (1094-) (FULL DISCLOSURE: The in-game Iouliana Konmenos died during the course of this update and I hastily named my next daughter Iouliana instead. So on the off-chance Iouliana's character sheet appears again (i.e., if like half my heirs die and she becomes empress or something crazy like that), her age might not line up with what we saw before. But that's the risk of writing an LP from the perspective of a child in CK2 I guess.) Excerpts from the Alexiad By Iouliana Komnene On November 27th, 1094, after consultation with the reconvened Senate, Alexios decreed that a new standard be flown from the ramparts of Costantinople: A Chi Rho framed by a laurel wreath.  For his part, Alexios favored a simpler design consisting only of the Chi Rho on a field of red, but wishing for a productive working relationship with the Senate he let them win this symbolic victory. Indeed, the entire process of designing and approving the flag proved richly educational, for though at this time the Senate lacked formal, organized factions, loose blocs were already forming and their favored flag designs roughly corresponded to their philosophies. The old pagan god Janus had two faces; one gazing back at the past and one looking ahead at the future. A false idol of a more barbaric time, of course, but perhaps a useful framework for understanding the mindset of the Senate in its early days of renewed power and relevance.  The largest faction called themselves the Old Romans, who looked backwards at the imperial glories of antiquity and keenly sought their reclamation. Why couldn't the empire be restored? Why couldn't all of the vicissitudes and traumas of the last thousand years simply be rolled back? In short, they were the ideological heirs of the pagan magnates of Old Rome who again and again beseeched their Christian emperors for the restoration of the altar of Victory to the Senate house. By analogy only, of course-- it is not my place for me to doubt the sincerity of the Christian faith of any of the gentlemen and women of the modern Senatorial class.  The second largest faction of the Senate were the New Byzantines, who took their name from the ancient Greek city Constantinople was built upon: Byzantion. They agreed with the Old Romans that the empire could once again be strong, but their ambitions leaned not towards the reclamation of what was old and lost but to the construction of something new. The Rome of antiquity ruled the world for centuries, yes, but the world it ruled was as completely swept away by the steady march of time as the old Roman order. What guidance could Hadrian offer about Seljuk dominion over vast swaths of Anatolia? What could Vespasian teach us about the schism between the Eastern and Western churches? Nothing, they correctly answer. The Roman Empire of today is not the empire of Justinian, which was not the empire of Theodosius, which was not the empire of Constantine, which was not the empire of Augustus. They posited that we were living in a new empire-- a Byzantine empire, and had been for quite some time. Finally, there were two minor factions:  The Milvians, named for Constantine's first victory for Christianity over paganism, who considered the defining characteristic of the empire to be its fidelity to the Orthodox Church.  And finally the Komnenians, who, mindful of Emperor Alexios I Komnenos' role in their newfound prestige were loyal to the ruling house of the empire above all. Although still only 38 years old, Alexios wished to position himself as an elder statesman presiding over squabbling nobles, Douxes, generals, and other centers of power. To this end, he grew a majestic beard.  At the emperor's personal request, his sister-in-law Princess Agnes converted to the Orthodox faith. This helped assuage concerns from the Milvian senators over Rome's perceived reliance on the Catholic Holy Roman Empire.  This veneer of Orthodox unity quickly shattered in January, when a second Bogomilist uprising broke out in the Balkans.  The revolt was crushed in short order, but heresy continued to run rampant in the region. With the empire once again temporarily at peace, Alexios began a campaign of public works projects in Constantinople. His ultimate goal was to be able to support greater numbers of soldiers personally loyal to him in order to be less reliant on the whims of Douxes to furnish the empire with fighting men.  Meanwhile, the Senate continued to press for action against the Seljuks. Some openly called for war; he dismissed these war-hawks out of hand, however— with their absorption of the former territories of Rum complete, they could muster more than twice as many soldiers as the empire. Even if the Holy Roman Empire were induced to once again take the field, Alexios was not confident that Rome's own armies would be able hold off the Seljuk onslaught long enough for the Germans to complete a long overland march from central Europe. Other senators pushed for a more subtle course of action against the Seljuks. While Alexios, being an honorable man, was naturally disinclined towards such unscrupulous and underhanded tactics as assassination, he had not forgotten the murder of the Empress Irene by the Hashashin. He therefore set in motion a plot to murder the Seljuk Sultan Ahmad.  This plot was facilitated by the fact that, following decades of struggle between Rome and the Seljuks for control of Anatolia, there were many Turks living on the Roman side of the border, and many Greeks living under Seljuk dominion. It was therefore trivial for Alexios to find agents comfortable moving in Seljuk circles, who then in turn found a network of Turkish nobles with their own reasons for opposing Ahmad. The present interval of peace notwithstanding, Alexios was well aware that his reign was one marked by war, chaos, and bloodshed. He doubted things would change anytime soon, and so sought to instill Prince Meletios with the martial virtues that had carried him to victory over the Normans, the Doukas rebels, and the Seljuks.  My father's plot for revenge against the Sultan Ahmad suffered a setback when one of the conspirators let the fact that the emperor of Rome was involved slip to Seljuk loyalists. Still, the nucleus of the conspiracy remained intact, and dissatisfied Turkish nobles still sought the death of their overlord and were willing to work with the Greeks to that end.  Ah, yes, my father's affair with the lowborn courtier Gabrielia. A definite moral failing of his; although one which, I would argue, is perhaps understandable. One must remember that the current empress, Jaddvor, was married not for love or for an alliance, but in the interest of finding a learned scholar and able diplomat to help steer the ship of state. Is it any wonder that, in a rare moment between wars and crises, Alexios would fall prey to the temptations of the flesh?  And, of course, during this time the empire itself was doing God's work and rolling back the tide of heresy that had swept over the land. What is one moment of weakness compared to such great acts?  In October 1096 Tengri raiders from Crimea crossed the imperial border and attempted to loot the theme of Cherson. The Doux's personal levies easily beat back the pagan invaders, but it was a reminder of Cherson's vulnerability as an exclave of Rome and Tengri control over much of the Black Sea.  The Pechenegs, who ruled over Orthodox subjects and shared a lengthy land border with the empire's heartland, were of particular concern. In order to curb their power— and strengthen the empire's position without directly coming into conflict with the Seljuks— Alexios launched a holy war to liberate the people of Wallachia from pagan tyranny.  The Heinrich IV once again answered the call to arms to assist his brother emperor in the east.  Things were complicated, however, when my father's spymaster came forward with evidence that my uncle Nikephoros— husband of Princess Agnes— sought to murder the emperor. As the crucial alliance between Rome and Germany depended on Nikephoros' marriage, however, the emperor decided to take the risk of not dealing with the matter immediately.  Gabrielia gave birth to a girl named Maria, whom Alexios recognized as his bastard daughter, but stopped short of legitimizing in order to avoid alienating Empress Jaddvor and his legitimate children more than necessary. Gabrielia herself died shortly thereafter, but rumors of infidelity and adultery continued to swirl around the house of Komnenos.  Cumania came to the aid of their Pecheneg brothers and sisters in the Tengri faith, but the war was, in truth, rather one-sided. The numbers simply weren't on their side. It is safe to say, I feel, that the future of east lies with the Abrahamic faiths of Christianity and Islam, and that it is only a matter of time before Tengri dominance in the region wilts.  In the midst of a holy war for the liberation of Christian Pechenegs from their pagan oppressors, the treacherous Prince Nikephoros was bold enough to make an attempt on the emperor's life.  With German and Roman troops currently fighting side-by-side in the Pecheneg steppes, however, Alexios was forced to merely accept Nikephoros' solemn word that he would renounce his machinations against the throne.  The events of the last several years— engaging in intrigue and conspiracy against the Seljuks, the affair with Gabrielia, the cynical actions of the Orthodox Nikephoros in a time of Holy War, and the political necessity of not bringing him to justice for his treachery- eventually led to my father's zealous devotion to the Church to fade. He remained a devout Christian all his life, of course, but no longer did the same righteous fire burn in his soul.  The Cumanians made one last great push into the south in an attempt to dislodge the Roman armies occupying Pecheneg territory.  With the Germans arriving in force, however, other Roman armies were free to reinforce Birlad. The combined armies of the Khanates of the Pechenegs and the Cumanians were potent riders more or less born in the saddle, and fearsome opponents on the battlefield— there simply weren't enough of them to overwhelm the Romans. The Tengri khanates simply cannot muster enough men and horses to stem the tide and hold the steppes. History is not on their side.  After the defeat at Birlad, the Pechenegs surrendered. Wallachia was Rome's.  Alexios duly organized the Wallachian into a theme. Nikephoros had the gall to ask his brother for a fiefdom of his own. Alexios told him to be grateful that he didn't have him blinded and castrated, and that it wasn't too late for him to change his mind about that.  Instead, Alexiosappointed one of the local Orthodox Pecheneg nobles as Doux, believing that the natives of the region might be more manageable if one of their own held formal power— and a child Doux would be less likely to remember a past without Rome.  Meanwhile, in the east, the wheels of Alexios' conspiracy against the Sultan continued to turn.  Other dissatisfied Turkish nobles, however, had already chosen to take much more direct action against their Seljuk liege— open revolt had broken out throughout the empire, with the Saimids seeking to overthrow the Seljuk regime entirely.  When Alexios' Turkish agents finally pushed their co-conspirators into action and had Sultan Ahman killed, it was almost irrelevant to the Seljuks' declining fortunes.  The Seljuk Empire was already being overrun by Saimid forces.  In 1098, another attack on the emperor's person was made. It was thwarted by the Varangian captain Arni, his instincts not dulled by peacetime, but the culprit was never identified. Various theories have been advanced— Nikephoros seeking to improve his position, Seljuk loyalists seeking revenge against Rome even as their empire burned, or even hawkish senators seeking to induce Alexios to declare war on the Seljuks in their moment of weakness. I suppose we shall never know. My responsibility as a historian is to preserve a record of the past for future generations; in this case, however, what really happened was lost in the mists of time in mere decades rather than centuries.  After this incident, my father's health began to deteriorate. I suppose he was shaken by the attempted kidnapping.  Meanwhile, the Seljuks fought a final battle with the Saimids at Iznik. Although the Seljuk loyalists outnumbered the rebels, the were attempting a dangerous river crossing against a dug-in enemy and were soundly defeated. This was the death knell of the Seljuk Empire.  Saim the Conquerer was crowned as the first sultan of the new Saimid Empire. Moving his capital away from Persia to the Anatolian city of Eskisehir, his center of power was much closer to Rome than Ahmad's.  His empire, however, was far from unified, and various petty nobles remained in revolt.  The most potent of these revolts was that of Turan Shah Seljuk. Among the nobles supporting him was Kilij Arslan, the last sultan of Rum before its dissolution by the greater Seljuk Empire.  With the Saimid Empire likely weaker than it would be for any time in the foreseeable future and a clear mandate from the Senate to continue the reconquest of Anatolia as soon as circumstances favored it, the ailing emperor saw no choice other than war with the Saimids. 
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Jan 31, 2014 05:31
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Our poor emperor.
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Jan 31, 2014 08:33
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cokerpilot posted:Our poor emperor. It is the way of momentous times. Great men must bend with them or break in the tides. Also, this is totally why you shouldn't have a commoner as your lover. You never know where they've been.
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Jan 31, 2014 09:19
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What's that "Is War Possible" decision?
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Jan 31, 2014 12:47
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