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I think the wikileaks one was about this https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1976RABAT05209_b.html TL;DR Bunch of UFO sightings in Morocco in 1976. The King wannted to know if the US knew anything about them. Can't find a response to it
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Jan 25, 2014 01:26
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This thread got me to watch V. It's very much an early 80's TV miniseries, but it has Junior from Platoon and Jerry Falwell as an alien.
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Jan 25, 2014 03:18
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Omi-Polari posted:That might just be tough-talk, but there's a theory that a conspiracist mindset can reflect a Machiavellian personality. I don't want to psychoanalyze an individual I don't know, so I dunno about your friend. In a world where everyone is out to get you it's "kill or be killed". America Inc. fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Jan 25, 2014 |
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Jan 25, 2014 04:28
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duck monster posted:I think the wikileaks one was about this Probably because there was none. And yea, I vaguely remember that, UFO people were going through wikileaks looking for something that proved that the goverment knows about them.
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Jan 25, 2014 05:02
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Is Bigfoot a conspiracy? Because Spike has a new reality TV show documenting teams hunt for bigfoot and it is loving bizarre. I thought that fad had died out, but I guess not.
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Jan 25, 2014 08:06
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Why there can be a crossover between the two groups. I make a distinction between conspiracy theorists and cryptozoologists, since they are completely harmless. No one goes and becomes an anti-government terrorist because Bigfoot.
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Jan 25, 2014 08:19
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Bigfoot is the opposite of conspiracy theory in some ways in that you are saying no one in power knows of this thing, but it matches conspiracy theory in that it grants a special knowledge and inside status to the believer. But you could say the latter about pretty much any myth. The unique thing about conspiracy theory isn't the special knowledge and inside status, it's the sense that people X are behind Great Evil and must be eliminated. Which feeds into the bit about being harmless. No one ever committed genocide because they believed in an undiscovered monster.
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Jan 25, 2014 21:47
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Best Friends posted:No one ever committed genocide because they believed in an undiscovered monster. Iä! Iä! Cthulhu Fhtagn! Worship him, and he will eat you first! http://www.rubbersuitstudios.com/ptcct.htm http://www.fredvanlente.com/cthulhutract/
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Jan 25, 2014 23:17
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Yeah, bigfoot, ghosts, psychics, and all that kind of thing are separate issues, although there may be significant crossover between people who believe them and conspiracy theorists. I think a separate skeptic thread would work better for talking about those subjects.
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Jan 25, 2014 23:49
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But what if Bigfoot killed JFK/planted the explosives in Building 7?
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Jan 26, 2014 00:35
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Negative Entropy posted:Why should it be a surprise that people who are caught up in delusions, a sign of psychosis, also show anti-social behavior, another key symptom of psychosis?
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Jan 26, 2014 00:41
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Yes, only extreme cases can be attributed to mental disorders, most of them are just coping mechanisms with a pinch of ego boosting thrown in.
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Jan 26, 2014 00:44
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Omi-Polari posted:There are some conspiracy theories out there that do reflect a mental disorder -- gangstalking is pretty clearly a reflection of paranoid schizophrenia -- but I think you're mistaken to call conspiracism a psychosis. I'm not aware of any evidence that conspiracy theorists are "delusional" or show signs of "psychosis." Everything I've read indicates that conspiracy theorists are by and large rational, yet they believe in seemingly crazy things. I don't know. Its said that our brains aren't too happy with things being utterly random, with the idea that we are completely out of control of life, that X happened for a reason, and its part of a grand universal plan. Hence the proliferation of religion and belief in gods. It wasn't that your uncle randomly got struck by lightning in a poultry butchery because sometimes life just shits in your cornflakes, it was because god/an unknown entity/the universe had a plan and that plan required your uncle to be flashfried and accidentally served at KFC. Its something everyone's brain tries to do. Maybe its just a version of sour grapes. "My girlfriend dumped me...maybe it was just meant to be that way". I could totally see the part of your brain that senses patterns getting its chocolate in the peanut butter that is the part of your brain that tries to see a 'story line' or 'cause and effect' to your life instead of just accepting that sometimes life just takes a poo poo on you, and thereby giving someone the brain chemistry to be much more likely to believe in conspiracy theories, such as the lizardmen.
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Jan 26, 2014 01:05
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Only Americans could have planned an executed something as perfectly as 9/11 and I won't hear otherwise 
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Jan 26, 2014 05:36
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comes along bort posted:But what if Bigfoot killed JFK/planted the explosives in Building 7?
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Jan 26, 2014 05:41
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Well, I'd say that bigfoot, aliens (ancient and abductions), Atlantis, ghosts, etc are a product of the same kind of thinking as protocols of zion, birtchers, birthers, truthers, but are in a seperate league. The idea that there is something that we are not being told and its being actively hidden and "experts" are ignoring all the (not) strong evidence for. Both types take at face value any and all evidence that proves their theory correct (pretty much all Bigfoot evidence has been proven to be not real at his point), and all evidence against is used as evidence for (because THEY don't want the truth to be exposed so they are always fabricating contrary evidence). Too be specific, Bigfoot is often seen as some kind of genetic experiment that escaped, its some kind of attempt to make a super soldier/worker. It also features in Alien overlord conspiracies because the Bigfoots are the workers for the Greys/Lizards/Tall Whites. But seriously, the only things we have to worry about from crypto's is bad tv and anyone who shells out for one of their books is out 40bux. I do think some that seem kind of safe now could become dangerous in the future. I mean, some Raw Milk people are getting scary, and I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been a wave of eco terrorism aimed at GMO plants.
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Jan 26, 2014 06:44
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twistedmentat posted:I do think some that seem kind of safe now could become dangerous in the future. I mean, some Raw Milk people are getting scary, and I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been a wave of eco terrorism aimed at GMO plants. What the fu-  How is there a conspiracy about raw milk, of all things? And what the hell does it entail?
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Jan 26, 2014 06:50
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Gen. Ripper posted:What the fu- "Raw milk arhgjj they're poisoning us by making us pasteurize milk before drinking it, NAZIFASCISTS! If I want to get Ecoli Its my choice! Nanny State bullshit keeping us from good milk like sheep!" yea its incorrect, I admit I tossed it in there more as a joke, but that's pretty much what raw milk people scream about. I have a friend who just got into it (he literally said "I'm a rational actor, I can task what risks I want, anyways, its pasteurized milk thats bad for you) and he posts poo poo that looks pretty much like that constantly. Again, its the "they want to control us by controlling what we put into our bodies" conspiracy thats like fluoridation plus ARE FREEDOMS and Free Market Libertarianism all rolled into one. twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 06:55
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duck monster posted:Theres nothing harmless about this poo poo at all. Vaccination should be required by law short of medical proof that you'd have a reaction to one of the compounds, such as allergies. If you don't want to be vaccinated too loving bad. Your being stupid enough to listen to people like Jenny McCartney should not in any way allow you to make yourself or your kids in to a potential biohazard.
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Jan 26, 2014 08:02
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twistedmentat posted:Well, I'd say that bigfoot, aliens (ancient and abductions), Atlantis, ghosts, etc are a product of the same kind of thinking as protocols of zion, birtchers, birthers, truthers, but are in a seperate league. The idea that there is something that we are not being told and its being actively hidden and "experts" are ignoring all the (not) strong evidence for. I thought Bigfoots were just serene psychic hippie-Native-Americans that commune with the universe in the forest and avoid us because we aren't sufficiently spiritually advanced. Shows what I know!
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Jan 26, 2014 08:12
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Animal-Mother posted:This thread got me to watch V. It's very much an early 80's TV miniseries, but it has Junior from Platoon and Jerry Falwell as an alien. Other than a few cringeworthy spots of mullets, rubbersuit monsters and hammy 80s acting, V holds up *very* well still, in my view.
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Jan 26, 2014 08:14
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Evil Fluffy posted:Vaccination should be required by law short of medical proof that you'd have a reaction to one of the compounds, such as allergies. If you don't want to be vaccinated too loving bad. Your being stupid enough to listen to people like Jenny McCartney should not in any way allow you to make yourself or your kids in to a potential biohazard. I don't think conspiracy theorists are stupid. One of the smartest engineers I know is convinced that vaccines are poisonous w/ some sort of weird government conspiracy behind it. Theres more going on than the simple fedora-atheist view that "smart guys are rational skeptics, dumb guys are irrational ghost believers". Personally i think theres a human tendency towards mythical speech , and that conspiracy theories are just modernist folklore (They certainly share a lot of common mythemes with traditional folklore, hidden sorcerers, devils plots, "the other villages scheme", etc), but I'm open to other explainations! duck monster fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 08:21
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twistedmentat posted:"Raw milk arhgjj they're poisoning us by making us pasteurize milk before drinking it, NAZIFASCISTS! If I want to get Ecoli Its my choice! Nanny State bullshit keeping us from good milk like sheep!" The one raw milk dude I know claims that the government zaps the nutrients out of milk during pasteurization in order to keep Americans passive and weak so they won't revolt. It's why milk is the most commonly served beverage in public school cafeterias because it helps with the statist indoctrination process. Alec Bald Snatch fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 10:04
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Jazerus posted:I thought Bigfoots were just serene psychic hippie-Native-Americans that commune with the universe in the forest and avoid us because we aren't sufficiently spiritually advanced. Shows what I know! Just one of the disinformation spread out by the MiBs! duck monster posted:I don't think conspiracy theorists are stupid. One of the smartest engineers I know is convinced that vaccines are poisonous w/ some sort of weird government conspiracy behind it. Theres more going on than the simple fedora-atheist view that "smart guys are rational skeptics, dumb guys are irrational ghost believers". Personally i think theres a human tendency towards mythical speech , and that conspiracy theories are just modernist folklore (They certainly share a lot of common mythemes with traditional folklore, hidden sorcerers, devils plots, "the other villages scheme", etc), but I'm open to other explainations! Its been discussed before, but people will always try to find a reason behind things. Some people just choose irrational things to explain stuff. When you feel like you're life is not your own, blaming it on space lizards or Illuminati ghosts is easier to accept than things are just hard and life sucks. As for something like Truthers, I've read the core is "America is the greatest nation there hever has, is and will be. How can some camel jockeys bring down two of the greatest buildings in the land and kill 3000 of its citizens. It doesn't make sense, there has to be MORE". I mean, there are already people out there ready to see any and all events as proof of some kind of NWO conspiracy, and they were very quick to start spouting out crazy, but if there wasn't this disbelief of the actual event to start with, it would have remained in the fringes. I know I'll call people idiots or stupid or morons or what not if they believe in crazy poo poo, BUT while I'm calling their judgment into question I'm not actually saying they're actually not a smart person. I will freely admit, I generally feel the more you admit you don't know is showing more intelligence than someone who brags about how much they know. Not to dive into the can of worms of religion vs science, but I think that's one of the things that hurts science. A Creationist can go "see, god said livus beginus and waved his wand and poof there was life, its right there in the bible" with certainty, while a evolutionary biologist has go to "well, based on the fossil record and observing animals in nature and such and such we have to say evolution has a strong case for being the correct". Even though the evolution argument is actually the one that is more fact base, it sounds unsteady to someone who is scientific illiterate. Conspiracies have the same thing. "From all the evidence we collected, it looks like these things happened" vs "George Soros told Obama to get one of his ACORN thugs to shoot up a school and blame is on a patriot!" which sounds better to someone who's be primed to distrust the goverment? Hell, both sides of the fence are just as guilty in poisoning the "trust the goverment" line. Again, I'm not saying to blindly follow every thing it says, just be critical and know when to accept its findings, as with any authority. I did not mean this to be a block of text, but I'm fascinated by the ways people come to believe this stuff, and I've read tons of books and articles and listened to interviews and pod casts up the rear end about it. While i was trying to find the stuff on the Snowden UFO leak, I came across this article on snopes http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/newflag.asp It's pretty hilarious that anit-obama people honestly believed what was a clear joke to be real. No doubt the same people who think Colbert isn't an act. Someone should print that flag up though. comes along bort posted:The one raw milk dude I know claims that the government zaps the nutrients out of milk during pasteurization in order to keep Americans passive and weak so they won't revolt. It's why milk is the most commonly served beverage in public school cafeterias because it helps with the statist indoctrination process. Yea, I heard that. It was paired with "there's a reason people didn't drink lots of milk until after pasteurization was created, thats when THEY took over!" Other than the fact raw milk has tons of really bad bugs in it and was hard to store because refrigeration didn't exist. Hell, people mostly drank beer and wine exclusively because brewing kills a lot of bugs carried in water so it was much safer to drink than water or milk. If raw milk actually became something that was regularly available, I'd hate to see how fast the producers would get sued after some kid gets e coli. twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 10:06
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Jazerus posted:I thought Bigfoots were just serene psychic hippie-Native-Americans that commune with the universe in the forest and avoid us because we aren't sufficiently spiritually advanced. Shows what I know! That is what bigfoot believers think, by and large. Or that it's just some undiscovered ape. I'm sure there is some crazy person who believes the government knows about bigfoot because sure why not but that is the first I've ever heard of it. Ironically I think the linking of all this together is a conspiracy theory of conspiracy theory, where everyone with some form of belief contrary to the norm or subscribing to a myth is all in league for some nefarious purpose. That's pretty silly. No, bigfoot believers do not necessarily believe in "THEM." Nor raw milk aficionados, some of whom are just really into food and are willing to risk sickness for it. Come on. edit: I'm not endorsing any of these beliefs, all of which I find ridiculous. But one can say believe in the virtues of raw milk and also find bigfoot ridiculous. They might involve some of the same thinking to arrive at (or, they might not) but they do not imply each other, and certainly do not imply any sort of association between believers. Best Friends fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 11:37
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twistedmentat posted:While i was trying to find the stuff on the Snowden UFO leak, I came across this article on snopes The thing that finally made me lose it, in regards to human rationality, was this
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Jan 26, 2014 12:42
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comes along bort posted:The one raw milk dude I know claims that the government zaps the nutrients out of milk during pasteurization in order to keep Americans passive and weak so they won't revolt. It's why milk is the most commonly served beverage in public school cafeterias because it helps with the statist indoctrination process. And here I thought it was crippling poverty combined with just enough of a safety net to keep us alive that kept us passive and weak. I drink poo poo tons of milk and I'm pretty drat anti-establishment, whereas all the conspiracy theorists and raw milker and casual shamans aren't just anti-establishment, they're anti-everything-to-do-with-functioning-society. They all seem to lack the self-awareness necessary to realize that the only reason their lifestyles are even an option is because everyone else is busting rear end to make society work.
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Jan 26, 2014 13:09
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twistedmentat posted:Its been discussed before, but people will always try to find a reason behind things. Some people just choose irrational things to explain stuff. When you feel like you're life is not your own, blaming it on space lizards or Illuminati ghosts is easier to accept than things are just hard and life sucks. It is also about reasserting control of your life. If lightning striking is just a sudden difference in electric potential, then you can't really do much about it. It could strike anytime, anywhere and you'll be powerless to stop it. You start to sleep uneasy at night. But, if it was THE GOVERNMENT doing it, then you can act. By putting on your  you become immune to their strikes. They might send people after you, but if you don't drink the milk they can't control you. You now start to sleep safe and sound, knowing that you did everything to stop their deadly lightning strikes. And it works! Proof of that is every morning when you wake up alive and well. It is also interesting how they want YOU dead. An evil organization that successfully assassinated J.F. Kennedy, the most powerful man of the most powerful nation on Earth, wants to get a lowly 9-5 office clerk, and you are evading them! Still alive, you see. Even though you look like a fat balding goon, there is obviously something more to you. You KNOW about them, you KNOW what they DO, and you KNOW how to neutralize THEM. You are truly free, and the price of freedom is just a sore butt every night, from plugging in an anti-gov buttplug.  Regarding Lizard People, I think they were created after conspiracy crowd had two conflicting thoughts. One is that people are stupid (sheeple), and the other is that the government made of those stupid people have the resources and knowledge to control lives of billions of people. With Lizard People being in power, that cognitive dissonance is now eliminated, and you might even start snoring again!
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Jan 26, 2014 13:44
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Both the anti-vaccine and raw milk conspiracies are examples of solutions to problems being so effective that the problems they solved have mostly passed from living memory for anyone in a developed country. Modern idiots lack the experience of their childhood friends dying from easily preventable diseases, and so they begin getting superstitious about these weird things that the scientists and government want them to do.
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Jan 26, 2014 17:37
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Grouchy Smurf posted:The thing that finally made me lose it, in regards to human rationality, was this Hah! That's pretty freaking hilarious. I should grab a sound file from the Secret World and post it as a "intercepted phonecall from Illumanati overlords to one of their agents" and see if the infowars people bite. Kit Walker posted:And here I thought it was crippling poverty combined with just enough of a safety net to keep us alive that kept us passive and weak. I drink poo poo tons of milk and I'm pretty drat anti-establishment, whereas all the conspiracy theorists and raw milker and casual shamans aren't just anti-establishment, they're anti-everything-to-do-with-functioning-society. They all seem to lack the self-awareness necessary to realize that the only reason their lifestyles are even an option is because everyone else is busting rear end to make society work. I had an argument with a gluten free advocate recently who claimed that "Bread is the worst thing in human history. All our problems are caused by eating gluten". I pointed out that bread is pretty much why we have the civilization that we have now; without the cultivation of grain, we would have never settled down and by making bread we were able to feed more people so some people wouldn't have to grub in the dirt so they wouldn't starve. Then we can have art and music and figure out slavery wasn't good and invent the internet you read all your bullshit on. I really love "people were healthier in the past" arguments. Generally, our health is a lot better than it always has. Yes, there is an obesity problem and that carries a whole host of illnesses, but generally people are healthier than they were even 40 years ago, let alone hundreds or even thousands. ponzicar posted:Both the anti-vaccine and raw milk conspiracies are examples of solutions to problems being so effective that the problems they solved have mostly passed from living memory for anyone in a developed country. Modern idiots lack the experience of their childhood friends dying from easily preventable diseases, and so they begin getting superstitious about these weird things that the scientists and government want them to do. It's like the GOP getting rid of voter protection because black people can vote now. This prevents bad things happening so well they don't happen before, so lets get rid of it.
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Jan 26, 2014 19:43
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Omi-Polari posted:There are some conspiracy theories out there that do reflect a mental disorder -- gangstalking is pretty clearly a reflection of paranoid schizophrenia -- but I think you're mistaken to call conspiracism a psychosis. twistedmentat posted:I really love "people were healthier in the past" arguments. duck monster posted:One of the smartest engineers I know is convinced that vaccines are poisonous w/ some sort of weird government conspiracy behind it. Theres more going on than the simple fedora-atheist view that "smart guys are rational skeptics, dumb guys are irrational ghost believers". Or, more shortly, "I'm an engineer who works on rockets. Dumb people don't get to be engineers who work on rockets. Therefore, whatever I think is right, because I'm smart. Now, what do I think about vaccines?" Miss-Bomarc fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 22:49
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twistedmentat posted:It's like the GOP getting rid of voter protection because black people can vote now. This prevents bad things happening so well they don't happen before, so lets get rid of it. Or even better, unions. "Sure they were great during the time of Rockefeller but now? They're just corrupt. The laws will protect the worker."
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Jan 26, 2014 22:51
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RagnarokAngel posted:Or even better, unions. Or even better, unions. "The American worker was well-paid when unions were strong. That means strong unions are what causes well-paying jobs to exist. Also, all the Jews left New York City on 9/11, that means the Jews planned 9/11."
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Jan 26, 2014 23:01
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Miss-Bomarc posted:Or even better, unions. Michael Bloomberg: not a Jew.
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Jan 26, 2014 23:05
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duck monster posted:I don't think conspiracy theorists are stupid. One of the smartest engineers I know is convinced that vaccines are poisonous w/ some sort of weird government conspiracy behind it. Theres more going on than the simple fedora-atheist view that "smart guys are rational skeptics, dumb guys are irrational ghost believers". Personally i think theres a human tendency towards mythical speech , and that conspiracy theories are just modernist folklore (They certainly share a lot of common mythemes with traditional folklore, hidden sorcerers, devils plots, "the other villages scheme", etc), but I'm open to other explainations! You can be book smart and still be an idiot in other ways, such as your friend there. Grouchy Smurf posted:The thing that finally made me lose it, in regards to human rationality, was this Wait you mean cameras don't have ammo displayed in their UI and the F-35 doesn't project the pilot's name above the aircraft? 
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Jan 26, 2014 23:36
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Grouchy Smurf posted:The thing that finally made me lose it, in regards to human rationality, was this The primary tip-off that it's fake was that the F-35 actually flew at all!
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Jan 27, 2014 00:36
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ponzicar posted:Modern idiots lack the experience of their childhood friends dying from easily preventable diseases, and so they begin getting superstitious about these weird things that the scientists and government want them to do. Or they'll tell you that those diseases weren't that bad. "I and all my friends had them, and we're still here and just fine!"
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Jan 27, 2014 00:53
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I had an aunt and uncle that owned a dairy farm, so I've seen the milk collection process up close. So take it from me, you do NOT want to drink that poo poo until it's been strained, filtered, pasteurized, and preferably blasted with some kind of sterilizing death ray.
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Jan 27, 2014 03:59
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So I encountered this graphic recently: Is this a thing? It seems like the image is trying to suggest that a beam fell on a building nearby therefore conspiracy? And the person who posted that image just keeps linking to this site over and over whenever I ask anything about it: http://www.ae911truth.org/ What the gently caress
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Jan 27, 2014 05:34
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QuarkJets posted:So I encountered this graphic recently: They're claiming the only way a beam could have hit the building is if a bomb went off, flinging it at the building. The building collapsing? Impossible, even though the building went to one side and the beam clearly struck it at a higher angle and slid down, since it sheered off part of the wall.
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Jan 27, 2014 05:38
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