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podcat posted:Its like you are reading my mind. We wanted to fully target HoI4 to the super casual market so really the whole battle plan system is a series of large red buttons like "TAKE BERLIN", "FIND MY STALINGRAD", "BOMB LONDON", "CONSTRUCT LARGE ZOO FOR GOERING". And you can just sit back and watch The Real Housewives and chew down doritos while the game plays itself. Unironically do this so that in multiplayer say the German player's armies get utterly confused and annihilate each other by accident because the Soviet player has renamed every single one of his provinces Stalingrad Leningrad or Moscow.
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Jan 28, 2014 16:21
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I'm thinking about doing a playthrough with just one character, CK2 to HoI3. Is there any way to make my ruler immortal in EU4? I don't think it's represented in V2.
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Jan 28, 2014 16:24
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Darkrenown posted:That guy is either the worst or best poster on our forums. Non-stop posts of that quality. Dude's got to be a troll. quote:
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Jan 28, 2014 16:37
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Sacred truths and cosmic revelations such as: STOP MAKING GAMES FOR DIRTY CASUALS PDOX. I love how he states that even if he's wrong this time he'll just be back for whenever a new game is announced so he can decry it from the rafters.
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Jan 28, 2014 16:40
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EvilFishTank!  Man, do I have a collection of posts for you guys.
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Jan 28, 2014 16:42
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Jeoh posted:I'm thinking about doing a playthrough with just one character, CK2 to HoI3. Is there any way to make my ruler immortal in EU4? I don't think it's represented in V2. Assuming you aren't being facetious, there's no EU4 to V2 save converter out there. As I understand it, EU4 doesn't really have anything in it that could be used to generate starting pops in V2.
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Jan 28, 2014 16:43
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DStecks posted:Assuming you aren't being facetious, there's no EU4 to V2 save converter out there. As I understand it, EU4 doesn't really have anything in it that could be used to generate starting pops in V2. While challenging, making your own EU4 to V2 mod conversion is definitely not impossible. It's just that Paradox hasn't provided an easy solution like they did for CK2-to-EU4. That being said, I've yet to see a CK2-to-EU4 converted game that doesn't look really silly and half-broken. The official converter is a great base, but any megacampaign is going to require a good deal of modding by hand. As to making your leader immortal in EU4, I don't know that it's possible. Are you doing it for an LP? If so, it'd probably just be easier to pretend you're playing the same character, and view the varying monarch points as different periods of his/her life.
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Jan 28, 2014 16:54
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Fintilgin posted:Please add a five star field general named Johnny 'Five Aces' Casual to Hearts of Iron 4. THIS THIS THIS THIS.
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Jan 28, 2014 16:56
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Imagine four Xbox controllers on the edge of a cliff.
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Jan 28, 2014 17:00
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DStecks posted:Assuming you aren't being facetious, there's no EU4 to V2 save converter out there. As I understand it, EU4 doesn't really have anything in it that could be used to generate starting pops in V2. There should really add some Vicky-lite population mechanic. Neva - 5483 population Finnish 4671 (85%) population - 4132 (88%) Catholic, 539 (12%) Orthodox Russian 812 (15%) population - 802 (99%) Orthodox, 10 (1%) Catholic And then you use <insert game mechanic here> to change culture from Finnish to Russian, assuming Russia owns the province. The same goes with missionaries and religion. The process is slow and takes time, you convert little by little, and less Finns and Catholics are in there, the slower it gets, so they are never actually erased from existence. You just go "good enough" and send your dudes elsewhere. Penalties for wrong culture and religion are incremental, so smaller the percentage of "undesirables" there are, less penalties you get.
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Jan 28, 2014 17:02
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Hello I am a casual gamer and I actually do quite often run Paradox games in spectate mode basically as a screensaver while I'm doing something else. I don't watch Housewives though.
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Jan 28, 2014 17:03
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Tomn posted:Dude's got to be a troll. Yeah he is clearly a troll and I find him really funny but a lot of people on the pdx forums don't realize he is a troll and get upset/argue etc which is a great forum environment as long as it isn't your job 
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Jan 28, 2014 17:04
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Beamed posted:EvilFishTank! Well then 
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Jan 28, 2014 17:06
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Disco Infiva posted:There should really add some Vicky-lite population mechanic. This would help verisimilitude, but I'm not really convinced it would help gameplay.
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Jan 28, 2014 17:07
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podcat posted:Yeah he is clearly a troll and I find him really funny but a lot of people on the pdx forums don't realize he is a troll and get upset/argue etc which is a great forum environment as long as it isn't your job Confirm/deny: Paradox's community managers all have to be raging alcoholics to cope with all the poo poo on the official forums.
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Jan 28, 2014 17:08
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PleasingFungus posted:This would help verisimilitude, but I'm not really convinced it would help gameplay. Maybe, who knows? I just like the idea of "dirtier" provinces like you have in Vicky a lot more, than cut and dry provinces like you have in EU4. EU4 is somewhat sterile, there is only one culture and only one religion, no exceptions. Gameplay would depend on implementation, just like with everything else 
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Jan 28, 2014 17:31
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Disco Infiva posted:There should really add some Vicky-lite population mechanic. EU3 already did track province populations, and so does EU4, but in EU4's case it isn't shown to the player. In both cases, they ended up being not that accurate over time and didn't even really add to gameplay. I mean, yeah, it'd be great to actually have it for the purposes of a EU-to-Vic converter, but I don't think it should be used as the basis for any actual in-game effects because making such spergy figures and percentages matter is the anti-thesis of what Paradox has been doing with their CK2 and EU4 systems.
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Jan 28, 2014 17:33
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Disco Infiva posted:Maybe, who knows? I just like the idea of "dirtier" provinces like you have in Vicky a lot more, than cut and dry provinces like you have in EU4. EU4 is somewhat sterile, there is only one culture and only one religion, no exceptions. That's strange vocab. Anyway, I can't think of any way that the system you're describing would fit into EU4's gameplay at all. If you really need to have flavor like that, it's not difficult to pretend.
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Jan 28, 2014 17:36
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Drone posted:Confirm/deny: Paradox's community managers all have to be raging alcoholics to cope with all the poo poo on the official forums. I feel pretty bad for most community managers.
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Jan 28, 2014 17:38
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Drone posted:That's strange vocab. It doesn't need to be in EU4. The converter could look at province history and generate a weighted population/religion average based on culture/religion shifts, as well as neighbouring countries and province owner.
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Jan 28, 2014 17:58
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Drone posted:That's strange vocab. Haha, yeah.. It wasn't meant to be serious  EDIT: Ok, if what I wrote wouldn't work, what system could they implement in EU4 so that official EU4-Vic3 converter makes sense? Assuming that Vic3 will be as spergy as Vic2 is regarding population. fuck off Batman fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 18:10
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Do we know what engine HoI4 will be using? I'm hoping all of the games get unified engines so we can have official poorly working converters.
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Jan 28, 2014 18:28
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Disco Infiva posted:Haha, yeah.. It wasn't meant to be serious A converter could potentially look at country and province history to figure out a compromise along with a few historical guidelines, so provinces have some POPs of the region's historical culture, of cultures of their past owners if these held them for more than say 50 years, and the majority culture of the province is the province culture it's held the longest (so that if say France conquers Meath in 1800 and culture converts it French isn't the majority culture of the province since that would be dumb but has a significant presence). Religion could follow a similar breakdown, with religions of past owners of the province having some presence, the current owner's having a larger presence, and the province religion being dominant (and then you could shift some numbers by looking at stuff like culture tendencies so if north German cultures are significantly protestant and south German ones almost entirely catholic you make north German POPs 50% more protestant and south German POPs at least 90% catholic). It's not perfect and maybe not even good at all but it'd be preferable to making a converter that makes V2 provinces mono-culture and mono-religion. That said, I'm pretty sure you'll see V3 before you see an EU4-V2 converter or anything new for V2 at all.
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Jan 28, 2014 18:31
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What about growing diverse populations from random seeds based on counting the various-cultured provinces in a country? So for example, if by the time you convert your EUIV save to Vic3, you have 15 provinces of Such and Such culture, while your majority culture in the other 85 provinces is So and So, it'd take those 15 provinces and scatter various pops of Such and Such throughout your other provinces, such that your nation overall ends up 15% Such and Such and 85% So and So. To make more granularity and things like cultural enclaves, the converter could do a bit of randomization to fudge it so that, while the overall percentages work out that way, some provinces might have higher percentages of minority cultures while others would have lower percentages.
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Jan 28, 2014 19:02
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I'm playing a really interesting game of CK2 that I plan on converting to EU4. I really hope I can figure out how to convert that game to Vicky because the Age of Imperialism in this universe would be really interesting with all the neat things that have happened (mega England/France, united HRE, Catholic  Byzantine Empire, huge Pisan Lollard Merchant Republic covering North Africa, unified Islam).How did Wiz do it for his mega-LPs? Go through the defines files and manually change each province owner and province culture?
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Jan 28, 2014 20:14
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axeil posted:How did Wiz do it for his mega-LPs? Go through the defines files and manually change each province owner and province culture?  It's the best way to convert for all the P'dox games, really. The official CK2-EU4 converter can be a good basis for some work (especially all those OPM HRE statlets), but a lot of the broader works usually needs to be redone by hand if you want to do a good job of it. The "Italian" and "German" cultures that the converter produces are always especially aggravating. Ofaloaf fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 20:20
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Wiz probably did it by hand through text files in his time, but by now there are programs that'll let you edit province owners and province stats and for Vic2 generate POPs and all that stuff. I believe most people would use the native CK2-to-EU4 converter and just tweak it from there, but even if you were doing it all from scratch (you obviously have to for the EU4-to-Vic2 jump) you don't really have to do it via text file completely.
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Jan 28, 2014 20:26
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gradenko_2000 posted:Wiz probably did it by hand through text files in his time, but by now there are programs that'll let you edit province owners and province stats and for Vic2 generate POPs and all that stuff. I believe most people would use the native CK2-to-EU4 converter and just tweak it from there, but even if you were doing it all from scratch (you obviously have to for the EU4-to-Vic2 jump) you don't really have to do it via text file completely. That's exactly what I'm doing for my LP at the moment, and the Clausewitz Scenario Editor has been very handy for editing province files. It doesn't remove all the tedium, but it vastly reduces it.
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Jan 28, 2014 20:30
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Ofaloaf posted:Manually, by hand. It is the While I do agree, POPs makes manual conversion to Victoria II a pain. Any other manual conversion is really preferable, although I'm still at Vicky so I wouldn't know about Hearts of Iron. I guess tech teams and political leaders could be a pain in DH.
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Jan 28, 2014 20:39
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Reading the Hearts of Iron 4 preview that talked about having equipment pools which your divisions will draw replacements from as available (So no more weird, monolithic 'Panzer IV' or 'Panzer V' divisions?) made me think back to the awesome modular unit design system of the very first game in the series. For those of you who joined later: There were A LOT more technologies in Hearts of Iron 1 (Which was made possible by scrollable tech screens - I have NO idea why they took that possibility out in the sequels, it limits modding possibilities so severely!), with many of them representing different unit model choices. For example the 'Basic Medium Tank' had, at first, prototype phase which would then unlock four different, mutually exclusive basic medium tank technologies that let the player choose the caliber of the main gun (Bigger guns would lead to units with more hard and soft attack but also higher build costs and supply usage). Other choices involved having faster/more fragile or better armored/slower ships, etc. The AI back then was very bad and couldn't handle the technology system (in general, not just when it concerned units) at all, so the whole thing ended up not mattering because after a few years you were hopelessly ahead in all fields of research anyway - But the general idea of essentially designing your own units is something that I would LOVE to see in a modern Hearts of Iron incarnation!
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Jan 28, 2014 21:21
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If we already have the division of tanks into light/medium/heavy/super heavy I think that's enough distinction without also having light medium and medium medium tanks. How many tank models does a game need?
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Jan 28, 2014 21:29
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HoI1 also allowed the US to join the war in 39 with nuclear weapons at the ready. I could certainly do without that feature.
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Jan 28, 2014 21:30
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Riso posted:HoI1 also allowed the US to join the war in 39 with nuclear weapons at the ready. I did not suggest including that feature?? 
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Jan 28, 2014 21:36
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DerLeo posted:If we already have the division of tanks into light/medium/heavy/super heavy I think that's enough distinction without also having light medium and medium medium tanks. How many tank models does a game need? I don't see the problem here. The difference wouldn't be major, but the various conflict parties DID have divergent design philosophies. In terms of handling the unit itself, there shouldn't really be any difference at all once it's researched, it's just the stats that would differ slightly from nation to nation. I didn't like that all models of a generation were exactly the same across all countries in HOI2. Doctrine isn't the only thing that matters, equipment does, too.
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Jan 28, 2014 21:41
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DerLeo posted:If we already have the division of tanks into light/medium/heavy/super heavy I think that's enough distinction without also having light medium and medium medium tanks. How many tank models does a game need? There's a big difference if tanks, planes etc have 'pools'. In previous HOI games the division of tanks was just a tech burden, production and replacement was just a matter of changing an IC slider, and that replacement IC could instantly produce whatever you wanted - in practice it's very difficult to actually run down the strength of your or your opponent's divisions because you can just pump IC into instantly rebuilding them. Having pools that you need to maintain and balance between maintaining and moving on to producing the next model up is the kind of interesting grand strategy choice that I think would give HOI a bit more of a sense of identity.
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Jan 28, 2014 21:46
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Wasn't there a Vicky2 POP creator that someone's friend was working on but refused to release it? Because that was the point where I realized most modders are stuck-up assholes. I mean, I knew it after Minecraft (  ) but for gently caress's sake you design a thing that would make modding so much easier and then you hoard it away? 
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Jan 28, 2014 21:48
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I have some sort of pop-editor, Kinniken's Victoria Tools 0.2, which is pretty easy to use.
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Jan 28, 2014 21:57
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One of the things HOI 1 pulled off under its modular tech model was the ability to upgrade specific stats of the base units, such as Soft Attack, Hard Attack, Defense, Org, and so on. One creative player's use of this design was pouring all his research into such upgrades, so that his infantry could take on just about any other kind of army. Anyway, the pools concept is an interesting one: I didn't think it was all that realistic for a Panzer division to have all Panzers of a specific model until the progress bar hit 100% and poof, all the Panzer IIIs are now Panzer IVs. It was really more of a gradual thing, even for an army that had much more standardized structures such as Americans and Soviets with their Shermans and T-34s. Where interesting gameplay comes in would seem to be the player having to choose between continuing to produce Panzer IIIs just so the TOEs can keep replenishing losses taken, and temporarily halting production so that factories can re-tool (Arsenal of Democracy mechanic!) to produce Panzer IVs, and/or building up a pool of extra Panzer IIIs before making the switch. This sort of thing also came into play with the Japanese - the newer Judy and Jill bombers ran into R&D and production problems, but the factories had already stopped production of the older Val and Kate models in anticipation of the new models, so there were several months in early 1942 when there were no or very few replacement airframes.
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Jan 28, 2014 21:57
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I'm presuming that Paradox aren't going MAXIMUM GROGNARD with item pools though so it'll be interesting to see what they settled on to make industry management meaningful and tie into the idea of supporting a war effort.
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Jan 28, 2014 23:18
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The one thing HoI4 most needs is to avoid features that are nifty for the sake of being nifty. Take the weather system in 3, for example. It's a really neat idea to have the weather across the whole world simulated in real time, since weather conditions had such a large effect on the historical war. The only problem is, from a design standpoint, that specific weather conditions are a operational scale issue, not strategic scale. No one ever held off on fighting across a large front simply due to inclement weather - only in very specific situations (like the D-Day landings) or when the weather was severe and widespread (winter on the Eastern Front). A much simpler system would be both easier to implement and simpler to use in a useful way. (Like the HoI2 weather system.) Another example is the politics system - it's really neat that you can influence the internal politics of other nations by investing heavily in espionage and diplomacy - but it didn't actually do anything worth a drat, and thus was disappointingly useless in the long run.
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