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Jan 23, 2014 20:17
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Kurtofan posted:Do you think this is a result of Franco/Salazar's legacies? I assume so, yeah. I can't really speak for Spain's traditions (plus, even if I could I wouldn't do them justice - they had a civil war two generations ago and the country is very split along regional lines), but over here after '74 everything really shifted. I think Salazar's biggest influence was reinforcing the idea that we the Portuguese are a peaceful people, honestly. Our protests are mostly peaceful and there isn't a significant culture of violence anywhere aside from football ultras. If people want to oppress foreigners they'll usually vote CDS or something, but that isn't a big problem either because all the foreigners are running away, so we can only really oppress the Roma  Protest votes are usually in the form of "I can't be arsed to go vote", which makes Abstention the #1 political party in the country, voting for the hard left, or voting for [party that wasn't in government the last 4 years]. Not much space for a new movement to show up, other than perhaps a Beppe Grillo thing, but nobody is culturally significant enough to unite people that way.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:19
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Tias posted:That's because the burden of proof is on the person making the retarded blanket statement that historical anarchism has done nothing, a claim that is patently hosed up to even the most passing student of labour history - not me. The October Revolution was planned in advance by the Petrograd Soviet's Military-Revolutionary Committee. The soviet had a Bolshevik majority. The MRC was led by Trotsky and composed of Bolsheviks and Left SRs. The explicit goal of the revolution was not to abolish state power but to put it in the hands of the soviets ("All power to the soviets!"), organs of working-class government. The units which carried out the revolution in Petrograd, the Red Guards, elements of the garrison, and the Aurora and Kronstadt sailors, were all strongly pro-Bolshevik. The Bolsheviks then were the majority party in the Second All-Russian Congress of Soviets convened on October 26 (old style) that the revolution had given power to. The Bolsheviks formed a coalition government with the Left-SRs. How on earth is a Bolshevik/SR planned and led revolution in which Bolshevik-aligned forces seized state power for a working-class government which produced a Bolshevik majority an 'anarchist revolution'? quote:Do you think this is a result of Franco/Salazar's legacies? I know a comrade who went to Spain for six months last Spring/Summer. According to him, Franco-nostalgia is still huge on the Spanish right, and he constantly heard upper class Spaniards wish for the Franco days. In one case, his landlord (not knowing that he was a socialist) brought out a copy of the newspaper from the day Franco died which he had saved, showed it to him, and wistfully remarked that everything had gotten worse since then.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:07
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Yeah calling either the February or October revolution "anarchist" is way too much even if workers some worker units chose to organize and arm themselves. I notice there is a narrative from both the right and the left that somehow the Bolsheviks were able to impose anything on the workers of Petrograd. By August 1917, the Bolshevik from all accounts was floundering if not dying out after being suppressed by Kerensky. How were these guys able to impose anything on disaffected workers and soldiers? Yeah, I am not buying that liberal democracy is completely safe in the EU either. Orban has already become increasingly autocratic and has rewritten election laws to keep himself in power. Maybe Hungary isn't a full dictatorship, but it is at this point very clearly a managed democracy. In addition, we are already seeing hard and even far-right groups have influence over the political process. Marine Le Pen as the front-runner in the next presidential election isn't "nothing." No I don't think 1930s/40s Marxist Leninism or Stalinism is coming back nor is formal Fascism but neither isn't the situation going in a direct favorable to liberal democracy. The sheer fact that the leadership of the EU is cheering the "end" of the Euro crisis is testament to this fact, almost nothing has been fixed beyond Ireland being able to sell its own bonds (while still having tons of bad debt on the books of its bank, easily enough to sink the country again).
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Jan 23, 2014 21:28
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Rogue0071 posted:The October Revolution was planned in advance by the Petrograd Soviet's Military-Revolutionary Committee. The soviet had a Bolshevik majority. The MRC was led by Trotsky and composed of Bolsheviks and Left SRs. The explicit goal of the revolution was not to abolish state power but to put it in the hands of the soviets ("All power to the soviets!"), organs of working-class government. The units which carried out the revolution in Petrograd, the Red Guards, elements of the garrison, and the Aurora and Kronstadt sailors, were all strongly pro-Bolshevik. The Bolsheviks then were the majority party in the Second All-Russian Congress of Soviets convened on October 26 (old style) that the revolution had given power to. The Bolsheviks formed a coalition government with the Left-SRs. His argument seems to be that the nameless masses that rose up were solidly anarchist (ignoring that the Bolsheviks did have a large support base) and that the Bolsheviks corrupted the soviets and took control of the revolution. If that interpretation is correct apparently this is the anarchist version of the stab in the back myth.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:32
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Raskolnikov38 posted:His argument seems to be that the nameless masses that rose up were solidly anarchist (ignoring that the Bolsheviks did have a large support base) and that the Bolsheviks corrupted the soviets and took control of the revolution. Not to mention there was a myriad of political factions in Petrograd in 1917 and the major ones weren't anywhere really near Anarchist. I hope we don't start labeling SRs as Anarchists.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:37
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I'm not sure if any of you fine gentlepeople have a subscription to Harper's (you should, it's like $15 a year), but their cover story this month is the transcript of a round table of academics talking about failure of the Euro. They essentially conclude that the nation-state and idealism are dead, and that localism and hyper-ethnocentrism are on the rise. They don't think the Euro will fall apart at this point, but nobody has a clear vision of a successful, unified Europe either. The full article (paywalled) is here: http://harpers.org/archive/2014/02/how-germany-reconquered-europe/
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Jan 23, 2014 22:37
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"How Germany reconquered Europe"? A shot of a Nazi uniform on the cover with the Nazi flag on the sleeve, only the euro symbol in place of the swastika? Really? I'm sure it's a fine discussion in and of itself, but man.
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Jan 23, 2014 22:51
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Fabulous Knight posted:"How Germany reconquered Europe"? A shot of a Nazi uniform on the cover with the Nazi flag on the sleeve, only the euro symbol in place of the swastika? Really? I'm sure it's a fine discussion in and of itself, but man. Lol, gotta sell copies I suppose. The bulk of the discussion is about how the EU/Euro is essentially a projection of Germany's power, but I think the broader point is an open question as to the path forward for Europe.
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Jan 23, 2014 22:52
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Ardennes posted:Yeah calling either the February or October revolution "anarchist" is way too much even if workers some worker units chose to organize and arm themselves. The Bolsheviks had largely recovered from the August suppression and slander from a combination of factors. The rumors that they were funded with German gold turned out to be obvious bullshit, Kerensky was discredited by his association with the Kornilov affair, and the Bolsheviks and workers who supported them played an important role in halting Kornilov's coup attempt. The right-wing myth that the October Revolution was merely a Bolshevik coup with no mass support is ridiculous and easily disproved by the turning out of the factories against Kerensky's Cossacks in the immediate aftermath, but saying that it was entirely spontaneous (or anarchist) with no political direction from the Bolsheviks is also nonsense. Has there been any economic upturn in Greece, Spain, or Portugal recently? I remember seeing some hilariously optimistic predictions from the ECB about Greece that almost certainly have not been fulfilled, but is there any even illusory good news that can be claimed?
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Jan 24, 2014 00:05
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Rogue0071 posted:The Bolsheviks had largely recovered from the August suppression and slander from a combination of factors. The rumors that they were funded with German gold turned out to be obvious bullshit, Kerensky was discredited by his association with the Kornilov affair, and the Bolsheviks and workers who supported them played an important role in halting Kornilov's coup attempt. The right-wing myth that the October Revolution was merely a Bolshevik coup with no mass support is ridiculous and easily disproved by the turning out of the factories against Kerensky's Cossacks in the immediate aftermath, but saying that it was entirely spontaneous (or anarchist) with no political direction from the Bolsheviks is also nonsense. On another note, how's Ireland doing regarding fascists? I'm hearing that bogus reports of Irish recovery are common in the Irish and European press as well.
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Jan 24, 2014 00:10
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KoldPT posted:I assume so, yeah. I can't really speak for Spain's traditions (plus, even if I could I wouldn't do them justice - they had a civil war two generations ago and the country is very split along regional lines), but over here after '74 everything really shifted. I think Salazar's biggest influence was reinforcing the idea that we the Portuguese are a peaceful people, honestly. Our protests are mostly peaceful and there isn't a significant culture of violence anywhere aside from football ultras. If people want to oppress foreigners they'll usually vote CDS or something, but that isn't a big problem either because all the foreigners are running away, so we can only really oppress the Roma Peaceful isn't the right word. Resigned is more apt. Salazar went to war to keep control of the African colonies, and he raised a thunderstorm every time China looked at Macau. People fought, and died, to get rid of fascism. Even those who left, either because of political persecution, or to get away, never stopped dreaming of returning. Our revolution happened without bloodshed, but the two years that preceded it was filled with violence. The ones most folk remember were the street fights between supporters of the Socialist Party with the ones from the Communist Party. During the 80/90's when Cavaco Silva was Prime Minister there were plenty of massive protests that ended up going slightly south, being the most famous the protest on the 25 de Abril Bridge where the police was ordered to shoot over the protesters before they got rowdy. The legacy of Salazar isn't the peacefulness but the "Sad State". The Portuguese are a very sad and melancholic people, who endure the cruel fate handed to them with patience and without complaint. That's what Salazar and Estado Novo stood for. Futebol, Fado, Fatima. There was no lebensraum, or Greater Portugal stuff. There was just resignation to your fate. The nation was saved, why do you complain? But Salazar and the Estado Novo ended. They were wrong after all. Fado doesn't have to be the music of broken hopes, hearts, and eternal saudades, sung in dingy echoing darken rooms. Camané sings fado in rock stages, and the public goes wild. We are free and we won't turn back. So what happened? I think that for the old generations, the ones who still lived with Salazar, have become dispirited and disappointed, that all the conquests of April, voting, freedom of expression, were made worthless. What's the point of going to vote, when all the vital decisions are to be approved by a group of foreign organizations(not even countries!), a group of foreign organizations that you were never even consulted if you wanted them in your country. You can complain and protest, but in the end the morons that you voted for government just say "There is no alternative, TROIKA says we must, so we must.". For the new generation, there's betrayal. Promised a bright future, that if you study for your canudo(college degree) you would get to do the things your parents and grandparents never could. This was not even "get rich" but stuff like "knowing how to read", and not leaving country to go to France and wash stairs for the French. As it turns out, the canudos were worthless, and we are still going to France to wash stairs for the French, because this country is dead. Portugal isn't looking with nostalgia back on Salazar, but I think that the old vulture is laughing at us from the beyond. Rogue0071 posted:Has there been any economic upturn in Greece, Spain, or Portugal recently? I remember seeing some hilariously optimistic predictions from the ECB about Greece that almost certainly have not been fulfilled, but is there any even illusory good news that can be claimed? For Portugal there is no real upturn despite the positive return to the markets, and that we are no longer free falling economically. The economy is indeed recovering, but in the same sense that the Arctic ice is recovering. When you are at the bottom of trash bin, any crawl up is seen as a triumph, lest you forget you still deep in the trash. Unemployment is going down, but the majority of jobs created are jobs of 10 hours per week, barely part times. Then you have massive waves of immigration, and a shrinking active population. Jobs are being created, lot of business are being open up, but the same number closes as fast. Meanwhile government is still privatizing everything that isn't nailed down, it's state reforms are all about slashing pensions and college scholarships for science, destroying public schools by making being a teacher simply not worth it, and creating referendums about laws already passed in parliament 8 months ago. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jan 24, 2014 |
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Jan 24, 2014 00:15
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Rogue0071 posted:The Bolsheviks had largely recovered from the August suppression and slander from a combination of factors. The rumors that they were funded with German gold turned out to be obvious bullshit, Kerensky was discredited by his association with the Kornilov affair, and the Bolsheviks and workers who supported them played an important role in halting Kornilov's coup attempt. The right-wing myth that the October Revolution was merely a Bolshevik coup with no mass support is ridiculous and easily disproved by the turning out of the factories against Kerensky's Cossacks in the immediate aftermath, but saying that it was entirely spontaneous (or anarchist) with no political direction from the Bolsheviks is also nonsense. More or less my point, if they didn't have voluntary public support then they wouldn't have gone anywhere nor they couldn't have forced anyone to do anything without it. quote:Has there been any economic upturn in Greece, Spain, or Portugal recently? I remember seeing some hilariously optimistic predictions from the ECB about Greece that almost certainly have not been fulfilled, but is there any even illusory good news that can be claimed? I believe interest rates have slowly been dropping. Basically, nothing was fixed but the Eurozone isn't in a direct crisis where they won't have money to bail Southern Europe out. I believe they are still in negative growth, unemployment is still high and all of them are running deficits. Really nothing was fixed beyond it is unlikely it will explode in the short term but rather it is delayed to medium term (which will be even more spectacular because there will be even more debt on the books). Ardennes fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Jan 24, 2014 |
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Jan 24, 2014 02:29
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Less eurodoom, more eurodespair.
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Jan 24, 2014 02:31
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Electronico6 posted:very good post Yeah, I was using "peaceful" as the most direct translation of "o povo é sereno" there, but you explained it in more detail. Also, the economy does show some signs of improving - well, at least, it does if you watch TV. Every channel is flooded with the news that our deficit is actually expected to be a whole half a percent under the predictions! We are saved! The country is going back to its old greatness!!!! (Meanwhile in the real country, we have 36% youth unemployment and a dead NHS)
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Jan 24, 2014 02:42
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Electronico6 posted:For Portugal there is no real upturn despite the positive return to the markets, and that we are no longer free falling economically. The economy is indeed recovering, but in the same sense that the Arctic ice is recovering. When you are at the bottom of trash bin, any crawl up is seen as a triumph, lest you forget you still deep in the trash. Unemployment is going down, but the majority of jobs created are jobs of 10 hours per week, barely part times. Then you have massive waves of immigration, and a shrinking active population. Jobs are being created, lot of business are being open up, but the same number closes as fast. Pretty much what I expected, then.  Hurrah for neoliberalism!
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Jan 24, 2014 02:48
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Rogue0071 posted:The Bolsheviks had largely recovered from the August suppression and slander from a combination of factors. The rumors that they were funded with German gold turned out to be obvious bullshit, Kerensky was discredited by his association with the Kornilov affair, and the Bolsheviks and workers who supported them played an important role in halting Kornilov's coup attempt. The right-wing myth that the October Revolution was merely a Bolshevik coup with no mass support is ridiculous and easily disproved by the turning out of the factories against Kerensky's Cossacks in the immediate aftermath, but saying that it was entirely spontaneous (or anarchist) with no political direction from the Bolsheviks is also nonsense. The single biggest factor in the failure of the Karensky government was that they continued the war. The Kadets blew all of their popularity by doing the one thing that nobody wanted. If they had made peace with Germany I doubt the October Revolution would've happened.
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Jan 24, 2014 14:24
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:On another note, how's Ireland doing regarding fascists? I'm hearing that bogus reports of Irish recovery are common in the Irish and European press as well. There isn't really any organised fascist group in Ireland of note, there's a few small groups mainly active on the Internet who are explicitly fascist and a handful of individuals who pop in the press frequently (Justin Barrett and Gerry McGeough). There are the noted hard-right shitstains Youth Defence/Cóir who are using the abortion/europe debate to advance an ultra-conservative Catholic agenda but it's hard to figure out the exact size of their support as many people who take part in their pro-life rallies are still loyal to the mainstream political parties. Irish politics is weird in the sense that the largest parties are all coalitions of conservatives and liberals with centrist politics, the ideological differences can be incredible hard to spot for anyone not schooled in Irish political history. There have been a couple of absolutely groan-worthy attempts at Flag waving nationalism courtesy of some media commentators but these have largely fallen flat, the republican hard-left kind of have a monopoly on the teary-eyed nationalism thing and a big chunk of Irish society would rather chew their own foot off than vote for Sinn Fein.
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Jan 24, 2014 15:24
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Cerebral Bore posted:There usually isn't that much variety among the fash when the subject is whether to hate minorities or not. The variety would be the specific minorities that are the target du jour, but that's pretty much it. "Whether to hate minorities or not" is a really simplified version of what a particular strain of fascist/racist might believe in. Racism doesn't only take the form of unmitigated, outright disgust. I've known of groups that have a weird kind of respect for certain black nationalists, for example, based on their shared desire for racial segregation, as well as racist weeaboos who think the Japanese are a master race alongside white people. Someone earlier mentioned hating Muslim immigrants while praising Ahmadinejad for his views on Israel as if it were a contradiction; frankly, it isn't. Race theory is based on complete bunk science but that doesn't necessarily mean it's simple or ultra-reductive; cultish mythologies tend to become more complex, not less, as they shore themselves up against external contradiction and pressure. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Jan 24, 2014 |
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Jan 24, 2014 17:02
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Someone earlier mentioned hating Muslim immigrants while praising Ahmadinejad for his views on Israel as if it were a contradiction; frankly, it isn't. Race theory is based on complete bunk science but that doesn't necessarily mean it's simple or ultra-reductive; cultish mythologies tend to become more complex, not less, as they shore themselves up against external contradiction and pressure. 1. The Jews are trying to dilute the blood and culture of the people of the world, so they alone can remain distinct, united, and strong, and therefore in charge. 2. This is achieved through the ideology of Liberalism, which turns victims into weapons (immigration), and sabotages the ability of the targeted people to defend themselves (political correctness). Accept that, or something similar, and there's no contradiction between trying to run Muslims out of your country, while celebrating their successes abroad.
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Jan 24, 2014 18:22
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The EDL is peaceful you guys! It's those filthily UAFs you should be fighting against! I love biased Journalism  http://digitaljournal.com/article/362264 Richard Milnes posted:Exeter - The EDL held its last national demonstration of the year in Exeter, the county town of Devon in southwest England with its new leader Tim Ablitt at the helm.
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Jan 24, 2014 18:49
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Alright, I'm no genius, but this seems relevant. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ukraine-protests-what-exactly-is-going-on-in-kiev-9083107.html Seems to me like brutal repression of protests that border civil war might be relevant to the discussion of fascism in Europe.
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Jan 24, 2014 19:00
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Why do fascism and communism have to be the only alternatives to liberal democracy. What about other weird stuff invented during the Great Depression such as social credit or Technocracy?
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Jan 24, 2014 22:16
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Or the marble / attention economy?
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Jan 24, 2014 22:41
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SSJ2 Goku Wilders posted:Or the marble / attention economy? Oh lord don't start that shitshow again, this thread's gotten bad enough already.
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Jan 24, 2014 22:43
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The fact people dwell on it proves it has value (Eripsa et al, D&D Press, 2012)
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Jan 24, 2014 22:48
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SSJ2 Goku Wilders posted:Or the marble / attention economy? Why not? Cat video vs. pornography mech battles would be better than anything we ever got from liberalism, communism or fascism.
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Jan 24, 2014 22:59
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Maximo Roboto posted:Why do fascism and communism have to be the only alternatives to liberal democracy. What about other weird stuff invented during the Great Depression such as social credit or Technocracy? I'd guess it's because if you're hurting financially and your government isn't providing solutions, you'll tend to not want a new form of government that nobody has ever seen implemented fully before and might just end with you still hurting financially but now you're government is so mismanaged that it can't even provide what you had before the revolution, but instead want something people have seen succeed before, even if they've also seen it fail before. I do admit though, it might be interesting to see what happens if another political/economic theory gains significant traction. I suppose libertarianism is kinda spreading, but other than the USA, I can't think of anywhere that has a significant libertarian party/faction of a major party that is libertarian.
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Jan 25, 2014 00:01
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Uhm, so apparently somebody in the Ukraine is kidnapping activists from hospitals and taking them into the woods where they are stripped, tortured and killed in some cases. Some reports say that its the government, other point towards pro-Russian extremists http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/kidnapped-activist-verbytsky-found-dead-activist-lutsenko-describes-abduction-335401.html http://intellihub.com/confirmed-protesters-ukraine-kidnapped-hospitals-executed/ Here's also a video of police taking away several activists from a hospital. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkSZ0oVh6mw I guess at this point it's unwise to believe anything that is reported online from a conflict like this. The propaganda armies are out in full force, everyone has an agenda and of course there are rumours, mistakes, etc. Take nothing at face value.
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Jan 25, 2014 13:27
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Seems to fit a pattern of similar things we heard in Syria, Bahrain, etc however. Looks like victims of state violence cannot expect public medical facilities to be willing or capable of protecting them from yet further state violence.
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Jan 26, 2014 00:08
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Al Jazeera filmed at least a couple injured activists being taken from a suburban Kyiv hospital by uniformed police, and doctors they interviewed confirmed it as standard procedure. There's something to these claims.
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Jan 26, 2014 05:59
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In other news, an Anti-Semitic march took place in the streets of Downtown Paris! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxsldW-B2m0 From start to last, the chants used are: "Juif: Casse-toi, la France n’est pas à toi!" "Jews - gently caress off! France does not belong to you!" "Juif, Licra: on n’en veut pas!" "Jews, CIRA, we don’t want you!" "Juif, hors de France!" "Jews, out of France!" "Faurisson a raison! Chambres a Gaz, c’est du bidon!" "Faurisson was right! The Gas chambers are bullshit." quote:Paris — A march through Paris against French President Francois Hollande ended with anti-Semitic chants and cries of support for an anti-Semitic comedian.
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Jan 28, 2014 16:18
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Dieudonné isn't anti-semitic at all. Now I truly believe all those people saying that when he got banned from performing, he was just a poor man oppressed by the government. 
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Jan 28, 2014 16:48
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How seriously are Golden Dawn taken as a political force in Greece? Just glancing at wikipedia real quick, it said they've had about 6.9% of the vote. Is it a sure thing that they will never have much political support, and are just a whole lot of talk? Reading this, they sound so over the top, almost unreal. http://icantrelaxingreece.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/the-knife-will-go-in-at-the-ear-and-move-down-right-through/quote:When we Golden Dawn get elected, all these guys, all these fuckers who ruled Greece and took away the Greek people’s money, we will hack them to bits, all of them. The knife will go in at the ear and move down right through till it pops out between the third and fourth ribs. You got that? We’ll rip them up, all of them. All the old-timers in the Parliament will go. They’ve all been at it, they’ve gorged themselves [on public money]. We’ll rip their assholes apart, forget about making GBS threads, they won’t even be able to spit properly. ‘Cause we’ll stick some cock down their throats as well. You make sure you got this. quote:At another point Vathis says: “We respect all illegal immigrants.” His fellow Golden Dawners get upset: “What are you talking about? How come we respect them?” So, the ‘supervisor’ makes them feel at ease: “We don’t chop off their hands or their heads. Merely from their ankles downwards. Just their ankle tendons really.” quote:Plomaritis is asked how Golden Dawn will deal with immigrants once in power:
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Jan 28, 2014 18:46
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community ham boil posted:How seriously are Golden Dawn taken as a political force in Greece? Just glancing at wikipedia real quick, it said they've had about 6.9% of the vote. Is it a sure thing that they will never have much political support, and are just a whole lot of talk? Reading this, they sound so over the top, almost unreal. http://icantrelaxingreece.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/the-knife-will-go-in-at-the-ear-and-move-down-right-through/  That is some seriously over the top nazi hellspeech. What the hell? Where is this guy in the party?
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Jan 28, 2014 18:56
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community ham boil posted:How seriously are Golden Dawn taken as a political force in Greece? Just glancing at wikipedia real quick, it said they've had about 6.9% of the vote. Is it a sure thing that they will never have much political support, and are just a whole lot of talk? Reading this, they sound so over the top, almost unreal. http://icantrelaxingreece.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/the-knife-will-go-in-at-the-ear-and-move-down-right-through/ They have a good lot of support (around 10% these days according to polls), but it's mostly out of protest than honest adherance to neo-nazism. People blame the entrenched parties for everything and see no redemption for them, so they put their support behind the most loathed political entity since that's proof they are pure and not lapdogs of the system or what have you.
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Jan 28, 2014 19:03
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Hungarian fascist party Jobbik came to London but it wasn't a success, apparently Antifa Put Hungarian Neo-nazi Jobbik Party On The Run In London quote:Police had to box the Hungarian Neo-nazis in at Holborn subway station to protect them from antifascist demonstrators, who waved banners with the slogan “No Nazis, no Golden Dawn, no Jobbik, no BNP.” Jobbik hoped Hungarians living in London would come to their rally, instead they found them protesting against them: “I’m a Hungarian Jew: you murdered my family”, one man shouted at them, as the police dragged him away.” Some sad Hungarian fascists 
ekuNNN fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 20:18
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:"Whether to hate minorities or not" is a really simplified version of what a particular strain of fascist/racist might believe in. Racism doesn't only take the form of unmitigated, outright disgust. I've known of groups that have a weird kind of respect for certain black nationalists, for example, based on their shared desire for racial segregation, as well as racist weeaboos who think the Japanese are a master race alongside white people. Really influential in the post-war era, though, was the Nouvelle Droite (European New Right), Alain de Benoist and an assortment of conferences, journals and think tanks. Their view is what they call "ethnopluralist." This is basically what it looks like: Racially, ethnically and culturally "purified" nation-states with sharp boundaries drawn between them. Nations are biological, organic entities, and mixing cultures and ethnic groups across national boundaries weakens humanity's immune system, allowing viral pathogens like Judaism, liberalism, capitalism and communism to spread, sickening and (eventually) killing humanity as whole. Diversity within nation-states, or multiculturalism, erodes differences and diversity. But lots of little fascist states = global biological diversity. This gives the neo-fascists a framework for building ties with Iran, for example. (Iranian state media, Press TV, also gives these guys a platform.) Also look up Alexander Dugin. He's the leader of the Russian Neo-Eurasian Movement, and is another prominent thinker bopping around right now with these ideas. He also advocates establishing ties to the radical left on areas of mutual agreement: anti-capitalism, anti-globalization, etc. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 20:58
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Omi-Polari posted:He also advocates establishing ties to the radical left on areas of mutual agreement: anti-capitalism, anti-globalization, etc. This seems optimistic of him. If there's one thing leftists can agree on it's hating fascism.
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Jan 28, 2014 21:02
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ekuNNN posted:This seems optimistic of him. If there's one thing leftists can agree on it's hating fascism. But I disagree with you a little bit. Or at least, leftists can agree on hating fascism, but not all leftists define fascism the same way or know fascism when they see it. In my city there's an occasional neofolk music night with white nationalist musicians and their fans (quite tiny number actually) walking around in black shirt uniforms. I went to one and it was quite a sight. Well they played at an anarchist venue (which also hosts the anarchist book fair) and I tipped off one of my activist friends. He complained to the venue, and the anarchists there responded like "these guys aren't fascists, that's outrageous, what are you talking about." And then the anarchists said "we fight fascism every day, opposing the imperialist war machine blah blah blah." The same time, one of the band's singers is giving interviews to neofolk magazines talking about touring Germany and bemoaning the death of white European culture, and how he saw hip-hop graffiti everywhere but no swastikas, and how sad that was. And my reaction to these anarchists was: you guys are totally useless. Benito Mussolini could literally march through the front door and they wouldn't recognize him. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 21:41
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