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I've been to two subaru dealerships and two ford dealerships in the past year that have basically refused to let me test drive their nice cars (mustang and WRX). I dress like somebody's dad and half the time bring my wife. If I weren't saving for a nicer house I could pay cash for any car on their lot if I wanted too but I guess I look too young? Since I really want a '15 WRX I hope I can snag a test drive this year. 
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Jan 29, 2014 02:38
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It seems like almost all Subaru dealerships are dicks about test drives of any of their remotely interesting cars.
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Jan 29, 2014 02:47
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Guinness posted:It seems like almost all Subaru dealerships are dicks about test drives of any of their remotely interesting cars. For good reason sometimes.   Really though, all dealers are scum, every one, no exceptions. The fact that they still exist in the manner that they do in the age of the internet is disappointing. They're as bad as the music industry when they lawyer up to protect a failing business model instead of adapting to the changing market.
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Jan 29, 2014 02:53
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fknlo posted:They're getting close. Saw a Silverado 2500 crew cab at the store today. It was as far forward in the space as it could be without hanging out in the aisle and still stuck about 2 feet into the space behind it. That's just ridiculous.
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Jan 29, 2014 02:53
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No, heavy-duty pickups haven't grown much over the years. What has grown are the number of morons named Chad with their hats on back to front who feel they need a heavy-duty pickup to go grocery shopping.
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Jan 29, 2014 04:00
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MrChips posted:No, heavy-duty pickups haven't grown much over the years. What has grown are the number of morons named Chad with their hats on back to front who feel they need a heavy-duty pickup to go grocery shopping. Has that number really increased that much, either, though? People have always been retarded. And with the significantly higher cost of gas these days it's not like they're not paying for it.
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Jan 29, 2014 04:03
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Cream_Filling posted:Has that number really increased that much, either, though? People have always been retarded. And with the significantly higher cost of gas these days it's not like they're not paying for it. If you're suggesting that the number of oversized vehicles driven by people who have no legitimate reason to own them hasn't exploded over the last 20 years, I have to ask what you're doing in this forum, because you clearly haven't driven anywhere lately. Edit: and yes, I'm including 90% of SUV drivers in this, so maybe I'm not being specific enough, but there has certainly been an increase in the number of lifted pickup trucks too.
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Jan 29, 2014 04:08
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Disgruntled Bovine posted:If you're suggesting that the number of oversized vehicles driven by people who have no legitimate reason to own them hasn't exploded over the last 20 years, I have to ask what you're doing in this forum, because you clearly haven't driven anywhere lately. How can you claim to know what's been on the roads in one region for the past 20-30 years let alone the whole country? Statistics would trump any random anecdotal guess based on 20-30 years of hazy memories. Lifted bro trucks have been popular since at least the 80s if not earlier, and poo poo like lifted mud trucks and proto-monster trucks were a scene since the 60s and 70s. Not to mention the fact that even regular dad sedans were pushing 4-5000 pounds at the time. Seriously unless you're close to 40 you're basically just making a lazy guess based purely on pop car memes and not even raw experience. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Jan 29, 2014 |
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Jan 29, 2014 04:16
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Cream_Filling posted:How can you claim to know what's been on the roads in one region for the past 20-30 years let alone the whole country. Statistics would trump any random anecdotal guess based on 20-30 years of hazy memories. And the ford f-series has been the best selling vehicle in the US for 32 years. Thirty two. That takes us back to 1982. with 33 million sold since it's inception in 1948, that's averaging 507,692 per year, with last years sales totaling around 800,000, it's not too far north of a normal year.
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Jan 29, 2014 04:26
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Cream_Filling posted:How can you claim to know what's been on the roads in one region for the past 20-30 years let alone the whole country? Statistics would trump any random anecdotal guess based on 20-30 years of hazy memories. I'm not saying they haven't been around, I'm just saying they're a lot more common than they used to be. To be fair though you're right, I'm talking about my experience in the Northeast, not the entire country.
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Jan 29, 2014 04:27
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Guinness posted:It seems like almost all Subaru dealerships are dicks about test drives of any of their remotely interesting cars. Maybe it's because I'm in Colorado, but there are so many dealerships and so much inventory here that I've driven STi's and BRZ's with no problem. I've been pretty lucky in the test drive front though, in the past year I've driven a good chunk of BMW's lineup, and I got invited to the Porsche World Roadshow this year where I was able to drive a variety of 911's and Caymans at the track. For some reason though, I had a Mitsubishi dealership deny me a test drive in a used Evo unless I sat down with their finance guys.
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Jan 29, 2014 04:31
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I've never been turned down a test drive at Subie or any other dealership near me here in the PacNW. I haven't test driven at Benz or Bimmer, though, snobbiest place I've been has been Lexus or Acura.
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Jan 29, 2014 04:55
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The local two location Ford dealer has let me test drive pretty much anything except the ST models. Bob Rohrmans lots don't even like getting the keys out for used cars.
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Jan 29, 2014 07:04
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blk posted:I've never been turned down a test drive at Subie or any other dealership near me here in the PacNW. I haven't test driven at Benz or Bimmer, though, snobbiest place I've been has been Lexus or Acura. Yeah I stopped by the Subie dealer south of Bellingham and was just chatting with the sales guy about 08 STI's and he asked me if I wanted a test drive, tossed me the keys and said lets go.
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Jan 29, 2014 09:07
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Cream_Filling posted:How can you claim to know what's been on the roads in one region for the past 20-30 years let alone the whole country? Statistics would trump any random anecdotal guess based on 20-30 years of hazy memories. I'm close to 40 and based on highly accurate personal anecdotes I'll say this shift happened much closer to the 20 years ago timeframe than anything recent. Data points being the Explorer coming out in 1990, with the Expedition in '97 and Escalade in '99 kinda marking peak silliness. The trend since then with car-based SUVs has brought that size trend back down. And while Cream_Filling mentioned the big dad sedans, you also had the big '70s / '80s momwagons that could easily dwarf an Explorer in every metric but height. The Oil Crisis-triggered phase of car shrinkage was a historical anomaly, not a baseline.
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Jan 29, 2014 11:12
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Cream_Filling posted:How can you claim to know what's been on the roads in one region for the past 20-30 years let alone the whole country? Statistics would trump any random anecdotal guess based on 20-30 years of hazy memories. I started driving in 1984 and nobody had extra or double cabs back then, only regular cab trucks that were taller than the cars at the time, but not much longer (sometimes shorter) and could fit in a parking space. 4x4's were also extremely rare those days and the lifted monster version was still a regular cab in almost all cases. This is in California so we were taking these things anywhere from the beaches and even up to the ski resorts somehow (among many other cars that would be considered hazardous these days). There were also a few Blazers/Broncos around too obviously and those were almost always 4x4 if I recall and considered quite a luxury, but again regular cab length.  Double cabs really didn't get popular and assume their newer, secondary role as SUV replacement until under 10 years ago, IMO. Keyser_Soze fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Jan 29, 2014 |
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Jan 29, 2014 13:28
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Trucks haven't really gotten bigger. Cars have gotten smaller, largely because of CAFE. SUVs became popular because people still prefer big cars, but the government taxes them out of existence, unless there's a "flat load floor." Then it's a truck, or SUV, and therefore not subject to the same rules as cars, and you can get yourself an Excursion for what you would pay for a "full size car" with probably less than half the interior volume. Great loving system we have, isn't it?
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Jan 29, 2014 15:03
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Powershift posted:And the ford f-series has been the best selling vehicle in the US for 32 years. Thirty two. That takes us back to 1982. with 33 million sold since it's inception in 1948, that's averaging 507,692 per year, with last years sales totaling around 800,000, it's not too far north of a normal year. I hate this stat. Doesn't Ford lump in every F-pick up they sell into that? So it's not just the F150 but the F250-750?
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Jan 29, 2014 15:28
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When dealerships deny test drives, are you just supposed to buy the car without touching it? Seems kind of ridiculous.
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Jan 29, 2014 16:12
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MrChips posted:No, heavy-duty pickups haven't grown much over the years. What has grown are the number of morons named Chad with their hats on back to front who feel they need a heavy-duty pickup to go grocery shopping. Disgruntled Bovine posted:If you're suggesting that the number of oversized vehicles driven by people who have no legitimate reason to own them hasn't exploded over the last 20 years, I have to ask what you're doing in this forum, because you clearly haven't driven anywhere lately. Up until the 1980s, an American "compact" car like the Chevy Nova was longer than a modern Chrysler 300. "Standard" cars were larger still, and the "full size" 1988 Cadillac Brougham I had was longer than my in-law's Ford Expedition. The SUV boom came right along with the death of these sorts of large cars. It was a baton-pass, not a change in behavior. If anything, the availability of the tiny, well-optioned car and the car-based crossover are the real shift in behavior of the last 10 years.
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Jan 29, 2014 16:16
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Xguard86 posted:When dealerships deny test drives, are you just supposed to buy the car without touching it? Seems kind of ridiculous. That is why they want you to do. If you are smart, you walk away and go to the next dealer down the street. Subaru dealer wanted me to get financing in place for a used WRX before they would let me test drive it, claiming I wasn't "qualified" to drive a high-performance vehicle. I had driven to the lot in my brothers ZL1. Some dealers just suck.
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Jan 29, 2014 16:44
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Xguard86 posted:When dealerships deny test drives, are you just supposed to buy the car without touching it? Seems kind of ridiculous. Talked to a Subaru dealer Monday, they informed me they don't do BRZ test drives. When I questioned that they were happy to inform me that if I went through the buying process and got approved, then they would let me drive it. Oh, and if I didn't like it then they would tear up the paper work and let me go on my merry way.
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Jan 29, 2014 16:51
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That's bullshit. I had no problem walking into a dealer last weekend and driving a BRZ for 20 minutes. Feels good, man.
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Jan 29, 2014 17:08
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My step-dad owned a car parts shop when he was younger, so did what any twenty-something with extra cash would do and go and buy a Porsche. Except no one in the dealer would even talk to him, let alone test drive one. Dealers are dicks, do you have to turn up in one before you can buy another one? How can I get on the Porsche ladder? 
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Jan 29, 2014 17:19
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I've never had such an issue at a dealer. Scummy salesmen, terrible delays, etc. etc. But no matter the make, they're always hopping eager to get you out onto the road in whatever they have on the lot. So anyway to change the subject to an actual new car, what the word on the new Volvo wagon, the V60 or whatever? The poverty spec one (not that that's really a thing in a Volvo) is a turbo four with plenty of go power and an 8 speed auto. Why am I not hearing more about this car?
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Jan 29, 2014 17:26
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BraveUlysses posted:That's bullshit. I had no problem walking into a dealer last weekend and driving a BRZ for 20 minutes. Feels good, man. I was pretty happy they didn't allow test drives at the dealership I bought mine at. I test drove an FR-S, loved it, but the dealership kind of sucked and was really pushy. I went to look at the Subaru and they were great to deal with, said I hadn't decided on the FR-S or BRZ yet, and they were fine with that, didn't try to push me really hard or anything. I went back to the Toyota dealership to watch someone learning to drive a clutch on the FR-S I had been looking at. It had like 100 miles on it already. I went with the BRZ that had less than 10. All that said, not allowing test drives on a USED car is ridiculous. Even 2 cars of the same model/year can feel completely different after 40,000 miles or whatever. Now I'm looking at the FT-1 hoping it's a real thing, that's one of the few things I'd trade the BRZ for.
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Jan 29, 2014 17:31
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Q_res posted:Talked to a Subaru dealer Monday, they informed me they don't do BRZ test drives. When I questioned that they were happy to inform me that if I went through the buying process and got approved, then they would let me drive it. Oh, and if I didn't like it then they would tear up the paper work and let me go on my merry way. This is honestly the best way to do it with new cars. As the buyer, you know the "new" car you're going to buy hasn't been flogged by window-shoppers, and the dealer gets to reserve their $20,000+ piece of merchandise for potential customers. Dealerships that do enough volume can probably justify very loose test-driving policies as advertising expenses, but with cars that are relatively low volume and pretty squarely targeted at demographics who hit the sales-manager nightmare combo of, on average, not being able to afford a new car and being high risk drivers, you can't be mad about a few hoops standing in the way of a test drive. But yes, as has been mentioned, you are insane if you buy a used car without a test drive, and any used car dealership with that policy is prima facie shady as gently caress.
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Jan 29, 2014 17:43
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A dealer can allow you to test drive a new car and then allow you to place an order for one. Presumably they sell the "new" cars with a few hundred miles on them to people who don't worry about such things.
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Jan 29, 2014 18:01
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Powershift posted:And the ford f-series has been the best selling vehicle in the US for 32 years. Thirty two. That takes us back to 1982. with 33 million sold since it's inception in 1948, that's averaging 507,692 per year, with last years sales totaling around 800,000, it's not too far north of a normal year. The GM c/k truck has been the best selling all these years. Its just the models get split between the GM and Chevy truck. Combine them and they put a whopping on Ford's F150.
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Jan 29, 2014 19:12
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I don't know if that point can be made effectively without an image of Calvin urinating on something
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Jan 29, 2014 19:16
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MrYenko posted:Trucks haven't really gotten bigger. Cars have gotten smaller, largely because of CAFE. 
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Jan 29, 2014 19:45
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In 2013 Ford sold 763,402 in the US compared to 664,803 for GM (480,414 silverado, 184,389 sierra). GM hasn't won since 09.
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Jan 29, 2014 19:46
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For everyone who kept saying I was wanting the wrong thing from the BRZ/FRS etc. when whining about not enough power this man more articulately explains what I was getting at. Also GT86 vs Turbo Miata. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytxJvuTy8As
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Jan 29, 2014 19:51
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Amphion posted:In 2013 Ford sold 763,402 in the US compared to 664,803 for GM (480,414 silverado, 184,389 sierra). GM hasn't won since 09. Yeah, it's actually a big deal when the GM twins combine to beat Ford. It's definitely not an every year thing.
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Jan 29, 2014 19:52
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Amphion posted:In 2013 Ford sold 763,402 in the US compared to 664,803 for GM (480,414 silverado, 184,389 sierra). GM hasn't won since 09. Except once again, Ford counts in the F450-F750 in their F-series figures. The GM vehicles only go up to 3500 and there's no GM equivalent 4500-7500 trucks. Just another reason these numbers are bullshit.
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Jan 29, 2014 19:53
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http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/02/who-sold-the-most-half-tons-in-2012/comments/page/2/ Nope, still the best-selling half-ton. Though Chevy+GMC does beat it in combined sales. Combining them is a bit of a cop out though. Different brands, different dealer networks, different styling. Q_res fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Jan 29, 2014 |
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Jan 29, 2014 20:25
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Q_res posted:http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/02/who-sold-the-most-half-tons-in-2012/comments/page/2/ That's the thing about sales numbers, you can fudge them however you like to fit your desired answer. It's also how Ford can say the Focus is the best selling car in the world because they sell it as the Focus globally. Whereas the Corolla might also be able to claim the title if not for being called different things in different markets (despite it being essentially the same). In other new car news, this was cool to see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOqWlOrlkIg Fun to see the Tesla have nearly identical performance to the new C7. Granted the launch on the first race was pretty bad for the Chevy but still.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:32
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Rhyno posted:The local two location Ford dealer has let me test drive pretty much anything except the ST models. I drove to the local Ford dealer with my '08 mustang and they wouldn't let me test drive the '12...They were extra scummy in saying "We don't have plates for them" rather than "We don't trust your 20-something y.o. face".
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Jan 29, 2014 20:52
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That's not the fuckin point you goobers. The point is, one of the two pick-up lines was the best selling vehicle in north America since at least 1982. Pickups on the road aren't a new thing, and the half tons at least haven't grown significantly since. The 84 f-150 reg cab short box 4x4 weighs about 4750lbs, The current one weighs 4925lbs. The next one could weigh anywhere between 4225lbs and 4700lbs. Thwomp posted:That's the thing about sales numbers, you can fudge them however you like to fit your desired answer. Toyota tried claiming the corolla was the best selling vehicle, including the matrix because it is sold as a corolla somewhere in the world, and a bunch of other unrelated vehicles because they had corolla in the name. This is the focus everywhere in the world.  These are "corollas" according to toyota    
Powershift fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jan 29, 2014 |
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Jan 29, 2014 20:53
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I hear that Kia have confirmed a tentative 2016 launch date for the GT4 concept they had at Detroit. Definitely going to be keeping an eye on that.
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