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lol 'mixer mortgages' get the gently caress out http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/mixer-mortages-make-vancouver-home-ownership-possible-1.2514737
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Jan 29, 2014 03:31
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etalian posted:It's basically like trusting bob the honest used car salesman to not sell you a lemon. Having quotes by realtors in articles asking "is the housing market OK? always struck me as asking bob the honest used car salesman if now is a good time to buy a used car.
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Jan 29, 2014 04:28
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LemonDrizzle posted:$700k to buy, $70k/year to maintain. Don't worry about that, you'll just unload it in a couple of months for 900k!
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Jan 29, 2014 04:38
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Cultural Imperial posted:lol 'mixer mortgages' I once daydreamed about this idea with roomies, but we dismissed it as far too fanciful and complex for any bank to bother dipping their hands into. Clearly we were wrong. 
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Jan 29, 2014 06:18
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Lexicon posted:I don't think realtor-types are especially well-known for their ability to make a sober analysis about the health of a real estate market, especially one outside their own 'jurisdiction'. This isn't a group of economists or financial mathematicians we're talking about here - their profession's primary valued competency seems to be in generating adjectives for countertops or flooring. It's not clear why realtor continues to exist as a profession.
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Jan 29, 2014 06:51
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Rime posted:I once daydreamed about this idea with roomies, but we dismissed it as far too fanciful and complex for any bank to bother dipping their hands into. Anyone who values their relationships more than money would stay clear of this loving nonsense.
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Jan 29, 2014 07:16
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Rime posted:I once daydreamed about this idea with roomies, but we dismissed it as far too fanciful and complex for any bank to bother dipping their hands into. Not to mention how mingling finances especially two households sharing the same debt sounds like a recipe for relationship trainwreck.
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Jan 29, 2014 07:18
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Cultural Imperial posted:Anyone who values their relationships more than money would stay clear of this loving nonsense. A friend of mine did one of those a bit over a year ago and it worked about as well as you can expect. He is now the sole owner, paying twice his original expected mortgage and ate an early refinancing fee after the first year. Just rent you big dummies.
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Jan 29, 2014 16:31
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How many years are we realistically talking here before I can safely buy a house? Renting in Calgary at the moment, but will have a computer science degree and a poo poo ton of IT experience come summer, so moving is not a problem. BC has been on the radar, possibly Victoria as I have some family out there and I've heard the tech sector is doing pretty well.
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Jan 29, 2014 16:35
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w00tmonger posted:How many years are we realistically talking here before I can safely buy a house? No one knows. A rule of thumb: buy when everyone tells you what a terrible mistake it is to own property. w00tmonger posted:Renting in Calgary at the moment, but will have a computer science degree and a poo poo ton of IT experience come summer, so moving is not a problem. BC has been on the radar, possibly Victoria as I have some family out there and I've heard the tech sector is doing pretty well. Victoria is a beautiful place - personally I love it, and would consider living there. However it has a perpetually mediocre economy. The presence of a few startups here and there and enterprise-shops turning out dreary government software doesn't really change that. Keep that in mind. Some unsolicited advice: For Christ's sake man, if you're just about to graduate with a valuable degree - give your head a shake and forget about loving real estate in Canada for 5-10 years at least. Go and live somewhere cool, travel a bunch, start a company - whatever. Don't waste your youth worrying about owning and then working to pay off an overpriced bung in Saanich. Kids these days...
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Jan 29, 2014 16:45
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Just a reminder that even citywide statistics can mask somewhat significant declines in specific areas. From Ottawa's Centretown News, downtown condo prices dropped in 2013: Kylie Kendall posted:The Ottawa condo market saw a drop in prices in 2013 due to a “supply overflow,” according to a new report by Royal LePage Realty. The Royal Lepage report in question: http://docs.rlpnetwork.com/rlp.ca/hps/Q3_2013_HPS_EN.pdf
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Jan 29, 2014 16:49
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Lexicon posted:No one knows. A rule of thumb: buy when everyone tells you what a terrible mistake it is to own property.
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Jan 29, 2014 17:00
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Kafka Esq. posted:Well, this thread has convinced me. I'm buying a house right now! I mean 'the man on the street' - not the erudite sages in this thread 
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Jan 29, 2014 17:26
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w00tmonger posted:How many years are we realistically talking here before I can safely buy a house?
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Jan 29, 2014 17:47
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more friedman units posted:It's not clear why realtor continues to exist as a profession. Selling houses is such a pain the rear end that no one wants to do it themselves.
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Jan 29, 2014 17:49
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Xoidanor posted:Selling houses is such a pain the rear end that no one wants to do it themselves. For sure - it makes perfect sense that realtors exist. It's a classic case of a market that requires a broker. Where I part company with them, however, is their monopolistic control of sales data, weird licensing rules, and the fact that they somehow think a brokerage fee of 4-7% of a loving property value is remotely justified.
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Jan 29, 2014 18:04
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Come on guys, MLS®, REALTOR®, show the brands some respect!
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Jan 29, 2014 18:10
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LemonDrizzle posted:Anyone can diagnose a bubble but no one can reliably tell you when it's going to burst; could be tomorrow, could be several years away. The best thing you can do under the circumstances if you want to own a house will be to get a good job, rent, and accumulate the biggest pot of cash you can while waiting for the correction, then buy while the dust is settling after the crash. This was basically my plan. I don't really have an aversion to renting, but I would love to eventually get a couple acres somewhere.
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Jan 29, 2014 19:04
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BC/Vancouver goons, what are people's thoughts on cooperative housing? I'm still just renting right now but down the road it seems like a good model as an alternative to owning. Can anyone give me a good list of pros and cons? I like the idea in a well, idealistic way (ethics of co-ownership, sustainability, intentional community yada yada yada) but I need some reality for it.
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Jan 29, 2014 19:20
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swagger like us posted:BC/Vancouver goons, what are people's thoughts on cooperative housing? I'm still just renting right now but down the road it seems like a good model as an alternative to owning. Living with roommates with their extended families in a house that's going to lose a ton of value in a few years following an incoming crash. Your ''savvy'' investment will sour your relationships with the people living in the house and will become a vessel of shame for the rest of your life.
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Jan 29, 2014 19:31
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swagger like us posted:BC/Vancouver goons, what are people's thoughts on cooperative housing? I'm still just renting right now but down the road it seems like a good model as an alternative to owning. Is it really that much more ethical or sustainable though? I mean, I suppose it could be - but I suspect more than a few of these outfits think they're saving the planet simply by virtue of having a few miserable basil plants in the forecourt.
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Jan 29, 2014 19:47
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quote:Living with roommates with their extended families in a house that's going to lose a ton of value in a few years following an incoming crash. Your ''savvy'' investment will sour your relationships with the people living in the house and will become a vessel of shame for the rest of your life. Please note: I am not talking about co-ownership mortgages, I am talking about Cooperative Housing thats regulated by the BC Cooperative Association Act. Its an unfortunate coincidence that I asked this question after that article about co-ownership mortgages, but it has nothing to do with that. http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/co/buho/gucoho/fash/fash_002.cfm quote:Is it really that much more ethical or sustainable though? I mean, I suppose it could be - but I suspect more than a few of these outfits think they're saving the planet simply by virtue of having a few miserable basil plants in the forecourt. Simply ethical/sustainable/efficient because sharing housing lowers the need for every single person in North America to have a house in the suburbs, with white picket fence and 2.5 kids. But, I am not that focused on the sustainability aspect, I am more interested in the intentional community/philosophy of it than anything else. Though its rather hippie, and Im a little centrist right-leaning, I still find that idea appealing for how I'd like to live in society. Not as interested in living again in the suburbs, waving to my neighbour once a week as I pull out of my garage, and not have the only interactions be through some lovely strata council where NIMBYs complain about people's lawns. Anyways, as a young adult I am of course not interested in owning a home right now, and though most coops sell/market themselves as an alternative to buying a home not renting per se, I still think it seems like an interesting living arrangement. Call me a hippie I guess but I like the idea of hanging out in common spaces with my neighbours, instead of just awkwardly waving at them in the hall? And instead of some crappy strata, having a democratic process to tackle housing expenses (usually done through donating x hours per month on different projects). I have a close family friend who recently started a cooperative house in their town, and I went to soem of their presentations and its interesting to say the least. I figured this would be a worthy place to start for experiences. swagger like us fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jan 29, 2014 |
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Jan 29, 2014 19:50
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Lexicon posted:Some unsolicited advice: For Christ's sake man, if you're just about to graduate with a valuable degree - give your head a shake and forget about loving real estate in Canada for 5-10 years at least. Go and live somewhere cool, travel a bunch, start a company - whatever. Don't waste your youth worrying about owning and then working to pay off an overpriced bung in Saanich. Kids these days... I deeply regret not doing more of this when I was younger and would highly recommend anyone just finishing school to go gently caress around for a while before worrying about home ownership and similar bullshit.
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Jan 29, 2014 19:56
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swagger like us posted:BC/Vancouver goons, what are people's thoughts on cooperative housing? I'm still just renting right now but down the road it seems like a good model as an alternative to owning. Co-op housing is definitely an alternative to owning a condo (closest comparable), but you need to very carefully consider the benefits and risks. Key issues that I'm aware of are that the ownership structure (essentially buying a share in the corp that owns the building) does not have the same security as direct ownership of the strata unit. For this reason, it is much harder to find banks that will lend against it, and if they do, you will usually get a much lower leverage rate. I have a friend who owns one and was only able to get 70% leverage (meaning 30% down). The co-op structure also means it can be much harder to enforce your rights as owner should the co-op decide to do something that is detrimental to your property value. That's about the limit of my knowledge but everything I've seen has made me uncomfortable with the idea.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:01
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Thanks for the spoiler tags I'm glad no popular movie or video game plot has been spoiled for me.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:04
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Co-op housing is definitely an alternative to owning a condo (closest comparable), but you need to very carefully consider the benefits and risks. Key issues that I'm aware of are that the ownership structure (essentially buying a share in the corp that owns the building) does not have the same security as direct ownership of the strata unit. For this reason, it is much harder to find banks that will lend against it, and if they do, you will usually get a much lower leverage rate. I have a friend who owns one and was only able to get 70% leverage (meaning 30% down). The co-op structure also means it can be much harder to enforce your rights as owner should the co-op decide to do something that is detrimental to your property value. That's about the limit of my knowledge but everything I've seen has made me uncomfortable with the idea. What about Co-op structures that don't necessarily require lending? There's one near me that simply has a one-time share purchase of $2,700 for a 2BDR+Den stacked and a monthly fee $1,270. This type has you with your own kitchen and bathroom, but shared laundry etc. Ownership of the house is run by democratic processes, and this particular cooperative has a philosophy of donating x number of hours per month to do maintenance, while voting on larger projects by committee. I guess though with this model you don't have any access to equity nor can you actually make money from your house say 20-30yrs down the road. Is this the biggest flaw with this? Though again, this one markets itself as an alternative to buying (what with the share purchase and all), though cost/arrangement wise it seems more like renting.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:06
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Every single co-op I've ever heard of has always fell into horrible drama, the more hippie-ish the more likely. All this cooperation and democracy and communal labour sounds nice but all it takes is a single disagreement and suddenly the entire building is a hostile environment and nothing gets done and poo poo is falling apart. A dude I knew bought into one somewhere in central BC that was a group of "like minded" arty hippie types and within a few months it was basically survivor with factions and plots and people forming alliances to kick other people out or make life miserable for them. And these aren't idiot 20-somethings these are fully grown adults. Then again co-ops tend to attract a few "types". In a more urban setting a co-op near me for more rich people ended with a legal clusterfuck when some of the owners decided to just do renos and additions without approval from the co-op. Last I heard they've spent more on legal fees than the renos were worth, mostly fighting each other in a couple blocs of residents. One side is demanding the people who did the renos to pay to restore things to how they were, mostly out of spite, while the people who did the renos to their unit are demanding compensation or something to reflect the "increased value" they added. It's apparently a deadlock so the co-op can't resolve it so off to court. Condo strats are bad enough and those at least have legal ownership, co-ops are just a recipe for cliques and politics and getting absolutely hosed because you didn't make the right political alliances. I'm sure it's a bit like e/n where you only hear about the hosed up situations, I'm sure there's successful drama-free co-ops.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:16
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swagger like us posted:What about Co-op structures that don't necessarily require lending? There's one near me that simply has a one-time share purchase of $2,700 for a 2BDR+Den stacked and a monthly fee $1,270. This type has you with your own kitchen and bathroom, but shared laundry etc. Ownership of the house is run by democratic processes, and this particular cooperative has a philosophy of donating x number of hours per month to do maintenance, while voting on larger projects by committee. That doesn't sound like ownership to me, it sounds like some sort of community-oriented rental arrangement. I'd take a close look at the agreement; I doubt from your description that you are getting any claim to the underlying property and would be out on your rear end should the ultimate owner decide to sell. Look at what rights you would have should someone in the co-op choose not to take up their share of the maintenance duties or fails to pay their own rent or whatever it is. Would other members be on the hook? What happens when you move out? Do you get some of the funds back? If not, who keeps them? What is the initial larger payment for? These are some of the questions I would have.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:18
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Kalenn Istarion posted:That doesn't sound like ownership to me, it sounds like some sort of community-oriented rental arrangement. I'd take a close look at the agreement; I doubt from your description that you are getting any claim to the underlying property and would be out on your rear end should the ultimate owner decide to sell. Thanks, these are some of the feedback/experience I am trying to research with. To (I think) answer your question, I don't think you purchase ownership of the underlying property, but you are technically purchasing a share into the Co-operative Association that owns the property. From there, the Co-op Association has to follow the BCCHA legislation in how they're governed (which usually involves membership into various committees and a per-person voting structure on decisions). Those technical issues though are spot on with what I am looking for to research. swagger like us fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jan 29, 2014 |
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Jan 29, 2014 20:31
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swagger like us posted:To (I think) answer your question, I don't think you purchase ownership of the underlying property, but you are technically purchasing a share into the Co-operative Association that owns the property. This wasn't a question - in a co-op like the one my friend is invested in, you buy a share from the previous owner, which operates like a share in a corp which owns the property. The one you're considering doesn't really sound like that though - it sounds more like you're paying a membership fee for your spot in the place and wouldn't even have the same rights as my friend would have in his co-op.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:42
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If I recall though there recently was a court case that went through in BC saying that if 80% of the co-op members decided to liquidate the co-op housing corporation they could force the sale through over the objections of the minority. One more thing to think about. If the land becomes too valuable the housing co-op could force the sale and you'll be out of a home.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:43
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Kalenn Istarion posted:This wasn't a question - in a co-op like the one my friend is invested in, you buy a share from the previous owner, which operates like a share in a corp which owns the property. The one you're considering doesn't really sound like that though - it sounds more like you're paying a membership fee for your spot in the place and wouldn't even have the same rights as my friend would have in his co-op. I don't think it really runs the same as a share in the corp because in a corp you have shareholders and then the managers, while in a cooperative association all of the "shareholders" are also members of the committee who all have an equal vote on issues, and your rights in this "corporation" is governed by the Cooperatives Association act. Thus, maybe like the poster above made a good point the only way the "owner" (i.e. the majority of the coop) could liquidate the housing is through a substantial voting majority. Though you're right that this particular coop sounds to be a bit different than your friend's situation. You do however purchase a share into the Coop, and ontop of that have monthly fees relegated to the Coops budget.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:49
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swagger like us posted:Simply ethical/sustainable/efficient because sharing housing lowers the need for every single person in North America to have a house in the suburbs, with white picket fence and 2.5 kids. Oh sure, but this argument would seem to confuse the legal structure of ownership with the actual urban/suburban nature of the dwelling(s). I can imagine a co-op on a vast tract of land in a horrible exurb, as well as a co-op on a dense walk-up street in Montreal. I see what you're getting at though. swagger like us posted:But, I am not that focused on the sustainability aspect, I am more interested in the intentional community/philosophy of it than anything else. Though its rather hippie, and Im a little centrist right-leaning, I still find that idea appealing for how I'd like to live in society. Yeah, makes sense.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:49
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Lol Ottawa's market is fuuuuuucked Check out @BenRabidoux's Tweet: https://twitter.com/BenRabidoux/status/428619060184494080
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Jan 29, 2014 21:23
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Cultural Imperial posted:Lol Ottawa's market is fuuuuuucked I love Ben Rabidoux's twitter feed. Rarely a day goes by that he doesn't seem personally shell-shocked by the various data points that come up.
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Jan 29, 2014 21:32
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Pimco has an opinion on Canada's housing market. https://canada.pimco.com/EN/Insights/Pages/All-Things-in-Moderation-Including-Housing.aspx
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Jan 29, 2014 21:42
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Cultural Imperial posted:Pimco has an opinion on Canada's housing market. It is quite nice of them to put their opinions on the Canadian dollar right next to them so we have a yardstick to use. quote:In this environment, we think the Canadian dollar should remain attractive, 10-year bonds should offer the potential for gains, and provincial bonds will likely outperform federal government and corporate bonds. 
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Jan 29, 2014 21:57
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Baronjutter posted:Every single co-op I've ever heard of has always fell into horrible drama, the more hippie-ish the more likely. All this cooperation and democracy and communal labour sounds nice but all it takes is a single disagreement and suddenly the entire building is a hostile environment and nothing gets done and poo poo is falling apart. A dude I knew bought into one somewhere in central BC that was a group of "like minded" arty hippie types and within a few months it was basically survivor with factions and plots and people forming alliances to kick other people out or make life miserable for them. And these aren't idiot 20-somethings these are fully grown adults. Then again co-ops tend to attract a few "types". This is absolutely not my family's experience with co-ops at all. They're pretty swell imo.
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Jan 29, 2014 22:36
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Cultural Imperial posted:Lol Ottawa's market is fuuuuuucked I hope it crashes already so I can tell all my co workers to eat a dick. "Oh you should borrow money for a down payment and get in while you can. You can get into a 2 bedroom condo with a mortgage the same as your rent (+condo fees +utilities +property taxes +maintenance). Stop paying someone else's mortgage!" Apparently a bubble can't exist until it pops. I've explained the whole thing to them.
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Jan 29, 2014 22:49
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Math You posted:I hope it crashes already so I can tell all my co workers to eat a dick. My aunt and uncle said that verbatim when they bought in a dying mill town up the coast. Now they have a $500k white elephant that they can never sell. But gently caress those thundercunts anyways, they deserve it.
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Jan 29, 2014 22:54
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