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If Saionji was in fact Ibuki's killer, then it's consistent, albeit kind of horrible for her character development. Her only friend gets killed on the arguably accidental order of the yakuza kid, everyone gives him some level of sympathy thereafter and at best pity Saionji herself (and/or don't appreciate her attempt to honor Koizumi's memory) so from there she gets it into her head that it's everyone for themselves on the island. Trust no one. She says as much. And with the virus going around, it's moreso apparent to someone in her state of mine that the only way out is to kill somebody. This would account for how she got out of the motel--of her own volition. Mikan, on the other hand, has been desperately trying to keep all the invalids alive or in care all this time to the point of exhaustion. She's had, what, between two and four days to construct any sort of murder set up, but if most of that time was actually spent tending to her charges, then it becomes that much harder to buy that she was plotting anything or killed two people. Killing one person, on the other hand, as a spur of the moment affair, makes much more sense. If Saionji had been setting up some sort of fake suicide-- She makes it look like Ibuki kills herself and then sits back while everyone assumes such during the trial-- only to be killed, then someone must have discovered her after Ibuki died and decided to do something about it. Mikan's been resolutely watching over her patients, she got the fever at some point, and if she noticed Ibuki missing and looked inside the Music Club and saw Saionji setting all this poo poo up... SPECIFICALLY Saionji, her biggest, cruelest tormenter setting up her *now*dead*patient*... then that something was very drastic, indeed. ... This is pretty good theory (despite my own utterance not to look into motivations) but it all boils down to this: How was this poo poo set up? It's pretty clear that Ibuki was the original target for any killing; all the effort was put into setting up her 'suicide' whereas Saionji's not face down on the floor with a knife in her hands, nor is there any video of her attempting suicide. The plan was all along to set Ibuki up. This all boils down to the equipment and the set pieces. If the video equipment is idiot proof, then we need to look for Mikan to give herself away and/or clues to how Saionji set up the initial stuff, but if this poo poo requires someone like Souda to even operate, then we need to rethink how it could have gone down...
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Jan 29, 2014 18:39
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GeneralYeti posted:Actually, it is possible for a hanging to go wrong and the cause of death be strangulation. It doesn't happen often, but if the noose has too much rope the fall doesn't actually snap the neck and the person being hung is forced to choke to death. Pretty sure it has something to do with the knot on the noose too. If it's behind the neck, it prevents the clean whiplash snap of the neck and the person strangles. If it's to the side then it doesn't get in the way and that little chip of bone breaks into the spinal cord just fine. I don't remember where I learned this. History Channel?
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Jan 29, 2014 18:43
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Also, didn't they have to lower Ibuki's body down using the lights rigging? Given how suggestible Ibuki'd become, she could have been simply ordered to stand on an X, the killer slips the rope around her neck and then raises the lift the rope's tied to. Since she's being lifted up and not hung in the... Oh my God why am I putting it this way... traditional manner as she would have with jumping off the ladder, it means she'd have been strangled instead of killed from a neck break. This could implicate ANY of the three main suspects, but this is the only way Saionji could have strangled Ibuki. She's too small and weak to have physically assaulted her, and if Ibuki had jumped off the ladder, her neck would have been broken. It doesn't cement her as Ibuki's killer, but this is the most plausible way Saionji could be involved. If Souda/Sonia or Mikan killed both girls, they wouldn't have had to have done in Ibuki with a Rube-Goldberg device...though i suppose with Souda it's thematically appropriate to rig a machine to kill someone.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:23
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I would just like to take this opportunity to calmly remind everyone that it's "hanged". Ibuki was "hanged".
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Jan 29, 2014 20:52
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Now you're just putting words in our collective mouths. 
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Jan 29, 2014 21:01
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Fedule posted:I would just like to take this opportunity to calmly remind everyone that it's "hanged". Ibuki was "hanged". As in, the original Japanese specifically implies 'hanging' and not a generic 'strangulation'?
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Jan 29, 2014 21:04
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LukanFox posted:As in, the original Japanese specifically implies 'hanging' and not a generic 'strangulation'? As in the word is not "hung".
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Jan 29, 2014 21:05
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kidcoelacanth posted:As in the word is not "hung". "They says youse was hung." "And theys was right!  "Is there any possibility that there's two separate killers here? Last time it was A killing B, then C killing A. I'm not sure how the setup would support that, but can we rule it out?
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Jan 29, 2014 21:18
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C. Everett Koop posted:"They says youse was hung." "And theys was right! I'm using the same metric I use whenever somebody speculates that plot-element X from DR1 is going to come into play again: this is unlikely, because they did that last time. I'm leaning toward a good old-fashioned double murder, because we didn't see one in the last game.
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Jan 29, 2014 21:28
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Fedule posted:I would just like to take this opportunity to calmly remind everyone that it's "hanged". Ibuki was "hanged". Not if she was dead before she was hung!
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Jan 29, 2014 21:43
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Fedule posted:I would just like to take this opportunity to calmly remind everyone that it's "hanged". Ibuki was "hanged". Thank you, I don't have to resist the temptation anymore.
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Jan 29, 2014 22:01
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Fedule posted:I would just like to take this opportunity to calmly remind everyone that it's "hanged". Ibuki was "hanged".  Hear ye, hear ye It is a probatable offense to follow this advice. Use "hung" in all instances. Thank you.
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Jan 29, 2014 22:18
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Slowbeef posted:
Wow, don't get so hanged up on the minor details. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 29, 2014 22:30
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TKMobile posted:If Saionji was in fact Ibuki's killer, then it's consistent, albeit kind of horrible for her character development. Her only friend gets killed on the arguably accidental order of the yakuza kid, everyone gives him some level of sympathy thereafter and at best pity Saionji herself (and/or don't appreciate her attempt to honor Koizumi's memory) so from there she gets it into her head that it's everyone for themselves on the island. Trust no one. She says as much. And with the virus going around, it's moreso apparent to someone in her state of mine that the only way out is to kill somebody. This would account for how she got out of the motel--of her own volition. You know what I realized fits nicely with this? Saionji's dress. Saionji dressed in the hospital robe, filmed the video, did the deed. Mikan walks in on the just-completed murder, flips, slits Saionji's throat, flips again, and dresses her hastily, tying the obi wrong. It's even possible that Saionji killed Ibuki, then hid when Hinata discovered the body. When Hinata ran out, Mikan may have run in and killed Saionji (maybe in a struggle, maybe in some sort of rage out over YOU KILLED MY PATIENT)
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Jan 29, 2014 22:33
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Slowbeef posted:
Come now slowbeef, you're really gonna probate for something as miniscule as that? That's soudapressing.
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Jan 29, 2014 22:45
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Bean posted:You know what I realized fits nicely with this? Saionji's dress. Saionji dressed in the hospital robe, filmed the video, did the deed. Mikan walks in on the just-completed murder, flips, slits Saionji's throat, flips again, and dresses her hastily, tying the obi wrong. That last part is a *little* tricky since in the time it took to get from the Music club to the motel--and back-- Mikan would have had to kill Saionji, change the dead girl's outfit, tie her up, and then book back to the hospital without being seen. This idea is akin to how many people were convinced Pekoyama killed Togami in the first case by thinking she was able to move back and forth in a too limited time window to do the deed. Only here, while Mikan has a few minutes over a few seconds, she is much less physically coordinated person, and I don't think she can be counted on to think this fast and act even faster. If Mikan is the guilty party though this scenario, it is most likely that she came across Saionji killing Ibuki (which accounts for how Saionji was able to get out of her motel to be killed), flipped, murdered, and then spent the wee hours of the morning setting things up opposed to coming up with all of this on the fly.
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Jan 29, 2014 22:52
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Slowbeef posted:
I thought it was "hanged" when talking about a real hanging and "hung" when using "hung up on" because saying "she was hung" makes it sound as if she had a huge fat dick. 
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Jan 30, 2014 00:21
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Hungtalk. http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/hanged.html quote:Originally these words were pretty much interchangeable, but “hanged” eventually came to be used pretty exclusively to mean “executed by hanging.” Does nervousness about the existence of an indelicate adjectival form of the word prompt people to avoid the correct word in such sentences as “Lady Wrothley saw to it that her ancestors’ portraits were properly hung”? Nevertheless, “hung” is correct except when capital punishment is being imposed or someone commits suicide. No mention on this webpage of fat dicks. Disappointing. So someone (maybe Ibuki) hung the noose and then she got hanged.
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Jan 30, 2014 00:52
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TINA TURNER posted:I thought it was "hanged" when talking about a real hanging and "hung" when using "hung up on" because saying "she was hung" makes it sound as if she had a huge fat dick. Yeah this is really confusing slowbeef why have you done this to us?
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Jan 30, 2014 00:55
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TINA TURNER posted:I thought it was "hanged" when talking about a real hanging and "hung" when using "hung up on" because saying "she was hung" makes it sound as if she had a huge fat dick. Yeah, I was under the impression that was the reason for Fedule's specification of "hanged".
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Jan 30, 2014 01:20
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Hung is appropriate because Ibuki wasn't executed and didn't commit suicide. Her body was hung up after she was already dead, I think, considering the cause of death was strangulation. hahaha, it's funny to think this grammar dispute isn't even in the top ten of stupidest derails in the history of this thread. 
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Jan 30, 2014 01:38
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Use hung or you get probated. Tomorrow "hanged" will be correct. "Choked by a rope" is always safe. It's simple really.
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Jan 30, 2014 01:51
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Wait, did Ibuki die from trying to eat the rope?
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Jan 30, 2014 03:18
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Wait, did Ibuki die from trying to eat the rope? No, that would be "choked on a rope."
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Jan 30, 2014 03:19
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W.T. Fits posted:No, that would be "choked on a rope." 'Cause the beats and the lines are so dope.
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Jan 30, 2014 03:35
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Slowbeef posted:
your dedication to anime dicks is admirable slow beef.
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Jan 30, 2014 03:50
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If Ibuki was choked by a rope, why have an investigation at all? Let's just kill the drat rope and be done with it.
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Jan 30, 2014 05:08
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Oliver Crowley posted:If Ibuki was choked by a rope, why have an investigation at all? Let's just kill the drat rope and be done with it. Didn't Monobear set the precedent for an individual being considered a tool for someone else during the Peko trial? Maybe the rope was just a tool doing its master's biding. Or binding. 
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Jan 30, 2014 05:16
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I'm gonna guess and say Tsumiki did it. There.
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Jan 30, 2014 05:18
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TKMobile posted:Also, didn't they have to lower Ibuki's body down using the lights rigging? For other theories, how easy/hard is it to operate the video equipment? Because if its mildly difficult I could see the group outside the hospital just leaving it to Souda. But if its so easy a baby could do it then that just sort of puts a damper on the Souda theory.
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Jan 30, 2014 05:36
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Wait, did Ibuki die from trying to eat the rope? Thing is, this could probably have happened, what with that obedience fever she had.
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Jan 30, 2014 05:39
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Volt Catfish posted:Come now slowbeef, you're really gonna probate for something as miniscule as that? That's soudapressing. Hey don't spoil his execution like that.
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Jan 30, 2014 08:20
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TKMobile posted:Mikan, on the other hand, has been desperately trying to keep all the invalids alive or in care all this time to the point of exhaustion. She's had, what, between two and four days to construct any sort of murder set up, but if most of that time was actually spent tending to her charges, then it becomes that much harder to buy that she was plotting anything or killed two people. Has she really, though? After she said two lines which first drew my suspicion towards her (dissuading Hinata from checking in on Ibuki, and then later "I'm gonna rest; why don't you go into the lobby?"--where coincidentally a video transmission will be ready to start playing! Not a set-up at all!), I started thinking she might also have the best opportunity for killing here. We only have her word that Nagito was in danger of dying. From then on, she's always seen watching tirelessly over him. I've been wondering if his condition really was as dire as she said. Maybe she was contemplating murder since before that, and saw the role of a sole someone's caretaker to be a means of avoiding suspicion. It gives her the illusion of an alibi when she might not really have one; Hinata and Kuzuryuu won't be suspecting her because they'll be assuming she was too busy looking over Nagito as constantly as she had before they left. Her seeming exhausted serves to make that more believable, but she could be affecting that. Mikan's actually only been focusing on one patient, not watching over them all equally. She said so herself in this last update, and we saw it for ourselves when Hinata caught Ibuki wandering off due to lack of supervision. If Mikan was seen to be tending to all her charges, then she would quickly be asked how someone could've gotten in or how Ibuki could've gotten out without Mikan detecting it, and that'd make some suspicion fall on her. Instead, everyone will now be thinking she just didn't notice anyone entering or exiting because of her exhaustion while staying at Nagito's bedside, and she'll avoid being questioned. Come to think of it, it doesn't seem likely to me that a SHSL Nurse would be ignoring her other patients even if someone was in danger. I'd think someone with her nursing skill could definitely find a way to make sure the others get some care. It's not like leaving Nagito for a moment would cause his death if she cycled her time between him and the other two. I don't know if I like the idea of Mikan stumbling upon Saionji murdering Ibuki. I'd think Mikan would've gone to Hinata for back-up instead of search for Ibuki in the middle of the night all alone. She'd have either had to come prepared with a weapon in case of encountering a murderer, or just so happen to find something capable of slitting Saionji's throat lying nearby in the club--the last seems too convenient, the former seems like something she wouldn't do. None of these kids ever seem to think of being prepared for possibly coming across a killer. I feel like I do agree with you that Ibuki seems the most likely to have been the original target given the planning of the video, yet Saionji's death seems almost equally well-thought out if there's truth to the thread hivemind's prevailing idea that her body was hidden on the pillar. And compared to Ibuki's corpse which still has color in it, Saionji's has a pallor tinging on blue to my eye, which is making me wonder if she was actually killed first. I'm not going to put much stock into that observation unless and until the characters remark on it, though. Maybe the killer wanted to reveal Saionji's body last, hoping people would think it really occurred while Hinata was on his way to alert others about the first body, so as to make it appear like it happened at a time when the true perpetrator couldn't possibly have done it. It could also serve as a possible frame on Hinata; the killer might be hoping the others start to suspect he's lying about only discovering one body on his own, in order to cover up his own involvement. Hell, maybe the killer's just hoping the other kids' brains give out while trying to figure this one. 
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Jan 30, 2014 08:21
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At this point I actually found something I liked about Naegi more then Hinata. He managed to surprise Kirigiri a few times. I don't think we've seen so far if Chiaki has a surprised sprite or not.muike posted:your dedication to anime dicks is admirable slow beef. Maybe Retsublitz took more of a toll on him then we first thought.
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Jan 30, 2014 08:40
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Psychodrama posted:Has she really, though? Actually... Hinata did feel Nagito's forehead, which was burning up, and he loving passed out immediately after Monobear explained Despair fever. He was the only one who had to be carried to the hospital. Kuzuryuu and Hinata were there at the hospital all day with Mikan doing her thing to the point where she tried to nap on top of Hinata. That night, Kuzuryuu was the one who discovered Nagito was barely breathing, not Mikan. Nagito had the lying fever; if he had any energy to do so, he would have lied about his condition, and did before going into a fever coma. Now, admittedly, how long he was actually under the effects of this is up for debate, but we can assume he was hosed up pretty bad for awhile, at least, and that Mikan honestly did need to devote most of her attention to administering to him. In fact, she was so busy with that, during the second day of the hospital, she didn't even notice Hinata walking into the room until he spoke directly with her and it freaked her out. Then came the third day, and well, we all know what happened then. Something else I picked up in back checking all this poo poo: Souda found two monitor/camera deals to use. He found them, and just swapped cameras when placing them, but he also had to boost the range of these devices, which light up blue when someone's on the other end. This means, unless we find more evidence that more devices/tech stuff was used in this murder, that the video Hinata saw on the third morning wasn't a recording. It was a live feed. ...Dammit. I'm not sure how much this puts us back because of you mentioning how Saionji looks like she's been dead for awhile. Mikan can be reasonably placed for two of the three days, yet there's so much going on that needs setting up so that she couldn't have done it all in one night because of the two deaths involved. I'm still going with the idea that this is all a Souda scheme that started to fall apart, OR Mikan walked in on someone else's killing and took matters into her own hands.
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Jan 30, 2014 17:04
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It's interesting that that's another two members of the Twilight Syndrome cast dead. If Mikan didn't do it, she'd better be careful next chapter, she's now the only one left alive out of the group who helped cover up Kuzuryuu's sister's murder. Which would suggest Kuzuryuu (though I don't see how or when he could have done it) or indeed Sonia after all her ramblings about serial killers and "justice" for revenge, or Mikan as revenge for Saionji and Ibuki pressuring her into keeping quiet. I'd be surprised if the motive is the same as the previous chapter, but it's the first thing that struck me about the choice of victims.
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Jan 30, 2014 21:11
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TKMobile posted:Actually... Hinata did feel Nagito's forehead, which was burning up, and he loving passed out immediately after Monobear explained Despair fever. He was the only one who had to be carried to the hospital. Kuzuryuu and Hinata were there at the hospital all day with Mikan doing her thing to the point where she tried to nap on top of Hinata. That night, Kuzuryuu was the one who discovered Nagito was barely breathing, not Mikan. Nagito had the lying fever; if he had any energy to do so, he would have lied about his condition, and did before going into a fever coma. Now, admittedly, how long he was actually under the effects of this is up for debate, but we can assume he was hosed up pretty bad for awhile, at least, and that Mikan honestly did need to devote most of her attention to administering to him. In fact, she was so busy with that, during the second day of the hospital, she didn't even notice Hinata walking into the room until he spoke directly with her and it freaked her out. Oh yeah, I wasn't suggesting he didn't have a fever in the first place. That did occur to me as a possibility a few updates ago, but then I went back and saw that Hinata had tested Nagito's forehead along with all the others, just as you're saying here. My thoughts after that weren't that he was feigning fever at all, but rather that Mikan might've been pretending that his condition was worse than it really was. Point made about Kuzuryuu being the one to notice it looked like Nagito wasn't breathing; I'd forgotten that. So it wasn't something she was lying about...but it's possible as time went on, she exaggerated how badly he was still doing, to use that as a pretense; if she was forming plans, she'd want to make it appear impossible for her to have carried them out. It might be worth noting that Mikan says the next day that she thinks he might getting worse and we have only her word for that. True, whenever the light turned blue the past two times, it was always when a live call was waiting, but maybe if recordings can be sent, it acts just the same way? If it definitely was recorded live, well...whatever the case, I think it wasn't Ibuki in the video. There'd be no need for the tote bag then. I'm still perplexed by perspective as the figure in the first picture immediately brought Saionji to mind, and others pointed out the way her obi looks now might hint she'd been in the robe prior. But that poses more problems: if my observation about the corpses has merit, it couldn't have been a live feed because Saionji definitely doesn't look to have been killed recently enough for her to have been the one in the video. Not to mention, in the second picture, the robed figure seems like they'd obviously be too tall to be Saionji if standing straight. So if one believes the video was live and also thinks Mikan was the mind behind the video, the idea that fits in most with that is the makeshift room theory--supported by the presence of two stepladders--with her playacting as Ibuki. Again, that poses a problem: there's only one tote bag, and in this scenario there'd need to be two. Of course, at this point it's possible Souda could be the culprit, but with the cameras involved, I feel like that'd lead back to him too strongly for him to be comfortable coming up with this plan. Psychodrama fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jan 30, 2014 |
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Jan 30, 2014 21:13
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Psychodrama posted:Of course, at this point it's possible Souda could be the culprit, but with the cameras involved, I feel like that'd lead back to him too strongly for him to be comfortable coming up with this plan. I feel the same way about suspecting Mikan, considering who the victims were. After the last case, when 2 of the three surviving stars out of that arcade game are murdered, you would naturally suspect the third (who was also the protagonist of that game, for what it's worth). Even without any of the circumstantial evidence, Mikan would be the first suspect just because of who died and their history. Particularly since Saionji constantly tormented her. I should also point out just for the record: We don't actually know when Monobear ended the Despair Fever. It's possible it ended overnight and Akane just didn't notice since she was asleep. There's been alot of people saying 'Only Mikan could have set up that video for Hinata since she's the only one who saw him that morning'. But that's not really true, is it? Nagito (you know, the crazy guy who keeps saying he'd love to assist with a murder, even if he's the intended victim) saw him too. When Hinata met him that morning he could have simply been acting like he was still under the fever's influence in order to deflect suspicion. Mikan did say his condition turned around overnight. Maybe more than she thought. After she left to get Hinata, Nagito might have slipped out to carry out (or assist with) some plan. I kind of find myself wondering if Saionji wasn't conspiring with him, but then he turned on her. More despair to overcome that way, or some poo poo.
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Jan 30, 2014 23:23
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If it was a live feed, someone needed to have started the call and turned it off. If you assume that was Ibuki climbing the ladder in the video, then you only need one killer. I'm certain that the video was pre-recorded and featured the killer. There was no sign of the hair coming from out of the bag on the feed. The actual corpse did have hair coming out. Someone sent the signal of an incoming feed between Hinata and Mikan arriving at the hospital and Hinata going to the hospital lobby. Hinata went downstairs immediately after Mikan left the room. If the killer was Mikan, I do not believe she had time to run all the way to the club to trigger the video before Hinata reached the lobby to see it. If Mikan had set up a set in the hospital rest area, she would also have had to somehow tie in a third camera/monitor to the system, which I think would require Souda to assist.
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Jan 31, 2014 00:33
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:If it was a live feed, someone needed to have started the call and turned it off. Actually, I don't think the feed was turned off. just made too dark by a candle blowing out or something like that.. And the person on camera was not on screen at the start of the call.
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Jan 31, 2014 02:17
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