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quote:To: markomalley Forgot "pine box."
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Jan 29, 2014 19:15
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quiggy stardust posted:One of my friends was making this argument last night, the gist being that if everybody is making at least $10 then the price of everything will increase to compensate and so the actual value of the money will not change (ie $10 now buys what $7 used to). My gut tells me that's not true since it's only the bottom portion of earners who will see a change and everyone else will remain constant but I'm not well-enough versed in economics to intelligently argue the point. There's also the Econ 101 issue of prices being set to maximize profits, of which "cost" is a pretty small element. If the market will bear $4 cheeseburgers and that price maximizes the profit the McDonalds owner makes, then that's the price. There's really very little relationship between cost and price, except that setting your price below your cost will result in big problems, and probably sooner rather than later.
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Jan 29, 2014 19:20
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I always like the argument that minimum wage increases will create huge swathes of firings since as we all know large companies keep people employed out of sheer benevolence and certainly wouldn't have already cut as many corners there as profits would allow.
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Jan 29, 2014 19:29
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Radish posted:I always like the argument that minimum wage increases will create huge swathes of firings since as we all know large companies keep people employed out of sheer benevolence and certainly wouldn't have already cut as many corners there as profits would allow.
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Jan 29, 2014 19:36
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The thing is that conservatives always frame the debate, and they leave out an important part: there are supposed to be social programs in place so that, as the economy adjusts to changes like the minimum wage increasing, people aren't left destitute and hopeless if they're unfortunate to be one of those who lose their job. UI, SNAP, TANF, all prop the economy up and buffer it against disruption. As if I needed to tell any of you that. But that's the point, conservatives have ripped social programs out of being a part of the economy and made it a moral/social issue by framing the debate that way. The entire idea of a free market where textbook ideas actually work out in an exact way seems to me to be an illusion, anyway. What would happen if we raised the minimum wage to $20/hr? No one knows, really. Obviously people can build models and make predictions, but the economy is so complex that there are an incredible number of unforeseen consequences, both good or bad, that might arise.
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Jan 29, 2014 19:43
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The idea is that once you rip out the social safety nets the workers have no recourse but to accept any deal their employer deems fit to give them and the option is to take it or starve in the streets. Every Republican lawmaker understands that is the goal although they use folksy language to sell it to people that believe in the just world of hard work reaping wealth.
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Jan 29, 2014 19:51
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No you see a few bad apples will abuse social safety nets. We can't have a bunch of
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Jan 29, 2014 20:06
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A conservative politician threatened a reporter recently. Let's see that freep thinks. quote:The next year will be highlighted, the entire year, by the media and the Obama "justice" team going after Republicans...any small problem will be AMPLIFIED. quote:actually, it was paved for hrclinton w/ 0bamata,ing vp so as to secure 8 possibly 16 yrs of control. but my guess is moochelle didn’t want to wait quote:That politicians response was ridiculous. He is an example of a Republican that doesn’t represent my values. quote:While I agree Grimm’s response was not ideal, the little pecker reporter deserved it. Screw the cry baby twerp reporter. If he can’t stand the heat then don’t badger your interviewees. quote:Grimm said he was on a tight schedule and had previously told NY1 that he was only going to discuss the speech. quote:.....and you all are proving my point.....buying into the destruction of the Republican brand—NOT to the benefit of a more conservative alternative, but to the party of Hitlery. quote:I fail to see how expecting a sense of professionalism in elected representatives is buying into the Hitlery brand. By definition, a conservative would not have behaved the way Grimm did. I’ll take it further, a conservative wouldn’t have left himself open for the investigation to begin with so the question wouldn’t even have come up. quote:That reporter was quite a smart rear end, and I just can't stand people acting too smart by half, then playing innocent...
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Jan 29, 2014 20:08
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Did they even play the actual question the reporter asked? I saw the aftermath a few dozen times today, but nothing to show what threw Grimm into agro-mode. Seeing FReep side with Grimm is hilarious. "You should definitely threaten people for asking you a question!" edit: ok something about his campaign funding corruption case no big deal right. robotsinmyhead fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jan 29, 2014 |
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Jan 29, 2014 20:21
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quiggy stardust posted:So in other words if I'm understanding this right the labor costs go up proportionally to the minimum wage but the materials cost doesn't change, meaning the price of a burger would go up some but not as much as minimum wage. That makes sense to me, thanks Basically, yes. Material costs will go up wherever there is min-wage labor attached to it, but not proportionally. Paying a farm worker 30% more an hour doesn't make a combine cost 30% more. You also get the fun side affect that these people, living pay-check to pay-check now will tend to spend more on the services that they are employed in. Basically if a stocker at walmart makes $10 or $15 an hour instead of $7.25 you will tend to have more money to spend each week/month because your rent should stay roughly the same. This gives them (and everyone else at min-wage) more disposable income to spend on cheeseburgers and walmart poo poo. So profits might actually go up. You can also bring up how fast food places are basically subsidized by the government because a portion of their employees are actually on welfare. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-13/how-mcdonald-s-and-wal-mart-became-welfare-queens.html quote:According to one study, American fast food workers receive more than $7 billion dollars in public assistance. As it turns out, McDonald's has a “McResource” line that helps employees and their families enroll in various state and local assistance programs. They have a loving staffed phone-line to help sign up their employees for public assistance. quote:According to Florida Congressman Alan Grayson, in many states, Wal-Mart employees are the largest group of Medicaid recipients. They are also the single biggest group of food stamp recipients. Wal-mart’s "associates" are paid so little, according to Grayson, that they receive $1,000 on average in public assistance. Walmart is worse. Basically the more money you give to the lower class the more economic activity is generated because they don't have the ability to hoard money like the upper class. But..."MY BIG MAC COSTS MORE!!!" Bring this poo poo up next time to talk to your friend. e: Also ask him if there are Walmarts/McDondals in Washington state. (hint, there are and their min wage is $9.32) If it was so detrimental to business the great job creators would have pulled out of there by now and it would be a wasteland of failed businesses. Plinkey fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jan 29, 2014 |
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Jan 29, 2014 20:24
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If McDonald's could sell a burger for ~$10 and make increased profit, they'd already be doing that, min wage increase or no min wage increase. A lot of these economics geniuses never factor in that a price increase leads to reduced demand.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:46
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Obama's Pot Dealer Beaten to Death With Hammer By Gay Loverquote:President Obama’s high school pot dealer who he thanked in his yearbook for the 'good times' was beaten to death by his lover after a series of fights over flatulence and drugs, MailOnline can reveal today. My God. quote:I prefer not to know if any of them, um, inhaled. quote:Two guesses about how Obama paid for his drugs.... quote:Somebody else gone too soon. Bruno Mars’ mom from Hawaii died suddenly in 2013. I wonder if Bruno Mars’ mom knew stuff about dear leader, his grandmother, his mom or Frank Marshall Davis, et al. Brb going to law school. quote:All of Obama’s friends and associates were homosexual or bisexual, drug users and lived parasitic, unproductive lives. quote:Poor pResident 0'Buttplug, He's losing all his fmr. buddies to quote:Hey, obozo...they judge you by the friends you keep. Notice the scum of the earth types that obozo associates himself with? Just one big cesspool of crime, corruption, evil and depravity. And obozo, floating to the top, for sunlight and all the world to see. quote:Another of Obama’s former lovers falls into a shallow grave. Osmoslem's new I think? quote:You not only described omoslem’s friends, you perfectly described the entire progressive bunch in DC! Wow. quote:The left says that murders committed in homosexual relationships are just like murders committed in heterosexual relationships. But murders in homosexual relationships often have a more extreme brutality. I’m not saying there can’t be brutal murders between heterosexuals but there is a considerably better chance of “overkill” in homosexual relationships. Two lesbians gay-married in Massachusetts were covering the Democratic National Convention for the Huffington Post in 2004. One of the women said she had fallen in love with someone else and wanted a divorce. Her partner murdered her by stabbing her more than 200 times with a screwdriver. Something about a pot-induced rage. Directed towards a bag of Taco Bell. quote:Death List? No he just drunk drove like a good kid. quote:You know that if Bush had a “choom gang” that the media would be interviewing each one of them and digging into their past.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:53
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You'd think these guys would be more pissed that companies were abusing welfare systems by underpaying their employees and passing that cost onto the taxpayer. Of course the reality is they think that the employees are the parasites and should somehow get better jobs ignoring the fact that if that was even possible McDonalds would just hire more people and keep the scam going.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:53
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I do love it when Freep is split on how to respond to something. "That reporter was a liberal jerk and Grimm was right to show spine and stand up to him!" "No, that makes him as bad as a Democrat!"
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Jan 29, 2014 21:09
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Reputable news source, that Mail Online. Who am I kidding you could write "Obama is a stinky fart head, study finds" on a piece of paper and Freep would eat it up.
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Jan 29, 2014 21:19
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Radish posted:You'd think these guys would be more pissed that companies were abusing welfare systems by underpaying their employees and passing that cost onto the taxpayer. Of course the reality is they think that the employees are the parasites and should somehow get better jobs ignoring the fact that if that was even possible McDonalds would just hire more people and keep the scam going. There's a Freep thread for that! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3108852/posts If you can't guess the basic theme is 'go work somewhere else' or 'who cares, they'd do the same without benefits, I say take them away' or 'well yeah, that's the point of a company' and a lot of 'back in my day'. quote:To: steelhead_trout quote:To: steelhead_trout quote:To: steelhead_trout Yeah, Freep never attacks specific people. quote:To: steelhead_trout what? quote:To: redgolum Most of the rest is people just dog piling this guy for posting and hoping he gets banned. He also got banned. quote:To: steelhead_trout; Lazamataz; humblegunner; darkwing104; 50mm; Arrowhead1952; LUV W; Eaker; ...
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Jan 29, 2014 22:12
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Heheh. That death happened in 1986, and Freepers think it just happened.
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Jan 29, 2014 22:13
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Imagine if Obama had a scandal going on and he snapped even mildly at a reporter asking about it. Imagine how Freep would respond. Compare their responses to this Grimm thing to that.
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Jan 29, 2014 23:13
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You know, the idea that the US govenment is instituting a policy of increased inflation to reduce the debt (while also trying to increase minimum wage so the poor don't get screwed over by it) sounds not too unbelievable.
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Jan 30, 2014 00:27
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Emron posted:Imagine if Obama had a scandal going on and he snapped even mildly at a reporter asking about it. Imagine how Freep would respond. Compare their responses to this Grimm thing to that. 
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Jan 30, 2014 00:33
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kik2dagroin posted:They'd post endlessly about how tyrannical he behaved and call for his execution. So no change, really No, we'd see a whole lot more dog whistle racism than is normal for even Freep.
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Jan 30, 2014 00:51
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Elim Garak posted:No, we'd see a whole lot more dog whistle racism than is normal for even Freep. I'm not sure what Freep does is plausibly deniable-enough for that euphemism. What they do isn't so must dog whistle as air raid siren.
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Jan 30, 2014 01:29
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ArchangeI posted:You know, the idea that the US govenment is instituting a policy of increased inflation to reduce the debt (while also trying to increase minimum wage so the poor don't get screwed over by it) sounds not too unbelievable. It's not clear that increased inflation would reduce the debt, actually. Probably the opposite. http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/10/news/economy/inflation_debt/index.htm
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Jan 30, 2014 01:35
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ArchangeI posted:You know, the idea that the US govenment is instituting a policy of increased inflation to reduce the debt (while also trying to increase minimum wage so the poor don't get screwed over by it) sounds not too unbelievable. The QE program was about the closest they could come to doing just that without pissing off the wrong people. Right now banks have an absolute shitload of money loaned out at historically unheard-of rates (mortgages below 4%, etc.) and increased inflation would lock in a lot of those loans at a net loss for them. If the Fed can prevent that from happening, they will. From what I've heard, raising the minimum wage (and thus aggregate demand) shouldn't even impact inflation in any significant way as long as we have so much unused industrial capacity and so many unemployed workers.
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Jan 30, 2014 01:36
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Every God drat loving time the minimum wage needs to be increased, the same loving blowhards scream and shout that prices will skyrocket. EVERY loving TIME. And EVERY loving TIME IT ENDS UP NOT HAPPENING. How can you trot out the same talking point over and over and over again when it has been demonstrably NOT loving TRUE OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN?
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Jan 30, 2014 02:02
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ratbert90 posted:Every God drat loving time the minimum wage needs to be increased, the same loving blowhards scream and shout that prices will skyrocket.
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Jan 30, 2014 02:04
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I don't know a lot about minimum wage jobs, but aren't they supposed transitory? Are there really so many people who depend on them as a sole source of income for more than 5 years? Please educate me on this, I know I'm missing something obvious. 
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Jan 30, 2014 02:18
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amuayse posted:I don't know a lot about minimum wage jobs, but aren't they supposed transitory? Are there really so many people who depend on them as a sole source of income for more than 5 years? Please educate me on this, I know I'm missing something obvious.
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Jan 30, 2014 02:19
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:so GIVING some more money to some means less for the rest of us, i.e., earnings redistribution, i.e., Marxism. This is literally their worldview with everything from money to equal rights. Holy poo poo.
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Jan 30, 2014 02:29
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The Mcdonalds CEO may have to NOT give up anything at all? Not even a little bit? He may have to increase the price of hamburgers by less than 2%? MARXISM!!!!
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Jan 30, 2014 02:47
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Vote now & make ESPN liberals SQUAWK! Vote for Erika Brown to hold the US flag at Sochi (vanity)quote:To: Kolath I wonder if they know that she lives in Canada.
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Jan 30, 2014 02:52
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Plinkey posted:Vote now & make ESPN liberals SQUAWK! Vote for Erika Brown to hold the US flag at Sochi (vanity) I looked her up and she has degrees in political science and women's studies. I'd have to imagine that wouldn't play well with Freepers so I honestly have no idea what's going on with this unless she's said something inflammatory recently that isn't showing up on a Google search.
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Jan 30, 2014 03:01
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I really have no idea it seems random, I'll chalk it up to drunk freeping. e: Here's What Happened When Neanderthals And Ancient Humans Hooked Up 80,000 Years Ago  quote:To: blam Plinkey fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Jan 30, 2014 |
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Jan 30, 2014 03:16
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Plinkey posted:Vote now & make ESPN liberals SQUAWK! Vote for Erika Brown to hold the US flag at Sochi (vanity) I suspect it is so that some filthy homo doesn't get to do it.
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Jan 30, 2014 03:25
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Do you think ancient cro-magnon used painted pictorials to go on poorly thought rants about the big nosed ferals?
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Jan 30, 2014 03:28
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amuayse posted:I don't know a lot about minimum wage jobs, but aren't they supposed transitory? Are there really so many people who depend on them as a sole source of income for more than 5 years? Please educate me on this, I know I'm missing something obvious. Straight from the Bureau of Labor Statistics: It's true that a bit less than half of minimum wage workers are under 25, but that means that more than half are older than 25. There are a lot of places out there where just about the only job for people without college degrees are in retail, fast food, and other lovely jobs like that. There's nothing else for them. I work in staffing and you wouldn't believe how many resumes I see with 10, 15, 20 years of experience working at various retail, fast food, or low level call center positions. There's no upward mobility to these jobs. And raising the minimum wage to the level some are proposing - 10/hour - would affect a huge number of people. Again, at my staffing job, none of the jobs we work pay minimum wage. But a hell of a lot of them pay less than 10/hour, so raising the minimum wage would hugely benefit those people. In some ideal world yes minimum wage would be for high school and college kids working over the summer, but that is laughably far from the reality of America's economy.
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Jan 30, 2014 03:34
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Mind Loving Owl posted:Do you think ancient cro-magnon used painted pictorials to go on poorly thought rants about the big nosed ferals? Lemme tell you about this feral rear end in a top hat calling himself Enkidu I ran into the other day...
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Jan 30, 2014 03:36
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Lesbians?! On television?! NBC, Ellen Degeneres team for lesbian family comedy quote:To: bkopto quote:To: bkopto quote:To: bkopto quote:To: bkopto ‘Taylor Has Two Moms’: Disney Channel Introduces Its First Lesbian Couple on a Kids’ Show quote:To: GIdget2004 quote:To: GIdget2004 quote:To: Travis McGee quote:To: GIdget2004 quote:To: struggle Also, in both of these threads, they keep bringing up JC Penney. They're still under the delusion that JC Penney's financial troubles are due solely to them hiring on Ellen Degeneres as a spokesperson, and True Americans using the invisible hand of the free market to punish them for hiring such a horrid sodomite. In reality, it's because JC Penney switched to horrible marketing strategies, such as "no more sales ever", a couple of years back. But since when have freepers even bothered with reality when it challenged their preconceived notions?
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Jan 30, 2014 04:06
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amuayse posted:I don't know a lot about minimum wage jobs, but aren't they supposed transitory? Are there really so many people who depend on them as a sole source of income for more than 5 years? Please educate me on this, I know I'm missing something obvious.
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Jan 30, 2014 04:13
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Crunch Buttsteak posted:
Those drat gays and their capitalist entrepreneurship! 
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Jan 30, 2014 04:17
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