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bobkatt013 posted:It is not like the Cardassians have a history of kidnapping and torturing Federation citizens. They would never capture a starship captain and brutally torture him. Picard was clearly operating outside of Federation rules and had gone rogue, abandoning his principles and effectively renouncing his citizenship. The Federation disavows any knowledge of his activities and firmly condemns his actions. We hope this does not have a meaningful impact on our delicate political situation. 
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Jan 31, 2014 00:48
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bobkatt013 posted:It is not like the Cardassians have a history of kidnapping and torturing Federation citizens. They would never capture a starship captain and brutally torture him. Yeah but at least that was on the sly after luring him in for a completely deniable black ops mission (contrived though such a scenario may be), and they held him completely in secret, IIRC. e;fb
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Jan 31, 2014 00:52
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How many kidnappings do you see?
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Jan 31, 2014 00:52
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armoredgorilla posted:Picard was clearly operating outside of Federation rules and had gone rogue, abandoning his principles and effectively renouncing his citizenship. The Federation disavows any knowledge of his activities and firmly condemns his actions. We hope this does not have a meaningful impact on our delicate political situation. Thanks a lot Dick Jones
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Jan 31, 2014 00:55
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armoredgorilla posted:Yeah, sorry for the spoiler, but this is from the next episode, where Sisko goes through, not Kira and Bashir. No prob. More crazy Sisko? Awesome. McSpanky posted:How many kidnappings do you see? The show trial was broadcast to all. Imagine it's a US citizen, captured by no Al Qaeda or some splinter terrorist group but an entire other country. Pick one, it doesn't matter. Then they broadcast the show trial on their public TV and promise to execute him for crimes they claim he's committed and they've tried by their standards. It's just ridiculous. Not just the US would pretty much immediately see this as an unacceptable affront to national and global security, the rest of us (Aus, UK, etc) would pretty much jump straight the gently caress up too and it'll be WW2 all over again. The whole UN would get in on the act. It happens fairly regularly, actually. That's how we avoid war now, we can rely on each other to stand together when our joint morals of human rights and decency are threatened. The United Nations are pact of decency. That's exactly what the Federation is.
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Jan 31, 2014 01:00
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In my "watching by airdate" bonanza, I have at last come to five straight episodes of Deep Space Nine with no Voyager interruptions. This will take me through the end of Season 6 and into Season 7. Time to meet the new Dax. 
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Jan 31, 2014 01:05
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Tony Montana posted:The show trial was broadcast to all.   It's a "how many lights do you see?" joke Bicyclops posted:Time to meet the new Dax. Meet the new Dax, same as the old Dax. *Odo arrives on scene* "What happened?" *some random security dude* "He got spaced out of an airlock, sir." *Odo shapeshifts into a form with sunglasses* "Sucks." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMPAH67f4o WampaLord fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Jan 31, 2014 |
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Jan 31, 2014 01:16
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Haha. poo poo.
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Jan 31, 2014 01:17
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WampaLord posted:
A montage of Odo delivering CSI/Law and Order-like one-liners would be better than most of season one of TNG. On another note, I'm two minutes in and already Keiko basically just called O'Brien fat out of nowhere and said she'd be controlling his diet. And Molly just fell into a cave vortex. Some things never change, suffering Miles. edit: Hm, an Irish teacher trying to get a feral child to understand language. I hope that by the end of this episode, Colm Meaney is shouting "Water! It has a name, Molly! W-A-T-E-R!" Bicyclops fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jan 31, 2014 |
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Jan 31, 2014 01:42
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poo poo, I'd love a season or two of Star Trek: The Wire set on DS9, with Odo investigating a criminal organisation like the Orion Syndicate on Deep Space Nine.
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Jan 31, 2014 01:45
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Tony Montana posted:The show trial was broadcast to all. Imagine it's a US citizen, captured by no Al Qaeda or some splinter terrorist group but an entire other country. Pick one, it doesn't matter. Then they broadcast the show trial on their public TV and promise to execute him for crimes they claim he's committed and they've tried by their standards. It's just ridiculous. Not just the US would pretty much immediately see this as an unacceptable affront to national and global security, the rest of us (Aus, UK, etc) would pretty much jump straight the gently caress up too and it'll be WW2 all over again. The whole UN would get in on the act. The Federation is about peace, while they doubtless made formal protests that weren't shown in addition to sending some ships to try and intimidate the Cardassians ultimately they would have been forced to sacrifice O'Brien because until Sisko and company proved otherwise the evidence said he was guilty. While we might like to think that our governments would move heaven and earth for individual citizens the truth is very different. Look at tourists accused of crimes in countries like Saudi Arabia, they're put through public trials, ambassadors may make pleas for clemency and occasionally cut deals to bring people home but they go through their court and penal systems, like O'Brien went through the Cardassian court system. The only issue was the arrest taking place outside of Cardassian space but Cardassian politicians and ambassadors could easily argue that they suspected a conspiracy within Starfleet, in fact they would make a point of doing so, and as such had no choice but to intervene themselves. I'm pretty sure we've seen the heroes of the various Star Trek series do similar things every now and again.
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Jan 31, 2014 02:35
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Man, the Worf B plot about him learning to be a dad was actually way more interesting that the whole Molly Keller plotline.
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Jan 31, 2014 02:45
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Just finished up rewatching the Emissary. I'd forgotten that Odo and Bashir do a tribute to Rene Auberjonois' scene as Father Mulcahey. Trapper John: [In O.R] Dish, let me have a long needle holder. Duke Forrest: [Mulcahy is performing the last rites on a casualty] Hey, Dago! Dago! Dago, I want you over here to hold this retraction. Now! Please, come on, now! Father John Patrick 'Dago Red' Mulcahy: Sorry, I'm coming. Hawkeye Pierce: Hi, Dago. Duke Forrest: I'm sorry, Dago, but this man is still alive and that other man is dead, and that's a fact. Can you hold it with two fingers, Dago? Hell... Where the hell... Do ya see it? (Bashir puts Odo's hand on a neck wound) BASHIR: Press there, hard. ODO: Look, Doctor, maybe I should find you someone BASHIR: Hold it there. Edit: Oh oh and they do a tribute to MASH again in the episode "Nor The Battle to the Strong". Edit 2: A Man Alone starts with Dax doing some mental exercise of holding a holosuite generated sphere in place with "clarity of thought". Bashir tries it out and fails miserably. Dax leaves with Sisko, Bashir goes "Computer. Reset." and it fades to the opener. I bet that son of a bitch nailed it the first try immediately afterwards and most of y'all know why. primaltrash fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jan 31, 2014 |
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Jan 31, 2014 02:47
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This is from a couple pages back, but I have to ask: what do all of you see in Ezri? I find that overall I agree with the hive mind here, except on this point. I hated her with a fiery passion, and the amount of time they spent on developing her in the last season really made it drag. I thought Jadzia was the better Dax by far, and genuinely enjoy episodes focused on her.
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Jan 31, 2014 04:49
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Jadzia has pretty much no character development in six years. Ezri has a ton of it in just one. Jadzia is dull, and often the only consistant things about her are "likes alien cultures" and "is sexually active".
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Jan 31, 2014 05:00
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Jadzia as a character is dull as dishwater and has no characteristics of her own. Anything that defines her is basically something that's been borrowed off of Curzon Dax (seriously, count how many times she, or Sisko brings up Curzon) like being a massive Klingonaboo, and even episodes that are centred around her end up being about someone else. At least Ezri had a character and an arc.
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Jan 31, 2014 05:53
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Vagabundo posted:poo poo, I'd love a season or two of Star Trek: The Wire set on DS9, with Odo investigating a criminal organisation like the Orion Syndicate on Deep Space Nine. Considering how Odo operates it'd be over in about two episodes when Odo plants a completely unauthorized bug (or just hangs around suspects as a bug) until he hears something incriminating and then throws them in the brig and smugly Harumphs at them all day. Edit: And you know, even if you don't like the conclusion to Tribunal it provides some interesting bits and pieces about Cardassia and I think that's one of the best parts about DS9. Even the worst episodes almost always have at least something to like.
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Jan 31, 2014 05:54
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Kibayasu posted:that's one of the best parts about DS9. Even the worst episodes almost always have at least something to like. THE MUSE THE MUSE
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Jan 31, 2014 05:58
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:THE MUSE Lwaxana & Odo.
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Jan 31, 2014 06:00
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:THE MUSE Sisko eating a punch from Bareil and simply looking annoyed by it.
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Jan 31, 2014 06:03
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I'd go for Profit and Lace. The Ferengi episodes usually work well as farces, but that one is just plain embarrassing.
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Jan 31, 2014 06:17
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On the other hand, the actual message behind that episode is a good one that needs to be repeated.
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Jan 31, 2014 06:21
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Apollodorus posted:On the other hand, the actual message behind that episode is a good one that needs to be repeated. Being a woman means being more emotional, ditzy, and vain? Attempted rape is HILARIOUS? Employees want to be sexually harassed? Oh, no wait, I remember the message - If the Ferengi homeworld was destroyed, nobody would care, nor should they. You're right, that is a good message!
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Jan 31, 2014 06:31
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I think the actual message is, women's rights in the workplace are important, and it is more important to treat women like actual people than to cling to "traditional values" because many of those are actually p. lovely in real life. Like I said, the message BEHIND the episode, not the message IN the episode.
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Jan 31, 2014 06:50
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Tyson Tomko posted:Back on the Season 8 books again for a second. Damnit damnit those things look and sound drat fun and cool. One of MANY examples was I had no idea they brought back Macet (guy that was played by same actor as Dukat in TNG episode) complete with facial hair and all. Tony Montana posted:The show trial was broadcast to all. Imagine it's a US citizen, captured by no Al Qaeda or some splinter terrorist group but an entire other country. Pick one, it doesn't matter. Then they broadcast the show trial on their public TV and promise to execute him for crimes they claim he's committed and they've tried by their standards. It's just ridiculous. Not just the US would pretty much immediately see this as an unacceptable affront to national and global security, the rest of us (Aus, UK, etc) would pretty much jump straight the gently caress up too and it'll be WW2 all over again. The whole UN would get in on the act.
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Jan 31, 2014 09:04
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Tony Montana posted:That was just a stupid episode. The Cardis were so cartoon evil and ridiculous it's one of those moments where I feel shameful to be watching Trek. There was no communication from the Federation at all, at any point, while poo poo was going down with Miles. It wasn't happening behind the scenes, it was an open trial and broadcast to all of Cardassia, the Federation knew all about it (as did the Federation citizens) and it sent a clear message that Cardassia had no respect for the Fed and would kidnap, torture and execute it's citizens and allies as it saw fit. While I agree with you that in hindsight it is stupid, I didn't see it at the time. Rather, what I thought was interesting was how the Cardassian justice system compared to one of my Hong Konger friend's view of justice on mainland china. Basically for high profile things, if you've been arrested, you already know that you'll be found guilty. Either the crime you've been accused of is too high profile so that if you aren't convicted then you'll cause embarrassment to the party, or someone high up in the party thinks you've directly wronged them. Either that or you just haven't bribed the right people. The question is what the sentence will be and that partially depends on how much you throw yourself on the mercy of the court. Again, of course this is his view of how justice goes there and he specifically left Hong Kong before the UK ceded it back to China. Also, I don't think anyone has accused the Chinese of taking teeth as a regular occurrence.
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Jan 31, 2014 09:29
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Tony Montana posted:The show trial was broadcast to all. Imagine it's a US citizen, captured by no Al Qaeda or some splinter terrorist group but an entire other country. Pick one, it doesn't matter. Then they broadcast the show trial on their public TV and promise to execute him for crimes they claim he's committed and they've tried by their standards. It's just ridiculous. Not just the US would pretty much immediately see this as an unacceptable affront to national and global security, the rest of us (Aus, UK, etc) would pretty much jump straight the gently caress up too and it'll be WW2 all over again. The whole UN would get in on the act. Iran's capture of those British Navy sailors a few years ago comes to mind. Iran held them for two weeks, denied them access to consul, and made nonspecific threats of punishment towards them. The UK and its allies got way mad about it but it didn't start WW3. Yes, poo poo might have gone down if they had actually come close to executing them, but it's not really that far-out of a scenario.
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Jan 31, 2014 09:36
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I said "almost"
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Jan 31, 2014 11:09
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Jan 31, 2014 16:30
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DS9 Best Trek   
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Jan 31, 2014 16:40
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I wasn't rooting for either team, but if our dear Captain Picard is rooting for the Seahawks I suppose that's reason enough to choose who to root for!
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Jan 31, 2014 16:47
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The not-American football is best part.
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Jan 31, 2014 16:54
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Knormal posted:The only problem with the Season 8 books is that because they were being so serial they fell out of sync with the rest of the Trek books, so while the DS9 books were supposed to take place over like a year or so the rest of the books tend to follow the 1 real year = 1 Trekverse year rule and got years ahead. Because of this the DS9 relaunch series just abruptly stops with The Soul Key in 2009/2377, because by then we'd already seen the future of some of the DS9 characters in the Destiny trilogy in 2008/2381. They left tons of plotlines hanging, and DS9 novels became kind pretty disjointed after that, with most of the novels released under the DS9 name really just focusing on a few of the characters doing things away from the station. We didn't get a true DS9-centic again novel until 2012's Plagues of Night. They've been pretty stable since then though. When Knormal says "abruptly stops" he totally means it too. There's this massive buildup with some seriously crazy poo poo that portends to be apocalyptic in scope in Soul Key, then .... absolutely nothing. The events are referred to in the next set of DS9 books and apparently were very influential to make Kira quit her job and become a Vedek but the whole thing is pretty much handwaved as "yeah A Thing happened, it's all good now, let's never reference it again." Very jarring. While I personally think the "season 8" books spiraled their way into some ludicrous bullshit (MegaHitler Dukat and his Rape Dungeon Adventure with Fake Kira/Illiana Ghemor and everything that results from that) on the way to that last book, they were definitely pretty entertaining getting there. I just wish they'd resolve that whole thing so I can see just how ridiculous they would have gotten with it. I'm not too thrilled about the new stuff starting with Plagues of Night but ehh, might just be Trek overload.
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Jan 31, 2014 16:54
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LegionAreI posted:When Knormal says "abruptly stops" he totally means it too. There's this massive buildup with some seriously crazy poo poo that portends to be apocalyptic in scope in Soul Key, then .... absolutely nothing. The events are referred to in the next set of DS9 books and apparently were very influential to make Kira quit her job and become a Vedek but the whole thing is pretty much handwaved as "yeah A Thing happened, it's all good now, let's never reference it again." Very jarring. Good lord. Either I'm forgetting some poo poo or Unity was a good place to stop after all. I picked up DS9: Valhalla on Amazon Kindle the other day, it's not the most amazing book in the world, but I'm happy to be reading it again. They reference the Defiant being away from the station, but the way the characters interact and the heavy Cardassian politics make it feel much more like a first season episode. If you ignore the Defiant being there, I guess it would have to take place between The Forsaken and Duet. Picking up on the Jadzia conversation earlier, I always waffle on whether she's a good character or not, but I'm starting to lean towards good. I think her characterization earlier in the series is better than in later seasons. She has this otherwordly calm around her, utterly confident and competent, and really does come across with the "wisdom of age" bit. She makes a good contrast to Kira at that point. In fact, Kira sort of takes over some of those mannerisms later in the series as she becomes more sure of what she expects of herself. I'm always reminded of early series Jadzia whenever she has conversations with Sisko because she always acts as his sounding board, letting him work his way to the right decision instead of interjecting her own opinion. She seems so above it all. But after her later relationship, she sort of breaks down into a boring generic adventure girl and it doesn't really work for me. Basically, if you juxtapose early Dax and Ezri, then you'll have a fight on your hands about who's better because they're two halves of the same coin. One is a woman who's been preparing for the joining all her life and the other is an emergency receptacle for the symbiote who never intended to be joined. If it's late Dax and Ezri, I've gotta go with Ezri. primaltrash fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jan 31, 2014 |
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Jan 31, 2014 17:00
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Nemesis is on Syfy right now. TNG's The First Duty is on BBC America right now. Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Ehhhhh.
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Jan 31, 2014 17:07
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Apple Jax posted:I wasn't rooting for either team, but if our dear Captain Picard is rooting for the Seahawks I suppose that's reason enough to choose who to root for! Gandalf has better taste in football teams. Gau fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jan 31, 2014 |
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Jan 31, 2014 17:17
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Gau posted:Gandalf has better taste in handegg teams. Look, if Sir Patrick Stewart calls it football, you will loving call it football too.
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Jan 31, 2014 17:22
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armoredgorilla posted:Look, if Sir Patrick Stewart calls it football, you will loving call it football too. Yes, sir! Now all I can imagine is Enterprise, but instead of Scott Bakula they have Peyton Manning.
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Jan 31, 2014 17:25
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Jan 31, 2014 17:39
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I always got the impression that Jadzia was a shell of a person, and the symbiotic had the dominant personality. Ezri was a fully realized person and was dealing with the addition of another set of life experiences.
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Jan 31, 2014 17:45
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