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Zohar posted:Sorry if I'm being unclear, I mean the mechanics of the nuclear war itself are a peripheral feature because if you're playing 'properly' you shouldn't be spending much game time in it. Obviously the threat of nuclear war is going to be an enormous factor, but you don't need a really involved and detailed nuclear war system for it to be a big threat. OK, I understand. Somebody earlier mentioned something like "you should get game over if nuclear winter causes the Earth's agriculture to no longer be able to support the remaining population", and I think that was what you're arguing against: truly excessive detail devoted to what is, essentially, a failure state. Not trying to be too harsh to the person who suggested that, but that would be a clusterfuck of systems to implement, none of which would come into play unless the game is basically over.
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Feb 1, 2014 03:39
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Patter Song posted:
Finally a Paradox game where the Balkans can properly genocide each other. Day One purchase.
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Feb 1, 2014 03:43
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Patter Song posted:
There are 16 provinces and the list isn't even halfway through the A's  And now for something completely different- a newly registered user on the Kaiserreich forum posted this in our Hungary discussion thread. quote:- In the country's description in the menu, and in the whole game, there are tons of !lies! about Magyarisation, and the whole game is acting like the Hungarians are mad-racist-nationalist-opressors of everyone around them. I know that in most of the countries which gained territory from Hungary in 1920 (namely Romania, Slovakia, Serbia) they teach about "magyarisation"
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Feb 1, 2014 03:44
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Patter Song posted:
I forgot, are those population numbers abstracted or something? Because 3 hits to kill 2000 people seems a bit...wrong.
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Feb 1, 2014 03:46
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GrossMurpel posted:I forgot, are those population numbers abstracted or something? Because 3 hits to kill 2000 people seems a bit...wrong. They all seem to be rural localities. The first hit killed everybody and the last two were overkill.
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Feb 1, 2014 03:48
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Kavak posted:There are 16 provinces and the list isn't even halfway through the A's So somehow he thinks the annexation events are actually forced cultural assimilation events.  Or is he confused about the concept of 'national' provinces?
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Feb 1, 2014 03:52
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GrossMurpel posted:I forgot, are those population numbers abstracted or something? Because 3 hits to kill 2000 people seems a bit...wrong. Did you somehow miss glorious Akuray on that list?
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Feb 1, 2014 04:01
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Patter Song posted:Did you somehow miss glorious Akuray on that list? Maybe it was a small nuke?
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Feb 1, 2014 04:06
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Kavak posted:There are 16 provinces and the list isn't even halfway through the A's Makes sense to me. There are people who are not Magyars in Hungarian territories, therefore there was no such thing as a "Magyarization" policy. Remember how Russification Russified literally all the national minorities of the Russian Empire and Soviet Union so now there's no more non-Russians who live there?
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Feb 1, 2014 04:12
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Raskolnikov38 posted:So somehow he thinks the annexation events are actually forced cultural assimilation events. Here's the actual KR scenario text for Hungary: quote:Before 1914 the Kingdom of Hungary regarded itself as a Great Power in its own right, as it constituted one half of the powerful Habsburg Dual-Monarchy. Victory in the Weltkrieg bought the Kingdom territorial gains at the expense of Serbia and Romania, but not the dominant position in the East that the Hungarians expected. While its agrarian economy has not fared well in the face of cheap grain from the new Eastern Kingdoms (particularly Ukraine), the political troubles in Austria and the weak Imperial authority under the adolescent Emperor Otto has allowed the Magyars to follow a more independent line.A Hungarian national army has been formed, and a new strain of aggressive and expansionist nationalism, determined to ‘Magyarise’ the divided peoples of the Balkans, has come to the fore of Hungarian politics. While German meddling in 1927 prevented the Hungarians from cementing their dominant position in the Dual Monarchy, the next Ausgleich renegotiation should be the time when the whole of the Crown Lands of St. Stephen will finally be restored to the Magyar nation. I think that guy thinks the 'Magyarise' line is a general statement about Habsburg Hungary's national policies rather than specifically a post-Great War thing. Magyarization was more a general thing, but that's not what the text is saying.
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Feb 1, 2014 04:20
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Pornographic Memory posted:Makes sense to me. There are people who are not Magyars in Hungarian territories, therefore there was no such thing as a "Magyarization" policy. Remember how Russification Russified literally all the national minorities of the Russian Empire and Soviet Union so now there's no more non-Russians who live there? No, you don't understand. Hungary could have done that if it wanted to and her untermenschen subjects would've abandoned their lovely cultures and languages, but out of the sheer goodness of their hearts Romanians, Ukrainians, Slovaks, and so on were allowed to remain unmolested. 
Kavak fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 04:21
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Kavak posted:There are 16 provinces and the list isn't even halfway through the A's Yessssss we need more crazy Eastern European nationalists. I'm Hungarian too so I know a fair bit of Hungarian history and I've been waiting for some loving crazy person to start talking about how great Austria-Hungary was (it was pretty loving terrible). The really amazing part of this is that under Austria-Hungary literally everyone but the Hungarians and Austrians were treated like poo poo. I personally can't wait till we get our first Paradox Macedonian nationalist talking about how Macedonia should have all of Greece and they're the real heirs to Alexander the Great, etc, etc. axeil fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 04:48
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axeil posted:Yessssss we need more crazy Eastern European nationalists. I'm Hungarian too so I know a fair bit of Hungarian history and I've been waiting for some loving crazy person to start talking about how great Austria-Hungary was (it was pretty loving terrible). This one won't last long, I'm afraid- the site admin is a Slovakian anti-fascist and the next post in the thread completely ignored him.
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Feb 1, 2014 05:01
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Kavak posted:And now for something completely different- a newly registered user on the Kaiserreich forum posted this in our Hungary discussion thread. Well, you know, he's not wrong. You certainly are spreading a lot of lies in Kaiserreich! For instance, what is this nonsense about Germany winning the First World War? Lies! And Russia not falling to Bolsheviks? Further lies! The British monarchy fleeing to Canada? The United Kingdom and France becoming communist states? Lies, damned lies! You should be ashamed of yourself for participating in such a fundamentally dishonest endeavor! Tomn fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 06:10
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axeil posted:I'm Hungarian too so I know a fair bit of Hungarian history and I've been waiting for some loving crazy person to start talking about how great Austria-Hungary was (it was pretty loving terrible). A Hungarian complaining about the evils of AH, no matter the facts. Can't say I am surprised, but let's see who was the real jerk to minorities in that relationship, starting 1867. The Hungarians ruled themselves and were pretty much solely to blame for bad treatment of minorities in their part of the dual monarchy. Official policy of Hungary was Magyarisation of all its subjects. Reserving 90% of official posts for Hungarians, renaming pretty much all towns with Hungarian names no matter how many Hungarians actually lived there, and of course the language became required in law, government, and education. Teachers would be fired if the students didn't speak Hungarian! Voting rights were limited to the aristocracy. Plus, out of 400 parliament members only 16 were non-Hungarians. In the Austrian half, there was no Germanisation. People were taught in their own languages since Joseph II, minority rights were ever expanded, laws were proclaimed in no less than eight languages, the historical dominance of German in government was reduced (esp in Bohemia. German riots against forced the prime minister out of office). Voting rights were continuously expanded until equal universal male suffrage in 1907. Silly Austrians, trying to appease their minorities so they don't tear the empire apart.
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Feb 1, 2014 09:45
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E: Double post, sorry.
Littlefinger fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 10:22
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Riso posted:In the Austrian half, there was no Germanisation. Littlefinger fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 10:32
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Pimpmust posted:If the dozens of Balance of Power games that's been played on these forums have taught me anything is that giving human players nuclear weapons that insta-end a game with a single action is a surefire way to end every MP game with a lot of e: A fun writeup on the potential consequences of a nuclear war. It might not be world ending, but it would change things enough that in the game existing mechanics wouldn't work well anymore.
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Feb 1, 2014 11:40
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Well that's fine and all in Twilight Struggle with 2 players, less so when theres a dozen people of which half or more may not even be involved in the round of brinkmanship that suddenly ends their game.
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Feb 1, 2014 11:45
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Yeah. I'm not sure this particular game is workable at all but dammit I want a good Cold War game.
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Feb 1, 2014 12:03
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Littlefinger posted:Er, wasn't Joseph II who made German the official language of business through the Empire? Arguably some sort of Germanization. Yes he promoted German as unifying language in government, but that was mostly to replace Latin, which he considered archaic. We're not talking about suppression of local culture or customs here; German was merely a second language.
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Feb 1, 2014 12:22
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Why is there no crying Metternich on an Austrian flag? Because I feel like that's the only appropriate response here.
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Feb 1, 2014 13:31
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I think part of the issue with Cold War and Paradox is that the Cold War was very much defined by the two superpowers as effectively unmoveable "poles" but in a Paradox game theoretically any country can eventually become a superpower in the same way that, in EU and Victoria, many people turn countries into Great Powers or huge empires that were not powers historically. I mean that's a big part of the game's appeal, building a Wallachian colonial empire across South America and poo poo like that. The reason that no one actually used nukes during the Cold War is because of the two superpowers and to a certain extant the personalities of the people leading them. It could very easily have been different, there are multiple points at which nukes could have come into the hands of someone who would have used them. And that's even still the case today. So it seems kind of silly to rule out the possibility entirely unless the game is a much more restrictive one than other Paradox games in terms of deviation from history. You would kind of have to start with a scenario where NATO and the Warsaw Pact were permanent fixtures. Earwicker fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 19:34
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Well, what kind of Cold War game would you make that didn't start with NATO and WarPact already established? It wouldn't be more restrictive than HoI and people seem perfectly happy with that.
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Feb 1, 2014 19:40
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DerLeo posted:Well, what kind of Cold War game would you make that didn't start with NATO and WarPact already established? It wouldn't be more restrictive than HoI and people seem perfectly happy with that. That would be great, I'm just saying that if you don't start with that setup it makes it kind of hard to take the nuclear option off the table or even make it an instant game over, because that changes the whole dynamic of the Cold War and it wouldn't have necessarily even been a "cold" war if geopolitical relations and alliances had gone differently. I'm sure they could come up with a system where nuking a province makes it unusable, or makes it +surrounding provinces unusable depending on the year and the level of technology, and then say that once a certain percentage of the world's provinces has been hit then maybe you get some kind of nuclear winter game over. Earwicker fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 19:44
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Viscardus posted:Why is there no crying Metternich on an Austrian flag? Because I feel like that's the only appropriate response here. There should be a crying Hungarian flag called :trianon:
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Feb 1, 2014 20:17
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Riso posted:There should be a crying Hungarian flag called :trianon: It's a good thing there were no Austrians upset by the Paris Peace Conference; imagine the problems that could have caused!
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Feb 1, 2014 20:44
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I'm hoping this is the best place to ask. Are there any mods the extend the timeline for Victoria 2 from either the start date or the end date? I know you can edit the files yourself but if there was a mod that added time appropriate events or nations it would be even better. I saw an "Empires" mod that took the start date to 1700 but it apparently doesn't work with all of the expansion packs.
Yar The Pirate fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 20:49
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While turning a third-rate power into a globe-spanning empire is definitely possible within EU and even within Victoria, it's definitely not a thing that can happen in HOI unless you enable a bunch of flat-out unrealistic options (full IC takeover, full tech team takeover). Anyone that wasn't already a major combatant of WW2 isn't going to be able to engineer a situation where they're taking the place of the US/USSR during the Cold War. You might have a different set of superpowers coming from a converted game of Victoria, but that's just a matter of taking the US/USSR mechanics and reapplying them to the Union of Rome and Mazula. I do acknowledge though that mechanics that work when looking at the Cold War as a two-player game will necessarily break down when applied to a game where a player is supposed to be able to control any nation he so chooses, even if it's one that would have as little influence on the overall strategic situation as, say, Albania.
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Feb 1, 2014 20:51
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Remember, it's a video game with Paradox mechanics. Start up in the 1948 start date as India, thoroughly spank Pakistan and reannex it and Bangladesh, go to work conquering Sri Lanka, Burma, Afghanistan and you're a pretty solid third pole in the Cold War. Develop nuclear weapons and suddenly Nehru's getting invited to every US/Soviet summit as an equal partner. There are all sorts of reasons this didn't and couldn't have happened in real life, but it's hard to think of a reason why it wouldn't be not just possible but easy in a game, given India's vast population and resources and a lack of US/Soviet interest in South Asia in the 1940s/their distraction by Korea.
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Feb 1, 2014 20:59
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Patter Song posted:Remember, it's a video game with Paradox mechanics. Start up in the 1948 start date as India, thoroughly spank Pakistan and reannex it and Bangladesh, go to work conquering Sri Lanka, Burma, Afghanistan and you're a pretty solid third pole in the Cold War. Develop nuclear weapons and suddenly Nehru's getting invited to every US/Soviet summit as an equal partner. You and what industrial capacity?
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Feb 1, 2014 21:04
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India could industrialize pretty quickly and effectively if it wanted to. Real Life India's managed an impressive amount of it, even with its major problem - which always has, and will be for some great amount of time, the hilarious amount of ingrained corruption.
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Feb 1, 2014 21:05
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It's not so much the corruption (see China) as the fact that half the population is not only considered untouchable but also too drat dumb.
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Feb 1, 2014 21:09
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Sorry for asking this for probably the 50th time, but what's a good army composition for the early game in HoD? 5 inf 5 art 1 hussar 1 engineer? If I recall correctly, cuirassiers are pretty useless, right? E: And what's a good composition for an unciv nation that doesn't have access to artillery?
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Feb 1, 2014 23:29
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Guys who cares about the Paradox Cold War game, we have all the Cold War fun we could possibly want right here in the Extended Timeline EUIV mod, available at the Steam Workshop. The world after a couple of years of playing. Not too much has happened, other than learning Slovakians are actually confused Hungarians and Slovenians are confused Austrians. Although I did turn Syria into a fascist dictatorship and invaded Jordan and Israel. I was surprised to learn the Israelites were actually Egyptians however.  Also, Japan has found what it needs to tip the scales for its quest to be the dominant power in the Pacific.  Not pictured: The Syrian secular crusade on Jordan, the UK's mission to gain a foothold in Western India (NOT AGAIN YOU FUCKERS  ), South Africa has nothing but English and Dutch people, and more!A link to the Workshop page if anyone is interested (you can also play al the way back to the year 51 and make sure the sun never sets on the Roman Empire  );http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=217416366
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Feb 2, 2014 00:14
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DStecks posted:OK, I understand. Somebody earlier mentioned something like "you should get game over if nuclear winter causes the Earth's agriculture to no longer be able to support the remaining population", and I think that was what you're arguing against: truly excessive detail devoted to what is, essentially, a failure state.
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Feb 2, 2014 00:34
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DrProsek posted:The world after a couple of years of playing. Not too much has happened, other than learning Slovakians are actually confused Hungarians and Slovenians are confused Austrians. Although I did turn Syria into a fascist dictatorship and invaded Jordan and Israel. I was surprised to learn the Israelites were actually Egyptians however. To be fair my understanding is some Slovenians like to play up the "heh WE were part of the holy roman empire proper, don't you know?"
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Feb 2, 2014 00:42
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Strudel Man posted:In fairness, that wouldn't necessarily require excessive detail. You could approximate it as simply as total megatonnage of nuclear weapons used, which seems like a decent method to distinguish between a limited nuclear exchange and apocalyptic nuclear war. Yeah, that's pretty much what I mean, the best option in my opinion would not be to prevent access to nukes or instantly slap a game over as soon as they're used, just have a simple mechanic to apply a malus that increases for each given number of nukes being thrown, and end the game when it gets to a certain threshold. But it would be neat to then have a DLC where you can play a government struggling to survive in postapocalyptia  e: Made the bad decision of checking the EvW forum to see what they're actually doing and  of course this thread is near the top
Zohar fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 00:44
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Yar The Pirate posted:I'm hoping this is the best place to ask. Are there any mods the extend the timeline for Victoria 2 from either the start date or the end date? I know you can edit the files yourself but if there was a mod that added time appropriate events or nations it would be even better. I saw an "Empires" mod that took the start date to 1700 but it apparently doesn't work with all of the expansion packs. There's a mod that turns back the start date to 1700, called appropriately 1700 AD, complete with altered pops, borders, technologies and events but its pretty much an alpha. Its on the first page of the vicky mod forum. There's also the modern day mod that adjusts the entire era. Besides that you pretty much just have to alter the end date in defines yourself. There aren't many date adjustment mods despite a longer timeframe being every vicky players dream because A) pops make it a shitload of work and B) the vicky economy and pop system is a delicately adjusted machine that will explode in a million pieces if you run it too long. After 150 years at most, the world of vicky inevitably turns into a weird nonsensical dystopia where alternating groups of rebels overthrow governments every year, shortages of basic goods plague every country, millions of chinese pour into the new world every year, and the world economy grinds to a halt because germany has amassed most of the money in the world or something else equally ridiculous. I don't think this is possible to fix within hardcoded limits. SickZip fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 00:46
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Does anyone know if the 'feature' in New Nations Mod for Vicky 2 that causes the USA to gain ridiculously huge amounts of militancy nonstop forever if the country is anything other than a Democracy can be disabled/removed? It seems to be unique to the US and it results in the country collapsing into complete loving chaos if rebels ever manage to win. I tried Communist America for a while and random bits of the country kept seceding, being reconquered, and then seceding again, before the entire loving thing collapsed in the mother of all Jacobin revolts after about fifteen years. This despite the country still being about 35% Communist and 20% Socialist; the Reds collectively made up a majority of the population but still participated in the massive uprising anyway because AMERICA gently caress YEAH.
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Feb 2, 2014 01:08
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