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docbeard posted:Fix is also a changeling, so there's every reason to believe he brought some weird aging poo poo to the table to begin with. Although it occurs to me, does his being the Summer Knight imply that he chose to become fully mortal? Yeah, Jim clarified in an interview that he chose to become mortal by taking up the mantle and Lily chose to become Fae by becoming the Summer Lady. Not that either of them really had a choice in the matter. Which means the poo poo with Molly is going to be interesting. And really tragic.
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Feb 1, 2014 03:13
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Donraj posted:Mab did say that Thomas counted as mortal enough to be the Winter Knight, so I don't think being fully mortal is necessarily a requirement. Mortal in the specific sense of "not fae", though that's a good point. It seems like the key is that the Knights have to be free to act in the mortal world in the way that the Queens and their other agents cannot.
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Feb 1, 2014 03:18
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Zore posted:Yeah, Jim clarified in an interview that he chose to become mortal by taking up the mantle and Lily chose to become Fae by becoming the Summer Lady. Not that either of them really had a choice in the matter. It really is the best. I almost wish there was a companion series from Grasshopper's PoV
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Feb 1, 2014 17:11
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Anias posted:It really is the best. I almost wish there was a companion series from Grasshopper's PoV Seriously. Her short story in Dangerous Women was a fun alternate perspective.
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Feb 1, 2014 18:02
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There wouldn't be as much nipple talk though.
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Feb 1, 2014 19:17
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You clearly haven't read enough female pov in this genre. (There would inevitably be more, bleh)
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Feb 1, 2014 20:41
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Yeah I'd stay away from any of the Anita Blake stuff.
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Feb 1, 2014 20:48
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Going to be getting futurewife into the books before starting up a session of the Dresden RPG in tradgames. I'm eager to see her reactions and I'm willing to bet they're just as dramatic as mine.
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Feb 2, 2014 00:10
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WastedJoker posted:There wouldn't be as much nipple talk though. Anias posted:You clearly haven't read enough female pov in this genre. (There would inevitably be more, bleh) Not to mention a whole lot of things going on "down south" or below the stomach. Harry's observations don't bother me too much because I read a lot of urban fantasy with female protagonists and their observations about themselves are usually weird and seem detached. They often react to men worse than Harry reacts to women. I just read a couple of books that might be of interest. Generation V and Iron Night by M.L. Brennan are about Fortitude Scott, a young guy who's going to become a vampire and doesn't want that to happen any time soon. Vampires are born and he's distanced himself from his family to prolong his humanity. He works minimum wage jobs and knows almost nothing about the supernatural world. When he get pulled into vampire politics, his mother hires a kitsune to be his body guard. The vampires and kitsune are different than anything I've read and the vampires are pretty brutal for UF where a (pre)vampire is the MC. Fortitude learns about things as he goes along and doesn't have any rear end-kicking skills in the first book. By the second book, he's been training but he's still not a badass. It's refreshing. The other two I've read are Silver and Tarnished by Rhiannon Held. They're about werewolves and focus on two of them who are broken and how they try to work past it and strengthen the packs in the US. There's action but they're more introspective and character driven that you'd expect from werewolf books. The male MC is in his 50s and has had a family and the female MC had silver injected in her arm and went somewhat mad from it and that madness stays with her. She sees the world differently than the other wolves and is more observant than they give her credit for. The two MCs are both alphas and they realize it together. I liked the dynamics between wolves and how Silver the female MC realized how people saw her and would use that to her advantage. There's a lot of description of the characters' body language but no embarrassing descriptions of nipples, chests, or butts. And the sex happens off screen. Now I'm reading The Last Werewolf finally. I think I spoiled the ending by reading the description of the next book. Oops.
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Feb 2, 2014 03:09
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Moving on... Death Masks The saga continues and finding out more about The White Court was very interesting. The whole Macbeth, three withes a brewin' angle was a neat retelling of sorts. Papa Raith is pretty badass as well and maybe we will see him again in another capacity down the line. Also He Who Walks Behind. A new player with a connection to Harry's past. But the biggest thing and I posted about it earlier when I read it is THOMAS IS HARRY'S BROTHER! I mean come on. I never saw that coming, but looking back it explains a lot of their relationship. The soulgaze they shared was very...sweet? I'm not sure of the correct word. Anyway the writing of JB has gotten way tighter and better. RE: Murphy and Harry. Bold Prediction-> I predicting never, because that would screw up the books. We will be dragged along for ride, wondering if it will ever happen. I won't. I don't want to know if I'm right. Just throwing it out there is all. Oh, and tell your kitty I said hi. https://www.saintsrowmods.com/forum/attachments/oh-you-15729-jpg.3265/
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Feb 2, 2014 21:26
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drat, after all of the exciting reveals, humor and character development of Dead Beat, Proven Guilty is by far the worst book of the series to me. Only a little bit left in the book, and despite some interesting things occurring The attack on Mab's fortress I find Charity to be completely annoying and her daughter even worse. And Forthill? UGH. I have never skipped over parts of the series while reading until now, but conversations with several characters just dragged.
Shammypants fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 22:03
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XyrlocShammypants posted:I find Charity to be completely annoying and her daughter even worse. And Forthill? UGH. I have never skipped over parts of the series while reading until now, but conversations with several characters just dragged. What parts specifically? Also the last scene of the book (if I'm remembering right) is pretty great.
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Feb 2, 2014 22:19
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Arcsech posted:
You are remembering correctly.
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Feb 2, 2014 22:20
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XyrlocShammypants posted:drat, after all of the exciting reveals, humor and character development of Dead Beat, Proven Guilty is by far the worst book of the series to me. Only a little bit left in the book, and despite some interesting things occurring The attack on Mab's fortress I find Charity to be completely annoying and her daughter even worse. And Forthill? UGH. I have never skipped over parts of the series while reading until now, but conversations with several characters just dragged. Charity became a lot less annoying for me in later books, but then, she played much smaller roles after that book as far as I can recall. That will probably change in Skin Game, though.
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Feb 2, 2014 22:25
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Wade Wilson posted:Charity became a lot less annoying for me in later books, but then, she played much smaller roles after that book as far as I can recall. That will probably change in Skin Game, though. I actually appreciated how Charity was something of a counterpoint to Dresden. Without having a normal human beings around to compare the hero to, Dresden would just be full-time fantasy, rather being a special snowflake grating against the modern world.
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Feb 2, 2014 22:45
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Foolie posted:I actually appreciated how Charity was something of a counterpoint to Dresden. Without having a normal human beings around to compare the hero to, Dresden would just be full-time fantasy, rather being a special snowflake grating against the modern world. Yea I guess my problem is that she switched from one personality to the next and I didn't like any of them. One moment she was just as rear end in a top hat, then you learn why and she becomes kind of a badass. She spends all of this time creating what is I imagine a deep and interesting character for some, but just too bipolar for my liking, even after her major reveals. She vacillates between being an irrational crying or angry mom, to a kind of distant fundy champion of God. At different points in the book I thought, "so she is going to inherit the sword from Dresden, isn't she?" and "so she is going to actually still have powers, isn't she?" I still have time left in the book, but it seems like neither is the case. She just rubbed me the wrong way. Forthill and Molly are just kind of sterotypes and that's why I don't find them interesting. Nothing Forthill says is particularly interesting or revealing to me. 99.9% of Forthill's dialogue can be boiled down to "God has a plan, even for you Harry!" *queue laughtrack* What makes it worse is that Michael is basically the more awesome, more interesting and more unique version of Forthill in every imaginable way. Shammypants fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 23:54
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Donraj posted:Butcher has stated he will be back in time for the finale trilogy. He also said we wouldn't see Titania until the final trilogy, so... Do we have a promotion tour schedule yet? For Cold Days he got sick when near me and had to cancel, so I want to make sure I get a signed copy this time
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Feb 3, 2014 00:03
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Fried Chicken posted:He also said we wouldn't see Titania until the final trilogy, so... Pro tip: Shower before the signing and he won't get sick when near you.
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Feb 3, 2014 01:17
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http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi1839180569/ Spot someone who has read the books 
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Feb 3, 2014 02:43
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So what's the best Dresden book to get if I want to learn how to write an urban fantasy? I want to practice writing Dresden Files-esque stories (but not fanfiction), and since these are some of the best urban fantasies, I thought that looking over one of the DF books a few dozen times would help. Or any of of the recommended urban fantasy stories. Since I have all of the Dresden Files books, I can pick between any of them, but I just would like some input on which is the best to examine to understand the conventions of urban fantasy and so forth. Or if there's a "how to write urban fantasy" book, that would help as well. Though I should probably just start an Urban Fantasy thread in Creative Convention, I don't know if I should, since I only have exposure to urban fantasy through the Dresden Files, Iron Druid, and a couple of others.
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Feb 3, 2014 04:13
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Gygaxian posted:So what's the best Dresden book to get if I want to learn how to write an urban fantasy? I want to practice writing Dresden Files-esque stories (but not fanfiction), and since these are some of the best urban fantasies, I thought that looking over one of the DF books a few dozen times would help. Or any of of the recommended urban fantasy stories. Since I have all of the Dresden Files books, I can pick between any of them, but I just would like some input on which is the best to examine to understand the conventions of urban fantasy and so forth. Butcher has a series of tutorials on writing urban fantasy on his old live journal.
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Feb 3, 2014 04:20
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Gygaxian posted:So what's the best Dresden book to get if I want to learn how to write an urban fantasy? I want to practice writing Dresden Files-esque stories (but not fanfiction), and since these are some of the best urban fantasies, I thought that looking over one of the DF books a few dozen times would help. Or any of of the recommended urban fantasy stories. Since I have all of the Dresden Files books, I can pick between any of them, but I just would like some input on which is the best to examine to understand the conventions of urban fantasy and so forth. "Urban Fantasy" is a small genre that is very, very, very closely related to Paranormal Romance novels, such as Twilight or True Blood. Most of the better, and better-known, Urban Fantasy is discussed in this thread. There's a small list of some of the thread's favorites in one of the first few posts in this thread. But honestly, Butcher is head and shoulders the king of Urban Fantasy. You have Dresden, then you have half a dozen decent novels/series set in London, and lastly you have novels that are various levels of trash (Sandman Slim, Iron Druid, etc). That's about all we got, man.
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Feb 3, 2014 06:31
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ConfusedUs posted:"Urban Fantasy" is a small genre that is very, very, very closely related to Paranormal Romance novels, such as Twilight or True Blood. Really? Man, we need to get to writing our own urban fantasy novels. I can't satisfy my lust for decent urban fantasy with just Dresden and the London novels. And I've only gotten the first Iron Druid book for fear that I'll chuck the rest across the room with disgust.
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Feb 3, 2014 06:38
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Gygaxian posted:Really? Man, we need to get to writing our own urban fantasy novels. I can't satisfy my lust for decent urban fantasy with just Dresden and the London novels. And I've only gotten the first Iron Druid book for fear that I'll chuck the rest across the room with disgust. My advice for Iron Druid: stop when you think Oberon isn't funny anymore. Because he's about the only good part of the last couple of books.
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Feb 3, 2014 06:41
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Gygaxian posted:Really? Man, we need to get to writing our own urban fantasy novels. I can't satisfy my lust for decent urban fantasy with just Dresden and the London novels. And I've only gotten the first Iron Druid book for fear that I'll chuck the rest across the room with disgust. If you really want to write some "dresden" style poo poo, you should look at the inspiration Butcher's built his stories on and then look at how he uses those inspirations in the stories themselves. There's 2 big pieces that make up a Dresden book imo, the first you already got covered from the looks of your user name  , Nerd poo poo.2nd, read a lot of old noir detective stories, everything from Storm Front to like...Turn Coat is classic noir detective stuff with the serial numbers filed off + magic and mythology. Edit: I mean, gently caress, the first time we meet Mab in Harry's office in Summer Knight, is almost purely classic femme fatale "she strode into the office late at night all smoky eyes and a smile like a knife at your throat". Edit 2: Actually, a lot of the weird descriptions of women characters throughout the books can be laid at the feet of pulpy noir (Butcher's just extra goony about it). Luckily it's toned waaaaay down in the recent books. Error 404 fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 06:46
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Error 404 posted:Everything from Storm Front to like...Turn Coat is classic noir detective stuff with the serial numbers filed off + magic and mythology. This is where I think most Urban Fantasy goes wrong. It tries to be modern, with magic, but lacks grounding in some other subgenre. The Automatic Detective, by A. Lee Martinez, is a really fun noir/sci-fi romp. "New York, with robots" is a fun concept, but it's broad and unspecific. It needs a third leg to stand on. "New York, with a robot detective...that gives you not only a foundation for the story, but you can also reference noir and mystery novels to help build the plot.
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Feb 3, 2014 06:50
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There's also the Lord Darcy series by Randall Garrett, which is kinda-sorta urban fantasy. It predates the genre, but it's an excellent set of fantasy murder mysteries.
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Feb 3, 2014 07:11
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ConfusedUs posted:This is where I think most Urban Fantasy goes wrong. It tries to be modern, with magic, but lacks grounding in some other subgenre. See, the problem with that is that the city where I want to place my own urban fantasy (Salt Lake City) doesn't seem populous or gritty enough to do a proper "noir"-style story. Are there any detective stories, UF or otherwise, that take place in a city that's rather small (200,000 people) but is still clearly a regional center? Thanks for the advice though, I'll have to check out more detective noir books and that sci-fi noir book. I don't actually have much experience reading noir, so this'll be a trip.
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Feb 3, 2014 07:41
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Gygaxian posted:Are there any detective stories, UF or otherwise, that take place in a city that's rather small (200,000 people) but is still clearly a regional center? It's Urban Fantasy, and it's generally iffy (but I like it) but the Mercedes Thompson series by Patricia Briggs is pretty good, and takes place in the Tri-Cities in Washington State (3 small towns whose border overlap slightly).
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Feb 3, 2014 07:48
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ConfusedUs posted:This is where I think most Urban Fantasy goes wrong. It tries to be modern, with magic, but lacks grounding in some other subgenre. I think the "Budayeen" series by George Alec Effinger is a perfect example of this. Arabian Nights + detective + cyberpunk = awesome
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Feb 3, 2014 07:49
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Error 404 posted:It's Urban Fantasy, and it's generally iffy (but I like it) but the Mercedes Thompson series by Patricia Briggs is pretty good, and takes place in the Tri-Cities in Washington State (3 small towns whose border overlap slightly). Oh yeah, I have the first Mercedes Thompson book, and it's pretty good, though even this early on in the series, the paranormal romance stuff is incredibly annoying. And the covers are... less than ideal if I ever want to read them in a public place.
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Feb 3, 2014 08:36
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Gygaxian posted:Oh yeah, I have the first Mercedes Thompson book, and it's pretty good, though even this early on in the series, the paranormal romance stuff is incredibly annoying. And the covers are... less than ideal if I ever want to read them in a public place. The series is really good at first but gets markedly worse, I stopped reading after her neighbor alpha werewolf guy cures her of being raped by having sex with her and being DOMINANT. Which sucked, because I thought Z was a cool character with a bunch of kickass mystery surrounding him. More Z!
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Feb 3, 2014 09:33
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Error 404 posted:2nd, read a lot of old noir detective stories, everything from Storm Front to like...Turn Coat is classic noir detective stuff with the serial numbers filed off + magic and mythology. That aside, please don't learn to write off the back of Butcher's work. He is a bad writer. I read every drat novel in the series on release day, but it's a guilty pleasure - the prose itself is only decent by SF/fantasy standards. coffeetable fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 10:52
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I kind of like Benedict Jacka's Alex Verus series a little bit more than Ben Aaronovitch's Rivers of London.
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Feb 3, 2014 11:23
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-Fish- posted:The series is really good at first but gets markedly worse, I stopped reading after her neighbor alpha werewolf guy cures her of being raped by having sex with her and being DOMINANT. I truly wish this was a really hosed up joke.... But I know it's not and that makes me sad.
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Feb 3, 2014 13:50
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72RqpItxd8M Now everyone is joining the ride a t-rex train 
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Feb 3, 2014 15:06
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-Fish- posted:The series is really good at first but gets markedly worse, I stopped reading after her neighbor alpha werewolf guy cures her of being raped by having sex with her and being DOMINANT. Yeeeeeah. Their version of Fae stuff is interesting, and whenever a book focuses on that, it's worth reading. But 70% of any book is either rape, dominance, or weird wolf mate bonding stuff. (What can I say, I ran out of urban fantasy to read so I read some of the bad stuff. At least it's an eBook so I don't need to worry about the covers on train rides.)
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Feb 3, 2014 15:12
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OmniBeer posted:Yeeeeeah. Plus how all those bitches back in the Maraq's pack, like, totally hate her because she can have babies. Coyote.
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Feb 3, 2014 16:53
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coffeetable posted:Yeah, overarching narrative aside every individual book in the series is formulaic. Dresden gets a "case", gets in over his head, gets beat down, gets some information/allies, gets beat down, gets some more information/allies, wins. Oh, I just want to write decent urban fantasy, and though I don't think I'll be as formulaic as Butcher, I just want to learn how to write a decent urban fantasy, especially since other than the books mentioned in this thread, most of the urban fantasy/paranormal romance books seem to be utter crap. Also I'm disappointed by the lack of urban fantasy set in the area I live in (Iron Druid being in Arizona was nice, but not quite good enough setting-wise, as I live in Utah). So I figure I should write my own and quit bellyaching.
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Feb 3, 2014 20:42
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Gygaxian posted:Oh, I just want to write decent urban fantasy, and though I don't think I'll be as formulaic as Butcher, I just want to learn how to write a decent urban fantasy, especially since other than the books mentioned in this thread, most of the urban fantasy/paranormal romance books seem to be utter crap. The trick to writing decent anything is to be able to write. Don't use the supernatural elements as a crutch to make your story work. Build your story like you would anything else. You need plot, and characters, and pacing, and all of that far more than you need something zany like a Mountie wizard and his pet moose. That's the point I was trying to make before; Dresden isn't good because it's a smart-rear end wizard in Chicago. Dresden is good because it's a well-crafted story featuring a smart-rear end wizard in Chicago. That's where most urban fantasy fails. It tries to use the fantastic elements as a crutch to hold the story up.
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Feb 3, 2014 22:52
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