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I would like to reiterate my prediction that Ceciltron will have to move to a different province/leave china altogether as I have know people who sued their employers a few months into a contract and the end result was always lots of trouble getting a new FEC.
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Feb 3, 2014 11:00
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I have to say that I feel the way that people seem to be categorizing the Chinese job market and privilege does not match my experience anywhere outside of migrant and factory floor work maybe. In much of the urban job market employers struggle with retention of employees. This is because one of the most common ways to get promoted or increase salary is to move laterally or diagonally between companies. This was simply common practice and companies with high retention were the exception. Perhaps this has changed dramatically in some way over the past couple of years. In ESL employers may become frustrated about variation in cultural values, but they equally prioritize hiring based on things other than qualification. And of course there is the entire industry of having a foreign "consultant" whose only qualification is that they are foreign. It seems to me that none of that has to do with some imported view of privilege or entitlement and to say it does strikes me a bit disingenuous and simplistic, not to mention self righteous. It's not that such attitudes don't exist in the expat population. Obviously they do. I just don't feel the current response matches the asserted behaviors about this and seems to have to do with something else altogether, though I don't know what exactly.
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Feb 3, 2014 11:12
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Sogol posted:...the entire industry of having a foreign "consultant" whose only qualification is that they are foreign.... "Exactly what" is that the first point doesn't always hold true. I'd like to think that goons are (on average) slightly more socially functional than your average backpacking ESL teacher. Things are moving on and some of the better universities are actually hiring Forward thinking is what counts in an institution these days. It's weird, but a small college in Henan has given me more power to make connections and develop programs than I ever had in the comparable university admin role I held in the UK. And that's only because of the people who are managing operations (which now includes me, thanks to the same principle). This is a bit unusual, I'll admit, but it's also why I work where I do. And I am not some starry eyed little weeabo fresh off the boat and glamorized by the "ancient" culture of If you have the talent and you find the right employer then you can go far ~ fearzero and blinkycotton are examples of that, along with few other goons too. But that second bit is crucial: right employer. [edit] China's like the early days of the "internet" share market: there's a million and one things going on and most of them are scams or just plain bad ideas. If you can find a Lowtax then you should grab hold of his foreskin because that shriveled little mushroom of nerd dong is going to take you through. Yeah. Take. It. It. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 11:48
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Sogol posted:In much of the urban job market employers struggle with retention of employees. This is because one of the most common ways to get promoted or increase salary is to move laterally or diagonally between companies. This was simply common practice and companies with high retention were the exception. Maybe if employers gave raises and promotions to the employees they have they wouldn't have this problem. edit: There's nothing more genuinely Chinese than the House of the Venerable and Inscrutible Colonel.
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Feb 3, 2014 12:30
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GuestBob posted:China's like the early days of the "internet" share market: there's a million and one things going on and most of them are scams or just plain bad ideas. If you can find a Lowtax then you should grab hold of his foreskin because that shriveled little mushroom of nerd dong is going to take you through. Yeah, but always, always have a back up or an exit plan just in case--even if you are Pro PRC level connected to China. Don't waste time at lovely places if you're qualified, keep doing professional development, improve your language skills*, don't get deported, and always keep enough money to bug out if you need to. * this is more of a do-as-I-say thing...if anything I think my Chinese has gotten worse 
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Feb 3, 2014 12:35
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FearCotton posted:Yeah, but always, always have a back up or an exit plan just in case--even if you are Pro PRC level connected to China. Don't waste time at lovely places if you're qualified, keep doing professional development, improve your language skills*, don't get deported, and always keep enough money to bug out if you need to. Obviously one should always have enough cash to bail and live for a few months so you can find another job. And more besides. Can I also add that one should also be considering further training, research or publication as equally important. This is a benefit of the right kind of state uni/college position (we are currently two for two on foreign staff doing further training).
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Feb 3, 2014 13:04
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GuestBob posted:But that second bit is crucial: right employer. Definitely. We got a bit lucky and rode in as part of a cooperation arrangement between a U.S. college and one of those Chinese universities that makes folks go "waaaaaaaaaah!" when they ask us for whom we work. (Honestly I doubt we'd have come over here at all without that nice deal. Fearcotton minored in Chinese cultural studies in college, but she never really wanted to do more than visit, and beyond studying Buddhism and Chinese philosophy as part of my minor I didn't have much interest in glorious 中国 either.) That "waaaaah" effect has definitely made some things easier -- both in China and, perhaps unsurprisingly, among Chinese-born or China-focused colleagues Stateside -- though more importantly our program is genuinely interested in doing its job properly. Some of that comes from the integrity of its staff. A lot more comes from the Chinese university's departmental oversight. In any case, it's a great job, though sometimes the political broadsides that get exchanged between the involved Eastern and Western parties are a loving ballache. Every time I read a horror story about working in China, I remember how lovely this experience could've turned out if we hadn't gotten that right employer from the beginning.
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Feb 3, 2014 13:20
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I always think it's funny that people can actually major in American Cultural Studies and they have programs that teach this in some countries. It makes you think of Azn Studies programs in an entirely different way, thinking about professors lecturing on Larry The Cable Guy or Nascar or whatever. Do students write papers on The Simpsons and South Park like US students do Miyazaki or Kurosawa? I remember writing some bullshit papers in Takashi Miike. Do Japanese students study the work of Keanu Reeves with utmost seriousity? Edit: if I was in a liberal arts program nowadays I would probably find some way to talk about Flappy Bird in a critical essay. In college I was basically this guy http://www.theonion.com/articles/sociology-101-assignment-stretched-to-incorporate,131/ bad day fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 13:27
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bad day posted:I always think it's funny that people can actually major in American Cultural Studies and they have programs that teach this in some countries. It makes you think of Azn Studies programs in an entirely different way, thinking about professors lecturing on Larry The Cable Guy or Nascar or whatever. Do students write papers on The Simpsons and South Park like US students do Miyazaki or Kurosawa? I remember writing some bullshit papers in Takashi Miike. Do Japanese students study the work of Keanu Reeves with utmost seriousity? Cultural studies is one of those areas of scholarship that always feels ridiculous despite being so useful and important. Gotta go work on my lectures about The Brak Show and the state of contemporary American science fiction films (watched Europa Report last night; was as good as Avatar is bad).
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Feb 3, 2014 13:34
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bad day posted:I always think it's funny that people can actually major in American Cultural Studies and they have programs that teach this in some countries. It makes you think of Azn Studies programs in an entirely different way, thinking about professors lecturing on Larry The Cable Guy or Nascar or whatever. Do students write papers on The Simpsons and South Park like US students do Miyazaki or Kurosawa? I remember writing some bullshit papers in Takashi Miike. Do Japanese students study the work of Keanu Reeves with utmost seriousity? I think you need to read or listen to some Zizek.
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Feb 3, 2014 14:21
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VideoTapir posted:I think you need to read or listen to some Zizek. Just get really high on something, drink four gallons of baijiu, and read anything by Hegel and Lacan. It'll be about the same experience.
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Feb 3, 2014 14:23
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Donraj posted:In other news, CTLC has elected to not screw me over and provide an official letter stating that my TEFL certificate meets Hong Kong Education Bureau standards. They assured me it would be mailed to me Friday. So maybe the NET thing will work out. Or the fellowship to study at CUHK I applied for (and will not hear word on until the end of April). We'll see. Been interested in this for a while. Are you looking Primary or secondary? Seems like a lot of different criteria are needed that really affects your pay.
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Feb 3, 2014 15:29
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Serious post: europa report felt amateurish and the crew behaved like caricatures of sad people.
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Feb 3, 2014 16:17
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Arglebargle III posted:Serious post: europa report felt amateurish and the crew behaved like caricatures of sad people. It wasn't high budget and yeah, the cast might have gone a bit overboard with the "we need to resemble real people and real people are boring so let's be boring" angle, but generally I thought it was a pretty good stab at hard sci-fi. I'm about to watch Gravity right now, so we'll see how it compares.
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Feb 3, 2014 16:27
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The SADness really got to me. Sad people express sadness in a lot of ways and don't outwardly act sad all the time. The Europa Report crew respond to tragedy by being morose for the whole loving movie.
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Feb 3, 2014 16:52
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blinkyzero posted:It wasn't high budget and yeah, the cast might have gone a bit overboard with the "we need to resemble real people and real people are boring so let's be boring" angle, but generally I thought it was a pretty good stab at hard sci-fi. I'm about to watch Gravity right now, so we'll see how it compares. Gravity was pretty good but didn't quite live up to the hype.
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Feb 3, 2014 16:56
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VideoTapir posted:Maybe if employers gave raises and promotions to the employees they have they wouldn't have this problem. I don't feel this is an aspect unique to China in any way, but rather a function of larger systems. In the international companies (even when really localized) and the large Chinese entrepreneurs this is not the problem. They have thrown money at it with little effect. This is less true for SOEs, but still true to some extent. The upside of this is that it means there is a population of middle-classish folk who simply don't buy into the mythologies of meritocracy from the western ideology or the traditional company loyalty and paternalism of Asian corporate culture. The strategy of just throwing money and promotions at the problem just creates a market place for this, rather than handling it. The Venerable and Inscrutable Colonel models are a product of globalization, it seems to me, though readily accepted and manifestly successful within an artificial set of measures. The same is true for the policy driven land consolidation that has been taking place for the past several years in China, for instance. One downside of these is that they destroy social fabric in the name of efficiency, which is in turn simply model of profit maximization and consolidation. Not only are such costs not measured they are actively ignored and rationalized away often in the form of false charity or some such ideology. The costs and risks are in many cases actively and strategically deleted in practice. That means they are more or less an investment in institutionalized suffering and oppression. I was involved in quite a few of the early conversations about the practice of land consolidation. Really discussing or considering the relatively predictable effects that are now occurring as a result of the successful consolidation was mostly impossible. The entrepreneurs I know in China that have been successful with this retention question have explicitly created layers of social capital throughout their endeavor. One interesting example I know of in 20 or so cities has to do with the on site food at large assets in those cities. The company has created coalitions of organic farmers proximal to all its sites. The farmers collaborate with the site kitchens to plan and provide all the food for all employees for free if they wish. This isn't just a benefit having to do with high quality free food, but is an active investment in the local community as well. That particular company had done several things along these lines and has almost no attrition across a large, relatively diverse employee base. There are several surprising examples of Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) in China that seem authentic and have a similar effect, even though that is not typically the intent. Typically I despise CSR, since it is usually just a rhetorical strategy that actually allows the corporation to maintain some set of manifestly irresponsible practices. The counter examples are few and far between in my experience. I know a few interesting people in Beijing who work in these areas if you are ever interested in meeting them. One thing that might be interesting to go observe is a small endeavor that uses open space process and conflict mediation to effect policy and planning at the district and community level, mostly in Beijing. In some ways it is very simple, humble work. In other ways it strikes me as quite profound. I have done some training for them and the cultural acquisition of these things looks very different than it does elsewhere in the world and that is also interesting. I also know some people who are working on systems theory and questions of social capital in a variety of ways, mostly as consultants or in small organizations. There are also a couple of interesting alternative schools ranging from full-on traditional Confucianist pedagogy to combining basic STEM disciplines with Yellow Hat Tibetan dharma debate (which is not unlike the Socratic method and develops a kind of critical thinking). The same set of folks are also involved with some of the Chinese NGO's and their work and approach is interesting. There is likely no money to be made or "jobs" to be had in any of these endeavors since they are not purposed toward that in any significant way. They might be interesting to encounter for perspective though, whether or not you like what any of them are doing. I am not in as frequent communication with many of them as I was when I was spending several months a year in China, but I can likely get you in contact if you want.
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Feb 3, 2014 17:44
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Let me think about this for a while. I don't know why, but I usually find your posts more confusing than reading Husserl. No offense intended. I'm curious: where are you from and what's your academic background? blinkyzero fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 18:10
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I am a product of US culture, but have lived most of my adult life outside the US. I have lived or worked in something like 45 different countries. It so happens that I currently work in academia by way of NSF grants I co-authored in order to investigate something. I am in no way an academic though people seem to think I am from time to time. This being the case what I have studied or pretended to learn and the application of that is a bit hard to categorize without a whole narrative. Its not exactly some degree or even something easily categorized as a particular discipline. In general I work to design and implement change in complex human systems, and have done for a couple of decades now. For many years the way I do that has been to build the capacity in such systems to do those things themselves while also functioning as an active collaborator in the design and realization process. This draws on a lot of different things and some particular models of reality as well as theories about the nature of models and modeling. I have written extensively about that, but apparently it is mostly poorly written and inaccessible. I am not terribly interested in publishing and my writing serves my purposes so I am not particularly moved to do something about all that, even given the known effects of my apparently irredeemable character flaws. I have written and published a bit here and there. I write a lot and always have. This seems to have done nothing to improve the quality or generosity of my writing. I am told I am no less confusing in person, but altogether more effective. I don't really know if that is true or not. Occasionally I am graced with collaborators in way that something else happens. Which is all to say, don't worry, its not you and I apologize. Thank you for asking. Sogol fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 19:40
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(He's a consultant.)
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Feb 3, 2014 19:56
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Arglebargle III posted:(He's a consultant.) Indeed that is the easiest thing to say and has some truth to it, but I have had no institutional affiliation of any sort for many years and my work and life do not match the picture that "consultant" conjures for most people, especially consultants.
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Feb 3, 2014 19:59
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Blinky asked two simple questions that should have had like one-word answers. Could've answered the academic background one in less than ten, easily. With Sogol we get around one thousand.
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Feb 3, 2014 23:27
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Isn't a ten word answer, certainly not a transparent one. Maybe this... Where are you from? I don't know. What is your academic background? I don't have one. Helpful? Sogol fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 23:30
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Sogol is p cool imo
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Feb 3, 2014 23:54
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Sogol, international man of mystery.
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Feb 4, 2014 00:05
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Sogol is "logos" spelt backwards.
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Feb 4, 2014 01:39
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Bloodnose posted:Blinky asked two simple questions that should have had like one-word answers. Could've answered the academic background one in less than ten, easily. AND NO PICTURES.
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Feb 4, 2014 01:43
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GuestBob posted:Sogol is "logos" spelt backwards. So if logos, the Word, is good (for in the beginning there was the word and the word was good), that means Sogol is the Devil!
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Feb 4, 2014 02:26
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On a scale of "waiting in a train station for seven hours for the next train to Nanjing" to "watching two street sweepers screaming at each other with a person in a Mickey Mouse outfit behind me watching as well", I would give Sogol "early 20something woman freaking out at her mother in public at a mall" level of interesting, IMHO.
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Feb 4, 2014 03:10
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Sogol can't be this thread's Satan, since Satan means adversary and he's not nearly adversarial enough. No, that title can only go to the true darkness on the face of the deep: The Worst Muslim.
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Feb 4, 2014 03:12
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Dammit... Turned down for both King and Satan. What's left to live for?
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Feb 4, 2014 03:28
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Ceciltron posted:So if logos, the Word, is good (for in the beginning there was the word and the word was good), that means Sogol is the Devil! I logos is the word then Sogol is the drow.
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Feb 4, 2014 03:38
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blinkyzero posted:Sogol can't be this thread's Satan, since Satan means adversary and he's not nearly adversarial enough. You just made me cum
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Feb 4, 2014 03:55
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Sogol posted:Dammit... Turned down for both King and Satan. What's left to live for? Professor Emeritus.
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Feb 4, 2014 08:13
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blinkyzero posted:Just get really high on something, drink four gallons of baijiu, and read anything by Hegel and Lacan. It'll be about the same experience. If by Hegel you mean "this thread" it basically explains my day so far.
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Feb 4, 2014 08:39
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Is it possible to restart a china unicom monthly plan early. For example, I got a 500 MB plan for 36 Rmb with 1 Rmb per MB overage. Is there a way for me to start my plan again by paying 36 Rmb right now?
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Feb 4, 2014 10:19
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Allaniis posted:Is it possible to restart a china unicom monthly plan early. For example, I got a 500 MB plan for 36 Rmb with 1 Rmb per MB overage. Is there a way for me to start my plan again by paying 36 Rmb right now? What do you mean exactly? The way it would work is they just take money out of what you have on your account. If you've already gone over for the month I don't think there's any way to "restart" the plan short of going down there, canceling your account and starting a new one.
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Feb 4, 2014 10:51
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Allaniis posted:Is it possible to restart a china unicom monthly plan early. For example, I got a 500 MB plan for 36 Rmb with 1 Rmb per MB overage. Is there a way for me to start my plan again by paying 36 Rmb right now? You should be able to buy add-on packages... text 703 to 10010 and see what your options are. Should be 100, 300, and 500 MB packages to choose from, costing 10, 20, and 30 RMB respectively And then there is some way to tack on more data to your monthly plan, via yet another text code, but for the life of me, I can't remember it right now http://www.bloga.asia/china-unicom-3gnet-settings-and-discount-codes/ The 703 codes are things you can buy once a month to (hopefully) avoid those overage charges. The KT3GLL codes are things you add-on to your existing plan until it is cancelled. Monkey Fury fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Feb 4, 2014 |
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Feb 4, 2014 11:11
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Sogol posted:In much of the urban job market employers struggle with retention of employees. This is because one of the most common ways to get promoted or increase salary is to move laterally or diagonally between companies. This was simply common practice and companies with high retention were the exception. This is still true in IT and Finance industries. Everyone just does the Ninja Gaiden wall-jumping move, but with salaries. GuestBob posted:I'd like to think that goons are (on average) slightly more socially functional than your average backpacking ESL teacher. Aaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha haha etc. GuestBob posted:It's weird, but a small college in Henan has given me more power to make connections and develop programs than I ever had in the comparable university admin role I held in the UK. And that's only because of the people who are managing operations (which now includes me, thanks to the same principle). Being inconsequential may be why you and the college have this much freedom.
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Feb 4, 2014 11:19
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LentThem posted:Being inconsequential may be why you and the college have this much freedom. Well obviously I wouldn't have the same kind of job if I worked in a P211 university but there's nothing wrong with having a larger role in a smaller place. There's plenty of colleges which are just as inconsequential as ours that don't have expanding language degree programs and international partnerships so I am confident that forward thinking plays a role here. Case in point: we now run the spoken element of the TEM4, one of only 10% of universities in China which do so. To make changes like that you have to be willing to try new things and alot of places really aren't. But yeah, okay, I'll stop being chirpy. I get chirpy sometimes. Chirp, chirp. LentThem posted:Aaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha  Most goons are okay I think.
GuestBob fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Feb 4, 2014 |
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Feb 4, 2014 11:59
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