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Please upload these SGFs to http://eidogo.com/, an endgame screenshot doesn't tell us anything!
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Feb 3, 2014 14:09
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| # ? May 12, 2024 23:25 |
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lol at legendary jump macaque
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Feb 3, 2014 14:19
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oiseaux morts 1994 posted:Please upload these SGFs to http://eidogo.com/, an endgame screenshot doesn't tell us anything! http://eidogo.com/#url:http://files.gokgs.com/games/2014/2/3/b5shadow-Kheldragar.sgf Please don't laugh at my shameful play. 
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Feb 3, 2014 14:21
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Both those kos were completely pointless; but I'm glad you seem so keen to start them because most people get scared.
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Feb 3, 2014 14:55
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Kheldragar posted:[url]http://eidogo.com/#url:http://files.gokgs.com/games/2014/2/3/b5shadow-Kheldragar.sgf[/url] General comments: Don't invade prematurely. Don't defend useless stones. Get better at L&D. I know that ko fights are fun, but stop looking for them everywhere. Your two biggest blunders come about by trying to get into a ko fight when your opponent has no need to fight the ko in order to completely wreck your position. Specific comments (including critiques of White's play too, not just yours): http://eidogo.com/#4slSE2WTs
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Feb 3, 2014 16:50
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xopods posted:General comments: On turn 13 white attaches to attack black's premature invasion. What would a better point of attack have been, and why? O3? N4? L2? My guess would be N4, since it'd push black toward the edge more. I'm just unsure where to go to ensure the black group is pulverized rather than carving out a chunk of territory. e: learned how to select other review lines, saw that you listed O5. Got it. Sacrifice some territory to create better walls around other territory?
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Feb 3, 2014 19:34
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Pander posted:e: learned how to select other review lines, saw that you listed O5. Got it. Sacrifice some territory to create better walls around other territory? O5 is not the only possible way to attack, but yeah. When you build a framework, the idea is not to take the whole thing as territory, unless your opponent really refuses to invade ever. The point is to force your opponent to invade and then turn part of the framework into solid territory and/or build thickness facing other parts of the board while attacking the invading stones. Beginners have a tendency to overestimate how close to becoming solid territory a framework is, and therefore: (a) panic when they see the opponent getting one and dive in right away, and (b) also panic when the opponent invades their framework, as if this is something unexpected and they have to now kill the invading stones in order to "keep" their "territory." As far as the specific way to attack, if you just make it a general rule never to attach directly to a weak stone, that's a step in the right direction. Meanwhile, capping plays (like O5 in the variation I gave) in which you play directly above the invading stone, but with one space separating the two, are rarely the worst way to attack and fairly often the best. "The opponent's good move is your good move," and a one-space jump towards the centre of the board is often the best way to run away... so if that's the best way for the opponent to run away, playing on that point is probably also a good way to stop him from running away. xopods fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 21:30
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xopods posted:
This is exactly why I did what I did. Also that L&D in the top was really tricky I think; usually I tend to avoid making empty triangles in all situations, and it never looked like that would be the variation to kill. I thought he could get two eyes for sure anyways.
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Feb 4, 2014 01:26
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This was a very satisfying win for me, http://eidogo.com/#3gTd5OoFN I'm sure lots of mistakes were made, but it felt good to defend against his invasion, then turn it around and eat up his territory so bad that he quit.
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Feb 4, 2014 01:55
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uranus posted:This was a very satisfying win for me, http://eidogo.com/#3gTd5OoFN To be honest, white's second move is a huge mistake in and of itself. I don't necessarily blame you for taking all of the star points at that point though; what's white going to do, take all of that centre territory? Yes, that's exactly what he tries to do.
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Feb 4, 2014 02:07
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Kheldragar posted:To be honest, white's second move is a huge Yeah I wasnt sure if I was missing something. i thought that was a terrible strategy... guess I was right!
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Feb 4, 2014 02:17
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uranus posted:Yeah I wasnt sure if I was missing something. i thought that was a terrible strategy... guess I was right! I mean, hell, I opened up an sgf editor to find out what the score would be if black took all the centre and white got all of the third line territory. (In nice, neat boxes.) The score ends up being W 142.5 B 121. So, even if the centre isn't reduced one bit, white still has the score advantage. 56 white stones to 48 black stones. So, I mean, you know...
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Feb 4, 2014 13:57
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Really happy this thread is pretty active now! Just started playing some go again after a ~1 year hiatus and I'm rediscovering why I loved it in the first place. Maybe I'll even make the push to dan now. I'm usually on as "sent" in kgs. For any of you with iphones, would you have any recommendations of good apps or ways to study on the phone? I downloaded the goproblems app which is pretty nice, but it might also be cool to review pro games or go through some famous problem sets like cho's encyclopedia of life and death on my commute.
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Feb 4, 2014 17:24
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SmartGo Kifu is worth every penny.
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Feb 4, 2014 18:04
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Does anyone else get loads of error messages when running the KGS client? It works but is a bit annoying e: Also how should I be before trying to play on Tygem? distortion park fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Feb 4, 2014 |
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Feb 4, 2014 21:20
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I don't get any errors running the KGS client, what kind are you seeing and what OS / java version are you running? Be Tygem
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Feb 4, 2014 23:07
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pointsofdata posted:e: Also how should I be before trying to play on Tygem? You should be ready to counter Koreans playing the game. I heard you should just be safe and let their overplays come to bite them in the rear end eventually.
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Feb 5, 2014 01:00
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the idea that you should change your play style ahead of time to fit what people say about a server is a bit silly. Take each game as it comes and respond to each opponent in the most suitable fashion, to the best of your knowledge. 9 times out of 10 you wouldn't have concentration to deliberately alter your natural game because 'lol Koreans r aggressive'
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Feb 5, 2014 08:58
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haha I meant how good do you need to be, but it was a faintly amusing typo. It's a bunch of Java errors on win8, I have Java 7.
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Feb 5, 2014 11:53
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http://gogameguru.com/go-commentary-lee-sedol-vs-gu-li-jubango-game-1/ Jubango commentary for Game 1 is up, GGG is also going to publish a book of all the jubango commentaries next year!
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Feb 5, 2014 13:40
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Inimitable: Gu Li vs Lee Sedol
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Feb 5, 2014 15:44
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Kheldragar posted:This is exactly why I did what I did. Also that L&D in the top was really tricky I think; usually I tend to avoid making empty triangles in all situations, and it never looked like that would be the variation to kill. I thought he could get two eyes for sure anyways. There are other things you could try that don't work, but at least they don't work in a non-obvious fashion and your opponent could screw up the defense. The more important point is that that second line hane doesn't gain much except endgame profit and leads to an easy-to-read variation where your opponent lives in two moves. Heuristically speaking, if your opponent's eyespace is less than ten points and it's all in one big clump and not a curvy or stretched out shape, there may be a way to kill and it's worth investigating rather than playing moves that settle the position. The killing move might be some kind of throw-in or placement, or a descent (as here), or a first-line hane... second-line hanes don't usually kill unless the opponent has shape defects that allow you to make an internal atari after he blocks and before you connect.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:18
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Kheldragar posted:To be honest, white's second move is a huge It's not a huge mistake. Fuseki mistakes are rarely huge mistakes. The difference between a side hoshi and a corner hoshi on a relatively empty board is at most one point. Giving up one point for no reason in a dan-level game would be a big mistake, but it barely matters for DDKs. This is why I told you not to worry about fuseki for now and work on fighting. The empty triangle at W20, by comparison, is probably at least a 10-point error, an order of magnitude more serious. EDIT: Also, note that if White understood his own fuseki, he would not be seeking centre territory, but rather a fighting-oriented game. You don't play stones inside an area where you want territory, you play them around the edges. If you want a central moyo, play fourth and fifth line stones. Tengen and other central moves are for fighting power, because the centre of the board is where weak groups run to when they're under attack. Power in the centre gives you a lifeline for your own weak groups and a threat to your opponents'. C.F. Experimental openings like the Great Wall for fighting and Upper Manchurian Fuseki for a giant central moyo. Also, violent, killing-oriented SDKs and dans on KGS love the Big Cross, which I don't see on Sensei's, but which consists of opening at tengen as Black and then taking all four side hoshis while your opponent takes the four corners. Then you have whole-board connectivity and your opponent has four separated groups right off the bat, and you can just attack everything. xopods fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 16:21
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Xopods whens the next lesson?
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Feb 5, 2014 22:35
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uranus posted:Xopods whens the next lesson? I could do one tomorrow night. 7:30 PM as usual.
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Feb 6, 2014 04:34
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sweeeet
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Feb 6, 2014 05:04
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sensual donkey punching posted:Inimitable: Gu Li vs Lee Sedol Incircumscriptible: Gu Li vs Lee Sedol
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Feb 6, 2014 12:31
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xopods posted:I could do one tomorrow night. 7:30 PM as usual. Does Friday seem like a better date to you?
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Feb 6, 2014 12:36
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Kheldragar posted:Does Friday seem like a better date to you? Given that Friday is my wife's birthday, I'm going to go with "no."
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Feb 6, 2014 16:12
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xopods posted:Given that Friday is my wife's birthday, I'm going to go with "no." Sounds like a date to me.  Do you have any idea what topic you'll cover today?
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Feb 6, 2014 16:17
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uranus posted:sweeeet Sorry I'm taking forever in our game. Prediction: You win by a lot.
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Feb 6, 2014 17:19
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Kheldragar posted:Sounds like a date to me. I want to start talking about direction of play, but it's hard to do that in the abstract, so I'm going to review my first game from the 2007 Quebec Omnium tournament, at the peak of my "career." Between me (4d at the time) and a 5d. Although there's a certain amount of fighting, it's not too wacky. It's got good examples of directional choices, good and bad shape, attacking for profit, counting the score and making a positional judgment, a cool tesuji and counter-tesuji later on, etc. Good game with lots to learn. Alas, I blundered for about 6 points in endgame and lost by about that much. Maybe would have won by 0.5 or 1.5 otherwise, it was that close.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:56
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7:30 what time zone?
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Feb 6, 2014 22:33
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EST, the only time zone that matters. 
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Feb 6, 2014 22:42
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I'll be rock-climbing. Shame, I'd be kinda interesting in seeing a pro-game breakdown.
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Feb 6, 2014 22:59
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xopods posted:EST, the only time zone that matters. Don't you mean GMT? 
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Feb 6, 2014 23:08
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Pander posted:I'll be rock-climbing. Shame, I'd be kinda interesting in seeing a pro-game breakdown. I am far from a pro. But anyway, if people like this one I have several other game records from my heyday that I could review in future weeks. (And if I run out of those, there are also also my DGS games which, due to the pace, tend to be of much higher quality than my KGS games).
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Feb 6, 2014 23:17
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xopods posted:I am far from a pro. I think 4d vs 3d sounds pro to some people.  (yes I'm probably in that group)
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Feb 6, 2014 23:18
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silvergoose posted:I think 4d vs 3d sounds pro to some people. Well, the thing about Go ranks is that each stone strength has a linear effect on the expected outcome of the game - that's how ranks are designed - but especially once you get into the amateur dan ranks, the amount of knowledge, practice, discipline and raw talent needed for each rank goes up exponentially. It took me about a year of dedicated practice to get to 1d, then another 6 months to get to 2d, then a year after that to get to 3d, then over two more years to get to 4d, and after that I didn't feel I was getting stronger anymore, because I'd hit the limit of my ability to concentrate... additional knowledge wasn't helping because I was being held back by blunders more than anything else. Getting into Go later in life, it's essentially impossible to achieve pro-level strength. All the stuff you need to know to be an amateur dan, you have to have absorbed by the time you're 10 or 12, when your mind is still malleable, so that it becomes second nature. Then maybe you can start to aspire to the sort of mastery these guys have. So yeah, on the one hand I am (or was, at my peak) only about 6 stones behind the top players in the world, whereas I could easily give 9 stones to someone who could give 9 stones to someone who could give 9 stones to a beginner. On the other hand, you're comparing a guy who did this as a hobby for five or six years to people who showed exceptional talent from an incredibly young age (most start at, like, 4-6) and then dedicated their entire lives to the game on a full time basis. It's the difference between your friend who can play All Along the Watchtower pretty well on his acoustic and Jimmy loving Hendrix.
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Feb 6, 2014 23:52
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And then comparing to me, who can play a few chords, comparing to someone who has never touched a string instrument. Makes sense.
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Feb 7, 2014 00:01
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