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It is, however, a direct sequel to a gamecube game which you can't play on the WiiU. So probably not a great recommendation either way.
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Feb 3, 2014 19:45
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Cake Attack posted:It is, however, a direct sequel to a gamecube game which you can't play on the WiiU. So probably not a great recommendation either way. I played RD long before I ever played PoR and while certainly having the PoR background is nice, it's hardly essential to enjoying the game as it is.
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Feb 3, 2014 19:46
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Levantine posted:This is dumb and false. It's a mess but it's a beautiful mess. It tries a lot and not all of it works and the game may be too big for its own good but it's not even close to a bad game. It would be really, really good if they thought it out a little better. I still love the game in spite of its flaws - admittedly, though, at least some part of that is liking how BEXP with capped stats makes any unit who can cap stats usable. Its biggest sin is easily the availability thing, which admittedly sucks. I similarly played RD before PoR and it was fine. It made the ending of PoR take on a very different light than was probably intended, though!
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Feb 3, 2014 19:55
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Just read the LP if it worries you that much. At the very least you should be familiar with the intro cast.
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Feb 3, 2014 19:58
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Inspector Zenigata fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 20:00
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Hi I was just reminded in a roundabout way and would like to talk about how terrible 4 Heroes of Light is. You know what was poo poo about it? The scaling. gently caress that. Especially since you get an item that increases XP gain, which essentially makes the game harder. I think I was close to max level, and the final boss could one-shot my entire team in a single hit. To beat him, I would have had to finish all four of the optional dungeons in order to upgrade my armor to the highest level, which required an excessive amount of grinding for gems (which enemies drop, which upgrade armor), and also these optional dungeons were much, much harder because I was at a higher level. gently caress that. Anyway, Fire Emblem as a series is something I have trouble with - I actually find I dislike tactics games that have a linear set of battles, with pauses in between for 'camp' or whatever. I don't know why, but I think it has to do with the fact that every battle is the highest-stakes battle thus far, and so there's never any real downtime in the gameplay (except for some dialogue). I see that they're good games, but I just really dislike that sort of high-stakes-all-the-time pacing, and I wonder if I'm the only one in that regard.
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Feb 3, 2014 20:03
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Judging by the success of FE:A, which edges away from the scarcity model that most of the other Fire Emblems use, you most likely aren't the only one. Also I liked 4 heroes of light to an extent (I think I quit halfway through the final dungeon) but then again I didn't grind at all so that's probably why.
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Feb 3, 2014 20:10
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Morpheus posted:Hi I was just reminded in a roundabout way and would like to talk about how terrible 4 Heroes of Light is. I'm sure it titillated everyone who obsesses over PRO HARDCORE GAMER CHALLENGE in their JRPGs, though. As far as I was concerned, it was a lot of bullshit and forced me to have a very specific class loadout so I could make it to the 80th floor in those lovely towers. I play RPGs for inverse difficulty curves, so while 4HL was a cute game and I had fun turning into a dog and talking to the NPCs, it remains one of the most tiring and unenjoyable gameplay experiences I've ever had the displeasure of purchasing.
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Feb 3, 2014 20:11
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01011001 posted:Judging by the success of FE:A, which edges away from the scarcity model that most of the other Fire Emblems use, you most likely aren't the only one. I liked it, found it a little challenging, until the final boss that wiped my team in two turns. That's when I looked things up and found about the level scaling. Tried to beat the extra dungeons for about a week, and found I just wasn't having fun after that.
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Feb 3, 2014 20:11
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Inspector Zenigata fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 20:14
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Has level scaling ever actually worked well in an RPG?
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Feb 3, 2014 20:34
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Inspector Zenigata fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 20:35
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I'm about to dive into Final Fantasy 13-2 for the first time in preperation for Lightning Returns. Any advice as I begin my journey?
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Feb 3, 2014 20:39
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GrandpaPants posted:Has level scaling ever actually worked well in an RPG? It's a legit question and I can't think of a single example where the answer is yes. I'm not sure why it keeps getting thrown out there as a balacing mechanic because it's never makes anything feel balanced and you as a player never really feel more powerful at any point in the game. In fact, it almost always ends up stacked against the player and you have the above example from Four Heroes of Light with final bosses that can one shot parties.
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Feb 3, 2014 20:40
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CubeTheory posted:I'm about to dive into Final Fantasy 13-2 for the first time in preperation for Lightning Returns. Any advice as I begin my journey? Don't grind or you will end up overpowered since the game is kinda easy. One of the first areas have a clockwork sentinel you can recruit which should last you for quite a while as a tank class.
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Feb 3, 2014 20:41
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Inspector Zenigata fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 20:42
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CubeTheory posted:I'm about to dive into Final Fantasy 13-2 for the first time in preperation for Lightning Returns. Any advice as I begin my journey? Someone in the FF thread recommended this as a gimmick run and I'd give it a shot: Do not level your characters unless you get stuck or lose a fight. Since it's so easy to redo fights this isn't a big problem but will give you a chance to avoid hilariously overleveling everything in the game.
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Feb 3, 2014 20:45
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The Suikoden games have EXP scaling based on level; the conceit is that it's supposed to make it easy to catch up characters that are behind. The soft level cap for any area is exceedingly generous, however, so it works in your favor as you'll end up outclassing the enemies long before EXP gains become worthless. It's not great, but it's most definitely not bad, either.
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Feb 3, 2014 20:47
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Levantine posted:It's a legit question and I can't think of a single example where the answer is yes. I'm not sure why it keeps getting thrown out there as a balacing mechanic because it's never makes anything feel balanced and you as a player never really feel more powerful at any point in the game. In fact, it almost always ends up stacked against the player and you have the above example from Four Heroes of Light with final bosses that can one shot parties. The reason it's put in is because developers don't have to scale things themselves - they can just assign an algorithm on how strong the enemies should be based on the players, and not figure out how strong the players should be for a given location (which is more work). Balancing is tough. Coughing Hobo posted:The Suikoden games have EXP scaling based on level; the conceit is that it's supposed to make it easy to catch up characters that are behind. The soft level cap for any area is exceedingly generous, however, so it works in your favor as you'll end up outclassing the enemies long before EXP gains become worthless. It's not great, but it's most definitely not bad, either. You need character-based scaling in a game like Suikoden though, or any game where you have a proliferation of characters, or a limited amount of time to grind them (see: Persona 3 and 4)
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Feb 3, 2014 20:55
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level scaling in ff8 is cool because you can easily game the card system and have super powerful characters and just breeze through all the dumb battles or even turn them off so that you can experience the great story of ff8 up until the first disk is over and then the rest of the story until you throw the game out the f*#&$ing window at disk 4. edit: i forgot to talk about the level scaling of ff8 in this post. sorry. GulagDolls fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 20:59
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I like the way the enemy scaling works in Minstral Song and The Last Remnant because they are pretty deliberate anti-grinding mechanisms. Essentially both games reward you for avoiding getting into too many random battles (which both games give you several mechanics to help you do so). Of course it would really help if either of the games actually told you that at any point, but you know how the SaGa series is about telling you poo poo. And yeah I like the scaling in FF8 because it means you just get Encounter None and can beat that lovely game as quickly as possible. Nehrim hit the enemy scaling pretty drat well as far as TES-related games goes. Areas are marked with a min/max level range that the enemies will scale to. And it uses a more traditional XP system so you don't level up the enemies by increasing your speechcraft too much or other dumb problems that Oblivion was prone to. Gwyrgyn Blood fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 21:07
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Yeah, I was going to say that the scaling in Mass Effect 2 and 3 is pretty good and challenge is pretty consistent, but that's because those are really shooting games more than just RPGs and leveling up is mostly just getting new buttons to push or making old buttons better rather than getting tougher. There's not really anything that oneshots you unless you sit on a grenade after your shield goes down on the maximum difficulty. I remember thinking that playing on Insanity in ME1 increased XP rewards, and trying to play from level 1 on Insanity made the first few missions hard as balls!
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Feb 3, 2014 21:11
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Levantine posted:This is dumb and false. It's a mess but it's a beautiful mess. It tries a lot and not all of it works and the game may be too big for its own good but it's not even close to a bad game. It's a terrible mess, more like. It tries a lot of things, and the things that fail manage to fail so hard that it tanks the quality of the entire game. Like split armies. Split armies led to the existence of the Dawn Brigade. gently caress the Dawn Brigade.
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Feb 3, 2014 21:15
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King of Solomon posted:It's a terrible mess, more like. It tries a lot of things, and the things that fail manage to fail so hard that it tanks the quality of the entire game. We will just have to agree to disagree on that point. I love the Dawn Brigade stages - I think they are some of the best and most varied in the game. No, they are not as beefy as the Greil Mercs (well some of them, and only til later in the game), but that an intentional thematic choice and I appreciate the game had the balls to roll with it. The split army thing was nice, in my opinion, because it allowed you to play with all the huge number of recruits in an organic fashion before choosing your final party unlike many FE games that just flood your reserves with units you wont use since you get them too late or whatever. The Dawn Brigade is especially helpful for this - every body is needed. The other thing I like about RD is that it's the last Fire Emblem to have honest to god terrain. Not just forest tile, rock tile, etc, but actual varied levels to maps with stairways and chokepoints and walls to defend and all sorts of stuff. I love Awakening for a lot of reasons but I think it lacks a lot of that detail.
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Feb 3, 2014 21:30
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Levantine posted:We will just have to agree to disagree on that point. I love the Dawn Brigade stages - I think they are some of the best and most varied in the game. No, they are not as beefy as the Greil Mercs (well some of them, and only til later in the game), but that an intentional thematic choice and I appreciate the game had the balls to roll with it. Thematically it's appropriate. From a purely gameplay perspective it is intensely frustrating to be stuck using an army almost exclusively composed of very bad units. If it was a better game, it would have mixed things up better so that the armies were, if nothing else, reasonably balanced. It's even worse because the hardest maps in the game are the earliest maps, so the difficulty is all out of wack. The fact that it's a sequel to PoR, which was an exceptional game, doesn't help. quote:The split army thing was nice, in my opinion, because it allowed you to play with all the huge number of recruits in an organic fashion before choosing your final party unlike many FE games that just flood your reserves with units you wont use since you get them too late or whatever. The Dawn Brigade is especially helpful for this - every body is needed. Yeah, again, this would be fine if the army balance was better. It wasn't, so it drags the game way down. quote:The other thing I like about RD is that it's the last Fire Emblem to have honest to god terrain. Not just forest tile, rock tile, etc, but actual varied levels to maps with stairways and chokepoints and walls to defend and all sorts of stuff. I love Awakening for a lot of reasons but I think it lacks a lot of that detail. No disagreement there. Another thing I actually like about RD (and wish they'd bring back) is the third class tier. Third tier units were really powerful and an absolute blast to use, it's a shame it's more or less restricted to this one game. EDIT: Regardless of the quality of the game as a whole, he really shouldn't play it until he has more experience with Fire Emblem games. King of Solomon fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 21:37
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Radiant Dawn also has Snipers that are well worth using and Crossbows!! I miss crossbows. EDIT: and I also love the third tier promotions.
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Feb 3, 2014 21:43
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Inspector Zenigata fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 21:44
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Inspector Zenigata posted:She, and thanks for the suggestions. Anything else I should look into, or is that the extent of the good RPGs on the Wii/U? Xenoblade is the best of the best and it will take you a long rear end time to finish it if you get the explorer's bug. There is just a metric ton to do in that game and by the time I was done I felt myself wishing there was more to do.
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Feb 3, 2014 21:47
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Levantine posted:It's a legit question and I can't think of a single example where the answer is yes. I'm not sure why it keeps getting thrown out there as a balacing mechanic because it's never makes anything feel balanced and you as a player never really feel more powerful at any point in the game. In fact, it almost always ends up stacked against the player and you have the above example from Four Heroes of Light with final bosses that can one shot parties. A lot of classic PC RPGs did it pretty well. Some of the later Wizardries had level scaling that worked pretty well for example, though there were usually limits on how it worked. (ie different areas topped off on what they could throw you) I remember playing one game--I forget which one, I think maybe Knights of Legend?--where you leveled by cashing in your EXP for weapon and armor skills or something and they would scale enemies so that they'd have combat skills roughly on par with yours too.
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Feb 3, 2014 21:51
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Coughing Hobo posted:The Suikoden games have EXP scaling based on level; the conceit is that it's supposed to make it easy to catch up characters that are behind. The soft level cap for any area is exceedingly generous, however, so it works in your favor as you'll end up outclassing the enemies long before EXP gains become worthless. It's not great, but it's most definitely not bad, either. Scaling the power of enemies can work fine, if there's hard upper and lower limits so you can still have areas too hard for you and also the ability to outlevel things if you have to. Mass Effect 1 worked okay I guess, but it also never really felt like I was fighting things that were outright tougher, just that all their numbers had gone up at the same rate mine had. Which certainly beats "I leveled up: I have now lost group on the power arms race, gently caress"
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Feb 3, 2014 21:55
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The best part about the Suikoden leveling system is that in the first two, if you got the right battle with an underleveled character, you could gain like 30-60 levels in one fight. So instead of tweaking the leveling system for 3-5, they just capped the number of levels you could gain per fight (10).
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Feb 3, 2014 22:06
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Zereth posted:Scaling the power of enemies can work fine, if there's hard upper and lower limits so you can still have areas too hard for you and also the ability to outlevel things if you have to. Mass Effect 1 worked okay I guess, but it also never really felt like I was fighting things that were outright tougher, just that all their numbers had gone up at the same rate mine had. Which certainly beats "I leveled up: I have now lost group on the power arms race, gently caress" But I guess that's partially because it's a "closed progression" game: you only go forwards and any time you backtrack, they're all talky areas so you don't get TES problems like Bandits in Glass Armor chillin' around the prison you escaped from at the beginning of the game.
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Feb 4, 2014 03:13
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The White Dragon posted:But I guess that's partially because it's a "closed progression" game: you only go forwards and any time you backtrack, they're all talky areas so you don't get TES problems like Bandits in Glass Armor chillin' around the prison you escaped from at the beginning of the game.
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Feb 4, 2014 03:35
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Inspector Zenigata posted:Anything else I should look into, or is that the extent of the good RPGs on the Wii/U? If you can tolerate anime, Luminous Arc might be worth looking into. It's pretty similar to Tales games in concept, but battles are more like Skies of Arcadia. Boss fights are actually really challenging too. Most people say its biggest flaw is its voice acting. Don't let the weird opening scene put ya off, though.
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Feb 4, 2014 03:57
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The chapters where you had a ridiculously weak army were the best part of FE10. There was actual strategy and tactics in that poo poo, not just running forward and hitting attack like a lot of FE games devolve into by the mid-to-late game. EDIT: Also, poster above, sure you aren't thinking of something else? Luminous Arc is a series of strategy RPGs for the DS.
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Feb 4, 2014 04:02
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The Gentlemieu posted:If you can tolerate anime, Luminous Arc might be worth looking into. It's pretty similar to Tales games in concept, but battles are more like Skies of Arcadia. Boss fights are actually really challenging too. I think you mean Arc Rise Fantasia...
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Feb 4, 2014 04:05
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He's thinking of Arc Rise Fantasia. It's got a pretty fun battle system actually, but the voice acting is terrible and the plot underneath it isn't much better. The designs are by the Eureka Seven character designer though, which is fun. One character is basically Anenome.
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Feb 4, 2014 04:06
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I don't like scaling, especially in a game without random encounters (like ME). I like to sometimes return to old areas, maybe to find treasure or something, and find that I am a god in protagonist form, cutting a swath through enemies that previously gave me some trouble.
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Feb 4, 2014 04:31
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Endorph posted:The chapters where you had a ridiculously weak army were the best part of FE10. There was actual strategy and tactics in that poo poo, not just running forward and hitting attack like a lot of FE games devolve into by the mid-to-late game. That still happened, just for different reasons than usual.
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Feb 4, 2014 04:38
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King of Solomon posted:That still happened, just for different reasons than usual. Not to mention the early game is the hardest part of just about every FE game, not just FE10. Play FE9 or FE6 on hard sometime.
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Feb 4, 2014 04:56
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