|
Astro7x posted:Totally agree, but I had both systems and generally bought anything that was on both on the N64 purely because of load times. To be fair, those load screens were probably real. It's likely it was decompressing data or something since the game had to use a bag of tricks in order to cram everything onto a 64MB cart.
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 00:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 11:42 |
|
|
SwissCM posted:To be fair, those load screens were probably real. It's likely it was decompressing data or something since the game had to use a bag of tricks in order to cram everything onto a 64MB cart. I remember reading interviews at the time with Capcom saying that they left them in because they "added to the games suspense" even though they weren't integral to the game anymore for loading purposes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 00:41
|
|
|
fivegears4reverse posted:Short load times don't make up for lacking on Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, Front Mission, Chrono Cross, Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy, Ace Combat, Tekken 1-3, and the list goes on. Ultimately, anything good the N64 had was smothered by all the good the PSOne had. The load time argument, even back then, was reduced to being the last resort of angry console warriors. Load times were important to me as a kid because I wanted to knock out a level of Blast Corps or Goldeneye before school and all of the games you mentioned besides Tekken and maybe Ace Combat need several hours worth of commitment per session. I could name a big ol' list of games too but I don't want to fight V  V
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 00:52
|
|
|
Iwata posted:I believe not many consumers wavered between Wii U and those new consoles from other companies because I believe that our user demographics are different to a certain degree. Today I learned Nintendo is for babies. Babies with $300 to spare.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 01:06
|
|
|
AngryCaterpillar posted:Today I learned Nintendo is for babies. Babies with $300 to spare. Babies with weak-willed parents. quote:we failed to communicate the true value of Wii U, failed to make children persuade their parents to buy our products for them
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 01:23
|
|
|
The "we didn't do a good job at telling people how awesome the WiiU was" angle probably isn't a great one to pursue when the console is a pretty poor bargain compared to everything else out there
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 01:26
|
|
|
Astro7x posted:Screw the haters, I loved cartridges! I could be playing a game of Wayne Gretzky 3d Hockey within seven seconds of powering on the system. I remember it taking 1 1/2 minutes just to get to the title screen on my friends PSX. Say what you want about CDs vs Carts, but that generation had horrible load times on disc based systems. Cartridges were a really stupid move, though, because sure, you had short load times, but you also had very limited space for your games, and the extra production cost was insane. I remember games being 60-70 bucks back in 1997, which comes out to about 85-100 dollars in today's money. That's not for a fancy version, or any extras, that's just for the game. It was a really anti-third party move and that attitude hasn't gone away in the 20 years since.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 01:49
|
|
|
AngryCaterpillar posted:Today I learned Nintendo is for babies. Babies with $300 to spare. But he's right to a certain degree, the wii u had stopped selling long before the new consoles were out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 01:51
|
|
|
Bring back cartridges!
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 02:01
|
|
|
RZA Encryption posted:Bring back cartridges! Get out of here you handheld hippie! 
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 02:05
|
|
|
The GBA should be in the Smithsonian.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 02:21
|
|
|
Ka0 posted:The GBA should be in the Smithsonian. "here lies the final resting place of the see-thru blue Game boy advance, with one copy of Chu-Chu rocket, no amount of blowing the cartridge will get it to work"
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 02:24
|
|
|
icantfindaname posted:Except that they failed by both metrics. The N64 was mildly profitable or break even, the GC lost money, the WiiU is hemorrhaging it. The argument "But they're profitable!!!!!" is bullshit because their consoles aren't actually profitable. Their handhelds are profitable. The N64 was more than mildly profitable. It was their most profitable system up to that point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 02:55
|
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:Cartridges were a really stupid move, though, because sure, you had short load times, but you also had very limited space for your games, and the extra production cost was insane. I remember games being 60-70 bucks back in 1997, which comes out to about 85-100 dollars in today's money. That's not for a fancy version, or any extras, that's just for the game. It was a really anti-third party move and that attitude hasn't gone away in the 20 years since. I completely agree, but try explaining this to my 12 year old self on how any of that poo poo mattered at the time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 03:31
|
|
|
Zack_Gochuck posted:The N64 was more than mildly profitable. It was their most profitable system up to that point. How does this even work? It sold less consoles and less games than the NES. Even then it had a worse attach ratio. You cant even claim something like royalty fees because by then a bunch of third parties were fed up with them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 03:32
|
|
|
fivegears4reverse posted:Treating third parties like garbage during the NES-SNES years came before that, the decision to stick with cartridges only made it easier for companies to not look back. Nintendo has been engineering the situation they face with the Wii U for a long time, on many different levels. The idea of a grand historical narrative of Nintendo slowly and carefully killing all the friends they had in the industry is a nice idea, but it's more like this: 1. Nintendo is a horrible company to compete against. With 80 million Wii U's on the market and you can't even crack 100k sales, you start to look with annoyance at Nintendo fans who will Make Mario Kart Wii one of the best selling videogames of all time but can't give MadWorld, or anything else a try. And sure, No More Heroes was kind of successful, but most companies need hard numbers. 1 million isn't a big hit, it's a loving baseline for these people nowadays. I mean Nintendo fans wont even buy Nintendo games unless they have Zelda, Mario whatever plastered on the front. The Wonderful 101 is a Nintendo title and nope. If it was the original idea of 100 Nintendo characters then it would have probably sold shitzillions versus the pathetic numbers it did. 2. Wii U is one of the last "only on X" consoles. Basically exclusives won't exist in the future unless the HW manufacturer owns the IP/pays for it themselves. Most third party publishers want games that can be easily ported around. Summary: The Wii U isn't selling enough units to justify putting expensive games on it. Following this, it cant be easily ported without a loss in quality, and finally the sales will be so loving abysmal there isn't a point in trying(Mass Effect 3, for example, sold less than 10,000 copies at the Wii U's launch)
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 03:36
|
|
|
Astro7x posted:I completely agree, but try explaining this to my 12 year old self on how any of that poo poo mattered at the time. If it was on CD's, you'd be able to have twice as many games! On the other hand, the obscene cost is probably why there isn't really a single dud in my N64 collection. When you don't get many games, you make sure the ones you do get are awesome.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 03:45
|
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:If it was on CD's, you'd be able to have twice as many games! But... but Quest 64 exists.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 03:46
|
|
|
Cao Ni Ma posted:How does this even work? It sold less consoles and less games than the NES. Even then it had a worse attach ratio. You cant even claim something like royalty fees because by then a bunch of third parties were fed up with them. I really doubt Nintendo publicly separated N64 profits from Game Boy Color and Pokemon profits occurring at the same time. I'm assuming it is true that Nintendo hit a profit peak in those years, but not due to N64.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 04:42
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:But... but Quest 64 exists. Oh, no, there was a lot of terrible poo poo out there, I'm just saying that since I got so few games, I made drat sure I wasn't buying any of that terrible poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 04:42
|
|
|
Cao Ni Ma posted:How does this even work? It sold less consoles and less games than the NES. Even then it had a worse attach ratio. You cant even claim something like royalty fees because by then a bunch of third parties were fed up with them. It was something that was tossed around a lot leading up to the GameCube launch, but I can't find it now because every time I Google Nintendo 64 and profits I get articles about Nintendo's recent problems. My understanding is it's because Nintendo directly published over 25 games for Nintendo 64 that broke a million copies. Basically the N64 pushed less actual game sales than say, the SNES, but because more of them were actually published by Nintendo, they made more money on the N64. Just compare the lists of best selling games for N64 and SNES on Wikipedia. You can totally see it. Nintendo's poo poo sold better on Nintendo 64. The drop in games sales was all third party stuff. Look at Zelda for example, it pushed nearly 3 million more units on N64 than is did on SNES. The only game that sold better than Mario 64 for SNES was Mario World and that's because it was a pack in. Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Feb 4, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 11:49
|
|
|
What's the chance NoA becomes the dominant branch of the company, tells the Japanese power-players that they're old and irrelevant, takes control of hardware development, and NoJ basically becomes a software developer? Because that's how Sony has tried to save themselves. Half of the messaging on PS4 has been making GBS threads on Kutaragi's legacy, and bringing forth a bunch of western guys familiar with the PC space as the fathers of the console rather than the Asian DNA of the last few generations. It was startling how few non-English presentations were involved in either the announcement or E3 presentations. It was basically just Square and Capcom, although part of that is Konami/Kojima/MGS5 being part of a presentation before the manufacturer presentations. If the PS4 does succeed, Nintendo may need to acknowledge that Japan's influence in the industry has either changed or fallen. Showing us (S)NES nostalgia and a smattering of Dynasty Warriors is just about the opposite.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 12:05
|
|
|
It could be part of the solution, but it can't necessarily be taken for granted that NOA has the right minds in place to fully take charge like that and have it work out. They do seem to need to be able to operate without NOJ breathing down their necks quite as much, though. I definitely do think one thing that needs to happen is an improvement of NOA's role as a liaison for western developers. They should be given enough autonomy and resources to strike better deals, take initiative with licensing Nintendo's properties out, and take over direct oversight of the work done by NA studios like Retro.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 12:15
|
|
|
I dunno, I kind of feel like Reggie is an empty suit. I think he's been an executive at Pizza Hut and Mega Bloks. So nothing really having to do with computing side from Nintendo, where he's just been a figurehead with no actual power.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 12:15
|
|
|
Craptacular! posted:What's the chance NoA becomes the dominant branch of the company, tells the Japanese power-players that they're old and irrelevant, takes control of hardware development, and NoJ basically becomes a software developer?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 12:22
|
|
|
I still dont understand what happened to NoA that they seem to be subservient to NoE. I think its the only example of any publisher where if it doesn't get a euro release you wont see an american release.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 12:23
|
|
|
Cliff Racer posted:Zero. And even if it actually happened Nintendo does not have the money necessary to take the type of loss out of the box on a hypothetical PS4 equivalent that Sony does. Nor do they have the first and third party support necessary to give such a potential console the necessary software support to be successful. If anything I'd prefer NoA to have more imput on software than hardware. A big part of Nintendo's problem is that starting in the cube era they just went into battle with no ammunition in certain really popular in the west genres. FPS, open world games, etc. All indications from teardowns is PS4 takes nowhere near the loss that WiiU does per machine, and almost sells at break even.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 12:27
|
|
|
I don't think NOA "taking over" would work but I think there could be more communication. It's difficult to tell what actually goes on behind closed doors but the impression the outside gets is that NOA's job is to sell what NOJ comes up with, no matter what it is. NoJ has some good people (despite their current image of being unable to find anybody's rear end with both hands) but the dialogue needs to go both ways. I don't want to see Nintendo just become a clone of the Sony and Microsoft lines, which aside from marketing/price points are mainly "do you want shooter A or shooter B" in any given console war. But a better read on what 3rd party devs are looking for, then figuring out how to make it feel like Nintendo, would be a better approach than the current "let's make what we want and assume developers will make games for it." I want Nintendo to keep feeling like Nintendo. I want them to be willing to take risks; for every Virtual Boy and WiiU there's a Wiimote (best way to play FPSes outside of keyboard/mouse in my opinion) or a DS touchscreen.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 12:38
|
|
|
Pixeltendo posted:"here lies the final resting place of the see-thru blue Game boy advance, with one copy of Chu-Chu rocket, no amount of blowing the cartridge will get it to work" I would love to have the GBA version of Chu Chu Rocket on the 3DS eShop. Then again I would love to have any good GBA games on the eShop at all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 13:03
|
|
|
greatn posted:All indications from teardowns is PS4 takes nowhere near the loss that WiiU does per machine, and almost sells at break even. Everything I have seen has put the deficit per console at between 30 and 40 dollars, or some other extremely low number. That means if someone buys one full game from PSN they made money. Meanwhile all we know about the Wii U is that it needed more than one game sale before the price drops to be profitable.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 13:08
|
|
|
KittyEmpress posted:Everything I have seen has put the deficit per console at between 30 and 40 dollars, or some other extremely low number. That means if someone buys one full game from PSN they made money.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 13:21
|
|
|
StevenM posted:I would love to have the GBA version of Chu Chu Rocket on the 3DS eShop. Then again I would love to have any good GBA games on the eShop at all. Let's one up that! ChuChu Rocket HD! Updated graphics, smoother framerate, online play, all features plus new game modes. Do it SEGA! Do it! Name your price.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 13:29
|
|
|
Here's my so crazy it just might work idea to save Nintendo Give Link the ability to jump (besides leaping off ledges)
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 13:32
|
|
|
Sega still knows Chuchu Rocket exists, but they put it where it belongs: on tablets. I guess that means it would make a good Wii U game. Macaluso posted:Here's my so crazy it just might work idea to save Nintendo I still want Zelda-themed Dark Souls because it seems like the right combination of the N64-onward lockon 3D stuff with the original game's penchant for bizarre secrets like finding staircases by burning random bushes and accessing dungeons by pushing one of a thousand identical tombstones. Zelda is real straightforward now. It needs to bring back a little bit of the "What the gently caress do you mean he dislikes smoke?" obscurity. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Feb 4, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 13:33
|
|
|
Oops
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 13:36
|
|
|
I'm trying to piece together what Nintendo actually wants their console to succeed in. They want to have a unified platform like Apple phones/tablets and Android devices, but have done absolutely nothing with console-handheld connectivity since the Gamecube. They want to get into Quality of Life software, but a console isn't a good platform for that type of product, especially if they make a loss because those people don't buy more than one game for it. They made a ton of promises about bringing third party support to the Wii U when they announced it, but made absolutely no effort to actually engage with developers struggling with the system's primitive development kit and online infrastructure. They're supposed to be helping indie developers, but the Vita shits all over its indie catalogue. Now they want to allow third party developers to use their characters, but refused to let Platinum use them in The Wonderful 101, and then gave Zelda to the bloody Dynasty Warriors developer, whose games are niche as hell outside of Japan.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 13:37
|
|
|
Ronnie posted:Let's one up that! ChuChu Rocket HD! Updated graphics, smoother framerate, online play, all features plus new game modes. Do it SEGA! Do it! Name your price.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 14:21
|
|
|
Ronnie posted:Let's one up that! ChuChu Rocket HD! Updated graphics, smoother framerate, online play, all features plus new game modes. Do it SEGA! Do it! Name your price.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 14:24
|
|
|
PrBacterio posted:I thought it was one game before the price drop, and "more than one game (but won't say anything beyond that)" after it? That's how I remember that statement from Reggie, anyways, though I might well be wrong. Reggie said 1 game, but Nintendo had to retract his remarks saying they were incorrect. In retracting the statement, Nintendo wouldn't clarify what the real number was, but specified it was more than 1 game. All of this happened before the price drop. thefncrow fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Feb 4, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 14:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 11:42 |
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:Cartridges were a really stupid move, though, because sure, you had short load times, but you also had very limited space for your games, and the extra production cost was insane. I remember games being 60-70 bucks back in 1997, which comes out to about 85-100 dollars in today's money. That's not for a fancy version, or any extras, that's just for the game. It was a really anti-third party move and that attitude hasn't gone away in the 20 years since. I remember being drawn to the N64 more than to the PSX because of carts. Somehow jewelcase CDs felt more disposable and less fun than a big colorful block of plastic to kid-me, and I still associated them with the FMV era, which had just ended back then. I know it's a cliche but I still love cramming a cart into my Nintendo consoles because gently caress that still feels cool.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 15:06
|
|
