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ConfusedUs posted:The trick to writing decent anything is to be able to write. Don't use the supernatural elements as a crutch to make your story work. Build your story like you would anything else. You need plot, and characters, and pacing, and all of that far more than you need something zany like a Mountie wizard and his pet moose. Well yeah, that's why I wanted to see how Dresden (and other good or decent writers) write, and try and practice writing so that supernatural elements in my story enhance the plot/characters/etc, instead of replacing the plot. To be fair, I don't have much experience writing in the first place (especially first-person narratives like Dresden), so any practice is practice, I guess. Oh, and Dresden question: Has Butcher ever explained why he chose Chicago for the setting?
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Feb 3, 2014 23:35
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Gygaxian posted:
Because DC would involve politics and Spider-Man has New York covered.
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Feb 3, 2014 23:55
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Gygaxian posted:Well yeah, that's why I wanted to see how Dresden (and other good or decent writers) write, and try and practice writing so that supernatural elements in my story enhance the plot/characters/etc, instead of replacing the plot. Then you need to just focus on the process of writing itself. Head on over to Creative Convention. There's some good writing threads over there.
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Feb 4, 2014 00:06
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Gygaxian posted:Oh, and Dresden question: Has Butcher ever explained why he chose Chicago for the setting? He wanted a big city, opened up a map, and figured it'd have to NYC, LA, DC or Chicago. NYC's too cliche, LA's too spread out, and like -Fish- said DC would involve too much of a political angle. And that is how we got the massive parking lot at Wrigley Field.
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Feb 4, 2014 01:07
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404GoonNotFound posted:He wanted a big city, opened up a map, and figured it'd have to NYC, LA, DC or Chicago. NYC's too cliche, LA's too spread out, and like -Fish- said DC would involve too much of a political angle. I'd heard he originally wanted KC, because he knew the area but Anita Blake is set up there and he was told not to conflict with that
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Feb 4, 2014 02:03
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Gygaxian posted:Oh, and Dresden question: Has Butcher ever explained why he chose Chicago for the setting? I remember someone (maybe you?) asking about this before, maybe in this thread or maybe another one. Same thing, wanted to write a noir-ish novel set in Utah. The thing is, it's really hard to do that. There's only a couple of cities in the US that everyone (not just locals) knows something about. Everyone knows at least something about New York City, Washington DC, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, maybe one or two others. Orlando, maybe? This contributes to the story massively. You notice how we've never seen Marcone do anything actually ... bad? Even in the short stories he never seems anything more than precise. But we don't care, we already know his character type. He is the Chicago Mob Guy, and everybody knows something about the Chicago Mob Guy. And so we end up with a story set somewhere that actually lends something to the story. Even though Butcher knows gently caress-all about Chicago, and ends up writing like it's Cincinnati with mobsters. Utah is really hard up on nationally recognized features. The only thing everyone agrees on is that there's Mormons there.
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Feb 4, 2014 02:26
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"Jim Butcher" posted:I wish there was some big dramatic reason. But the real one is that I had originally set the books in my hometown of Kansas City, and my writing teacher thought that setting books so similar to the Anita Blake books in tone in Kansas City (where AB is in St. Louis) was just a little too similar. So I looked at a map and picked the nearest big city. Chicago.
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Feb 4, 2014 02:39
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SolTerrasa posted:I remember someone (maybe you?) asking about this before, maybe in this thread or maybe another one. Same thing, wanted to write a noir-ish novel set in Utah. The thing is, it's really hard to do that. There's only a couple of cities in the US that everyone (not just locals) knows something about. Everyone knows at least something about New York City, Washington DC, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, maybe one or two others. Orlando, maybe? Yeah, it was me. I decided to dust off that old "Like the Dresden Files, but in Utah" idea. The problem is that I don't feel comfortable writing modern-day settings that aren't personally familiar to me: I lived in Washington State for a little while so I could do a Seattle story, but for the vast majority of my life I have only lived in Utah. I've never even been to Arizona, Colorado, or Nevada (side note: Las Vegas could probably be a good urban fantasy setting). You do have a point on Utah being obscure except for Mormons though; outside of Salt Lake City and a few other areas, that's basically all it is. There's not even a good criminal culture (like Chicago) that I could draw ideas from, it's just a lame retread of Bloods and Crips and small-time crooks. Though like I said, I'm uncomfortable with writing modern-day areas I'm not familiar with.
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Feb 4, 2014 08:27
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Yeah. I guess maybe you could try to make your book national news by playing controversy - make the Mormon church a cover for a vampire bloodcult or something, and try to get people outraged. That's about it, though.
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Feb 4, 2014 08:36
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Gygaxian posted:The problem is that I don't feel comfortable writing modern-day settings that aren't personally familiar to me: I lived in Washington State for a little while so I could do a Seattle story, but for the vast majority of my life I have only lived in Utah. I've never even been to Arizona, Colorado, or Nevada (side note: Las Vegas could probably be a good urban fantasy setting). I'm in Seattle right now, so I'm biased, but I'd say Seattle is a way better choice than Utah. You're right about Las Vegas though! I didn't even think about that. Although maybe you should just write it in someplace you've never been! It didn't bother Butcher that much! (except a few embarrassing moments, like those massive parking lots by the baseball field...)
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Feb 4, 2014 08:40
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Tunicate posted:Yeah. I guess maybe you could try to make your book national news by playing controversy - make the Mormon church a cover for a vampire bloodcult or something, and try to get people outraged. That's about it, though. Or you could make the Mormons a heroic organization of vampire hunters or something, you'd sell lots of copies to Mormons and none to anyone else. SolTerrasa posted:I'm in Seattle right now, so I'm biased, but I'd say Seattle is a way better choice than Utah. You're right about Las Vegas though! I didn't even think about that. I no longer live in Seattle, but I used to and some of my friends are making me very jealous - they're playing the Dresden RPG set in Seattle. The setting they've created includes "What if all the genetics/biotech research companies downtown were in on this whole magic thing?" and "Fremont is literally the center of the universe."
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Feb 4, 2014 08:50
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I might have to borrow that idea for the tradgames session I'm setting up.
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Feb 4, 2014 08:51
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Arcsech posted:Or you could make the Mormons a heroic organization of vampire hunters or something, you'd sell lots of copies to Mormons and none to anyone else Heck, use a pen name and do both. Outrage backlash should work well, judging by Coke's superbowl ad.
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Feb 4, 2014 08:55
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Considering the geography around Utah you could perhaps spin it as a modern rural fantasy. Instead of noir you could infuse the novel with western themes. Corrupt local law associated with nefarious supernaturals, native american mythos to play with, wandering hero moving from town to town. Its pretty fertile ground.
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Feb 4, 2014 09:05
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Well, one of my ideas was that Utah (or more specifically the Salt Lake Valley) was a nexus of magical ley lines, and Brigham Young knew that when he said "this is the place". I would've left it ambiguous as to whether Brigham knew it because he was a prophet, knew it as a practitioner of magic, or both. That was supposed to be a rather central point, supernatural creatures and even ancient deities in contrast with the LDS Church's insistence on Christ and the Book of Mormon. And the main character was supposed to be a believing Mormon (not obnoxious, just a regular believer) who is bound to serve the god Coyote. Can't really use that if I go with Las Vegas, though I'm leaning towards Vegas as the setting.The Puppy Bowl posted:Considering the geography around Utah you could perhaps spin it as a modern rural fantasy. Instead of noir you could infuse the novel with western themes. Corrupt local law associated with nefarious supernaturals, native american mythos to play with, wandering hero moving from town to town. Its pretty fertile ground. That is also what I was planning on doing, but I also live in deary suburbia, so I literally know less about rural Utah than I do Las Vegas or Seattle.
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Feb 4, 2014 09:06
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SolTerrasa posted:There's only a couple of cities in the US that everyone (not just locals) knows something about. Everyone knows at least something about New York City, Washington DC, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, maybe one or two others. Orlando, maybe? Vegas, Seattle, maybe Boston or Philly. Austin is another maybe, though I might overestimate that one due to being Texan. Gygaxian posted:Well, one of my ideas was that Utah (or more specifically the Salt Lake Valley) was a nexus of magical ley lines, and Brigham Young knew that when he said "this is the place". I would've left it ambiguous as to whether Brigham knew it because he was a prophet, knew it as a practitioner of magic, or both. That was supposed to be a rather central point, supernatural creatures and even ancient deities in contrast with the LDS Church's insistence on Christ and the Book of Mormon. And the main character was supposed to be a believing Mormon (not obnoxious, just a regular believer) who is bound to serve the god Coyote. Can't really use that if I go with Las Vegas, though I'm leaning towards Vegas as the setting. Depending on your intended audience, this could be a problematic premise. If I ran across this on Amazon or the like, I'd file this under "Mormon fiction" instead of "urban fantasy" and thusly I would almost certainly avoid it. I feel pretty confident in saying that I'd be far from the only person to do that.
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Feb 4, 2014 10:00
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I've been marathoning audiobooks while I work on a really tight deadline for a graphic novel I'm doing. So I just listened to all the Felix Castor books. I really like what was revealed with demons in the 4th book. I had a long talk about it with a friend of mine cause it's a pretty greatly constructed reveal. It was at a point where the world had been built up enough that it made complete sense with it's inner workings of what is going on with all the other supernatural stuff, but still weird enough that I didn't see it coming. I am kinda thinking Mike Carrey's better at prose than he is at comics. Cause while I dug Lucifer and his Hellblazer stuff, he has a better grasp of words than instructing pictures. Before going through the Felix Castor stuff, I listened to a good bit of Graywalker. And that series end up being disappointing. I thought the first few books were pretty interesting. But while the individual plots were interesting, the overarching plot was extremely dull AND took over all the books after the first 2. Also, while catching up on this thread I'm SUPER disappointed to learn the Mercedes Thompson stuff ends up in rape town. I like werewolves a lot but it is SO annoying that if werewolves are part of the story then seems like chances are it is going to furry rape town. I had picked up Moon Call as an Audiobook but now I don't know if want to even bother. After the Kitty Novelle series going down that road REALLY fast, I am so grumpy about it. I also kinda wish there was at least one well written Urban Fantasy series is a lady main character and didn't turn into which dude is she making eyes at now. I'm not against Paranormal Romance as a genre, I just would like some action ladies. Also for writing good Urban Fantasy, I would try to connect it to something about the real city that is uniquic to it. Chicago is good for Dresden cause of the Noir part of the books. DC would be good if you wanted to deal with politics. San Fran obviously has it's large gay community. Part of Urban fantasy is the Urban part. KellHound fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Feb 4, 2014 |
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Feb 4, 2014 12:22
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If you don't have a lot of experience with writing you should just write. Write what you know, write the best Salt Lake Urban Fantasy you can, because the first few things you write are going to be I'm the only one currently DM'ing Dresden Files over in Trad-Games right now, the main game is set in New Orleans, which is a place I've never been before. It's been a really interesting trip (2 years running now!) and I think it's very doable to write about a place you haven't been if you do your due diligence. Writing for Dresden is really fun. e: There's a new HBO series running right now, "True Detective" about very small town po-lice investigating a cult murder that has just oodles of ideas in it for rural fantasy. mistaya fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Feb 4, 2014 |
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Feb 4, 2014 16:31
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I finally convinced my wife to start reading the Dresden files. She's just started Blood Rites and is thrilled with herself that she figured out that Thomas is Harry's half-brother. She also asked about baby Mouse and if he sticks around, but I didn't tell her anything. Upon finishing Death Masks, she told me she hopes there's no more Denarians in future books as Nicodemus creeps her out. 
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Feb 4, 2014 16:40
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I really don't think location is as important as people make it out to be. Dresden Files would work almost as well in "random metropolitan area" as it does in Chicago. Basing it in Chicago has some advantages - like stated, the reader has an idea what to expect from Chicago, and you also can be inspired by real world places and events, but the important thing is to have a good story behind it. Yes, some people care that Dresden took a dinosaur through downtown Chicago, or that he went to the Shedd Aquarium or Wrigley Field, but the important thing is that he did those things - just going through the downtown on a dinosaur and going to an aquarium or baseball field is enough for most people. It's a plus to use these places/cities people understand, but I don't think it's a must. I think someone could make a good story set pretty much anywhere, so if you want to set it in Utah, go ahead and set it in Utah. Wherever there are people, there's drama and stories and history and so on and that's what people want to read about. And as far as people knowing something about an area, people tend to know climate, basic American history, and so on to some extent for pretty much everywhere. If I set a story in a small town in northern Wisconsin, people would expect it to have cold winters, lots of forests, and everyone knows what a small town is like - it doesn't matter if you've never even heard of a place like Tomahawk or Prentice. Set it in southern Florida and people expect certain things there. If I wrote a story about Yukon Pass, Alaska, you've already got some idea what to expect - it's going to be cold, with dark winters, going to be rural because it's not one of the Alaska city names you recognize. There'll be moose and caribou and grizzly bears, and so on. It doesn't matter that there isn't a city named Yukon Pass, people still have an idea about the place. And as far as cities go, if you go through the list of the top 100 biggest cities in the US, people are going to have some ideas about either the city or the state pretty much all the time, even if they've never been there or even seen it on TV. And so long as you as the author know the area, you can impart your understanding of the real city as you develop the fake one, and still use its history to get story ideas, etc. KellHound posted:Also for writing good Urban Fantasy, I would try to connect it to something about the real city that is uniquic to it. Chicago is good for Dresden cause of the Noir part of the books. DC would be good if you wanted to deal with politics. San Fran obviously has it's large gay community. Part of Urban fantasy is the Urban part. This is true, but I don't feel that means someone should have to limit themselves just to well known cities and regions. I don't have to know that Chicago has ties to the mob and so on to enjoy a story about Chicago that deals with the mafia - it just makes it more enjoyable if I know these things going in. That said, I really don't think it would be a good idea to have the main character be Mormon unless you're marketing solely to other Mormons. That's just going to throw up warning flags to the non-Mormons, since they want to read a fantasy book, not get preached at or have the author try to convert them. Any time you bring up a still-living religion it carries with it some baggage and you run into issues with turning off parts of your audience. It can work if it's just brought up in passing, but the more active the character is in the religion, the worse it gets - it becomes less "the character believes this" and more "the author believes this." And then the character becomes at risk of being an author insert. I can't think of any successful fantasy work where the main character is a practicing member of any existing faith (though I admit I haven't really read a whole lot of the genre). Look at Brandon Sanderson - he's a Mormon, but even in his real-world Earth stories, none of his characters are Mormon or even mention their religion. Or imagine if you found out that Jim Butcher was a born-again Christian - it would change your view on every interaction with the Knights of the Cross and the Carpenters, probably for the worse. You're not going to be able to hide the fact that you're a Mormon - Mormons are pretty easy to pick out since it's the first thing people think of when you mention Salt Lake City or Utah, so having a Mormon main character is going to hurt you before they've even started reading the book. Tying Coyote into modern Mormonism is another issue, since you'd have to keep bringing up Mormonism to tie in how that's okay with his faith and so on. And overall you could end up turning off your Mormon audience, in addition to all the non-Mormons you've already lost. I'd much rather read about a main character who practices the Navajo or Pueblo religion or so on, because then it stays pretty much in fantasy since very few people still practice those and the author doesn't. Set in Utah, he'd still have to deal with Mormons and non-Mormon Christians, but it would be from an outside viewpoint and wouldn't have to be a focal point of the story. Plus, the further he is from your personal beliefs, the harder it is to end up turning your main character into an author insert. Basically, it's my opinion that if the reader can tell what you as an author believe on a religious level just by reading your works, you've failed as a non-fiction author in just about every case. OneTwentySix fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Feb 4, 2014 |
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Feb 4, 2014 17:32
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Considering the geography around Utah you could perhaps spin it as a modern rural fantasy. Instead of noir you could infuse the novel with western themes. Corrupt local law associated with nefarious supernaturals, native american mythos to play with, wandering hero moving from town to town. Its pretty fertile ground. The Native American mythos was one of the things that was propping up Iron Druid pretty well for a couple books so you should definitely be able to get a good story out of it.
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Feb 4, 2014 18:07
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Azuth0667 posted:The Native American mythos was one of the things that was propping up Iron Druid pretty well for a couple books so you should definitely be able to get a good story out of it. I read the first Iron Druid book and was left kind of underwhelmed. Does it get better? And when?
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Feb 4, 2014 19:46
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Not really, no. That's as good as it gets.
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Feb 4, 2014 19:52
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Gygaxian posted:Well, one of my ideas was that Utah (or more specifically the Salt Lake Valley) was a nexus of magical ley lines, and Brigham Young knew that when he said "this is the place". I would've left it ambiguous as to whether Brigham knew it because he was a prophet, knew it as a practitioner of magic, or both. That was supposed to be a rather central point, supernatural creatures and even ancient deities in contrast with the LDS Church's insistence on Christ and the Book of Mormon. And the main character was supposed to be a believing Mormon (not obnoxious, just a regular believer) who is bound to serve the god Coyote. Can't really use that if I go with Las Vegas, though I'm leaning towards Vegas as the setting. Easy, base it out of Vegas (for a good dose of the normal criminal element) but let it wander around the Southwest. Especially if you went for a more "western" rather than "noir" theming it would make sense for your protagonist to be a loner "cowboy" wandering the supernatural 'frontier'. You could get away with pretty much every idea in your initial concept, just SLC wouldn't be the central focus, simply one of the set pieces. Mix in healthy doses of Native american myth, with european folklore, mormon christianity, and simmer until insane but awesome. edit: personally i'm kinda sad that, with the exception of Shiro's backstory, Butcher has failed to mention anything other than "Catholicism" (the 'Church') as christianity in his universe. There's a ton of potential conflict and story hooks which could include various flavors of not-catholic christianity which might be fun to see. I get that it probably doesn't fit his vision, or at least the planned story arc, but it'd be interesting as an RPG supplement if nothing else. I may be biased as a Mormon though. treeboy fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Feb 4, 2014 |
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Feb 4, 2014 19:57
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ZorajitZorajit posted:I read the first Iron Druid book and was left kind of underwhelmed. Does it get better? And when? The third one is probably the best of the series, it has some Native American mythos going on which helps and the fourth book is almost entirely propped up on it. You'd be pretty safe to stop at four because after that it gets close to paranormal romance super sex crap. Surprisingly the short story "Kaibab Unbound" has been the best of all of it.
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Feb 4, 2014 19:58
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ZorajitZorajit posted:I read the first Iron Druid book and was left kind of underwhelmed. Does it get better? And when? Khizan posted:Not really, no. That's as good as it gets. I still plowed through to the current book because I find them fun and entertaining but by no means "good."
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Feb 4, 2014 19:58
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The third is definitely the best. As others have said the Native American angle and the character Coyote make it a lot of fun. I remember reading somewhere that the Dresden Files follows a pattern, every second, third, etc. book is about either fairies, vampires, white council and so on. Is this true? Can we predict what the rest of the novels will likely focus on?
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Feb 4, 2014 20:06
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Gygaxian posted:Utah I'd like to see some rear end kicking at Temple Square, or a treasure under the Y.... "Dresden's car was in the shop again so he was on trax for a few days. As more passengers got on he heard the train driver's' announcement: To the gentlemen bringing his bike on the train, please put your shirt back on." McBeth fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Feb 4, 2014 |
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Feb 4, 2014 20:11
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The one's I've been enjoying recently are the Monster Hunter series, by Larry Correa, its a little heavy on the TFR but still a fun read. A Lovecraftian horror getting mad about getting hit by mortal munitions is hilarious.
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Feb 4, 2014 20:14
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BiohazrD posted:I remember reading somewhere that the Dresden Files follows a pattern, every second, third, etc. book is about either fairies, vampires, white council and so on. Is this true? Can we predict what the rest of the novels will likely focus on? IIRC: Every third book is a vampire book, every 5th book is a Denarian book, and every 4th book is a fairy book. This is not to say that fairies only appear in books 4/8/12 and so forth(Book 13 was all about the Fairy Courts, etc), but it's held true so far. Spoilericious breakdown: Book 3: Grave Peril (Dresden starts the Red Court War) Book 4: Summer Knight (Dresden kills the Summer Lady) Book 4: Death Masks (Dresden, Nicodemus, and the Shroud) Book 6: Blood Rites (Dresden and the White Court) Book 8: Proven Guilty (Dresden raids Arctis Tor) Book 9: White Night (Dresden and the White Court, part II) Book 10: Small Favour (Dresden, Nicodemus, and one Creepy rear end Island) Book 12: Changes (Dresden kills the Red Court AND Dresden becomes the Winter Knight) We know book 15(Skin Game) will have Dresden helping Nicodemus pull a heist, so that's the Denarians. Speculation in this thread has Mavra being involved for the Vampire side. Khizan fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Feb 4, 2014 |
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Feb 4, 2014 20:17
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So could that problem with having religion in fiction be why Dresden is basically an atheist/agnostic/humanist? My intention with my hypothetical Mormon main character isn't to convert anybody or to preach, it's basically just to have a character who fits the religious demographics (and expectations) of Utah, and who might have access to things non-Mormons wouldn't (not even the temples, more like the Granite Records Vault owned by the LDS Church). And I wanted to explore the idea of a character bound to service for a deity he doesn't even believe in. But I guess if that would alienate readers, then I won't be able to do that (I am a Mormon, by the way). Though the main character being a Mormon isn't a major part of his personality, (to be honest, I haven't fleshed out the main character's personality much in the first place) the main part is his service to a Native American deity who demands worship yet he does not believe in, and his contractual service to such a being. And Salt Lake City isn't even that Mormon (or otherwise homogenous, for that matter), so if I set it there, I don't need a Mormon character even if it is in Utah. I've been taking pains in developing the other parts of the setting (i.e., the monsters, wizards, other supernatural figures) with the most minimal connection to Mormonism, so that isn't a problem. Heck, one of the main character's sorcerer friends will be a Vietnamese Catholic second-generation immigrant! Though part of my problem with leaving Salt Lake City as a setting is that I don't feel that I know how to write Las Vegas (or wherever) with authority, as if I actually lived there. I can picture a character actually living in SLC, but while I'm fine with fully fantasy settings, I have a bit of trouble imagining Vegas as if I lived there. treeboy posted:Easy, base it out of Vegas (for a good dose of the normal criminal element) but let it wander around the Southwest. Especially if you went for a more "western" rather than "noir" theming it would make sense for your protagonist to be a loner "cowboy" wandering the supernatural 'frontier'. You could get away with pretty much every idea in your initial concept, just SLC wouldn't be the central focus, simply one of the set pieces. Hey, another Mormon on the forum? Great! That makes three of us that I know of. In any case, I do like the "wandering cowboy" idea for the main character, especially since he's probably going to running around everywhere if he's going to be serving Coyote. It lets him run around California, Arizona, and wherever as well. I do intend to have a "everything but the kitchen sink" sort of supernatural element in the story, so your idea of mixing-and-matching sounds good. And thanks for the help everybody, even though this is probably not the right thread for it. I'll take it over to the Creative Corner, though I'm not sure what to title a brainstorming thread.
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Feb 4, 2014 20:58
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Gygaxian posted:But I guess if that would alienate readers, then I won't be able to do that At this point (counter to what I said above) gently caress what would alienate readers and write something you will have fun writing. It will be garbage, because everyone is terrible at writing when they start. Write it, go to Creative Convention and have people tell you why it's awful, write something else that tries to fix those problems, repeat from step 2.
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Feb 4, 2014 21:23
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Gygaxian posted:things If you wanted to explore the idea of serving a deity he doesn't believe in, you could maybe set your protagonist up as an ex-Mormon who was kicked out of the church for his perceived (or actual) heresy. I think the issues people are talking about could be mitigated by having the main character not be a practicing member of the author's religion. It also opens up the option to explore your cosmology through an internal crisis of faith, and could give you some interesting themes to develop later on.
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Feb 4, 2014 21:25
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Khizan posted:IIRC: Every third book is a vampire book, every 5th book is a Denarian book, and every 4th book is a fairy book. This is not to say that fairies only appear in books 4/8/12 and so forth(Book 13 was all about the Fairy Courts, etc), but it's held true so far. why would you spoiler tag the things in the past, but not the thing in the future (you muppet)
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Feb 4, 2014 21:31
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Cause I think that learning what happens in Changes or the end of Summer Knight or the like is a big OH poo poo moment if you're new to the series, but learning the dust jacket synopsis of Skin Game doesn't spoil much of anything. Edited in spoilers, though.
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Feb 4, 2014 21:51
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OneTwentySix posted:This is true, but I don't feel that means someone should have to limit themselves just to well known cities and regions. I don't have to know that Chicago has ties to the mob and so on to enjoy a story about Chicago that deals with the mafia - it just makes it more enjoyable if I know these things going in. I don't think someone should limit themselves to big cities either, but if you aren't using a piece of a real city to enrich your local, then you might as well make up a city. I mean if magic exists then there is no reason why someone couldn't have started a giant city in Wyoming that isn't there now. Humans usually settle on rivers/trade route and some wizard grabbed bunch of land that no one wanted then magically made a river that turned out more convenient than a river that really exists. So basically my advice is set it where you want just make the story work with and use the setting. And if you are most familiar with Salt Lake City then go for. Or maybe pick a city that you are interested in and use the story to learn more about it.
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Feb 4, 2014 22:18
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Gygaxian posted:So could that problem with having religion in fiction be why Dresden is basically an atheist/agnostic/humanist? My intention with my hypothetical Mormon main character isn't to convert anybody or to preach, it's basically just to have a character who fits the religious demographics (and expectations) of Utah, and who might have access to things non-Mormons wouldn't (not even the temples, more like the Granite Records Vault owned by the LDS Church). And I wanted to explore the idea of a character bound to service for a deity he doesn't even believe in. But I guess if that would alienate readers, then I won't be able to do that (I am a Mormon, by the way). Though the main character being a Mormon isn't a major part of his personality, (to be honest, I haven't fleshed out the main character's personality much in the first place) the main part is his service to a Native American deity who demands worship yet he does not believe in, and his contractual service to such a being. I don't mean to sound like an rear end here, but this is a problem that is somewhat more specific to Mormons, imo, just because of the outsider perception of them. I don't know much about the details of the LDS church, but most non-Mormons don't know much about it and that needs to be taken into consideration when you're aiming for wider publication. With that in mind, this is what I associate them with in my head: magic underwear, shitloads of kids, baptizing ancestors, and that South Park song about Joseph Smith and the plates in the hat. This makes overt Mormons in fiction a somewhat harder sell than Catholics, who I associate with the Latin Mass, the Inquisition, and the Vatican, which is an entirely different atmosphere. If you tell me the LDS church has a secret holy order of vampire hunters, it comes off comical because of what I know about them. If you tell me that Vatican has one, I have no problem taking that seriously as a concept.
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Feb 4, 2014 22:40
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I'm ex-Catholic and I have a much easier time believing in secret orders of Mormon vampire hunters. So I'm not convinced your reaction is going to be the default one. Mormons also have a reputation for being unusually serious about their religion.
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Feb 4, 2014 23:02
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Khizan posted:I don't mean to sound like an rear end here, but this is a problem that is somewhat more specific to Mormons, imo, just because of the outsider perception of them. I don't know much about the details of the LDS church, but most non-Mormons don't know much about it and that needs to be taken into consideration when you're aiming for wider publication. With that in mind, this is what I associate them with in my head: magic underwear, shitloads of kids, baptizing ancestors, and that South Park song about Joseph Smith and the plates in the hat. Well, there are the Danites, and in the old 1800s fiction that involved Mormonism they were featured a lot, but yeah, other than that, it's hard to make a believable-sounding Mormon-centered setting that isn't way too niche (and I don't want to go niche) for non-LDS readers. I mean, I found a "Monsters and Mormons" anthology that deals decently with that kind of thing, but even as a Mormon, I found some of the reference way too obscure for my liking. I certainly would have a hard time believing a Mormon vampire-hunting order. Though someone like Porter Rockwell hunting vampires? Sure. My point is that I'm most familiar with Mormonism and Utah, but that's not all I'm interested in. I like the idea in the Dresden Files that you can find pretty much anything supernatural in Chicago if you look hard enough, and it seems difficult to make Salt Lake City believable (to myself and to others) as a city like that.
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Feb 4, 2014 23:27
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The mentioning of Seattle makes me think of the space needle being used as some sort of magical conduit.
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Feb 4, 2014 23:44
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