|
Basically, the whole original justification for unpaid interns was business whining that they were training people out of the goodness of their hearts, even though they didn't produce revenue and were a cost for the company, and minimum wage would destroy their precious bottom lines and they'd have to put these poor children out of work with no training or anything. And, because someone was stupid enough to believe that business would actually employ people out of the goodness of their hearts and not for profit, we got 80 years of corporations ramping the abuse to profit from free labor.
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 17:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 12:33 |
|
Radish posted:Also if you admit America has any problems you are branded as a traitor who shouldn't be listened to since you hate America and want its downfall instead of wanting to actually fix those problems. I think this is known as collectively deciding to dig up. The united states went a wrong way ten years ago, doubled down over and over, and has severely alienated a huge portion of its own citizenry as a result, and of course everyone else. Try telling these people that We are not a loving Football Team. I dunno. Idfc, I'm a citizen of the world anyway.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 18:03
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Basically, the whole original justification for unpaid interns was business whining that they were training people out of the goodness of their hearts, even though they didn't produce revenue and were a cost for the company, and minimum wage would destroy their precious bottom lines and they'd have to put these poor children out of work with no training or anything. I don't think unpaid internships would be much of an issue if there was the stipulation of "don't force them to spend all their time fetching coffee for free and teach them poo poo 75% of the time they're there." The biggest problem is that companies are legally permitted to use internships as free labor.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 18:16
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure interns can't legally be unpaid if they contribute to company profits. The problem is fighting that since I'm sure most interns aren't going to burn bridges over that and you'd have to go up against the company's legal team to do it. It's another one of those things that's fine in theory but private business has shown its not responsible enough to handle.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 18:25
|
|
|
ToxicSlurpee posted:I don't think unpaid internships would be much of an issue if there was the stipulation of "don't force them to spend all their time fetching coffee for free and teach them poo poo 75% of the time they're there." The biggest problem is that companies are legally permitted to use internships as free labor. I see them as another way to maintain some sort of way to catch poor people that haven't been screened out by other things in higher education. The on paper idea is good, people with no experience working at a reduced rate in exchange for valuable experience. In practice its another way to prevent upward mobility.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 18:27
|
|
|
Azuth0667 posted:I see them as another way to maintain some sort of way to catch poor people that haven't been screened out by other things in higher education. The on paper idea is good, people with no experience working at a reduced rate in exchange for valuable experience. In practice its another way to prevent upward mobility. The Baffler pointed this out 20 years ago in a brilliant article titled "Interns Built The Pyramids".
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 18:36
|
|
|
White shoe law firms pay their interns first year's salaries, or close to it. That is one industry at least where interns (called "summer associates") are not taken advantage of, at least partially.* Now, government agencies and judges DO take advantage of law students and pay them nothing or very little to be interns. *This was true 6 years ago. Who knows what is happening now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 18:39
|
|
|
euphronius posted:White shoe law firms pay their interns first year's salaries, or close to it. That is one industry at least where interns (called "summer associates") are not taken advantage of, at least partially.* Now, government agencies and judges DO take advantage of law students and pay them nothing or very little to be interns. I could say "gently caress you, got mine" but instead I'm arguing in favor of those less fortunate than me, because when I was an intern I got by far the highest wage I've ever had, before or after.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 18:47
|
|
|
Radish posted:I'm pretty sure interns can't legally be unpaid if they contribute to company profits. Yes but companies can count on young people not knowing their rights or being too poor or desperate to pose a credible threat of legal action. Schools are often complicit in this by requiring an internship (which the student must find himself) to graduate. Scummier schools charge the student 3 semester hours of tuition to count the internship or even require that the internship be unpaid at the behest of business. Fashion degree programs in particular are notorious for these abuses.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 19:25
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Yes but companies can count on young people not knowing their rights or being too poor or desperate to pose a credible threat of legal action. The fashion industry is a whole different type of hideous monster, though. Apparently they deliberately hire teenage girls as models so they look impossibly small by adult standards then "pay" them in free clothing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 19:47
|
|
|
"Cokegate" is starting to feel like the right's new Benghazi with how stupid and incessant their reactions are to it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_CSaEtKtw0 Even forgetting that the commercial is from a multinational corporation that started in America, America itself is chock full of multi-lingual people. My workplace is full of cool folks who are often children of immigrants (or immigrants themselves) who are fluent in korean, thai, cantonese, spanish, french, etc. Multiculturalism is a normal ordinary part of my everyday life, and a reality of life here in American cities. So the reactions to the ad is just so alien and divorced from my reality that I feel like the right wingers are the ones who are the aliens to the American experience. They're people who were vacuum-sealed in a 1950's sitcom Phantom Zone, who are pandering to the bible belt morlocks from the strange isolated poor-white-people parts of the country. Again though, I thought the ad was just a cheesy appeal to fashionable tolerance - it's so completely tame in its inoffensiveness that my reaction to it was just to roll my eyes and shrug at a soda company trying to cast as wide a net as possible to sell more drinks. So I wound up doing a double-take when I heard the reactions of crazy right wingers, who I thought like me would have just shrugged at a dull ad for soda and moved on with our lives. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Feb 4, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 19:48
|
|
|
Spacedad posted:America itself is chock full of multi-lingual people. Republicans loving hate that. This is where the attitude is coming from. The GOP expectation is that if you come to America you learn English (no, OUR version, not that sissypants bullshit the English speak), stop speaking your other languages, and just flat out loving forget them. American is the best language in the world and if you know any others you are anti-American.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 19:55
|
|
|
Spacedad posted:Even forgetting that the commercial is from a multinational corporation that started in America, America itself is chock full of multi-lingual people. My workplace is full of cool folks who are often children of immigrants (or immigrants themselves) who are fluent in korean, thai, cantonese, spanish, french, etc. Multiculturalism is a normal ordinary part of my everyday life, and a reality of life here in American cities. It's really not that divorced from reality, at least not their reality. Many of these people live in small towns where the most different group you're likely to experience on a normal day are the people from that other protestant church. The black people generally have their own side of town and there really isn't that much crossover. As someone who has worked and studied at a major university with a large international population I look at the commercial and don't think much of it, but to them it's like someone made a deliberate effort to 'rub their faces' in something they don't associate with their only frame of reference for the American experience. There really is no unified 'American experience' and their never has been outside of sitcom fantasy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:02
|
|
|
Spacedad posted:"Cokegate" is starting to feel like the right's new Benghazi with how stupid and incessant their reactions are to it. Coke are probably loving loving this though, its a distraction from them being the main sponsers at the Winter Olympics with all the anti-gay, beatings and so forth there. Listening to low IQ idiots complain about a song for a few weeks, or being tarred commie and pro-Putin gay bashing. They couldn't have timed it better if they tried.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:05
|
|
|
agarjogger posted:SA's been all over the place. In being very cynical and dismissive of people, comedy can sometimes start to rhyme with conservatism. And libertarianism used to be new and shiny, and not a laughing stock. It's more the bulk of SA's membership was around college age at the time and their prefrontal cortexes hadn't fully developed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:09
|
|
|
Someone needs to ask these people what their opinion is of this: http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/02/03/native-language-spotlighted-during-coca-cola-super-bowl-ad-153398 One of the languages being sung in that ad is a Native American language, Keres.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:09
|
|
|
Good Citizen posted:It's really not that divorced from reality, at least not their reality. Many of these people live in small towns where the most different group you're likely to experience on a normal day are the people from that other protestant church. The black people generally have their own side of town and there really isn't that much crossover. Yeah - I'm aware of that, and can fathom that kind of experience, especially after having been in those areas. What I'm saying is that their babbling about foreigners and poo poo here is alien to my experience, and millions of other Americans living in cities, and makes their group and those they're pandering to seem like the alien outsiders: The strange hyper-christianized ultra-nationalistic organisms from planet Cracker.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:12
|
|
|
Good Citizen posted:It's really not that divorced from reality, at least not their reality. Many of these people live in small towns where the most different group you're likely to experience on a normal day are the people from that other protestant church. The black people generally have their own side of town and there really isn't that much crossover. More like wealthy white suburbs. There are so many ridiculously vast, almost pure white suburban areas in the US where this stuff comes from. Places where you can live out most of your life never seeing a black person except for when you drive through a big city. I didn't think that many people lived in small towns these days, but rather the endless suburban sprawl wrapped around every city.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:13
|
|
|
Good Citizen posted:It's really not that divorced from reality, at least not their reality. Many of these people live in small towns where the most different group you're likely to experience on a normal day are the people from that other protestant church. The black people generally have their own side of town and there really isn't that much crossover. Hell, I grew up in a suburb of Detroit and it was like this. I got a job with a good international company and started to get to know some of the cultures of my coworkers and realized that by and large their way of viewing the world and the one instilled in me by my family were completely different, and mine was far more intolerant. The biggest impediment to most people who hold these views, similar to most homophobes, is simply a lack of exposure to that which they fear.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:14
|
|
|
Most unpaid internships in the US are illegal under the FLSA, but good luck getting employment law enforced.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:18
|
|
|
Kenzie posted:More like wealthy white suburbs. There are so many ridiculously vast, almost pure white suburban areas in the US where this stuff comes from. Places where you can live out most of your life never seeing a black person except for when you drive through a big city. I didn't think that many people lived in small towns these days, but rather the endless suburban sprawl wrapped around every city. Wealthy white suburbs are really more column A style FYGM conservatives. They see an ad like this and scoff at it being silly and PC and go on with their lives. The people having the real visceral reactions are the small town column B 'not Romney' primary voters. The ones who got introduced to Facebook in the last couple years by a relative that mediately regretted it. Small towns still exist and honestly their lifestyle is as alien to me as that ad must seem to them
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:22
|
|
|
Swan Oat posted:Most unpaid internships in the US are illegal under the FLSA, but good luck getting employment law enforced. poo poo like this is why I feel like there's going to be something of a labor union revolution in the near future.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:27
|
|
|
Spacedad posted:poo poo like this is why I feel like there's going to be something of a labor union revolution in the near future. Its a nice thought but, with how the right wing media treated occupy I don't think its possible. How are they supposed to get past the talking heads spewing untrue poo poo to a gullible population?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:33
|
|
|
Azuth0667 posted:Its a nice thought but, with how the right wing media treated occupy I don't think its possible. How are they supposed to get past the talking heads spewing untrue poo poo to a gullible population? After occupy, a lot of young people had their faith in the mainstream TV and print media eroded - there's been a massive upsurge in independent online media since then. I feel like occupy is like a dry run of things to come - the anger without the know-how to organize and use the media to your advantage.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:37
|
|
|
Spacedad posted:"Cokegate"... This is pretty true. They remind me a lot of the people who remained black and white in the movie Pleasantville. Speaking of movies: if you're interested in the right vs. left media narrative and the way it shapes discourse, I've been working my through a documentary called "Patriocracy" on a cable channel called "Pivot"(?). It's pretty good but so far seems to be falling into the "both sides do it all the time" trap by showing a Hannity clip and then an Obermann clip and implying that the sorts of things they said in those excerpts are the norm and go on 24/7. ToxicSlurpee posted:Republicans loving hate that. This is where the attitude is coming from. The GOP expectation is that if you come to America you learn English (no, OUR version, not that sissypants bullshit the English speak), stop speaking your other languages, and just flat out loving forget them. American is the best language in the world and if you know any others you are anti-American. I wouldn't have a huge problem with knowing/speaking English as a pre-requisite or requirement for citizenship. Not out of spite, discrimination or anger, but simply as a means of easing assimilation and helping everyone work together and communicate. Then again, I'd like a government program that offers to teach the language as well, and for free. Maybe make it free as a part of citizenship (go to this English class 2x a week). Before anyone pounces on me, I'm perfectly OK with mandatory Spanish, French and whatever language(s) being taught in public education. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Feb 4, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:41
|
|
|
Spacedad posted:After occupy, a lot of young people had their faith in the mainstream TV and print media eroded - there's been a massive upsurge in independent online media since then. I feel like occupy is like a dry run of things to come - the anger without the know-how to organize and use the media to your advantage. Possibly, there is also the new anti-protesting laws that got put into place because of occupy yet received no coverage from the talking heads. I can't see people that still think they can "get ahead" organizing and doing anything because of that. Who's going to risk a felony and a beat down from a militarized police all on a hope that congress will respond in the way they want? All while a talking head is chanting some sort of crap along the lines of " you lazy people, should try working harder then you'd be able to afford all these nice things."
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:45
|
|
|
Azuth0667 posted:Possibly, there is also the new anti-protesting laws that got put into place because of occupy yet received no coverage from the talking heads. I can't see people that still think they can "get ahead" organizing and doing anything because of that. Who's going to risk a felony and a beat down from a militarized police all on a hope that congress will respond in the way they want? All while a talking head is chanting some sort of crap along the lines of " you lazy people, should try working harder then you'd be able to afford all these nice things." The anti-protest laws can (and should) have their constitutionality challenged, and winning public favor through well organized civil disobedience of those laws would be one of the avenues of a new wave of protest movements. Making a public embarrassment for the state out of those laws is definitely something that's going to come up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:53
|
|
|
The reaction to the Coca-Cola commercial is rather telling as to how irrelevant the right is going to be soon. Think about all these corporations in recent years that have tried their hardest to have a social conscience on matters of gay rights, and other progressive matters. The right no longer has major corporations in their corner. Would you want to be an organization that would endorse/send money to someone like Rick Santorum?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 20:54
|
|
|
FuzzySkinner posted:The reaction to the Coca-Cola commercial is rather telling as to how irrelevant the right is going to be soon. Corporations don't have a conscience - they will do whatever makes them money. Tolerance is fashionable now because it means more money. You want to sell your product to as many people as possible - why alienate any group? Cynical point aside, it is this way now because of the tireless work and sacrifice of anti-racists, gay rights activists, religious freedom and civil liberty advocates, etc. The corporations are just following in the wake of where society's going thanks to the efforts of the real people. Also, all of this aside - I can't believe that these fuckwits couldn't put two and two together and realize that this ad was made anticipating the Olympics. There's even a patriotic 'gently caress you, Putin' moment of a gay couple. What, do these unpatriotic fuckers want to move to Russia or something? Commies....  Anyway, the right is increasingly a thorn in the side of business's ability to operate. For example: The difficulties caused for businesses by talented gay couples who work for them that they don't want to lose not being granted the same rights bring up lots of problems that businesses themselves by turn have to deal with. Meanwhile, the racism and intolerance exhibited by the right against people of different ethnicities, cultures, and religions creates further problems for these multinational corporations. Add to that the frustrating brinksmanship and gridlock in congress, and 'the men who hold the purse strings' are starting to not particularly like the GOP. They may love them for the goodies they give the ultra-rich and the corporations, but the pandering bullshit to a racist/homophobic/woman-hating/christian-bigot 'base' is becoming intolerable to deal with. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Feb 4, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 21:05
|
|
|
Hearing a foreign language might be an outlier experience in a lot of the country but living in a country of immigrants isn't unless you're a Native American. And I highly doubt all that's needed to change their minds is a life experience in an area where people speak multiple languages. I could be wrong and I'm sure plenty of people can listen to a line of a song sung in Spanish without getting angry, but I'm not going to excuse anyone because they happen to live in a town that's been slow cooked in racism that breeds hate for their own countrymen for decades. There's a lot of poo poo that makes up our national identity that's debatable but one that isn't: We're free to speak whatever loving language we want in America. If you disagree I openly question your understanding (at the very least) of the actual foundational values in the constitution and spirit of the country for the past 200 years. And hey, you're free to live here and enjoy citizenship while being that big of a dipshit too, just don't try and tell me you represent anything even approaching "REAL AMERICA".
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 21:09
|
|
|
Spacedad posted:The anti-protest laws can (and should) have their constitutionality challenged, and winning public favor through well organized civil disobedience of those laws would be one of the avenues of a new wave of protest movements. Making a public embarrassment for the state out of those laws is definitely something that's going to come up. Weren't those laws pretty much written up in response to civil disobedience so police could assault people who were camping in parks? I don't know why future civil disobedience wouldn't be adapted to in a similar way.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 21:10
|
|
|
What's great is that the Coke ad is in Keres, the language of the Pueblo people. So at least one of the groups featured has far more claim to be "real Americans" then anyone of European descent.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 21:23
|
|
|
Spacedad posted:
Someone hasn't been reading the Freep thread 
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 21:25
|
|
|
pd187 posted:Someone hasn't been reading the Freep thread Remember that one series of photo ops Obama did skeet/trap/blowing-up-clay-discs-with-a-shotgun shooting? Also of course they love the authoritarian strongman.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 21:28
|
|
|
Monkey Fracas posted:Remember that one series of photo ops Obama did skeet/trap/blowing-up-clay-discs-with-a-shotgun shooting? You think that their hypocrisy over calling Obama a dictator while slobbering over Putin's authoritarian cock is funny? What's even more hilarious and hypocritical on top of that is virtually all of those photo-ops of Putin are heavily staged: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/13/us-russia-putin-critic-idUSBRE88C17T20120913 quote:Also of course they love the authoritarian strongman. If they don't like it here, they should move to Russia. You have no idea how great it feels to say that. Intel&Sebastian posted:
I don't even mind them doing this if their claim of being part of "real America" weren't just a bigoted and discriminatory declaration that excluded other people not like themselves. That, and if you wanted to get serious about excluding who and who is not "American", you're left with only the native-Americans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2utsjsWOWUA Really, it's just about white racists claiming ownership at the expense of everyone else, while quite literally white-washing the often shameful history of how they got there. Edit: I think I found the exact type of person who would be freaked out by the Coke ad! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6k9FErfcO8 Spacedad fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Feb 4, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 21:37
|
|
|
(double post)
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 21:50
|
|
|
College Students Sign Petition to Imprison All Registered Gun Owners This appeared on my FB feed from an acquaintance who constantly posts 2nd amendment / right wing memes. Video is of some conspiracy theorist doofus going around asking for signatures to repeal the second amendment and put gun owners in FEMA camps. He has a bunch of other videos where he totally TROLLS Obama supporters.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 22:35
|
|
|
Groan. Prank petitions are so played out. Yes, people will sign another useless petition when you misrepresent what it's about, and also when you don't, and also when they want you to please be loving off now. It's kind of awesome though how awkward and terrified conservative activists/shitheads are of university crowds.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 22:38
|
|
|
Good Citizen posted:It's really not that divorced from reality, at least not their reality. Many of these people live in small towns where the most different group you're likely to experience on a normal day are the people from that other protestant church. The black people generally have their own side of town and there really isn't that much crossover. Yeah, I would say this is the real issue. Historical factors have made it so a lot of white people can go through their day without interacting with anyone non-white in a meaningful way. The blowback from the Coke commercial is coming from people being confronted with the idea that people unlike them exist in the United States and also consider themselves American. (I'm from Northeast Ohio and didn't meet an Asian, Indian, or Arab person until college.)
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 22:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 12:33 |
|
|
Eponymouse posted:College Students Sign Petition to Imprison All Registered Gun Owners Some details about the guy who made that petition: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Mark_Dice quote:Dice first gained attention in 2005 when he published his first book, The Resistance Manifesto - basically, a 480 page piece of "literature" for his followers, known as the Resistance. Here, he outlines the following beliefs: quote:Asking God to kill people he doesn't like
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 22:48
|
|