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Also, "Both doctors are too loving pissed to recognise the barky! Ha ha ha!"
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Jan 21, 2014 22:31
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Looking for ebook versions of these. None of iBooks, Kindle or Kobo seems to have any of the books before Desolation Island. Is this just a Canadian thing? Can anyone from the States confirm whether they can purchase, say, Master and Commander or Post Captain? Also, how is the quality of the ebooks? Do they differ between e.g. iBooks and Kindle?
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Jan 22, 2014 04:25
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In the US they're all available on Amazon. I've got the first 6 books on my Kindle and the quality has been good so far.
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Jan 22, 2014 15:18
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Terraplane posted:In the US they're all available on Amazon. I've got the first 6 books on my Kindle and the quality has been good so far. How frustrating. When searching for "Master and Commander", I got the following.   They are probably just as good, right?
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Jan 24, 2014 00:50
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Probably.
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Jan 24, 2014 00:53
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One of the few things that bothered me about the series was the number of times Jack was stranded at sea and then subsequently rescued. I suppose my memory could be playing tricks on me, since it's been several years, but it was beginning to stretch my credulity. Anyone else bothered by that? Are there any records of actual captains being both that unlucky and lucky?
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Jan 24, 2014 04:35
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kaujot posted:One of the few things that bothered me about the series was the number of times Jack was stranded at sea and then subsequently rescued. I suppose my memory could be playing tricks on me, since it's been several years, but it was beginning to stretch my credulity. Anyone else bothered by that? Are there any records of actual captains being both that unlucky and lucky? Not many captains fought as many successful single-ship actions as he does in the books, and I'm pretty sure no captain took prizes that frequently either. There are 20 books, something's got to happen in each one.
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Jan 24, 2014 06:47
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That's very true and a good point. Not like it was a huge problem I had with the books or anything. Just stuck out to me in a slightly negative way.
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Jan 24, 2014 07:42
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kaujot posted:That's very true and a good point. Not like it was a huge problem I had with the books or anything. Just stuck out to me in a slightly negative way. So, while no single captain ever had as much action/shipwrecks/... as maturin and aubrey had (not to speak of maturins spying), you can be fairly sure that at some point some captain experienced something close to what the books describe.
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Jan 24, 2014 08:31
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A lot of Aubrey (and Hornblower) is based on the rather amazing career of Lord Thomas Cochrane, 10th Earl of Dundonald. For example the Sophie vs. Cacafuego ship action (and basically the whole "cleaning the Med" in the first book) or a very pivotal event later in Aubrey's life. Wikipedia posted:One of his most notable exploits was the capture of the Spanish xebec frigate El Gamo, on 6 May 1801. El Gamo carried 32 guns and 319 men, compared with Speedy's 14 guns and 54 men. Cochrane flew an American flag and approached so closely to El Gamo that its guns could not depress to fire on the Speedy's hull. The Spanish tried to board and take over the ship. Whenever the Spanish were about to board, Cochrane pulled away briefly and fired on the concentrated boarding parties with his ship's guns. Eventually, Cochrane boarded the Gamo, despite being outnumbered about five to one, and captured her. As Nektu said nearly all fights, chases, boarding actions and land assaults are based on real events. They are fictionalized of course, often compressed somewhat and of course attributed to our protagonists, but generally the stuff you read in the books did happen in this or a very similar way. That's why you often find exploits from the characters of other authors (like Hornblower, Bolitho, Kydd...) being very similar - they all take their actions from the same sources. For example I'm pretty sure that I've read the aforementioned stranding at sea by Aubrey in a Hornblower book too. Dean King's Harbors and High Seas and Sea of Words dos a great job putting all the books into context. Decius fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Jan 24, 2014 |
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Jan 24, 2014 12:04
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Aubrey also exists in a time-compressed war in which there are many more years worth of fighting for him to experience than there actually were.
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Jan 24, 2014 16:43
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Clonfert's a dummy
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Jan 27, 2014 19:36
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I've thought of Clonfert as a lot of things through the years, but a dummy isn't one of them. Which part(s) are you referring to?
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Jan 27, 2014 19:56
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ItalicSquirrels posted:I've thought of Clonfert as a lot of things through the years, but a dummy isn't one of them. Which part(s) are you referring to? the part where the French catch him with his pants down, the fort on ile de pass blows up and he gleefully says "I got them right where I want them". Pym, on horrible advice from clonfert (inferior enemy, etc.) gets everything all hosed up by losing the fort and all the big ships at the show down
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Jan 27, 2014 20:43
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Well, for a broad value of "dummy", I'd have a hard time arguing with you, but I think the real fault lies in his upbringing, not necessarily some inability that's inherent to him. Basically, because he's always been told he's the best from birth (and his mids constantly calling him "My Lord", etc. hasn't helped), he believes that he's the best and doesn't seem to think that defeat's really a possibility. And really, he wasn't defeated. He just got a grand total of nothing out of the encounter. Having half his people away didn't help matters either. Edit: Talking about the first part. The bigger bit afterwards didn't really have any problems stemming from Clonfert.
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Jan 27, 2014 21:02
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I don't know when they did it, but the Amazon ebook of Master and Commander is down to $1.99 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006C3Q6GG Other than this first one, all my other Aubrey/Maturin novels has been ebook purchases and the quality has been good, which isn't always the case for an older novel in ebook form. Picked this up for my someday re-read. EDIT: kinda wish there was a general deals thread to post this in (used to be one in Coupons & Deals but it died), I'm going to buy it for a friend or two that may enjoy these novels. PlushCow fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 02:08
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I've just started a re-read after doing the whole lot last year, good god I've forgotten what a brilliant writer O Brian is. There's almost no fat to be found in his prose style, even when he's seriously nerding out about sails or seabirds. Something I wondered about occasionally concerns all the booze that they're continually pouring down their throats (and Jack as a young man is a very thirsty chap). Do we know if the wine, brandy and beer back then was stronger, weaker or the same as stuff we guzzle nowadays? There's a scene in M&C where Maturin and James Dillon do over two bottles of brandy in an evening. I would not be able to stand, talk or breathe were I to try this. BeigeJacket fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Feb 4, 2014 |
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Feb 4, 2014 21:51
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I didn't know for a while that Small Beer has almost no alcohol in it, pretty much just enough to kill any pathogens in it. Makes a little more sense they'd have it for breakfast, knowing that. There's actually an interesting story behind how strong the Navy's rum was, which we know for a fact is 57% alcohol. As everyone who has read the books knows, stealing ship supplies was a time-honored tradition in the Royal Navy. However, taking any of the rum was going a bit too far, especially if any of the sailors found out about it. To prevent this, barrels of rum were tested to make sure they hadn't been diluted. Somehow they found out that if you soak gunpowder in a bit of rum, it will only ignite if the booze is 57% alcohol or above. Thus, the rum was 'proven' by 100 degrees, which is where we get the term and ratio of alcohol 'proof' 
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Feb 5, 2014 00:32
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BeigeJacket posted:Something I wondered about occasionally concerns all the booze that they're continually pouring down their throats (and Jack as a young man is a very thirsty chap). Do we know if the wine, brandy and beer back then was stronger, weaker or the same as stuff we guzzle nowadays? The answer is "it depends", but Navy rum was 57% alcohol as Blog Free Or Die said. As for other stuff, with spirits it's impossible to tell. Wine would have been about the same, I guess. I don't know much about wines, but fermenting anything to be higher than somewhere around 18% alcohol is nearly impossible. Beer/ale was probably about the same or maybe a bit weaker. Fractional freezing existed, but I'm pretty sure it was rare (the german Eisbock beers for instance, could be something like 13%, while regular Bock or Doppelbock would be a bit lower - but those were very strong beers even back then). e: I couldn't drink a bottle of brandy, I'd die. I can drink an equivalent amount of alcohol if it's contained in beer, although I don't. A few of my friends can drink a bottle of spirits in a night if they try. One guy does it regularly (adding a beer here and there), and perhaps unsurprisingly he's a sailor who can't drink on his ship. e2: A lot of characters in the books get falling-down sliding-under-the-table unable-to-move drunk, too. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 02:01
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Blog Free or Die posted:There's actually an interesting story behind how strong the Navy's rum was, which we know for a fact is 57% alcohol. As everyone who has read the books knows, stealing ship supplies was a time-honored tradition in the Royal Navy. However, taking any of the rum was going a bit too far, especially if any of the sailors found out about it. To prevent this, barrels of rum were tested to make sure they hadn't been diluted. Somehow they found out that if you soak gunpowder in a bit of rum, it will only ignite if the booze is 57% alcohol or above. Hmm. The story I had always heard - taken from Dick Francis' book "Proof", I will admit - was that the proof (same method, ignited with gunpowder) was used to decide if you paid the alcohol tax or not.
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Feb 5, 2014 03:38
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BeigeJacket posted:I've just started a re-read after doing the whole lot last year, good god I've forgotten what a brilliant writer O Brian is. There's almost no fat to be found in his prose style, even when he's seriously nerding out about sails or seabirds. It's not a question of strength, but of acclimation. My coworker's wife is a confirmed alcoholic and she would power through a 750ml bottle of vodka every day before she went to rehab. The thing is she was perfectly functional. Hell, she didn't have a single traffic citation. Further, my impression of that scene was that the two of them were literally talking all night, like pretty much from dusk to dawn. Your body can process a drink an hour, which would help them keep on the more sober side of things. Between the time taken and their bodies being used to alcohol (and alcohol was pretty much the only way to ensure clean drinking water short of boiling), I never found it odd that they could put down a bottle each and end up saying, "Maybe I'm drunk".
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Feb 5, 2014 13:40
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CarterUSM posted:Just started rereading the series (for probably the fifth time). I always forget about the bees (NOT THE BEES) that Stephen brings aboard at the end of "Post Captain", when Jack gets his acting command on the Lively. Never fails to make me laugh, the rough, tough sailors losing their poo poo over a paltry sixty thousand or so bees: Also, Jack's hilarious way of constantly referring to them as "reptiles". And a little later, O'Brian makes a joke, an offhand reference to them that had me in tears. It's when they've docked, and Jack is still being sought by the "bums" who will throw him into debtor's prison, if they should catch him on land. Someone asks Jack if he will be going ashore: "No. Killick will go to pick up my coxswain and some stores and salve against bee-stings; but I shall stay aboard."
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Feb 7, 2014 01:13
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As a Bernard Cornwall fan I had the M&C series recommended to me when I mentioned that I'd loved the Russel Crowe movie. I went through a phase of reading book after book and was totally captivated by the central characters and their satellites. I much preferred the sea stories to the land but the books as a whole hold up exceptionally well. The only thing that threw me was the reference to a "oval office splice" in the first book. I just had to search google to see if it was an error/typo, and was blown away to find out it wasn't. You just can't share that information with people who haven't read the books.
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Feb 20, 2014 03:50
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I'm really enjoying Pride and Prejudice a lot more after reading O'Brian. If you haven't read her stuff in a while, check it; there's a reason she was his favorite author. A lot of the little 'jokes' in the series that are dropped in background description went way over my head the first time reading the series, now I'm noticing them everywhere in Austen as well.
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Feb 20, 2014 06:44
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Blog Free or Die posted:I'm really enjoying Pride and Prejudice a lot more after reading O'Brian. If you haven't read her stuff in a while, check it; there's a reason she was his favorite author. A lot of the little 'jokes' in the series that are dropped in background description went way over my head the first time reading the series, now I'm noticing them everywhere in Austen as well. Right with you buddy. Patrick O'Brian taught me to appreciate Jane Austen. You should also check out Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell.
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Feb 20, 2014 17:13
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Austen is weird like that. I think it's because she was so specifically writing for her contemporaries that most modern readers have to be exposed to the setting through some other medium first before a lot of us can really appreciate what's going on in Austen. For me it was the BBC specials but I can see O'Brian acting as the gateway too.
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Feb 20, 2014 18:08
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I found that she was a lot more accessible after reading the Hornblower series (and watching the BBC series of the same name). I actually enjoyed reading her books, something I would never have thought 30 years ago.
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Feb 23, 2014 10:57
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I just finished Blue at the Mizzen. I started the series based on this thread's recommendation, and I know that I'll enjoy it even more the second time though. It seems like O'Brian was equally interested in almost every aspect of life, and could bring that zeal and humor to everything. So somehow it isn't a chore to sit through official dinners and tough it out through the doldrums again, even after having done it a dozen or more times before. Just an absolute joy to read. I will also say that the most shocking event of the series (for me) was Diana's offscreen death. She wasn't the most sympathetic character, but everyone in-universe had a real affection for her (as did I). Even though she jerked Stephen around pretty badly and wasn't a great mom to start. It's the only character death in a work of fiction that left me feeling exactly how the characters in the book react - that sudden inner emptiness, the childish impulse to think maybe it's all a bad dream or a mistake, crushed under the terrible knowledge that it's for real and there's nothing you can do. I felt for Stephen in a shadow of the way I might feel for a real friend. I don't typically get so emotionally involved in the books I read, so that was a surprise. But it's been a ridiculously great and even-quality ride. One battle scene in particular stands out to me, in The Surgeon's Mate, when Jack in Ariel juuust cuts off Meduse and batters her enough to let Jason close and bring her to action. The way that Jack signals to Jason's captain (revealing his identity and that he outranks him), the super tense chase, the somehow completely satisfying conclusion that Jason catches up, but that we never know if the action is decisive, or who wins, or anything else. Jack played his badass part, and it's good enough to leave it at that.
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Apr 12, 2014 21:07
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Prolonged Priapism posted:I just finished Blue at the Mizzen. I'm sorry. I felt like I lost a friend when I realized I had finished the series. I've re-read the series about 3 or 4 times now, and I always find new details I missed, new shades to each character. You'll read these many more times quote:I will also say that the most shocking event of the series (for me) was... Really? Not Bonden?
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Apr 13, 2014 00:14
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I almost included that too, it was definitely #2. No matter what they say, he won that boxing match.  It occurred to me many times, given how many people die in each book, that it was sort of strange to have so many old hands like Joe Plaice and Bonden around for so long. Then again, vastly more people live through a full career in any job than die doing it. Death is just so infrequent in our lives that losing a few men and boys each voyage gets sort of blown out of proportion - it's vastly more than we're currently used to, but was still somewhat rare. So really a lot of oldsters isn't that surprising. I guess I sort of fell in to the fallacy of "well if they've made it this far..." but of course that's true for every single person, right up until they die.On a strange sidenote, I read a random spoiler tag in this thread that seemed to indicate that Babbington would die (looking back it just must have referred to him making post and going his own way in the books and never coming back), and I spent many books anxiously waiting for the awful news. I'm very glad he never did. Same with Reade and Tom.
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Apr 13, 2014 02:41
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Prolonged Priapism posted:I almost included that too, it was definitely #2. No matter what they say, he won that boxing match. It's just unusual to fight so much. jack thinks about it a bunch of times "I'm just lucky to have so many opportunities to kick the poo poo out of the king's enemies! Any other captain would be just as badass if they were as lucky." So I'd guess that not fighting is the primary driver for longevity in naval warfare at the time and most folks just don't fight. Bonden's death really was the worst. 
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Apr 13, 2014 12:24
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Just finished the first Horatio Hornblower novel and started on the second. The main protagonist is the wettest blanket. Only way for him to get any balls would be if French or Spaniards hit him with cannons or muskets. But the parts about ships are ok, and I don't have anything better to listen to while walking and doing chores. What other wooden ships novel series are there?
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Apr 13, 2014 17:30
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Hornblower is probably the best after Aubrey/Maturin. I agree though, he does get really annoying. I was lucky enough to read Hornblower before this series, so it didn't bother me as much. Now I can't be bothered to re-read Hornblower's books. They just aren't as enjoyable having read a far superior series.
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Apr 13, 2014 17:32
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:Hornblower is probably the best after Aubrey/Maturin. drat . They just aren't as good. I had a moment of nostalgia in Forester's A Ship of the Line, when they spoke of Captain Cochrane's succesful cruises on the Mediterranean. Master and Commander almost completely, and large parts of other Aubrey-Maturin books are based on his life.
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Apr 13, 2014 17:50
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Hogge Wild posted:What other wooden ships novel series are there? The only thing I'v e found that's better than Aubrey/Maturin is pure nonfiction, like books that collect period accounts of battles, etc. Sometimes I move over to other non-ship-based historical fiction, like Mary Renault or Robert Graves.
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Apr 13, 2014 21:30
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The only thing I'v e found that's better than Aubrey/Maturin is pure nonfiction, like books that collect period accounts of battles, etc. Sometimes I move over to other non-ship-based historical fiction, like Mary Renault or Robert Graves. I've heard lots of praise for Renault, I'll try her books next. Does she write anything about triremes?
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Apr 13, 2014 21:42
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Hogge Wild posted:I've heard lots of praise for Renault, I'll try her books next. Does she write anything about triremes? It's been a while but there may be some mention of them in Last of the Wine. It's the story of two young men who fall in love (with each other, natch) during the Peloponnesian War. Her other really excellent books are Fire From Heaven (about Alexander the Great's youth and love affair with Hephaistion), The Persian Boy (written from the viewpoint of Alexander the Great's Persian love-boy), and The King Must Die (Theseus as historical fiction; surprisingly, contains almost no manlove at all).
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Apr 13, 2014 21:45
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Hogge Wild posted:Just finished the first Horatio Hornblower novel and started on the second. The main protagonist is the wettest blanket. Only way for him to get any balls would be if French or Spaniards hit him with cannons or muskets. But the parts about ships are ok, and I don't have anything better to listen to while walking and doing chores. What other wooden ships novel series are there? i actually like Atropos and Commodore. The porblem is that Beat to Quarters, etc., were the first ones written and Forester hadn't found his feet yet. I agree that Aubrey/Maturin is better, though. As my dad put it, O'Brian took Hornblower and split him up into two better characters.
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Apr 14, 2014 10:23
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Hogge Wild posted:What other wooden ships novel series are there? Not a series and not a novel, but I'm reading "Six Frigates" by Ian Toll (at the same time as Wine Dark Sea) and it's pretty darn good. I, too, am sad that there isn't anything better, and I find myself slowing way down on these last few books knowing that #21 is approaching. I might start reading Jane Austen after this. I've started trolling Craigslist for a frigate. Nothing yet, but I did find a Mutineer 15, 0 guns. Comes with trailer.
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Apr 17, 2014 21:35
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Six Frigates rocks because at one point it just straight up quotes The Fortune of War while describing the HMS Java / USS Constitution battle. It's also a very good read otherwise.
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Apr 18, 2014 00:18
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