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How fast do these components generally drop in price? Did Sony eventually make a profit on each PS3 sold? Just curious.
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Feb 4, 2014 15:07
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Basically we know that it's > 1 game, +$50 + whatever the difference is between NSMBU/SLU and Nintendoland in cost
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Feb 4, 2014 15:07
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Zack_Gochuck posted:How fast do these components generally drop in price? Did Sony eventually make a profit on each PS3 sold? Just curious. They did eventually profit from individual PS3 console sales but it took an insanely long time (mid-2010). In comparison, I think the 360 was already profitable by the time the PS3 went on sale, although I'm having trouble verifying that. At launch the PS3 was losing insane amounts of money, like each one was an over $200 loss for Sony. Someone calculated that the money Sony ended up burning was equivalent to giving every man, woman and child in the US about $40.
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Feb 4, 2014 15:10
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Zack_Gochuck posted:How fast do these components generally drop in price? Did Sony eventually make a profit on each PS3 sold? Just curious. I think it's save to assume that after almost ten years, the components in a PS3 were cheap enough for Sony to turn a prodit. I mean they sell the consoles for something like 150€ (even less on sale) now, they wouldn't do that if they cost more than 100€ to manufacture.
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Feb 4, 2014 15:10
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Shibawanko posted:I remember being drawn to the N64 more than to the PSX because of carts. Somehow jewelcase CDs felt more disposable and less fun than a big colorful block of plastic to kid-me, and I still associated them with the FMV era, which had just ended back then. I know it's a cliche but I still love cramming a cart into my Nintendo consoles because gently caress that still feels cool. I hate CDs. Always did. Whether it's music or movies or videogames, CDs just felt like a compromise the industry made for more storage. I absolutely love using SD cards because they are basically just really tiny cartridges for me. Same to flash sticks. They don't feel fragile. Also FMV never did it for me either. Even the Chrono Cross FMV I don't care for. I'd rather hit the A button to conversation bubbles than watch a pre-rendered clip.
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Feb 4, 2014 16:01
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I can't imagine either of the new consoles having high manufacturing or R&D costs because they're basically off-the-shelf AMD PCs from a few years back with a few bells and whistles. It's really strange that Nintendo seems intent on sticking with a quirky Power PC build for a future system. Calling up AMD and going "Build us one too!" might not be the most original console plan, but it would probably make the 3rd party guys very happy.
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Feb 4, 2014 16:06
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Universe Master posted:I can't imagine either of the new consoles having high manufacturing or R&D costs because they're basically off-the-shelf AMD PCs from a few years back with a few bells and whistles. It's really strange that Nintendo seems intent on sticking with a quirky Power PC build for a future system. Calling up AMD and going "Build us one too!" might not be the most original console plan, but it would probably make the 3rd party guys very happy. Unfortunately, they want to have a similar architecture to the Wii U for future hardware, to allow for easy backwards compatibility and to have something they're experienced with. This is exactly the same principle they designed the Wii and Wii U with, and they don't see it as a problem when they have to launch a console at only $50 cheaper than the PS4, but a whole generation behind and taking even more of a loss.
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Feb 4, 2014 16:17
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That loving Sned posted:Unfortunately, they want to have a similar architecture to the Wii U for future hardware, to allow for easy backwards compatibility and to have something they're experienced with. This is exactly the same principle they designed the Wii and Wii U with, and they don't see it as a problem when they have to launch a console at only $50 cheaper than the PS4, but a whole generation behind and taking even more of a loss. But it uses less power!
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Feb 4, 2014 16:21
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:I hate CDs. Always did. Whether it's music or movies or videogames, CDs just felt like a compromise the industry made for more storage. I absolutely love using SD cards because they are basically just really tiny cartridges for me. Same to flash sticks. They don't feel fragile. It'd be dumb as hell of course, but it'd be so cool if Nintendo just made a console that looked and felt like an upgraded SNES or N64. None of that shiny wind tunnel pseudo-apple crap or portability, just give me colorful plastic that fades piss yellow over time and put in dirt cheap hardware. Then make some expensive, but really good games for it, like sequels to melodramatic old RPGs that don't look like a particularly boring episode of Yu Gi Oh or whatever, and put them on hefty plastic carts that I get to shove into the thing. Silly as far as business ideas go, but I think that's just what I really want from them, to just start selling the SNES again.
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Feb 4, 2014 16:22
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Universe Master posted:I can't imagine either of the new consoles having high manufacturing or R&D costs because they're basically off-the-shelf AMD PCs from a few years back with a few bells and whistles. It's really strange that Nintendo seems intent on sticking with a quirky Power PC build for a future system. Calling up AMD and going "Build us one too!" might not be the most original console plan, but it would probably make the 3rd party guys very happy. Based on recent comments it's more likely they call up people who worked on Android's and Apple's and try to make it exactly like the next cell phones. Or an older cell phone. The next Nintendo system might just be a Samsung Galaxy II.
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Feb 4, 2014 16:32
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Based on recent comments it's more likely they call up people who worked on Android's and Apple's and try to make it exactly like the next cell phones. Or an older cell phone. The next Nintendo system might just be a Samsung Galaxy II. Nintendo buys Ouya.
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Feb 4, 2014 16:38
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Universe Master posted:I can't imagine either of the new consoles having high manufacturing or R&D costs because they're basically off-the-shelf AMD PCs from a few years back with a few bells and whistles.
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Feb 4, 2014 16:40
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Universe Master posted:I can't imagine either of the new consoles having high manufacturing or R&D costs because they're basically off-the-shelf AMD PCs from a few years back with a few bells and whistles. It's really strange that Nintendo seems intent on sticking with a quirky Power PC build for a future system. Calling up AMD and going "Build us one too!" might not be the most original console plan, but it would probably make the 3rd party guys very happy. Well they specifically cited Apple on how they have iOS which is their operating system which has worked great for making software compatible across all devices, but in terms of their Mac OS they are forgetting that Apple had to transition away from Power PC technology which took a bit over 3 years. And yeah, there was a time when it sucked because my Power PC application didn't work on my Intel based system, but now it's all for the better. I am hoping that because the Game Pad has not been successful, that for the next console they abandon support for it in terms of backwards compatibility and can make the switch away from Power PC. Or at least when they talk about unifying the OSs on both systems, that they are talking about future systems and actually taking advantage of it with things like crossplay. But of course, I fully expect them to not do any of that stuff and continue to support PowerPC because of backwards compatibility. Astro7x fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Feb 4, 2014 |
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Feb 4, 2014 17:03
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SLOSifl posted:That's not really true at all. The chips in both systems are custom. They couldn't really call up AMD and ask for the same thing without a relatively heavy investment. They aren't literally "off-the-shelf" of course, but the Jaguar cores are only semi-custom.
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Feb 4, 2014 17:10
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That loving Sned posted:Unfortunately, they want to have a similar architecture to the Wii U for future hardware, to allow for easy backwards compatibility and to have something they're experienced with. If their next console isn't x86 won't it be a ton of effort for third parties to port anything to it?
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Feb 4, 2014 17:12
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Atomicated posted:If their next console isn't x86 won't it be a ton of effort for third parties to port anything to it? Maybe moreso, maybe less so, depending on how and if they develop PowerPC further. But there would still probably be more effort involved than third parties would really like, which was why the average Wii port of a game tended to be bare bones and really failing to push the hardware - Goldeneye is probably one of the closest to having been 'basically the same, with less graphical horsepower'.
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Feb 4, 2014 17:20
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I just noticed I have a title under my name. So a thank you to whomever gave it to me.Bobnumerotres posted:If they're buying buildings does that necessarily mean new development studios are opening up or it could be just about anything? They could always re-open the love hotels. This expansion aims to improve the efficiency of existing teams rather than to create new teams. According to Iwata, Nintendo has been increasing its headcount to the point that the limited size of their offices has impacted development. It goes beyond just game development in that manufacturing, support, and clerical are also feeling constrained. For example, Intelligent Systems moved from Nintendo Kyoto Research Institute to its own building back in October. It was most likely due to their head count increasing significantly during and after Fire Emblem Awakening's development and the Kyoto office operating at peak capacity. I don't think we'll see old teams take on multiple projects as most of Nintendo's current projects require lots of manpower. As another example, the new Monolith Soft Studio in Kyoto is actually a support team rather than a new 3DS development team as originally believed. They mostly an art asset creation team, such as their work on Animal Crossing New Leaf, A Link Between Worlds, and presumably 'X' with the core Monolith Soft team. It's similar to how 1-UP Studio (formerly Brownie Brown) has changed from a handheld development studio to a support studio. The other goal is to have R&D centralized around one building (Nintendo Kyoto Development Complex) rather than having it split between Kyoto Research Institute and Nintendo Central Office. The Nintendo Kyoto Development Complex is solely a R&D building as opposed to a R&D/clerical building like the other two Kyoto offices. Iwata has suggested that this new building will handle the most of future R&D projects with the two remaining Kyoto buildings acting as support.
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Feb 4, 2014 17:35
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How do large developers here handle it? I always assumed they just rent out office space and set up cubicle farms. I'm guessing office rental may be somewhat more expensive in Japan.
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Feb 4, 2014 18:28
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Zack_Gochuck posted:How fast do these components generally drop in price? Did Sony eventually make a profit on each PS3 sold? Just curious. According to Ben Cousins, the XBox 360 and PS3 ended up being a combined $8 billion loss: http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/8bn-the-total-losses-made-by-xbox-360-and-ps3/0108917 So even if they eventually made a profit on the PS3, they never recovered from how much they spent.
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Feb 4, 2014 21:42
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Zack_Gochuck posted:Nintendo buys Ouya. It's a match made in heaven! Paper Jam Dipper posted:I hate CDs. Always did. Whether it's music or movies or videogames, CDs just felt like a compromise the industry made for more storage. I absolutely love using SD cards because they are basically just really tiny cartridges for me. Same to flash sticks. They don't feel fragile. It was also cheaper, and the most successful console of the N64's generation used them. Outside of load times (which got alleviated more as the generation went on and people learned to deal with them), there were games that were on other platforms that the N64 flat out could not do because of the limited storage. That, ultimately, is more important. Compromises shouldn't be looked at as an inherently bad thing when it comes to hardware. In an often repeated theme for the company, Nintendo did not have the interests of third parties in mind when they stuck with carts. When a compromise actually affects the quality of your product to such a degree that it's hurting on the market, that's when there is a problem. See the Wii U for an example: unlike the Wii, there's very little on the Wii U to distract from all the deficiencies of the hardware, deficiencies caused because Nintendo sacrificed a lot just to make a quieter, low-power draw system. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Feb 4, 2014 |
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Feb 4, 2014 23:32
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fivegears4reverse posted:Nintendo sacrificed a lot just to make a quieter, low-power draw system. What is the point of this anyway? Did someone in upper management just get hooked on this idea and no one felt they could say anything?
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Feb 5, 2014 00:16
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:According to Ben Cousins, the XBox 360 and PS3 ended up being a combined $8 billion loss: http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/8bn-the-total-losses-made-by-xbox-360-and-ps3/0108917 If that article is true, it makes me wonder what the benefits are for Sony and Microsoft to even be in the console business. And it makes me feel really bad for Nintendo who generally puts up for a lot of poo poo for having an unprofitable year, when they are going up against companies that can take huge risks and have products that that sell at great losses, all for the sake of pretty much having their brand be a household name. I do question how they get those numbers, because financial reports generally group all of Microsoft's consume electronic devices together (like the failed tablets and mobile phones), and I have no idea how they account for things like Sony's movie and music services that are sold through the Playstation Store. I mean Sony even goes as far as lumping the Vita and PS3/PS4 data all together because they don't want people to know just how bad it's doing.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:23
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Iwata speaking to gamers before release:quote:The other thing is, shortly after the Wii console was released, people in the gaming media and game enthusiasts started recognising the Wii console as a casual machine aimed toward families, and placed game consoles by Microsoft and Sony in a very similar light with each other, saying these are machines aimed towards those who passionately play games. It was a categorisation between games that were aimed towards core, and casual. I've been having a sense of disagreement as I personally think the definition of a core gamer is much wider, namely, someone who has a much wider range of interests, someone who enthusiastically plays many types of games that challenge different creative directions. On the other hand, I certainly do not think that Wii was able to cater to every gamer's needs, so that's also something I wanted to resolve. The keyword for our presentation at this year's E3 is "Deeper and Wider". With Wii U, I would like to offer this proposal with that concept. Of course, with the Wii console I'm sure everyone would agree that we tried really hard to go wider, but even though we worked aggressively to go deeper in certain areas, the general public's impression that Nintendo was casual grew as time went by. Iwata speaking to investors after release: quote:I believe not many consumers wavered between Wii U and those new consoles from other companies because I believe that our user demographics are different to a certain degree. This is what annoys me about the promises of the Wii U the most. After hardcore gamers were snubbed with the Wii, its sucessor was supposed to accommodate them once again. Once it was released, it became apparent that either there was no real knowledge of what the hardcore market needed in a console, or that there was no real intention to satisfy this.
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Feb 5, 2014 01:05
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The N64 damaged the Nintendo brand, as sine then it's seen as a platform for first party titles and nothing more. It is really going to be hard for Nintendo to break that stigma, even if they fix everything that is wrong with the Wii U in their next console
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Feb 5, 2014 01:08
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AngryCaterpillar posted:Today I learned Nintendo is for babies. Babies with $300 to spare. Nintendo's market: Children and Manchildren
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Feb 5, 2014 01:10
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Astro7x posted:If that article is true, it makes me wonder what the benefits are for Sony and Microsoft to even be in the console business. And it makes me feel really bad for Nintendo who generally puts up for a lot of poo poo for having an unprofitable year, when they are going up against companies that can take huge risks and have products that that sell at great losses, all for the sake of pretty much having their brand be a household name. Well, thing is, both companies have had an involvement with gaming prior to the Seventh Gen in some form or another, and its really maintaining that, as well as having an easy reference point in people's homes for when they consider other products, that keeps them in. With Sony, they originally had a partnership planned with Nintendo to actually develop a CD-based hardware system for the latter, but for one reason or another, it fell apart (as this thread has shown, Nintendo doesn't have the best track record interacting with other companies). Sony took what they had and reworked it into becoming the Playstation, deciding that they might just have a shot in a marketplace then dominated by Sega and Nintendo - and they were certainly right. Playstation dominated its generation, and its successor went on to dominate the one thereafter. They've had too much success in the past to simply try and toss it aside now. Microsoft meanwhile has seen the benefits of gaming since the days of DOOM - it was estimated at one point that more machines were playing a then new but controversial FPS, than they had Microsoft 95 installed on them. This set about Bill Gates driving his company to try and capitalise on this by porting the game to their OS, starting their involvement with PC Gaming. But as console gaming became increasingly mainstream, and given Microsoft's general MO of trying to be seen as THE tech guys, them throwing themselves in was the inevitable result.
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Feb 5, 2014 01:17
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oscitancy posted:What is the point of this anyway? Did someone in upper management just get hooked on this idea and no one felt they could say anything? Japanese company run by Japanese old men. It is in the best interest of anyone not at the top to not question them. Astro7x posted:If that article is true, it makes me wonder what the benefits are for Sony and Microsoft to even be in the console business. And it makes me feel really bad for Nintendo who generally puts up for a lot of poo poo for having an unprofitable year, when they are going up against companies that can take huge risks and have products that that sell at great losses, all for the sake of pretty much having their brand be a household name. The source article itself is another GAMING IS MOVING TO MOBILE, CONSOLES ARE DED doomsayer piece. That's not to say that there isn't a significant market for the games iOS and Android provide, there totally is! It's not like consoles are going to disappear overnight, or even worldwide, though. Until mobile devices can satisfy the people who look for the kinds of games and experiences that full PCs or consoles can provide, there's going to be a place for dedicated gaming platforms. One of the big points that some folks like to point to is Japan, how it's transitioning to mobile devices, and how consoles are 'dead' there. I think we ought to wait and see how the PS4 actually performs before we make that statement with any sort of certainty. The PS3 is still selling decently for such an old platform there. The Wii could still be selling well if it had gotten better support over the last two years. I'd say that pointing to the Wii U as a sign of "what's coming" is ridiculous. The Wii U collapsed in Japan because it's a lovely product that provides no reason for more people to get excited for the system, outside of the faithful. The newest Nintendo console struggling out the door in japan is far from a death knell for consoles worldwide. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 01:25
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That loving Sned posted:I'm trying to piece together what Nintendo actually wants their console to succeed in. They want to have a unified platform like Apple phones/tablets and Android devices, but have done absolutely nothing with console-handheld connectivity since the Gamecube. They want to get into Quality of Life software, but a console isn't a good platform for that type of product, especially if they make a loss because those people don't buy more than one game for it.
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Feb 5, 2014 03:03
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Astro Nut posted:Playstation dominated its generation, and its successor went on to dominate the one thereafter. They've had too much success in the past to simply try and toss it aside now. And that's why I keep coming back to the question of "what is success?" if the divisions are not profitable. I mean it's not unheard of to have a successful company that is unprofitable, just look at Twitter which has never turned a profit but has a market valuation of 14 Billion. But I don't get what the end game for the Playstation or XBox is if they truly are not profitable.
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Feb 5, 2014 03:07
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That loving Sned posted:They're supposed to be helping indie developers, but the Vita shits all over its indie catalogue. Nintendo's indie policies are really, genuinely good, particularly in regards to Wii U, and it's one of the few areas where they're at parity with the other consoles, but in typical Nintendo fashion they don't make any real effort to tell anyone about any of their initiatives.
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Feb 5, 2014 03:08
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Astro7x posted:And that's why I keep coming back to the question of "what is success?" if the divisions are not profitable. I mean it's not unheard of to have a successful company that is unprofitable, just look at Twitter which has never turned a profit but has a market valuation of 14 Billion. But I don't get what the end game for the Playstation or XBox is if they truly are not profitable. Look no matter how much you massage the word 'success' Nintendo's home console business is not it. It's neither profitable nor does it have a decent market share. It's a trainwreck. The idea that Xbox and Playstation are going to just pop out of existence any day now because "BUT PROFIT!!!!!!" is incredibly amusing to me. Do you think Twitter or Facebook are going to go extinct? icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 03:20
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Astro7x posted:If that article is true, it makes me wonder what the benefits are for Sony and Microsoft to even be in the console business. Guessing, but I think Sony's console division did pretty well in the PS1 and PS2 era. So it was worth going into the PS3 stuff, even if they lost a bunch of money this time. And so far the PS4 is knocking it out of the park. Even if the PS3 lost a shitload of money, it did so much in terms of solidifying Blu-Ray as THE format going forward. So even if they lost some money in one place, it earned them a bunch more money elsewhere.
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Feb 5, 2014 05:41
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And Microsoft's continued attempts to be a consumer product company means that they have an interest in getting people to use the Xbox One as their media hub, uniting many of their services.
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Feb 5, 2014 06:06
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Astro Nut posted:With Sony, they originally had a partnership planned with Nintendo to actually develop a CD-based hardware system for the latter, but for one reason or another, it fell apart (as this thread has shown, Nintendo doesn't have the best track record interacting with other companies). Sony took what they had and reworked it into becoming the Playstation, deciding that they might just have a shot in a marketplace then dominated by Sega and Nintendo - and they were certainly right. Playstation dominated its generation, and its successor went on to dominate the one thereafter. They've had too much success in the past to simply try and toss it aside now. Here's the best part of the whole Nintendo-Sony partnership and what happened. There's no real concrete explanation why but people suspect that Nintendo didn't want to give Sony as much control and as large a share of the profits as the arrangement did, so they partnered up with Philips at the last moment. At CES, Sony announces the Play-station as a SNES cartridge/CD system. The next day, surprise announcement from Nintendo about their partnership with Philips.
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Feb 5, 2014 06:14
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Also the PS3 was a success in the sense of helping Blu-Ray to become more prevalent over HD-DVD, if I'm not mistaken.
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Feb 5, 2014 06:14
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icantfindaname posted:The idea that Xbox and Playstation are going to just pop out of existence any day now because "BUT PROFIT!!!!!!" is incredibly amusing to me. Do you think Twitter or Facebook are going to go extinct? Of course not... I did forget stuff like the huge stake Sony had in making Bluray the defacto format for movies, which was probably worth taking a huge hit on PS3s simply to make the format so popular. I know I had a PS3 the very first year and didn't buy a single game for it because I used it as just a Bluray player
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Feb 5, 2014 06:17
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Astro7x posted:If that article is true, it makes me wonder what the benefits are for Sony and Microsoft to even be in the console business. Microsoft are just kind of throwing money at muscling their way into people's living rooms, as they've done with many other things.
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Feb 5, 2014 06:34
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AngryCaterpillar posted:This is what annoys me about the promises of the Wii U the most. After hardcore gamers were snubbed with the Wii, its sucessor was supposed to accommodate them once again. Once it was released, it became apparent that either there was no real knowledge of what the hardcore market needed in a console, or that there was no real intention to satisfy this. In fairness to Nintendo, only a total idiot would have actually believed them with the titles they chose to show off at its first E3 and their history from the N64 onward so why not lie? Cliff Racer fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 11:46
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I think xbox 360 never made money the same way Return of the Jedi "never made money" according to 20th century Fox's books. Because really, when such a large percentage of your owners is paying you 6 bucks a month how can you not?
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Feb 5, 2014 12:38
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AngryCaterpillar posted:This is what annoys me about the promises of the Wii U the most. After hardcore gamers were snubbed with the Wii, its sucessor was supposed to accommodate them once again. Once it was released, it became apparent that either there was no real knowledge of what the hardcore market needed in a console, or that there was no real intention to satisfy this. I think this is really the problem. Nintendo wants to give us what we want, they're just utterly clueless as to what that is. This is basically what I figured would happen during the last few years of the Wii's life, when they had games that the hardcore in America would want, and they had translations, and there were huge petition drives to bring them over, and NOA just went "nah, we're not going after your market anymore." And then when they finally did bring them over, Xenoblade got a limited print run that was only sold at GameStop and got no advertising. I also think that the handheld market is shrinking, but it will not die, because its competition are phone games. And phone games are, to put it mildly, complete loving poo poo. Some of it is okay if you just want to keep the kids quiet while you're waiting at a restaurant or whatever, but most of it is cashgrab garbage like the Dungeon Keeper game mentioned earlier, or the My Little Pony game, or mindless swill like Final Fantasy: All the Bravest. Which has less gameplay than Fruit Ninja, because at least in Fruit Ninja, you need to pay attention to what you're swiping. Now, as a caveat, I won't say that there can't be good games on phones, but "there can be" is a pretty long walk from "there are." Which, to veer subjects again, is the major reason the Wii U isn't selling. It's not that people don't want to buy Nintendo games, or even that people don't want to buy consoles to play Nintendo games. They don't want to buy consoles that only play Nintendo games, because Nintendo has made Wii U development fairly unappealing. I mean, why even bother? Even overlooking any difficulties with the development tools, you can't port PS4/Bone games to it, because it lacks the muscle. And if you're going to dial back the specs so you can stick it on the Wii U, why not stick it on the PS3/360, which already have massive install bases? And that brings me to Mass Effect 3 on Wii U. Who was this actually for? It was a re-release of a year old game for a console that hadn't gotten either of the prior two. Anybody who gave a crap had already played it on the 360/PS3/PC, where they'd played the first two games. In order for someone to buy this game, they'd either need to re-buy it, which I suspect most of the people had, or be curious enough to want to play it, not curious enough to give a crap about 1 or 2, and not own one of the other systems for which they could buy the game for half as much. Deus Ex had the same hurdle to overcome on the Wii U, but at least it didn't have the "finale of a trilogy" baggage, to say nothing of the whole "ME3's ending is so bad it made real news outlets" thing.
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