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HerrMorden posted:Speaking of lists, one of the dudes who posts in my Local Gaming Group sent us this today. Well, he's right on the special formation- it gives Tank Hunters and Preferred Enemy (Space Marines) to two of the best units in the codex for free, which is just dumb. If it weren't for the Fireblade Cadre, dataslate formations would be fine, but the Tau had to go and ruin it for everyone. Farsight Enclave, though, isn't really a problem at all. yes, they do get Crisis suits as troops, but they do have to pay a tax on almost every model they take and they don't have access to the usual Tau special gear options or warlord table, instead having their own different (worse) stuff. And yeah, 3 Riptides + 9 broadsides + suits is gonna cost you about a billion points, so it's not actually something you would see on the field. Cataphract posted:To play devil's advocate. I can understand the issue because it demonstrates that the player has a WAAC attitude. They painted up a Blood Angels army when it was king of the hill but now they want it to count as this week's optimum build. If we're just playing a casual game, just play Blood Angels. I see people complain about this all the time, but I've never actually met this fictional Always Playing the Latest Codex guy.
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Feb 5, 2014 06:04
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Noctis Horrendae posted:gently caress. $430 for 800 points? Maybe I'll pass this up. Even regular guardsmen aren't cheap, but a Death Korps of Krieg army is in a whole different league and not for the faint of heart. Or non-millionaires.
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Feb 5, 2014 06:12
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If you can bolster the DK army with some cheap tanks + DK commander minis you could end up with more of a real army. But you'd still have spent $500 for a relatively small force, unfortunately. Alternatively just get these guys http://www.wargamesfactory.com/webstore/alien-suns/shock-troops-sci-fi-greatcoat-troopers
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Feb 5, 2014 06:27
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Cataphract posted:To play devil's advocate. I can understand the issue because it demonstrates that the player has a WAAC attitude. They painted up a Blood Angels army when it was king of the hill but now they want it to count as this week's optimum build. If we're just playing a casual game, just play Blood Angels. I don't understand this at all. What does it matter if the dude with a Bolter is red with wings on the pauldron or blue with a fist?
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Feb 5, 2014 06:34
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Has anybody built/painted a set of the new Tyrant Guard and also maybe have pictures of them next to a Space Marine/the old Tyrant Guards/The Swarmlord for comparison? I'm out of things to paint (not really I just don't want to paint what I do have because the chance of me using those units is practically 0%) and I have a goofy for fun Tyranid list in mind which includes The Swarmlord and a trio of Tyrant Guard but I can't find any decent pictures of them other than the GW stock pictures. I haven't seen anything "50mm size" in person but my brain wants them to be almost as big/tall as a walking Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord for some reason which would be awesome.
Pacheeco fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 08:34
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I don't understand this at all. What does it matter if the dude with a Bolter is red with wings on the pauldron or blue with a fist? Because it's pure Douchery to theme your army Blood Angels then jump to Black Templars because they have Better / newer rules without going through the effort of painting them such. It's in the nuance, if his army is red but is themed as an offshoot of the Templars then it's cool.
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Feb 5, 2014 09:10
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AbusePuppy posted:I see people complain about this all the time, but I've never actually met this fictional Always Playing the Latest Codex guy. I know that guy. He's not very good at doing it though. When his Necrons started losing he immediately went and bought a load of Demons, managed to get talked into buying stuff like Bloodcrushers instead of anything useful, got mad when he still couldn't win games (after one defeat where he was screwed by the Warp Storm table), sold them and bought Tau because he'd lost a load of times to Tau and decided he was going to do the Farsight Bomb but differently. He would add R'Alai to it. When I pointed out you can't add R'Alai to units like he was trying to he declared his strategy ruined, sold all the Tau, sold all his Necrons and is now playing Dark Angels. EDIT: I forgot, between the Tau and Dark Angels he bought a shitload of Mantic Forgefathers, first to use as Space Marines, then to use as Squats using a ridiculous home-made codex, then when nobody wanted to play against his custom rules sold those too.
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Feb 5, 2014 09:14
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Blacktoll posted:Because it's pure Douchery to theme your army Blood Angels then jump to Black Templars because they have Better / newer rules without going through the effort of painting them such. It's in the nuance, if his army is red but is themed as an offshoot of the Templars then it's cool. what if people don't have the time/money/inclination to paint up a whole new army but are tired of the same old rules and want to try something new? You're painting spacemen, not getting married for time and all eternity. This is a ridiculous attitude. If you bought DA when they were shiny and new and they don't really click for you don't let anybody give you poo poo for calling them green space marines.
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Feb 5, 2014 09:18
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Too bad, you must obey the King of Warhammer and drop 500 bucks on a new army comprised mostly of the same models you already own, douche. It's cute when people tell you that you're playing with your tiny spaceman incorrectly. A strong stroke is key. e: whining about "WAAC" gamers and dictating how you should be playing with your own miniatures that you bought and painted yourself seem to go hand in hand, hmmm who is the real problem here? makes you think full disclosure: i own Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, and a small DA force with no model sharing / proxying involved. yes it's sad Phyresis fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 09:24
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I don't care if someone uses their marines as whatever chapter, but doing so specifically to gain an advantage over a particular opponent (like the aforementioned Crimson Fists vs. Orks) is just obnoxious.
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Feb 5, 2014 09:26
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Ojetor posted:I don't care if someone uses their marines as whatever chapter, but doing so specifically to gain an advantage over a particular opponent (like the aforementioned Crimson Fists vs. Orks) is just obnoxious. What's obnoxious is that these army-hosing rules exist in the first place but my post was not meant to endorse this kind of behavior.
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Feb 5, 2014 09:30
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Ojetor posted:I don't care if someone uses their marines as whatever chapter, but doing so specifically to gain an advantage over a particular opponent (like the aforementioned Crimson Fists vs. Orks) is just obnoxious. Yeah, there's trying new rules just for fun and then there's being a dick. As long as the models make sense, and it's not done at the last second for advantage vs my army it's all good. If I were to play someone whose Imperial Fists are Black Templars today, that's fine so long as I don't have to keep remembering that this squad is a tactical squad while THIS identical squad is an assault squad. At the same time, it's easy enough to say that a Deathwing squad represents storm shield terminators, so long as that's the only squad in terminator armour that I have to keep track of. Models make the difference, not exactly colour scheme.
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Feb 5, 2014 10:41
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Pacheeco posted:Has anybody built/painted a set of the new Tyrant Guard and also maybe have pictures of them next to a Space Marine/the old Tyrant Guards/The Swarmlord for comparison? I'm out of things to paint (not really I just don't want to paint what I do have because the chance of me using those units is practically 0%) and I have a goofy for fun Tyranid list in mind which includes The Swarmlord and a trio of Tyrant Guard but I can't find any decent pictures of them other than the GW stock pictures. I haven't seen anything "50mm size" in person but my brain wants them to be almost as big/tall as a walking Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord for some reason which would be awesome. The new Tyrant Guard are pretty much the same size as the old ones- I haven't actually put them next to each other, but having held the models, they are very close. The "flanges" give them a slightly larger profile and since they are on 50mm rather than 40mm bases their stances are slightly more spread out, but by and large they are the same.
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Feb 5, 2014 10:52
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AbusePuppy posted:The new Tyrant Guard are pretty much the same size as the old ones- I haven't actually put them next to each other, but having held the models, they are very close. The "flanges" give them a slightly larger profile and since they are on 50mm rather than 40mm bases their stances are slightly more spread out, but by and large they are the same. That's kind of a bummer, they look way bigger than the old models. I'll more than likely get a box anyways. Tyrant Guard are almost mandatory for walking HTs/Swarmlord and the models are cool looking. Pacheeco fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 11:24
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I prefer the old models because they look like little walking tanks. The new ones are good, but look too much like hive guard with huge, flared shoulders. While the new weapons options are nice, I don't see myself ever paying 20 points for bonesword/lashwhip or crushing claws on things that are little more than extra wounds for a hive tyrant. If they make it to the enemy, great, they still have rending claws. If they don't, well, I guess they did their job.
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Feb 5, 2014 11:34
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Ojetor posted:I don't care if someone uses their marines as whatever chapter, but doing so specifically to gain an advantage over a particular opponent (like the aforementioned Crimson Fists vs. Orks) is just obnoxious. I think everyone has list tailoring problems. Going up against a mech army? Bring extra melta. Flyer heavy? Definitely take the quad gun. We try to resolve this in our store by having people bring pre-made lists. It cuts down on setup time and makes the lists more balanced.
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Feb 5, 2014 12:45
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I don't understand this at all. What does it matter if the dude with a Bolter is red with wings on the pauldron or blue with a fist? In a vacuum; nothing at all. If you're a cool dude and we have a good time I don't care if you play with salt and pepper shakers. The thing is though, that in my experience, the kinds of people who hop from codex to codex are, generally, not cool dudes. It's a red flag for me, when a guy puts down a lovely looking chaos army but says that they're actually grey knights my eyes roll cause it's a pretty decent indicator that I'm not going to have a good time. Same as when someone slaps down a hastily painted, 3 colour, army or hands over the latest netlist.
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Feb 5, 2014 13:38
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Noctis Horrendae posted:45 guardsmen isn't enough? Surely that's enough to blob my way to victory. :?: Noone seemed to pick up on this, but there are no blobs in the DKoK assault brigade list. You can't do combined squads. Edit: As to the whole chapter-hopping marines, the issue is with general benefit vs particular match-up armies. It'd be great if the Preferred Enemy rules were changed to include a benefit and a detriment. Like reroll to hit, but must charge the nearest unit or something. Since when did hating somoene make you an especially crack shot anyway? Sardine Wit fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 13:45
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Sardine Wit posted:Noone seemed to pick up on this, but there are no blobs in the DKoK assault brigade list. You can't do combined squads. Hating dudes is covered by the 'Hatred' rule, oddly enough. Preferred Enemy I'd more 'experienced fighting against'.
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Feb 5, 2014 14:12
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Cataphract posted:In a vacuum; nothing at all. If you're a cool dude and we have a good time I don't care if you play with salt and pepper shakers. I understand you frustration but the alternative is for people to be better at painting and or buy tons of models. Both are unrealistic to expect out of normal people. The barrier of entry is already bad and getting worse, this is only going to continue. Maybe he really wants to play Grey Knights and use this list he gave you, but he is not sure since it is kinda new right now. So he could spend all this free income and free time buying and painting an entire army before ever playtesting the list, or you could let it slide. Provided that things are not out of hand, things should make sense and not stretch the imagination too much. I made a big count-as army with Chaos Grey Knights but that was the idea from the beginning. It made me a better painter and I had a lot of fun with the experience, then 6th edition happened. Oh well. A bit of a derail but, and I'm not saying that it has been said here, whenever I hear people complaining about people trying to win games I have to ask them, "Why are you mad, did YOU want to win instead?" The way people get upset about loosing is silly to me, I lose all the time and I actually play to win. Nice work on their part for beating    *I hope my painting has improved since here...
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Feb 5, 2014 14:12
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will blow your mind.
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Yeah, I don't understand some of the mentality surrounding the whole "ugh how dare he proxy an army of power armored blue guys as power armored red guys, what a douche!" That's stupid as gently caress. Also, the idea that someone who wants to play with good rules is an rear end in a top hat is crazy to me. Yeah, Blood Angels players probably do want to use C:SM rules, because they're actually written for the current game edition and do some cool poo poo. But no, clearly this makes them a powergaming douchelord for daring to want to use updated rules. Like, seriously, if you"know" that the second someone puts down an army that's proxying another one, you're going to have a bad game: it's you. You are the problem in that scenario.
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Feb 5, 2014 14:22
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I don't really care about proxying models as long as it's clear, but when an opponent's Ultramarines army that had hitherto been an Ultramarines army and which I had played against while it was Ultramarines army was suddenly a Crimson Fist army, yes, it's annoying. The issue isn't 'he wants to play with good rules', it's 'he saw my army and suddenly he wants to play with different rules'.
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Feb 5, 2014 14:43
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I just think in general a lot of the preferred enemy, hatred, (army) rules are incredibly dumb. Like, either it's a convenient bonus for going up against an army or completely pointless. Like the number of times that Eldar - Slaanesh rule has come into play must be like .01% It really should be a more broad counter that's incorporated into a unit's tactics and points. Like for the Fists it'd be much better if they had something like preferred enemy( infantry out of cover, to represent them mowing down hordes) or something else not like what we have now. Unless it's a special mission or whatever, those race specific rules bring absolutely no extra value- entertainment or tactical to the game.
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Feb 5, 2014 14:51
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That's not the scenario most people are talking about, though. I agree, list tailoring is lovely, and honestly I usually just decline to play if my opponent doesn't have a list ready to go because I am impatient as poo poo and don't enjoy standing around for 20 minutes while someone figures out a list. The rise of smartphones has helped some, but at least where I play, 95% of the players have a list ready to go when they show up.
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Feb 5, 2014 14:54
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WhiteOutMouse posted:I understand you frustration but the alternative is for people to be better at painting and or buy tons of models. Both are unrealistic to expect out of normal people. I've played a few dudes who have used proxies that have been absolute gentlemen. Also played lovely guys with poorly painted armies. The situations you described are perfectly reasonable and would have little issue playing your hypothetical person. However, in my experience (20 years in the hobby), those kinds of people are outliers. And I've found that people who take pride in their hobby and have selected their army for reasons beyond power level in the current meta are generally more fun to play against and are less likely to be toilets. And yeah, sure, I like to win. I win more often than I lose and I frequently place in tournaments (with Chaos no less). I don't begrudge another player for wanting to win a gam,. I don't get mad if I lose but I get disappointed if I don't have a good time. I'd much rather lose and have a good natter with a bloke with a nice army and list than win against a man child covered in dandruff who's spattered paint across some hastily assembled army of the month.
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Feb 5, 2014 15:11
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After all, the minis are just proxies for the REAL power-armored superhumans/soul-warping daemons/ancient robot zombies/etc. that totally exist in the real world and should be accurately represented lest they get angry. Honestly, though, all the armies I [try to] collect and play are chosen purely based on aesthetics, i.e. "would this be cool to paint/look at when painted." If you stick with it, there will EVENTUALLY be a span of a year or so (intersection of new edition, new codex, new rules errata, opponents being stoned for a year, whatever) when your favorite army is the best one out there, whereas it ALWAYS looks cool (to you). But I proxy models all the time to see how another army might work. Doesn't everyone?
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Feb 5, 2014 15:31
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Thundercracker posted:I just think in general a lot of the preferred enemy, hatred, (army) rules are incredibly dumb. Like, either it's a convenient bonus for going up against an army or completely pointless. Like the number of times that Eldar - Slaanesh rule has come into play must be like .01% That's true but the Eldar example there is one of the best in the game. Normally, if you give a special rule tailoring one army against another you need to either a) charge points for it, which makes you overcosted when you aren't playing against them of b) free, which means you're undercosted. The Eldar example (And the old Grey Knights/Daemons rule) is great though because it provides a potentially internally balanced positive and negative effect. It has no impact outside of the Eldar/Slaanesh match up but in the odd chance you do play Eldar v Slaanesh it meaningfully changes how it works and that's neat. IT encourages you to make a Slaanesh army if your mate is Eldar, or whatever. Crimson Fists being better against Orks has nothing like that at all, if you pick Crimson Fists because your mate is an Ork then you're not ~*~ forging a narrative ~*~ you're being a jerk.
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Feb 5, 2014 15:57
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Cataphract posted:However, in my experience (20 years in the hobby), those kinds of people are outliers. I guess I have found rather the opposite- even if there are lots of weirdos in this hobby, most people are, at the end of the day, fairly decent if you treat them decent. You're much more likely to find someone who is just bad at painting or doesn't have the time to invest "properly" in the hobby than you are to find someone who is a genuine rear end in a top hat.
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Feb 5, 2014 15:58
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Crimson Fists are just reroll 1s on bolters and tank hunters on Devastators, they have no particular advantage over Orks.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:00
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Kantor gives PE:O.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:04
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Then he was never planning on running the army as Ultramarines?
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Feb 5, 2014 16:09
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Or he had a generic space marine HQ that he said was Kantor?
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Feb 5, 2014 16:10
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You're talking about list tailoring then, not specifically running one type of marines as another type.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:13
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I had been looking into doing the Third Street Saints idea that someone posted a while back as a color scheme, but it looks like SoB transfers are a thing of the past. If I really want to do this, should I just suck it up and learn to freehand these bad boys? Do people even use transfer sheets anymore?
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Feb 5, 2014 16:13
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MasterSlowPoke posted:You're talking about list tailoring then, not specifically running one type of marines as another type. I never said I had a problem with 'running one type of Marines as another' as long as it was clear and consistent.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:15
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Transfer sheets can be cool but I can never get mine to look right. They always fold up on themselves.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:15
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Where's a good place to buy plasticard online?
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Feb 5, 2014 16:21
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:I never said I had a problem with 'running one type of Marines as another' as long as it was clear and consistent. That's what everyone else is talking about, though.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:31
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PantsOptional posted:I had been looking into doing the Third Street Saints idea that someone posted a while back as a color scheme, but it looks like SoB transfers are a thing of the past. If I really want to do this, should I just suck it up and learn to freehand these bad boys? Do people even use transfer sheets anymore? I think I've got a big stack of SoB sheets here somewhere.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:36
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Where's a good place to buy plasticard online?
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Feb 5, 2014 16:37
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