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Slow Motion posted:No. Learn basic finance. 
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Feb 5, 2014 18:24
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Slow Motion posted:No. Learn basic finance. Receiving money is not the same as earning it. You need to set a budget that takes money received the previous month and uses it to plan expenses for the current month. That's it. You just here right now tried to convince us that your spending was $1500 less than it was, because you consider yourself a magician at massaging figures and retconning expenses. You're not fooling anybody here. We understand these distinctions you're making. We really really do. That's why we can see past the smoke and mirrors. So stop it already. Slow Motion posted:The minimum is the interest plus some amount of principal. So my $140 minimum last month was $71 in interest and $69 towards principal. For my financial planning I want to recognize the $71 interest as an expense and the $69 towards principal as debt reduction. I'm not sure how to help you differentiate in your spreadsheet because you just want to juggle numbers and you're great at ignoring advice. So what's the point, really? Old Fart fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 18:26
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Money received in January accounted for bonus payout I believe. So although everything is super cryptic I think it makes sense...?
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Feb 5, 2014 18:29
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Slow Motion posted:No. Learn basic finance. Receiving money is not the same as earning it. I often receive much more or much less than I earn in a month. Two examples: BUDGET ACCORDING TO WHAT YOU RECEIVE, NOT WHAT YOU "EARN" A budget is "This many dollars were deposited into my personal accounts this month, and then this many dollars were spent." That's it. You make it so much more complicated. No one cares about the semantic nuances here, or how much you earn on paper (except when you earn a debt to your employer somehow). I'm still not clear on how much of your under salary spending went to paying down your debt if any, because you haven't included it as an expense on your reconciliation for January. Or did you really only pay the minimums? If so, what the hell are you doing with that extra $1,100? edit: seriously, just make a budget that has no mention of and does not take into account your "Bonus Accrual" and you'll mollify 90% of the critics here. If you actually receive that bonus, then by all means, include the specific dollar amount as part of your income for the month. This "post tax estimate" of potential bonus payouts has no place whatsoever in a serious budget. bam thwok fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 18:30
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Slow Motion posted:The minimum is the interest plus some amount of principal. So my $140 minimum last month was $71 in interest and $69 towards principal. For my financial planning I want to recognize the $71 interest as an expense and the $69 towards principal as debt reduction. Your monthly budget is what you plan to spend that month. If you plan to pay the minimums, then put that higher number in your budget. If you plan to just pay interest payment, put that. If you just put in the interest payments into your budget, you'll have an inflated idea of what your discretionary spending is bc you're still going to pay at least the minimums each month so you need to account for that. You can track interest vs principal separately but your budget should be the expenses you expect to pay that month. You don't just intend to pay the interest, you intend to pay the minimum (or you should be there are fees associated with not paying the minimum.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:35
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Slow Motion posted:No. Learn basic finance. Receiving money is not the same as earning it. I often receive much more or much less than I earn in a month. Two examples: No. Stop it. You need to stop counting money you don't even have yet as actual money you have. If you don't have access to that bonus money right now then you don't count it. Period. When you get it in July/December/whenever then you count it. Not before, not with some bizarre prorating schedule, and definitely not prorating it and then counting it again like you've already done. If you keep counting it all you're doing is lying to yourself about how much actual money you have on hand.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:47
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Main Paineframe posted:Some of the insults might be getting to be a bit much, but being nice to him is the wrong approach because it just encourages his lovely behavior. That's why I'm busting his chops so much - he feels that his debt problem is essentially solved now that he spent under his income once, and he's going to relax and stop bothering to accurately track and plan his debt (not that he's doing a stellar job of it right now!) if we let up the pressure. Yeah not talking about you. But some people go over the "constructive pressure" line by a lot.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:47
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Slow Motion posted:Spent: $3,750 (or slightly lower, as CC minimums include more than just interest) You're so god drat infuriating. If nothing else you've included the $1500 of your bonus that you're never going to see in your "earned" income. You don't see how stupid that is?
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Feb 5, 2014 18:50
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Slow Motion posted:No. Learn basic finance. Receiving money is not the same as earning it. I often receive much more or much less than I earn in a month. Two examples: Received money is the only bit that matters, though. If you can't go out and spend it right now without putting it on your credit card, you don't have it yet. For the purposes of this thread, you should assume that anyone asking how much you "earned" in a given period is actually asking how much you received. In the unlikely event that anyone wants to hear about your bonus accruals, they'll specifically ask for it, so stop counting bonus as income when it hasn't been paid out yet. Debt reduction is an expense, whether it's interest or principal; both should be accounted for in your figures and there's no real point to separating them.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:51
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Old Fart posted:You need to cut this poo poo out. Everybody is telling you to stop counting this chicken before it hatches, yet you keep getting caught up on nitpicking.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:53
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Little Johnny does chores on weekdays for his mom. In turn, he gets $10 a week. Johnny spent all of his money last week, and today is Wednesday. Johnny goes to the store and tries to buy a pack of gum for $1. But the shopkeeper won't accept that Johnny has already earned $4 this week and will be making $6 more if he does his chores, because Johnny is broke. Thankfully, Johnny can't get credit as he is a minor and still has time to learn about proper financial methods while he is young. SlowMo wishes he was Johnny, because Johnny actually has a higher net worth.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:53
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Rudager posted:If nothing else you've included the $1500 of your bonus that you're never going to see in your "earned" income. semicolonsrock posted:Yeah not talking about you. But some people go over the "constructive pressure" line by a lot.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:54
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HooKars posted:Your monthly budget is what you plan to spend that month. If you plan to pay the minimums, then put that higher number in your budget. If you plan to just pay interest payment, put that. I plan to pay the minimums first throughout the month and then the excess of income towards the principal at the end of the month. That income is going to include many sources which aren't salary each month (the car will be a big one). So maybe I'll budget the excess of salary over planned spending and then put the actual including all extra income? That's going to make the total reconciliation look weird.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:54
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Slow Motion posted:I plan to pay the minimums first throughout the month and then the excess of income towards the principal at the end of the month. That income is going to include many sources which aren't salary each month (the car will be a big one). It is not as complicated as you're making it. You'll add a line this month to income for however much you get for the car. On March 1st-ish, in your actual spending chart, you'll say how much total you put towards each card.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:00
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There's no reason to get so complicated with your expenses Slomo. You're neither a bank nor a huge baller. You have really basic income and expenses at the moment. Your income is yours when you actually have it in hand. So when you actually sell your car, put that in your income column. When you receive your bonus, put that in your income column. Don't anticipate income until you have it. For expenses, plan about how much you're going to use. If it needs to change, then take it out of another line-item and then put it in the line that needs more money for the month. Its basic and simple. You haven't done this in 6 months and I doubt you're going to do that in the next 6 months.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:00
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Slow Motion posted:I plan to pay the minimums first throughout the month and then the excess of income towards the principal at the end of the month. That income is going to include many sources which aren't salary each month (the car will be a big one). If you're just budgeting money you have then it's not weird at all, because you have the money you get from salary, the money you have from bonuses, and the money from other sources. You know, kind of like everyone in this thread has been telling you.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:00
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Slow Motion posted:I plan to pay the minimums first throughout the month and then the excess of income towards the principal at the end of the month. Slow Motion posted:So maybe I'll budget the excess of salary over planned spending and then put the actual including all extra income? That's going to make the total reconciliation look weird.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:01
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Rudager posted:You're so god drat infuriating. It was earned, and then was paid directly toward a debt I had incurred in December. When asking the question 'what happened in January?" do you see how important that is? I should have been doing it all along, especially when my accruals were negative (as Fiedler pointed out). I understand that my reconciliation is a little bit of a hybrid of a cash flow statement and an income accrual statement. But it's really not that hard to grasp. Old Fart posted:That's awesome. So which credit card got the $1100 from January? It went to the Chase Freedom card after the 401k loan nipped the Amex and a chunk of the Freedom. Slow Motion fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 19:02
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Slow Motion posted:But it's really not that hard to grasp. How's the view up there from Pedestal SloMo? Slow Motion posted:It went to the Chase Freedom card after the 401k loan nipped the Amex and a chunk of the Freedom. So have you had time to think about my wacky budgeting idea? Old Fart fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 19:05
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Old Fart posted:It is hilarious that you're talking down to people. It's not hilarious that people can't understand the difference between cash flows and accruals. If I'm talking down it's because people are failing to understand the basics of income and demanding that I come down to their level.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:08
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I think a lot of the people offering the advice you're dismissing have 0 debt so they're actually trying to bring you UP to their level  It's hilarious that you think accruals should count as a net profit just a month after you had to pay $1500 back to your employer for being a slacker.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:10
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Slow Motion posted:It's not hilarious that people can't understand the difference between cash flows and accruals.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:11
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Slow Motion posted:It's not hilarious that people can't understand the difference between cash flows and accruals. We understand the difference. But since it has nothing to do with budgeting, we don't understand why you're including accruals at all.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:12
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Slow Motion posted:It's not hilarious that people can't understand the difference between cash flows and accruals. It's clear that you should be tracking accruals. But it doesn't make any sense as part of your budget. The accruals can't be applied to expenses. Negative accruals will not be immediately deducted from your income. It's an entirely separate asset/liability unconnected to month-to-month cash flow, so it makes no sense to track it on the same sheet. You don't track your car's depreciation on your monthly budget, either.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:13
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Slow Motion posted:It's not hilarious that people can't understand the difference between cash flows and accruals. Hahaha, you think you're above the people that are helping you because you think you make more money than them. Get hosed, SloMo.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:15
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bam thwok posted:We understand the difference. But since it has nothing to do with budgeting, we don't understand why you're including accruals at all. I'm budgeting my salary while also paying attention to the accruals because they are important to my get-out-of-debt plan. Last year those accruals were eventually realized as nearly a quarter of my income. The year before that it was more like 40% of my income because I didn't have a huge slump in hours. Ignoring 40% of income while planning to get out of debt would be stupid. Ignoring those accruals seems like a good way for me to bill low hours and sink the eventual bonus. I don't get the hoopla. I'm budgeting cash income from my salary, which is exactly what people advise (and A Good Idea). Notorious b.s.d. posted:It's clear that you should be tracking accruals. But it doesn't make any sense as part of your budget. The accruals can't be applied to expenses. Negative accruals will not be immediately deducted from your income. They are directly connected to cash flows. They just aren't realized immediately.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:19
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Slow Motion posted:They are directly connected to cash flows. They just aren't realized immediately. Nope. Your accrual is non-liquid. It's an asset (or liability) that you can't realize (or satisfy) on demand. It's not part of your cash flow, period. It's important to track it, just as it's important to track depreciation on vehicles, value of your certificates of deposit, etc. But, like an automobile or a CD, it's a non-liquid asset. It isn't part of your monthly budget until the month that it is realized (or satisfied).
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Feb 5, 2014 19:22
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Nocheez posted:Hahaha, you think you're above the people that are helping you because you think you make more money than them. Notorious b.s.d. posted:Nope. The spreadsheet I've been working on and posting here has evolved to fill both rolls: the top is a budget for the salary income and the bottom is for planning to get out of debt. Slow Motion fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 19:28
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Slow Motion posted:I don't get the hoopla.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:30
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Slow Motion posted:Ok. I agree with this. But only in as much as you are directing it at 'monthly budget'. For getting out of debt the accruals are extremely important to maximize through working more hours. Tracking them helps with that, so I track them daily. Track them in a separate sheet, along with your car and other non-liquid assets. It is extremely unhelpful to have them in front of your face while you're trying to manage your income and expenses. First, it puts you in the wrong frame of mind to be thinking about all that money just around the bend. Second, it hurts your budgeting process to be deliberately unclear about cash-equivalents vs. non-liquid assets/liabilities. It's certainly confused and irritated everyone in this thread. (Including you, Slow Motion.)
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Feb 5, 2014 19:30
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Slow Motion posted:I not above or below anyone. A coherent argument about financial planning is not an assault on your ego. Stop getting worked up and throwing insults around. You're the one that loving started it. It should be easy, money in - money out, instead you complicate it because it makes your position look better, even if it doesn't match reality.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:37
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:Track them in a separate sheet, along with your car and other non-liquid assets. I'll split them off. I just don't want to see 20 pages of people saying "at $400 a month towards principal it'll be 20 years before you're out of debt!" when I'm increasing my accruals by several thousand a month earmarked for debt repayment.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:39
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And when you use those accruals to pay debt, you show those payments on the spreadsheet. Simple.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:47
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Slow Motion posted:I'll split them off. I just don't want to see 20 pages of people saying "at $400 a month towards principal it'll be 20 years before you're out of debt!" when I'm increasing my accruals by several thousand a month earmarked for debt repayment. Slow Motion, you have yet to own your failures. That's all this really is. You've given it lip service from time to time, but you have plenty of reasons why it's not your fault. You have yet to really say, "Yes, I hosed up. Yes, I own it. Yes, I accept that my history gives you zero reason to trust anything I say about the future." Own your failures. Break through that wall.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:47
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Slow Motion posted:It's not hilarious that people can't understand the difference between cash flows and accruals. Realize this, you're spending 350$ a month on the debt interest alone. As far as anyone can tell, you have just shifted debt around for the last 6 months. You ask for help but are regularly opaque and omit critical things that have occurred. Personal finance is not difficult, you aren't on some other level. There are people who work at McDonalds worth many times what you are worth, and who have a better grasp of their finances than you do. My advice as an actual debt free baller is to not spend your accrual on anything but debt reduction. If you budget as though it doesn't exist, and then live within those means, you can pay off your debts, and then truly live like a baller with all that accrual eventually being cash flow that you can do whatever with (baller suggestion: save or invest it). Your apartment is bad for 2k a month, 300+ dollars on alcohol is absurd, but honestly that doesn't matter so much as how you are mentally approaching things.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:50
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Old Fart posted:You are severely divorced from reality if you think this would be the result of you setting an honest budget and having forthright conversations. But more likely this newfound fear is just part of the never-ending deflection train. Besides working too few hours in the second half of last year and sinking my year end bonus payout what failures are you talking about?
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Feb 5, 2014 19:52
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Slow Motion posted:Besides working too few hours in the second half of last year and sinking my year end bonus payout what failures are you talking about? - Getting $35k in debt. - Not selling your car. - Not consistently accounting for your $1500 bonus debit. - Contemplating flying to Dubai/China/Hawaii instead of paying down your bonus debt. - Not understanding how interest is applied to credit card balances.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:57
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Slow Motion posted:Besides working too few hours in the second half of last year and sinking my year end bonus payout what failures are you talking about? So let's see, what else is there that could possibly require you to accept as a gently caress-up that requires tending... I know it's around here somewhere... where did I last see it... Oh yes, it's your THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS OF DEBT. This right here, this is why people are mad at you.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:57
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Oh I see. You guys are some sort of financial moralists. Well gently caress you.
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Feb 5, 2014 20:01
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