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Feb 4, 2014 06:07
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So in the end after reading all of this, I'm stuck with the "live in the same house for 15+ years or you are wasting money" point and wonderign if I should just abandon the "getting a house" ship and just rent elsewhere if I'm no longer happy in my grand-parents basement. Am I reading this stuff wrong?
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Feb 4, 2014 07:26
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supersnowman posted:So in the end after reading all of this, I'm stuck with the "live in the same house for 15+ years or you are wasting money" point and wonderign if I should just abandon the "getting a house" ship and just rent elsewhere if I'm no longer happy in my grand-parents basement. Am I reading this stuff wrong?
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Feb 4, 2014 08:48
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They didn't photoshop this Roncey dump that just sold for 150k over asking. What a joke. 20 foot lot to boot. http://themashcanada.blogspot.ca/2014/01/sold-145-galley-avenue-roncensvalles.html
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Feb 4, 2014 13:36
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If living in one house for 15+ years is wasting money than how come the most expensive real estate here is in the Old Town, where some buildings are 500+ years old?
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Feb 4, 2014 16:38
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OhYeah posted:If living in one house for 15+ years is wasting money than how come the most expensive real estate here is in the Old Town, where some buildings are 500+ years old? They're so expensive the owners are ghosts and they can't go to the afterlife until they've broken even on rent vs buy and it's been 500 years. Also I'm not sure you've read anything here.
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Feb 4, 2014 16:42
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OhYeah posted:If living in one house for 15+ years is wasting money than how come the most expensive real estate here is in the Old Town, where some buildings are 500+ years old? I'm pretty sure you have that the wrong way around. They're saying at least 15 years to break even on mortgage and transaction costs. Of course, that's making some kind of assumption about the growth in value.
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Feb 4, 2014 17:51
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supersnowman posted:So in the end after reading all of this, I'm stuck with the "live in the same house for 15+ years or you are wasting money" point and wonderign if I should just abandon the "getting a house" ship and just rent elsewhere if I'm no longer happy in my grand-parents basement. Am I reading this stuff wrong? Also helps to run a rent vs buy calculator to see the math. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/business/buy-rent-calculator.html Probably the only times I would justify home debtorship -You plan to stay in a certain spot for a longer term residence -Area favors buying over renting in overall monthly cost -Stable personal, financial and also job -You are able to find a attractive neighborhood at reasonable pricepoint before it becomes a overpriced hotspot. -Piles of kids running around, apartment dwelling scales up ok for couple but bigger apartments are harder to find/tend to command a big price premium
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Feb 5, 2014 02:19
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The only problem with that calculator is the % value increase slider, if anyone could reasonably predict that in the short-medium term they'd be wearing solid gold diapers. But even if we generously say in Victoria this is the new norm and housing prices will simply go up with inflation the calculator gives me 21 loving years for buying to make sense. If I'm a bit more generous and say things keep going up a bit more than inflation it's 15 years. I'd love to live here all my life but those are both reaaaaly long times. If we say house prices may very well go down in the next decade then the calculator tells me never, it will never be better to buy. Now if prices DO go down and I can suddenly afford an actual house (not doing a condo ever, worst of both worlds) I will absolutely consider it since it's a luxury I'd love to have even if it's not a good investment, but there's only so much I'm willing to throw away in the name of :prideofownership: Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 02:51
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I found this linked on a housing blog. http://healthycitymaps.blogspot.ca/2014/01/VancouverPropertyValueChange.html The really surprising bits to me are the changes in assessment in Mount Pleasant, a bit of a poorer neighborhood and Shaughnessy which is one of the richer. 
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Feb 5, 2014 02:58
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Okay folks, I am tempted by a property and need to be talked out of it. Salary: 75k/yr Market: St. John's NL House listing price: $260k Savings: $120k The house is close to downtown, the university, a bus stop, and an elementary and high school. It's a 130 year old character home with a serviced back alley and a nice big log (for a downtown St. John's home anyway). Assessed value is $220k, giving taxes of ~$200/mo Wife looking for work, likely income will be $50k /yr. No kids. The way I see it, we could do a 100k down payment. TD's standard 3 year rate now is 3.75%. So we lock in for 3 years at that price for a base mortage of $820/mo. We will do additional payments of $12k per year to speed things along. In this model, the mortage is paid off in about 9 years. It will likely be faster than that, because once the wife gets a job we'll have more cash and will be able to shovel more money into the mortgage. We've run the numbers and this can all work comfortably. The problem with this city is rent is quite expensive for what it is... we'll probably be paying $1250-$1500/mo for a decent large apartment or small house. So on a monthly basis we'll be putting more into rent than the mortgage. Of course, that means pulling $100k out of ETF's and mutual funds that are earning us 7% on aggregate. I used to live in Van where property was phenomenally stupid to buy. Doesn't look so bad here. Thoughts?
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Feb 5, 2014 04:33
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^ Parameter-wise, it doesn't seem so bad. Why the big delta between the listing price and assessed value though? Otherwise, assuming it checks all the due diligence boxes around inspections and so forth - I reckon you could do a lot worse.
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Feb 5, 2014 05:04
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Lexicon posted:^ Parameter-wise, it doesn't seem so bad. Why the big delta between the listing price and assessed value though? Most St Johns properties are listed for quite a bit higher than their assessed value. This is actually one of the closer ones. I was always under the impression that listing price was always way higher than assessed value? All my info on RE comes from this thread though...
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Feb 5, 2014 06:00
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Arabidopsis posted:Most St Johns properties are listed for quite a bit higher than their assessed value. This is actually one of the closer ones. I was always under the impression that listing price was always way higher than assessed value? There's no point in making such a big downpayment since it involves selling off good fixed income investments. At least put 10%-20% but it's somewhat dumb to put all the eggs in one basket since remember how housing is a illiquid asset. This is a somewhat handy tool even though it's a bit conservative for things such as maintenance cost: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/business/buy-rent-calculator.html
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Feb 5, 2014 06:12
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supersnowman posted:So in the end after reading all of this, I'm stuck with the "live in the same house for 15+ years or you are wasting money" point and wonderign if I should just abandon the "getting a house" ship and just rent elsewhere if I'm no longer happy in my grand-parents basement. Am I reading this stuff wrong? Yes, the need for mobility in the new economy is a huge part of why home ownership's value has significantly declined. That's a huge loving thing the "you're throwing away your money" people haven't priced in. And it's hardly the only thing, the RENT VS OWN calculators you see are often missing a lot of the hidden benefits of renting and ignore a lot of the hidden costs of home ownership. In general, people are awful at pricing in risk and opportunity costs. etalian posted:There's no point in making such a big downpayment since it involves selling off good fixed income investments. poo poo, what actually saved a lot of people in the states is that they had 0% down- they could ride out 6mo-2 years of free rent because foreclosure were completely backed up and then just walk.
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Feb 5, 2014 07:32
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enbot posted:poo poo, what actually saved a lot of people in the states is that they had 0% down- they could ride out 6mo-2 years of free rent because foreclosure were completely backed up and then just walk. Yeah, you can't just walk away from a mortgage like that in canada, right? Like if you put less than 20% down then your mortgage has to be insured and if you default then the bank gets their money but the insurance company will come after you for the difference if they lose money on the sale of the house I think? I'm not sure on the 20% number but if it is bellow a certain point it has to be insured, right?
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Feb 5, 2014 07:50
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Squibbles posted:Yeah, you can't just walk away from a mortgage like that in canada, right? Not sure about Canada but it's at least 20% in the USA depending on the lender to avoid the extra PMI payments.
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Feb 5, 2014 08:01
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Non traditional mortgages (i.e less than 20% down) require CMHC insurance.
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Feb 5, 2014 13:22
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If you're buying it to live in, not looking at it as just an investment and it's affordable and does not have hidden caveats then it's probably fine. I would recommend going for a smaller down payment and keeping the extra savings in a diversified portfolio, you'll have the extra money around in case you need it and will probably see a better return that way when prices readjust after the bubble bursts. I'm no professional though so take this all with a healthy grain of salt. 
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Feb 5, 2014 13:58
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Maybe you guys can give me some advice. I own a 3 bedroom semi-detached in the Ottawa South Neighborhood. We bought at $212k and could probably get around $270k right now. We owe $155k on the mortgage and that's the only debt we have. We love the area, my wife has a 5 minute walk to work, and I have a 15 minute bike ride in the summer. Problem is we have a third child on the way, and he's going to want his own bedroom sometime in the next few years. How should a popping bubble change our timing on buying a new house? We aren't interested in moving too far from where we are now so I expect any price changes in either direction will hit both our house and the house we wish to be. Any sage advice?
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Feb 5, 2014 15:42
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FoE posted:Maybe you guys can give me some advice. I own a 3 bedroom semi-detached in the Ottawa South Neighborhood. We bought at $212k and could probably get around $270k right now. We owe $155k on the mortgage and that's the only debt we have. We love the area, my wife has a 5 minute walk to work, and I have a 15 minute bike ride in the summer. Problem is we have a third child on the way, and he's going to want his own bedroom sometime in the next few years. How should a popping bubble change our timing on buying a new house? We aren't interested in moving too far from where we are now so I expect any price changes in either direction will hit both our house and the house we wish to be. Any sage advice? But if you are happy where you are why not just get bunk beds and stick there for a few more years?
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Feb 5, 2014 15:58
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FoE posted:Maybe you guys can give me some advice. I own a 3 bedroom semi-detached in the Ottawa South Neighborhood. We bought at $212k and could probably get around $270k right now. We owe $155k on the mortgage and that's the only debt we have. We love the area, my wife has a 5 minute walk to work, and I have a 15 minute bike ride in the summer. Problem is we have a third child on the way, and he's going to want his own bedroom sometime in the next few years. How should a popping bubble change our timing on buying a new house? We aren't interested in moving too far from where we are now so I expect any price changes in either direction will hit both our house and the house we wish to be. Any sage advice? Sounds like you got a good thing going. I wouldn't worry about the kid, just pack him in with one of his siblings. I shared a room with my brother, it's no big deal. Or at least it's not a big enough deal to affect a major financial decision.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:02
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FoE posted:Maybe you guys can give me some advice. I own a 3 bedroom semi-detached in the Ottawa South Neighborhood. We bought at $212k and could probably get around $270k right now. We owe $155k on the mortgage and that's the only debt we have. We love the area, my wife has a 5 minute walk to work, and I have a 15 minute bike ride in the summer. Problem is we have a third child on the way, and he's going to want his own bedroom sometime in the next few years. How should a popping bubble change our timing on buying a new house? We aren't interested in moving too far from where we are now so I expect any price changes in either direction will hit both our house and the house we wish to be. Any sage advice?
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Feb 5, 2014 16:05
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FoE posted:Maybe you guys can give me some advice. I own a 3 bedroom semi-detached in the Ottawa South Neighborhood. We bought at $212k and could probably get around $270k right now. We owe $155k on the mortgage and that's the only debt we have. We love the area, my wife has a 5 minute walk to work, and I have a 15 minute bike ride in the summer. Problem is we have a third child on the way, and he's going to want his own bedroom sometime in the next few years. How should a popping bubble change our timing on buying a new house? We aren't interested in moving too far from where we are now so I expect any price changes in either direction will hit both our house and the house we wish to be. Any sage advice? The kid's not going to remotely care about the opportunity for solitude for at least 7 years, maybe more. If you're happy where you are, it seems a bit silly honestly, to move for this reason - especially so long in advance.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:22
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Sounds like a bunch of votes for stay put and buy bunk beds. I lean that way too, now I just have to convince my wife. She's eyeing $350 - $400k single family homes in the area. Thanks for the help.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:30
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FoE posted:Sounds like a bunch of votes for stay put and buy bunk beds. I lean that way too, now I just have to convince my wife. She's eyeing $350 - $400k single family homes in the area. Thanks for the help. My boss was recently in a similar situation as you. He wanted to upgrade to a bigger house / one that was closer to his son's school, but was worried about a potential 20% market correction in the area. He sold his $300k house and is now renting a $500k house for the next five years.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:01
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Rick Rickshaw posted:My boss was recently in a similar situation as you. He wanted to upgrade to a bigger house / one that was closer to his son's school, but was worried about a potential 20% market correction in the area. He sold his $300k house and is now renting a $500k house for the next five years. That thought had crossed my mind, but it's a lot of disruption to put little kids through. Plus all the house rentals in the area are aimed at Carleton U students
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Feb 5, 2014 18:19
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FoE posted:That thought had crossed my mind, but it's a lot of disruption to put little kids through. Plus all the house rentals in the area are aimed at Carleton U students Not to be a broken record here, but if your lot's big enough why not expand your existing house?
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Feb 5, 2014 18:22
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FoE posted:Maybe you guys can give me some advice. I own a 3 bedroom semi-detached in the Ottawa South Neighborhood. We bought at $212k and could probably get around $270k right now. We owe $155k on the mortgage and that's the only debt we have. We love the area, my wife has a 5 minute walk to work, and I have a 15 minute bike ride in the summer. Problem is we have a third child on the way, and he's going to want his own bedroom sometime in the next few years. How should a popping bubble change our timing on buying a new house? We aren't interested in moving too far from where we are now so I expect any price changes in either direction will hit both our house and the house we wish to be. Any sage advice? I was 13 before I ever got a room to myself, and before then I shared a room with my brother. I turned out just fine. Don't worry about having two kids in the same room.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:40
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Every kid having their own bedroom seems like a pretty new, upper/middle class and extremely north-american idea. Growing up unless you were an only child it was pretty rare to know any friends who didn't have to share a room. Generally the oldest kid had their own room and the younger ones shared. I mean even on the Cosby Show, a family of two extremely well-off people, all those kids shared rooms until the older ones moved out. If it's good enough for the Huxtables it's good enough for you. Do you have an attic? I had a friend who in their early teens basically just colonized the attic with the help of her dad in order to get her own space. Same could work with a basement, but it may result in a goonchild. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 18:53
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The attic might be the best bet, assuming it's possible. It's not a huge house and the lot is pretty small. The other option is to close off the garage and make a room in there.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:13
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Check your zoning bylaws though, some regressive places demand a minimum of off-street ENCLOSED parking. There was a lady in a snooty suburb of Victoria that made a bedroom for her disabled child in the garage (level entry) and the city flipped out and demanded she return it to a garage. Then again with things like minor internal reno's it's often way easier than do first and ask forgiveness later. You try to do things the "right" way and suddenly your little 5,000 attic reno is a 100,000 code-compliance gutting of the house. Some cities are super fussy about attic and garage conversions. The city wouldn't for a second allow a bedroom to be accessed only via a ladder and a small tunnel you have to crawl through like my friend's. But hey just say it's for storage, oops I'm storing a kid up there.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:26
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Maybe you guys can help me. Im in my mid 20s and I commute into Toronto every day via the 401. I want to shorten my commute or decrease the hassle. How much should I be paying in rent for Toronto at 45k per year? What area should I be living in? Im seeing all these really old rickety apartments going for 1300+. Its ridiculous.
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Feb 5, 2014 21:02
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Kraftwerk posted:Maybe you guys can help me. Im in my mid 20s and I commute into Toronto every day via the 401. I want to shorten my commute or decrease the hassle. How much should I be paying in rent for Toronto at 45k per year? What area should I be living in? Im seeing all these really old rickety apartments going for 1300+. Its ridiculous. Depends where you work, how long your commute is. If your commute is already an hour there are plenty of places to live within the city that won't shorten that commute time.
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Feb 5, 2014 21:06
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Baronjutter posted:Check your zoning bylaws though, some regressive places demand a minimum of off-street ENCLOSED parking. There was a lady in a snooty suburb of Victoria that made a bedroom for her disabled child in the garage (level entry) and the city flipped out and demanded she return it to a garage. And then kill yourself when your kid gets stuck up there during an actual fire and burns to death. The garage thing is dumb, but I would generally draw the line at ignoring any safety regulations. Among other things it could potentially make you liable should some LATER owner of the house have something go wrong in the space you illegally modified. Kraftwerk posted:Maybe you guys can help me. Im in my mid 20s and I commute into Toronto every day via the 401. I want to shorten my commute or decrease the hassle. How much should I be paying in rent for Toronto at 45k per year? What area should I be living in? Im seeing all these really old rickety apartments going for 1300+. Its ridiculous. Where in Toronto do you commute to? That could make a difference on what areas make sense. If it's downtown, you're probably SOL. Anything that's got sufficient infrastructure access (read subway or streetcar) is going to really strain that salary level. You can probably afford something off a subway line but then you're not really saving time, just the headache of driving yourself.
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Feb 5, 2014 21:15
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Kalenn Istarion posted:You can probably afford something off a subway line but then you're not really saving time, just the headache of driving yourself. This is not to be underestimated, either in savings of time, cost or sanity.
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Feb 5, 2014 21:18
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I work very close to Fairview mall and commute in from Milton.
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Feb 5, 2014 21:20
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Kraftwerk posted:I work very close to Fairview mall and commute in from Milton. Well, that's not so bad as trying to get to downtown. Here's what I would do: - figure out what you pay each month in gas - decide whether you can ditch your car entirely based on living on a subway line or sufficiently dense neighborhood, if yes, add monthly car payments to gas estimate - subtract cost of monthly subway pass - add this to what you currently pay in rent (e: or would pay to rent a similar unit in Milton) This gives you your basic rent-equivalent. It might seem quite a bit higher than what you're paying but carries soft trade-offs that you need to decide whether you're comfortable with. The biggest one is that even if you end up with a similar commute time, you're spending your time reading on the subway or bus or whatever rather than trying not to fall asleep and/or kill yourself on the 401. As Lexicon noted, this has an immense amount of value. You'd be surprised how much reading etc you can get done on the subway or streetcar. Assuming you sell your car, the biggest loss is the utility of having a car on the weekend, but you can address this by using one of the car-sharing services or car rentals. If you think this will be a regular thing then you can subtract the cost of a car share service from the amount above to account for it.
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Feb 5, 2014 21:49
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Kraftwerk posted:Maybe you guys can help me. Im in my mid 20s and I commute into Toronto every day via the 401. I want to shorten my commute or decrease the hassle. How much should I be paying in rent for Toronto at 45k per year? What area should I be living in? Im seeing all these really old rickety apartments going for 1300+. Its ridiculous. No more than $1,100 a month, unless you can also create some savings (i.e. get rid of your car because you're paying $1,300 to be walking distance from work). General formula for housing costs is no more than 30% your gross (pre-tax) salary. That tends to change as your income goes up, of course, but it's a good rule to keep you from getting into trouble.
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Feb 5, 2014 21:55
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It's a good rule but christ didn't we have some stats posted in here a while ago that the % of people paying 50% or more of their income keeps growing every year? But yeah, 1/3 is a good rule. Really really try to stay within that or you'll get stuck never having any savings. I seriously doubt any of us will see pensions when we retire so you really have to save and plan for your own poo poo, and "my house" is a poo poo investment.
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Feb 5, 2014 22:41
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