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Noctis Horrendae posted:That's also a good point, but I can't really push myself to relate to an overly zealous and fascistic galaxy-spanning empire. It's like making the Empire from Star Wars the main characters - it just feels sort of off. You don't relate to the Imperium, you relate to the little guys who serve as protagonists (little being relative here). You'll find that the vast majority of books revolve around the people doing the legwork, and the antagonists are a greater and insidious force (be it from within or without) that will bring forth a great calamity - a dramatic worsening of the status quo - if not stopped. That the protagonists represent a vast and oppressive is usually of little relevance in the moral framework of their tale, because what they fight is locally the greater evil, which matches or outstrips them in power within the scope of that they can muster. The Imperium is meant to be an analogy to the crumbling roman empire, a certainly powerful but decaying edifice assailed from all sides by smaller forces, with its representatives struggling to keep it together if not for true belief in its policies, then because it represents a bulwark of order against a chaotic, barbaric world. Nephilm fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 01:24
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Noctis Horrendae posted:We need more Tau and Necron based stories.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:31
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Arquinsiel posted:There's only so many stories you can get out of mind-controlled slaves and their puppetmasters. A novel set from the point of view of a Pariah would be interesting.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:33
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Noctis Horrendae posted:We need more Tau and Necron based stories. How would a Necron story even go? I don't think I've ever read a science fiction story with a non human robot as the main protagonist.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:34
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Kegslayer posted:How would a Necron story even go? I don't think I've ever read a science fiction story with a non human robot as the main protagonist. I'm no writer, but I'd imagine it'd be warporn-esque. If you set it from the point of view of a Pariah, you get a few more options.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:39
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Noctis Horrendae posted:A novel set from the point of view of a Pariah would be interesting. Try Pariah.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:52
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Nephilm posted:Try Pariah. ..That's an actual thing? Interesting, I'll go check it out.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:55
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Don't read Pariah if you haven't already read both the Eisenhorn books and the Ravenor books. Since it's the first Eisenhorn v Ravenor book, you'll spoil both of those series while also missing a lot of the background information for the book.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:59
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Khizan posted:Don't read Pariah if you haven't already read both the Eisenhorn books and the Ravenor books. Since it's the first Eisenhorn v Ravenor book, you'll spoil both of those series while also missing a lot of the background information for the book. Gotcha. I really ought to pick up all these novels so I know what the big deal about them is. Everyone talks about Eisenhorn and Ravenor.
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Feb 6, 2014 02:00
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Gotcha. I really ought to pick up all these novels so I know what the big deal about them is. Everyone talks about Eisenhorn and Ravenor. Question: what have you read?
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Feb 6, 2014 02:09
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Kegslayer posted:How would a Necron story even go? I don't think I've ever read a science fiction story with a non human robot as the main protagonist. I am sure it would be a Necron Lord lamenting over 500 pages how he turned his people into soulless automatons... The same way a book about Eldar would be 500 pages of "Boo hoo our people are dying...there is nothing we can do about it" along with each page having the word Mon-Keigh something like ten times... Nephilm posted:Question: what have you read? No kidding...evidence of Noctis' heresy grows with every post.
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Feb 6, 2014 02:36
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Nephilm posted:Question: what have you read? Literally almost every warporn novel GW has ever released. Half of the Horus Heresy books, the Blood Angels Omnibus, all the Ciaphas Cain stuff, etc.. e: Uroboros posted:I am sure it would be a Necron Lord lamenting over 500 pages how he turned his people into soulless automatons... This is already a thing, actually. Go read the second book in the Angel of Fire series - there's at least one "mon-keigh" every time the POV switches from guardsman to Dark Eldar overlord.
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Feb 6, 2014 02:44
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Noctis Horrendae posted:This is already a thing, actually. Go read the second book in the Angel of Fire series - there's at least one "mon-keigh" every time the POV switches from guardsman to Dark Eldar overlord. Honestly, I couldn't stomach Angel of Fire. I think I got to the part where they rescue the Lord Solar from the hospital, and it just seemed idiotic. So these tank drivers are going to be honor guard for the Lord Solar as a reward? Ok sounds plausible, but the leader of a crusade would likely have some of the deadliest agents of the Imperium as his personal bodyguard. Where are these mother fuckers at when he needs them?
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Feb 6, 2014 02:54
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Uroboros posted:Honestly, I couldn't stomach Angel of Fire. I think I got to the part where they rescue the Lord Solar from the hospital, and it just seemed idiotic. So these tank drivers are going to be honor guard for the Lord Solar as a reward? Ok sounds plausible, but the leader of a crusade would likely have some of the deadliest agents of the Imperium as his personal bodyguard. Where are these mother fuckers at when he needs them? I'll give you that some parts didn't make too much sense, but it was one of my favourite novels as far as warporn goes. I liked the overall story arc in the first one, but the second one was rather forgettable. I also find the idea of a statue/prominent local figure being the embodiment of Chaos Undivided and a corruption of the God-Emperor very fitting canonically.
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Feb 6, 2014 02:59
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Literally almost every warporn novel GW has ever released. Half of the Horus Heresy books, the Blood Angels Omnibus, all the Ciaphas Cain stuff, etc.. Which of the following have you read? Eisenhorn trilogy Ravenor trilogy Night Lords trilogy Helsreach Legion of the Damned The Emperor's Gift
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Feb 6, 2014 03:01
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Uroboros posted:I am sure it would be a Necron Lord lamenting over 500 pages how he turned his people into soulless automatons... I think it's hard to translate that mindset into a good book though. The first Eldar book was about an artist who was so upset he got spurned that he lost control his emotions and set down the path of a warrior. It was an interesting concept and the Eldar slice of life stuff was something new but ultimately the book wasn't very good simply because the main character was so unlikable. I think Thorpe tried really hard to write about the Eldar's emotional spectrum but it read like the live journal of a hormone fueled teenager. To top it off, towards the middle of the book the protagonist gets consumed by the spirit of the exarch effectively killing the protagonist and any character growth or attachment you may have had. Unless you have ADB or Abnett or someone of a similar caliber giving it a go, writing a Xenos story seems like a terrible idea.
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Feb 6, 2014 03:16
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Nephilm posted:Which of the following have you read? Err..does part of Helsreach count? The Night Lords have never interested me. Legion of the Damned I have no excuse for, same thing with Eisenhorn and Ravenor. I'm rather picky with my warporn.
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Feb 6, 2014 03:27
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Err..does part of Helsreach count? The Night Lords have never interested me. Legion of the Damned I have no excuse for, same thing with Eisenhorn and Ravenor. I'm rather picky with my warporn. Noctis Horrendae posted:Literally almost every warporn novel GW has ever released. Half of the Horus Heresy books, the Blood Angels Omnibus, all the Ciaphas Cain stuff, etc.. You are so far away from "literally almost every warporn novel", it's almost funny. Trust us, read ADB's Night Lords series and at least Eisenhorn. Edit: Read the thread title
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Feb 6, 2014 03:33
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Shroud posted:You are so far away from "literally almost every warporn novel", it's almost funny. Trust us, read ADB's Night Lords series and at least Eisenhorn.  On it.
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Feb 6, 2014 03:49
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You really shouldn't judge when you haven't even read any wh40k books. Heresy books don't count, since they're a completely different animal (ironically, your criticism of wh40k doesn't even apply to them due to the plots and themes involved).
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Feb 6, 2014 04:34
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Noctis Horrendae posted:The Night Lords have never interested me. They will. Read those books.
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Feb 6, 2014 04:35
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Khizan posted:They will. Read those books. They're space batmen, so I'll give them a chance. Nephilm posted:You really shouldn't judge when you haven't even read any wh40k books. Heresy books don't count, since they're a completely different animal (ironically, your criticism of wh40k doesn't even apply to them due to the plots and themes involved). I've read several 40k books as I stated in the original post. There's more I didn't list - would you like me to literally pick out every 40k book on my shelf currently?
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Feb 6, 2014 04:41
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Err..does part of Helsreach count? The Night Lords have never interested me. Legion of the Damned I have no excuse for, same thing with Eisenhorn and Ravenor. I'm rather picky with my warporn. Before i read the Night Lords series i honestly felt they were one of the dumbest legions. With their silly paint scheme, and the night haunter seemed basically batman in space. ADB completely changed that with the Night Lord Trilogy and made them into one of the most compelling and tragic legions. In my opinion ADB's Night Lords series is the best 40k series written. So at least give it a shot.
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Feb 6, 2014 04:48
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UberJumper posted:Before i read the Night Lords series i honestly felt they were one of the dumbest legions. With their silly paint scheme, and the night haunter seemed basically batman in space. I'll try it out if I can find some cheap paperbacks. Thanks for the recommendations, fellas.
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Feb 6, 2014 04:56
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UberJumper posted:Before i read the Night Lords series i honestly felt they were one of the dumbest legions. With their silly paint scheme, and the night haunter seemed basically batman in space. He did the same thing with Betrayer. Angron was just angry man, primarch of the angry marines, whose big thing was they were so angry they mindlessly killed everything. One book and they get completely upended. I can't wait for Talon of Horus. The advent calendar teaser about Abaddon hinted how he was going, and it looks good already
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Feb 6, 2014 05:19
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When's the new release date for Talon of Horus? It was the one that got bumped back, wasn't it?
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Feb 6, 2014 05:38
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UberJumper posted:In my opinion ADB's Night Lords series is the best 40k series written. So at least give it a shot. Word. Night Lords is better than Eisenhorn, even.
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Feb 6, 2014 06:25
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UncleSmoothie posted:Word. Night Lords is better than Eisenhorn, even. ADB is good, but I don't know if I would go that far. That being said I tend to think Ravenor is a superior series to Eisenhorn. On the plus side ADB wrote The Emperor's Gift, which made me pretty gay for Hyperion. Hell, the part where they defeat Angron alone is arguably the best 40K chapter ever, poo poo be epic son.
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Feb 6, 2014 06:44
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Noctis Horrendae posted:
Word of warning about the Night Lords though: The books are well written but the characters themselves might not be all that much fun to read about, depending on your tolerance for self-delusion(which I know was sort of the point). Eisenhorn is pretty loving awesome though, despite being more adventury with far less bolter-porn.
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Feb 6, 2014 07:14
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Uroboros posted:ADB is good, but I don't know if I would go that far. That being said I tend to think Ravenor is a superior series to Eisenhorn. I rate Night Lords higher than Eisenhorn, which I rate higher than Ravenor. The three of them are series that live by their characters, and ADB is just plain superior at characterization than Abnett, who further suffers in that regard in Ravenor due to the change of focus to multiple characters and some bad decisions made for the last book.
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Feb 6, 2014 07:40
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JerryLee posted:When's the new release date for Talon of Horus? It was the one that got bumped back, wasn't it? I posted a while back about how it got bumped to a mid-October date from an April date. Then I got a email from Amazon a day or two ago that it got bumped to mid-November 
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Feb 6, 2014 14:36
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Pyrolocutus posted:I posted a while back about how it got bumped to a mid-October date from an April date. Yeah but Amazon gets their stuff long after it has gone up on the Black Library site. They prefer to keep initial sales in house to keep the greater profit margins. For example, Amazon says Unremembered Empire will be released February 18th, but it was on the Black Library site last October.
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Feb 6, 2014 14:42
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Fried Chicken posted:Yeah but Amazon gets their stuff long after it has gone up on the Black Library site. They prefer to keep initial sales in house to keep the greater profit margins. For example, Amazon says Unremembered Empire will be released February 18th, but it was on the Black Library site last October. Really? gently caress! I need to cancel a pre-order then.
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Feb 6, 2014 15:24
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Why wouldn't a Necron book work? I thought their latest Codex said they were all starting to develop their old personalities.
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Feb 6, 2014 16:58
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From the viewpoint of a Lord, it might work as a short story. The problem is that all of the Necrons are soulless robots who exist only to kill all living things. They have no personality and no motivations other than killing. Books from Nid, Ork and Eldar viewpoints don't work either, because they don't think like we do. You can't write if you don't relate.
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Feb 6, 2014 17:07
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berzerkmonkey posted:From the viewpoint of a Lord, it might work as a short story. The problem is that all of the Necrons are soulless robots who exist only to kill all living things. They have no personality and no motivations other than killing. Orks are the most human faction in the setting, including humans. 
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Feb 6, 2014 17:46
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Noctis Horrendae posted:I'll try it out if I can find some cheap paperbacks. Thanks for the recommendations, fellas. You may have to snoop around for used copies of the Night Lords books, since they're out of print in advance of the omnibus being released. You'd have thought GW wouldn't pull the pulps until the omnibus hit shelves, but that would imply somebody over there could find their rear end with both hands. Seriously guys I'm trying to give you money. Take it already.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:44
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I've been waiting for a book that follows a human in the Tau empire. Some human worlds join The Greater Good willingly, and apparently have a small representation within the ranks of the other non-Tau alien vassal races. The Tau are pretty multicultural, after all! Kroot, Vespid and all that. And often the people in Tau-conquered worlds are sterilized and/or put to work rather than just killed. Either way, I'd love to read a book from the perspective of a human who's never encountered the Imperium before outside Tau propaganda. Being a lower class alien species in their empire, and knowing that one's own race is the biggest threat in the Galaxy, or however the Imperium would be perceived.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:44
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Try Fire Caste by Peter Fehervari.
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Feb 6, 2014 21:01
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mdemone posted:You may have to snoop around for used copies of the Night Lords books, since they're out of print in advance of the omnibus being released. You'd have thought GW wouldn't pull the pulps until the omnibus hit shelves, but that would imply somebody over there could find their rear end with both hands. Yeah, the BL staff are absolutely brain dead when it comes to keeping books in print and the likes. They seem to make a habit of ceasing to print their most popular/best books; Visions of Heresy (the omnibus) and the satirical IG manual come to mind.
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Feb 6, 2014 21:52
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