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Esroc posted:I thought that was all explained as full-blooded Saiyan's aging slower than humans or half-breeds? A 13 year old Saiyan has the body of a toddler, a 25 year old Saiyan looks like he just hit puberty, and a 60 year old Saiyan looks like a college kid with a steroid habit. Except Goku goes from toddler-thing to basically full adult within one 3 year time skip. Hes drawn that way cuz it was funny then Toriyama decided he wanted to give him a grown up look.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:56
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Mister Roboto posted:It made for gags like bathtime Bulma going from "aw he's just a confused little boy" to "RAPIST PERVERT TEENAGE BOY KILL HIM." he was actually 9 if I remember, Lunch was the one who taught him to count on two hands. also it was later retconned into sayians having extremely long childhoods that transition straight into an adulthood that they don't age at all in.
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Feb 5, 2014 19:59
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I always thought that the transition from Kid Goku -> Goku during the Piccolo Jr. Arc -> Goku at the beginning of Raditz made sense
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Feb 5, 2014 20:01
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Law Cheetah posted:I always thought that the transition from Kid Goku -> Goku during the Piccolo Jr. Arc -> Goku at the beginning of Raditz made sense Am I wrong in thinking he looks like he grows a bit from, say, Pilaf saga Goku to King Piccolo saga Goku? He seems a bit taller/more defined then he was in the beginning where he was kind of barrel shaped. Also, just want to chime in and say that the current story arc in dragon ball multiverse is pretty interesting if no one's checked it out and wants to.
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Feb 5, 2014 20:20
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furiouskoala posted:Tree of Might fits in well as does World's Strongest (on the way to fight Raditz). Anything involving Goku using the Kaioken and/or Spirit Bomb and has Piccolo/Yamcha/Tien/Chaotzu alive is 100% out because Piccolo died between Goku getting revived and him arriving to fight Nappa and Vegeta. Piccolo is alive and well in both movies, the other 3 all appear in Tree of Might, and both Wheelo/Turles die to the Spirit Bomb. The earliest time Goku can use King Kai's moves while Piccolo/the others are alive and on earth is after he gets back from Namek and talks to Future Trunks.
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Feb 5, 2014 20:46
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The only two movies that totally fit are Bojack and Wrath of the Dragon. Maybe the first Cooler as well. The others, you have to do some pretty serious fanwank to explain the inconsistent behaviors and contradictions. Personally, I like to think of the DB movies as "What if the heroes DID beat the villain at a certain point?"
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Feb 5, 2014 22:35
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As Abridged Vegeta said of Tree of Might "this is so non-canon it hurts." My personal interpretatio of it is that it exists in an AU where everyone went to Namek but they didn't encounter Freeza. This could account for things like Yamcha having King Kai's symbol on his gi as well as Piccolo having a relatively high PL of 18K I think it was. He got that from training with king Kai. Also Turles was pretty awesome for just beign Evil Goku. he's voiced by Chris Patton (aka Greed. Sorry TroY Baker - Patton's Greed is my favorite) and he had dialogue like: Goku: I raised [Gohan] to know the difference between good and evil! Unlike some people... Turles: I know the difference - I just don't care. And Turles after eating one of the fruits must have had a very substantial PL for this point in the series. I think he was above even Ginyu. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 00:10
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Mister Roboto posted:The only two movies that totally fit are Bojack and Wrath of the Dragon. Maybe the first Cooler as well. Cooler happens after Goku gets back to Earth but Goku somehow didn't know how to activate Super Saiyan at will yet, which he states he had already done by the time he left Yardrat to go home. Also Gohan has a tail for some reason. Bojack fits, Wrath of the Dragon fits (although Goku is somehow stronger than Gohan post-Kai powerup in this one which is total bullshit), and you can make an argument for the first two Broly movies because of the 10 day wait for the Cell Games and the couple of weeks Gohan takes off from school to train for the tournament, but that's kind of a stretch.
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Feb 6, 2014 00:44
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WhiffleballDude posted:Cooler happens after Goku gets back to Earth but Goku somehow didn't know how to activate Super Saiyan at will yet, which he states he had already done by the time he left Yardrat to go home. Also Gohan has a tail for some reason. I didn't get the impression that Goku couldn't change at will in the first Cooler movie. Just that he held off on transforming until Cooler really pissed him off.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:05
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Movie 7 takes place in the timeline where trunks killed the present androids with the remote then returned to the future to be killed by cell. So I guess that makes it canon?Mister Roboto posted:The others, you have to do some pretty serious fanwank to explain the inconsistent behaviors and contradictions. By that logic that rules out movie 13.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:06
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Having been present at many a Broly's Power Level debates, I can safely say that Movie 8 doesn't fit because even though it hsa long-haired Trunks and would seem to be right before the Cell Games, Goku and Gohan are not constantly in their Super Saiyan forms. As such, they are not FPSSJ.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:36
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Speaking of Future Trunks in the movies, it was weird how he just seemed to be hanging around in the main timeline, though kind of heartwarming/breaking too if you take it as the Z Fighters being his only friends.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:39
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What happened to the dragonballs in Trunks' timeline that he couldn't just use them to wish everyone back to life after he killed the Androids again? It's been way too many years since I've watched any of this outside Abridged.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:46
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Well if Piccolo died to the androids there are no Dragonballs. It could be said that no one knew how to find New Namek as well.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:49
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tsob posted:What happened to the dragonballs in Trunks' timeline that he couldn't just use them to wish everyone back to life after he killed the Androids again? It's been way too many years since I've watched any of this outside Abridged. Piccolo died so there went Kami too. As to why he didn't get a ship to the new Planet Namek and use their balls...because reasons.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:49
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NikkolasKing posted:Piccolo died so there went Kami too. As to why he didn't get a ship to the new Planet Namek and use their balls...because reasons. I don't know if it applied to Planet Namek's balls (probably not thinking on the different time measurements.) but if I recall correctly, you need to wish someone back to life with the Dragonballs within a year of their death or it doesn't work. New namek was presumably too far away (or they didn't know where it was, I guess).
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Feb 6, 2014 01:59
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Esroc posted:I didn't get the impression that Goku couldn't change at will in the first Cooler movie. Just that he held off on transforming until Cooler really pissed him off. Yeah, you can handwave it with Goku trying to gauge, as usual, how much energy he had to use to take out the opponent, and also possibly not to overtire himself. WhiffleballDude posted:
Stairmaster posted:By that logic that rules out movie 13. Not really, while Gohan IS totally stronger, him being uninspired and slacking on his training is also part of his character, so it's not TOO hard to think that, maybe in the year or so from Buu to Wrath, he got lazy.
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Feb 6, 2014 02:01
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Gohan is probably stronger, but Goku will always be more skilled because training and fighting is his life. Along with food. And once a year, that thing Chi Chi does with her mouth.
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Feb 6, 2014 02:43
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Talking? 'Cause that's about how often he sees her.
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Feb 6, 2014 03:00
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tsob posted:Talking? 'Cause that's about how often he sees her. That's why she keeps that thing in her drawer that Freeza looks like an over sized version of.
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Feb 6, 2014 03:10
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It's also why Gohan has to pound her tuna, poor boy.
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Feb 6, 2014 03:16
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tsob posted:It's also why Gohan has to pound her tuna, poor boy. With Goku gone, Chi Chi needs someone to do it.
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Feb 6, 2014 03:43
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Prison Warden posted:I don't know if it applied to Planet Namek's balls (probably not thinking on the different time measurements.) but if I recall correctly, you need to wish someone back to life with the Dragonballs within a year of their death or it doesn't work. New namek was presumably too far away (or they didn't know where it was, I guess). I think that's a limitation only for Shenron, the Namek dragon could do it whenever. I just assumed the reason they never tried going to Namek was because the Androids would kill them when they tried to take off.
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Feb 6, 2014 04:25
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They wouldn't be able to find New Namek because the way they found it in the normal timeline was Goku searching got Dende's or other namekian energy. Future Trunks never met Dende or any namekian so he wouldn't know what to look for.
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Feb 6, 2014 04:33
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Well, he could travel back to the normal timeline, speak with Goku and either get the location from him or just learn instant transmission if Goku was feeling generous and then go back to his own time to use that knowledge.
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Feb 6, 2014 04:42
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tsob posted:Well, he could travel back to the normal timeline, speak with Goku and either get the location from him or just learn instant transmission if Goku was feeling generous and then go back to his own time to use that knowledge. Well if you want to go that route then having a time machine means Future Trunks could do quite literally anything. But like most media involving time travel the characters always seem to forget they have that power whenever it's convenient to the plot.
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Feb 6, 2014 04:48
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tsob posted:It's also why Gohan has to pound her tuna, poor boy. Which episode of Abridged is this referencing? One from the Frieza arc maybe?
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Feb 6, 2014 04:51
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Wow. This is some next level dragon ball z discussion. I never really got into the canon implications of the movies. Even as a kid I figured they logically didn't for and just rolled with it. Wha does piss me off is how the movies tended to save power ups until the good guys really needed them (super saiyan in 5 and 7, maybe 6 and kaioken in a few of the early ones). I get that you need to build suspense through a movie, but that just broke the flow of how it worked. Goku and friends always used their power ups almost immediately in every fight.
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Feb 6, 2014 04:53
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Episode 31 I think, the very first post Freeza one, where Krillin is pretending to be Juan Sanchez to claim his own life insurance.
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Feb 6, 2014 04:53
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WickedHate posted:Gohan is probably stronger, but Goku will always be more skilled because training and fighting is his life. They were fighting a kaiju, I don't think skill had much to do with it.
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Feb 6, 2014 04:56
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WhiffleballDude posted:They were fighting a kaiju, I don't think skill had much to do with it. "Skilled" can cover a lot of things in Dragon Ball Z, even if it's just managing and using what power you do have.
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Feb 6, 2014 04:57
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crankdatbatman posted:Wow. This is some next level dragon ball z discussion. After Lord Slug the movies basically follow the same pattern. Plot -> Villain Shows Up -> Hero either evens villain or gets dominated by him -> Power up, beat up villain, kill minions if they are in it -> Villain powers up -> Villain dominates -> Insert Spirit Bomb or Power combining here The movies very rarely deviated from this formula, one of the few ones being interestingly enough the First Movie which sets the template for villains in the future movies. Though that template really is Anime Villain 101 rather than something Garlic set the standard for. Though the first movie also has one of the most egregious examples of villain stupidity it might as well not count it doesn't follow the formula. If I remember correctly movie 12 is one that definitively does not follow this path and that is mostly due to the fact half of the movie follows Earth where the heroes dominated evil for the entire movie, meanwhile the A-Plot is more of the same, but at least it did something new to resolve the problem rather than Spirit Bomb for the millionth time. But yes, the situation always comes off as a bit stupid considering no one is ever really at full power right away to handle the threat efficiently. I guess you can make the argument they don't want to use unnecessary force, but it's not like that ever stopped anyone before.
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Feb 6, 2014 05:02
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Sex_Ferguson posted:After Lord Slug the movies basically follow the same pattern. Plot -> Villain Shows Up -> Hero either evens villain or gets dominated by him -> Power up, beat up villain, kill minions if they are in it -> Villain powers up -> Villain dominates -> Insert Spirit Bomb or Power combining here I understand why they do it. It's just always been a gripe of mine since that concept never appears in the manga/anime. The only fight I can think of where a good guy didn't use his highest power up at the beginning is Nappa, where Goku didn't use the kaioken because he was handling Nappa the whole way. Other than that, I guess you can count Vegeta vs Goku in the Buu saga but it's not really the same thing
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Feb 6, 2014 05:25
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Sex_Ferguson posted:After Lord Slug the movies basically follow the same pattern. Plot -> Villain Shows Up -> Hero either evens villain or gets dominated by him -> Power up, beat up villain, kill minions if they are in it -> Villain powers up -> Villain dominates -> Insert Spirit Bomb or Power combining here This is why I loved the most recent movie. It was all about silliness for a long stretch, which ruled, then when they finally get down to the requisite fight, Goku just admits he got stomped and the villain's all "Ok cool, let's fight again some time." The fight was kind of dumb, very paint-by-numbers, but Bills being so off-model at the end made up for it. It also paints a bright picture for Goku, finally having a contemporary that loves to fight as much as he does without any desires for conquest or genocide. Sure, Bills may blow up planets, but that is his job. When he threatens to blow up Earth, it's either out of anger or just a means to get Goku to have a fight.
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Feb 6, 2014 05:29
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Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Trunks say that what ever he does when he goes back in time, won't have any effect on his timeline? What's the point then? His world is still gonna be hosed?
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Feb 6, 2014 06:16
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Ak Gara posted:Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Trunks say that what ever he does when he goes back in time, won't have any effect on his timeline? What's the point then? His world is still gonna be hosed? He does end up going back and, thanks to his crazy rear end powerup, ends up stomping the poo poo out of the Androids. So there's that.
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Feb 6, 2014 06:23
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Ak Gara posted:Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Trunks say that what ever he does when he goes back in time, won't have any effect on his timeline? What's the point then? His world is still gonna be hosed? Yeah. If he changes the past is just creates an alternate timeline. He only keeps returning to the "main" timeline to spend time with Vegeta, and to a lesser extent, the gang as a whole. And to possibly find a way to kill the Androids there that can be used in his own timeline. Which his power-ups leading up to the Cell Games gave him a way to do that.
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Feb 6, 2014 06:26
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Nothing he did in the main timeline would affect his future, but he could bring stuff back to it. His goal was to find something that would help stop the androids, and he either gets the plans for the Android's shutdown switch or just gets so ridiculously powerful that he can beat 17/18/Cell without breaking a sweat.
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Feb 6, 2014 06:26
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Ak Gara posted:Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Trunks say that what ever he does when he goes back in time, won't have any effect on his timeline? What's the point then? His world is still gonna be hosed? Yep, he knows, because time travel in Dragonball Z doesn't actually exist. You can't change the past, you can only jump to a parallel universe where things went differently--which is a result of you jumping in the first place. The only ray of light in Trunks' universe is that now he's killed Cell and the androids, so for all intents he is now the strongest being on the planet by far, which means he and his mom can probably rebuilt humanity. A few what-if stories, like games and fanfics, often have future Trunks have to deal with Dabura and Babidi some years later.
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Feb 6, 2014 06:29
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WhiffleballDude posted:They were fighting a kaiju, I don't think skill had much to do with it. Yeah, and there's also a universal fact of Dragonball that everyone always forgets in power debates: The strongest person can still be beaten by the weakest if they're careless or taken off-guard. Goku defeating Hirudegarne because Gohan was out of commission is not a plothole in itself, since Gohan being knocked out is not a plothole either. Just because they're stronger doesn't mean they can't be beaten and a weaker person finishes the job. Arguably this happened a few times in the series, i.e. Vegeta being beaten by Krillin and Gohan (and Yajirobe). While Vegeta did beat Goku, the amount of damage done by Goku to Vegeta made him weak enough to be beaten by the weaker trio.
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Feb 6, 2014 06:33
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