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I didn't really get what people have been talking about with Katie Cassidy's face, but it's really obvious in this episode. I assume it's just weight loss? It is odd. The aforementioned lack of Super Roy was pretty odd too. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I know the producers said that Laurel will be Black Canary, but I hope they change their minds. I mean wasn't it last week where one of them said Roy wouldn't go to the Arrow Cave for at least half a season, then he goes there the same episode. Basically they should change their minds and let Sarah be Black Canary. Laurel can keep being a lawyer or whatever.  (And then again with her boobs in the chase sequence. I am sorry.)Paradise Lost posted:I still have a hard time believing that I'm watching a show on the CW and it's legitimately good.  Between that and Arrow alone, the CW have made some of the best TV in the last four or five years.
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Feb 6, 2014 09:08
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BrianWilly posted:
I completely disagree with you on this point. I don't think her hooking up with Oliver was presented as the Good to her previous relationships Bad at all. Mind you, I'm not saying there weren't things that could be interpreted that way, I'm just saying, I believe you are interpreting things in this case in the most negative possible way. I know this is your thing, and I won't be able to sway you on this, so just voicing my dissent and then letting it be. Also, I'm not sure why I didn't have the same reaction some of you did to acting quality or the like, I thought everyone did an amazing job this episode. Even Laurel. I'm super happy with how everything went down and so very glad that that they didn't kill off Sara. I hope we see a lot more of Nyssa.
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Feb 6, 2014 09:10
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Someone help me out: Does Oliver know that Mom was involved in sinking the Gambit? Does anyone other than Walter know? I forget how that all washed out. It's destroyed now, right?
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Feb 6, 2014 09:17
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Goddamn that episode owned. I'd list my favourite parts, but I'd just be listing the whole goddamn thing. So I'll just go with a quote that hasn't gotten enough love: "What, they didn't teach you about right crosses in assassin school?" Man, I really want Lance to find out about Ollie being the Arrow so that Ollie and Sara can train him. He's already a tough cop, but it would be great for another Assassin to try and kidnap him to get to Sara only to get their rear end thoroughly kicked.
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Feb 6, 2014 10:12
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I thought they did a very good job of showing Sara's fluidity on the kinsey scale. I was waiting for a clunky "So, you're one of them bisexuals now, ain't you?" moment to pop up, and it thankfully never came.
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Feb 6, 2014 10:22
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I would just like to point out that "young" Detective Lance was a dashing and handsome fellow just as I pointed out earlier.
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Feb 6, 2014 10:26
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Here's an interview with the producers where they talk about Sara and Nyssa's relationship. They also explain why Roy wasn't in the episode. quote:“There was an amazing sequence in here that we actually had that unfortunately we just had to cut for time because this episode was just so jam-packed. But we actually had Oliver tell Roy, ‘I want you to go down to the hospital and keep an eye on Laurel.' When Nyssa and her goon kidnap Mrs. Lance, Roy actually confronts them. Nyssa shoots him with a dart with snake venom and says, ‘A normal person would be dead by now. You're stronger than you look,’ and he says, ‘I get that a lot.’ Then they have a fight, but the venom starts to affect him, and she takes him out. It's a great sequence, and they're great in it, but it wasn't propelling the story forward. It was just a really neat moment."
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Feb 6, 2014 11:26
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^^That explains why the Arrow and the Canary just happened to be riding along on a motorcycle and randomly attack a passing van.BrianWilly posted:Yeah, this is the one thing I will complain about with this episode and leave it at that. Major kudos to the writers for exploring Sara and Nyssa's sexuality as a key component of this storyline, yay for them being basically awesome characters with a lot of depth. Yay for bisexual representation, yay for friends and family being understanding of Sara's situation, etc so on so forth. Sara's relationship with Nyssa is pretty similar to her relationship with Ivo. Person with questionable ethics rescues her from certain death, "protects" her and forces her to do increasingly evil things until something forces her to face the truth about what she's doing. I think most people will attribute Nyssa's poor reaction to the breakup as being the result of her growing up with a bunch of murder cultists and a guy who calls himself "The Demon" rather than a commentary on homosexuality. Despite all that, Sara's breakup with Nyssa went better than her breakup with Ivo.
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Feb 6, 2014 12:36
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Katrina Law  Loved that episode so much. I really hope we get to see a lot more of Nyssa, and I thought the way the show handled the Sara/Nyssa relationship was great. It was great that even in all the craziness of an Arrow episode they gave the time for Lance to be accepting of it.
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Feb 6, 2014 13:24
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Avulsion posted:Sara's relationship with Nyssa is pretty similar to her relationship with Ivo. Person with questionable ethics rescues her from certain death, "protects" her and forces her to do increasingly evil things until something forces her to face the truth about what she's doing. I think most people will attribute Nyssa's poor reaction to the breakup as being the result of her growing up with a bunch of murder cultists and a guy who calls himself "The Demon" rather than a commentary on homosexuality. Despite all that, Sara's breakup with Nyssa went better than her breakup with Ivo. But with Sara and Nyssa it's like, wow hey  , this show is being super inclusive and brave by finally including a same-sex relationsh...oh...oh okay it's actually depicted super unhealthily and basically comprises Sara trying to get as far the heck away from it as humanly possible  .I suppose describing her vagina's reunion with Ollie's penis as some sort of idyllic hetero-counterpoint to that toxic lady-love may be hyperbolizing a little on my part, but even the writers mention being worried about depicting Sara rebounding right back to a dude in the exact same episode. I mean...it's just one episode, the show's a long way from done, and it's certainly possible that Sara and Nyssa end up soaring happily into the sunset on the backs of pterodactyls or something. But for now I remain studiously grumpy about it. 
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Feb 6, 2014 13:30
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I didn't really see the relationship with Nyssa as something unhealthy or even something Sara wanted to get away from. If anything, it seemed like Sara's relationship with Nyssa surpassed her crush/infatuation or whatever it is she had going with Oliver. Being a member of the League and all of the killing was what broke Sara as she mentioned in that story when she killed the guy in his bed and his kids discovered the body. Were Nyssa anyone other than "heir to the demon", the two of them would probably ride off into the sunset together.
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Feb 6, 2014 14:14
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BrianWilly posted:That's a fair point, and I think for me it just comes down to the overall disparity of representation. There have been tons of straight romances on this show and on all other shows and we're 110% guaranteed tons of straight romances down the line; one or two of them can be creepy and manipulative and it's really no big deal. They still have Sin.
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Feb 6, 2014 14:26
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No mention of how Nyssa was the only one to pronounce Ra's' name correctly? For shame, Arrowthread. For shame.
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Feb 6, 2014 14:47
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She was the wrong one.
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Feb 6, 2014 14:51
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Taffer posted:I still hate the Laurel scenes. She definitely is justified in having a beef with Sarah, but that was really over the top, she's had 6 drat years to get over the anger and miss her sister. Though I guess it fits in with her character always being a pedantic child. As someone married to a woman with an unhinged older sister... their relationship is disturbingly accurate. This is the first time I actually liked having Laurel around. I think they finally found out what to do with her character other than being the damsel in distress, god knows where they plan to take her with this angst. Caity Lotz has this weird mush-mouth when she talks that really bugs me. Obviously, this episode was Sara's coming of age story.... her as a college Freshman running around with an older guy, then she disappears and experiments with her sexuality during her "angry lesbian" phase, and now she is more mature and ready to settle down in Sterling City and pop out a few Green Canaries. Seriously, though Sara & Nyssa's relationship really did seem like a cheap "hot women kissing" stunt. Just once I'd like to see a butch-female superhero. Nyssa should have been 6 ft, 220, with a buzzcut and a chest tattoo. Edit: I really hope they do something with Thea's character. Being a club owner and Roy's concerned girlfriend is wearing kinda thin. I am thinking she finds out she is Malcolm's daughter, goes to the dark side, and joins the Suicide Squad. maybe Killer Frost? That actress would actually make a good Harley Quinn but I don't think are going that close to the Batman repertoire. Are theories spoilers? York_M_Chan fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 14:58
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MildShow posted:They also explain why Roy wasn't in the episode. This show is so great, they can't contain their own awesomeness! They literally have too much good stuff to air. I think Laurel is justified in her anger, she's getting better each episode though they still need to work on her character a bit. Nyssa was awesome, I was sold on her at the airport scene. However, Lance decking her was the best thing. I'm really interested to see the fallout for Felicity letting slip Moira's secret. It's nice to be reminded that Moira can be rather cutthroat herself - I think she makes an interesting villain in that she is not the 'twirling mustache' type. She has some shades of grey thrown in, you can at least understand (if not agree with) some of her motivations. I also think her conflict with Blood in the mayoral race will turn out to be interesting. Also, guy taking the Sara/Nyssa thing as a condemnation of homosexual relationships: I think you are reading too much into it. You might have a point if they do this every time, but there is not really enough of a sample size to make such an analysis.
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Feb 6, 2014 14:59
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TyrantWD posted:I didn't really see the relationship with Nyssa as something unhealthy or even something Sara wanted to get away from. If anything, it seemed like Sara's relationship with Nyssa surpassed her crush/infatuation or whatever it is she had going with Oliver. Being a member of the League and all of the killing was what broke Sara as she mentioned in that story when she killed the guy in his bed and his kids discovered the body. Were Nyssa anyone other than "heir to the demon", the two of them would probably ride off into the sunset together. I find this to be accurate. I thought they were pretty sweet together at the start. Its just, y'know, these are pretty extreme people. Also count me in on those who find Laurel annoying and bitchy. She's arguably justified in her reaction, but so was Thea in season 1 and her walking around in hyper-aggressive douche-mode constantly was extremely aggravating. I just don't find it entertaining to watch Laurel be an emotionally-unbalanced prick to everyone around her. I simply don't sympathies with her at all. At the end of a day, even if shes justified, if she acts like a bitch in almost every scene I'm gonna think shes a bitch. But seriously, for fucks sake Felicity. Wait 10 minutes and then tell him. Jesus.
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Feb 6, 2014 15:12
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imperialparadox posted:Also, guy taking the Sara/Nyssa thing as a condemnation of homosexual relationships: I think you are reading too much into it. You might have a point if they do this every time, but there is not really enough of a sample size to make such an analysis. Yeah, to me it sounds like you're doing exactly what the producers wanted to avoid by labelling Sarah as queer and then cause of that you're holding her to standards that the writers weren't holding themselves to because they didn't want to soapbox. I'm all about LGBT representation in TV but I didn't have a problem with this. Sarah is just Sarah, she's always had a thing for Ollie and it's clear from this episode that she and Nyssa had (and still have) a deep emotional bond but it wasn't enough to deal with Sarah's experiences in the LoA.
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Feb 6, 2014 15:13
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From the source material standpoint, it's interesting though. One of the more notable writers for the comic version of the Canary was actually prevented from explicitly having her express interest in women, despite that being her intent, and now we have the TV version with a story heavily wrapped up in not just same-sex attraction, but a relationship. I'd praise DC, but this is kind of a two steps forward, one back time for them, given the Batwoman wedding thing.
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Feb 6, 2014 15:18
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Yeah but they can get away with it because that's not really Black Canary.
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Feb 6, 2014 15:19
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Oracle posted:I'm not suggesting he's back to his playboy days, I'm suggesting the last thing either of them need at this point in their lives is a complicated physical relationship, yet here we are. Again. And his track record in the romance department is not what you'd call stellar (see: Huntress aka more insane with grief/desire for revenge than even me, Isabel 'amoral, hostile business rival' Rochev (hey, she has a name!)). I am still waiting for her to actually do something this season. I mean she was listed in the book of all the evil people of Starling City(they shouldve had Ollie murder more 1% or at least do that in his spare time).
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Feb 6, 2014 15:25
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I kind of hope Laurel never becomes the Canary, Caity Lotz owns pretty hard
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Feb 6, 2014 15:25
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VagueRant posted:I didn't really get what people have been talking about with Katie Cassidy's face, but it's really obvious in this episode. I assume it's just weight loss? It is odd. I think the weight loss was role related - if not for Arrow, then for whatever else she has shooting. Someone on reddit posted this interview she did recently, and her face looks more "full" and normal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpGhQktkq0k
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Feb 6, 2014 15:37
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I wish we would have had a scene at the end of this episode where Oliver, without a shadow of a doubt, let Felicity know he didn't hold anything against her for letting him know about his mom, just to prove Moira wrong. At this point, their next interaction is likely to be her walking in on him and Sara post-coital, which probably won't help things.
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Feb 6, 2014 15:37
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Cassidy sold that final scene perfectly. I don't know what show you people are watching. 6 years of not being able to express how angry she was at Sarah for sleeping around with Oliver. Along with sadness of her dying in the first place. The fact that her Death caused her dad to become an alcoholic, her mom to get a divorce and dedicate her life to finding Sarah. Then in the short term she just lost her boyfriend and someone she loved "who died because of her", She lost her job, is going to lose her law license. Got poisoned, her mom kidnapped, all because of Sarah returning, which surprise. Sarah is alive. Her pouring that drink while laying all of that out was easily the best scene from that episode. And probably one of my favorite in the series.
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Feb 6, 2014 15:46
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Dexo posted:her mom to get a divorce and dedicate her life to finding Sarah. I wonder if that will cause new tension between mom and dad. "All those years you thought I was crazy, but see, I was right! I never gave up on our daughter!" 
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Feb 6, 2014 15:59
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RE: Nyssa's relationships, spoilers for anyone interested in the comics: In the comics, she tried to have a normal life away from Ra's but she has a very, very traumatic past involving a great deal of psychological and physical abuse, and it clearly has an effect on her interactions with just about every other person she knows. In particular, she tortures her sister by killing her over and over and over with various weapons to get back at Ra's and brainwash her. She's a bit ruthless as a result of what happened in her past. Granted, I don't know how much of an influence comics-Nyssa has on this show's interpretation of her, but the foundation is definitely there for her to make some rather manipulative choices involving other people.
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Feb 6, 2014 16:30
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Rhyno posted:I would just like to point out that "young" Detective Lance was a dashing and handsome fellow just as I pointed out earlier. Yeah, that was almost startling how different he looked just by being clean-shaven and nicely dressed. Though a lot of that was his acting to be fair. Blackthorne's got some chops. On a related note, I agree that Lotz has really struggled her way through a lot of her acting so far, but I think a lot of that just comes down to inexperience. She was worse when she first came. This show's directors seem to be awesome at training and improving their cast, I'm hopeful she'll keep improving. But as it stands, Cassidy's a better actress, she's just unfortunately not being given a lot to work with. It'll take a long while to get there, but if she can get the physicality down she could definitely be at least as good a Canary as Lotz.
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Feb 6, 2014 16:34
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Rarity posted:Yeah, to me it sounds like you're doing exactly what the producers wanted to avoid by labelling Sarah as queer and then cause of that you're holding her to standards that the writers weren't holding themselves to because they didn't want to soapbox. I'm all about LGBT representation in TV but I didn't have a problem with this. Sarah is just Sarah, she's always had a thing for Ollie and it's clear from this episode that she and Nyssa had (and still have) a deep emotional bond but it wasn't enough to deal with Sarah's experiences in the LoA. I was just bummed out that Nyssa acted so crazy when she thought Sarah died. You seriously didn't have an antidote just in case? I have to assume that Nyssa's revocation of Sarah's LoA membership will cause difficulties for her, though... and I would've assumed Sarah would know that (unless she's actually just going to say she died, which I wonder why she didn't do that earlier). It felt a little disappointing that she immediately went to having sex with Ollie. Also, to be honest, people Ollie have sex with always get poo poo on one way or the other. Huntress, Laurel, that lady detective...
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Feb 6, 2014 16:37
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Not being much of a DC fan, and never having read a Green Arrow comic, so i was no familiar with Nyssa. I didn't come away impressed with the character, she did a decent job but there wasn't much too it other than villain of the week.Dexo posted:Cassidy sold that final scene perfectly. I don't know what show you people are watching. It is a character that fans of the shows seems to hate, just because she had reasons to be mad at her sister, does not excuse her acting like a complete rear end in a top hat. And it is certainly not going to make people like her.
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Feb 6, 2014 16:41
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Oasx posted:Not being much of a DC fan, and never having read a Green Arrow comic, so i was no familiar with Nyssa. I didn't come away impressed with the character, she did a decent job but there wasn't much too it other than villain of the week.
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Feb 6, 2014 16:44
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Still weirder out by
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Feb 6, 2014 17:16
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Oasx posted:Not being much of a DC fan, and never having read a Green Arrow comic, so i was no familiar with Nyssa. I didn't come away impressed with the character, she did a decent job but there wasn't much too it other than villain of the week. I don't give any fucks about what character fans hate. Literally Zero. I'm talking from a pure acting standpoint. In Universe, yeah Laurel probably shouldn't be completely excused(though she did bring up valid points). And is an alcoholic on a downward spiral. Laurel probably could have handled it better, but given the state she is currently in it wouldn't have made sense for it to happen any other way. The creative team is writing her character to be unlikeable. I've interacted alcoholics and substance abusers before, they have almost perfectly gotten that character down. She is going through a bad time and is in a bad place right now. She's taking it out on everyone, and is refusing to get help. The fact that people think what they do about the character means the writers are doing their job. Cassidy is going a great job of selling the writer's intention for Laurel's character. If you don't think her character belongs in a Superhero show. Then sure. But don't act as if the actress is doing a bad job portraying the character. Or hell even the writers for how they wrote it.
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Feb 6, 2014 17:17
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jscolon2.0 posted:Still weirder out by In the Lance family, kidnappings and attempted murder are weekly occurrences... sexual identity is a curve ball he didn't expect.
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Feb 6, 2014 17:21
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Eddain posted:So Felicity just needs to go a bit psycho in order for Oliver to sleep with her? Wait, that's for an actual relationship. Sure, have Felicity inadvertently get exposed to some drug and become Psycholicity and she'd at least get a booty call. But only if she forgot it happened when she woke up or was forever scarred by the experience or something. Or she could actually enter into a relationship with Barry. That would get Oliver's motor running. Cityinthesesa posted:I honestly don't know why people think it's going to be a relationship as such, it seemed more like a friends with benefits thing. narcissus1916 posted:I don't know, guys. I didn't love tonight's episode. I'm not sure why Nyssa didn't entirely convince me - I liked the performance and the surprisingly nuanced handling of Sara's sexuality. VagueRant posted:She had me at the salmon ladder I feel bad for Laurel's actress. I mean how do you compete with that? King Burgundy posted:I completely disagree with you on this point. I don't think her hooking up with Oliver was presented as the Good to her previous relationships Bad at all. Mind you, I'm not saying there weren't things that could be interpreted that way, I'm just saying, I believe you are interpreting things in this case in the most negative possible way. I know this is your thing, and I won't be able to sway you on this, so just voicing my dissent and then letting it be. Avulsion posted:Sara's relationship with Nyssa is pretty similar to her relationship with Ivo. Person with questionable ethics rescues her from certain death, "protects" her and forces her to do increasingly evil things until something forces her to face the truth about what she's doing. Rarity posted:But seriously, for fucks sake Felicity. Wait 10 minutes and then tell him. Jesus. But then we wouldn't have had that awesome speech full of poorly-disguised loathing and double entendres! But yes, she really could have kept it to herself, except Felicity sucks at the lying, especially to Oliver who can read her like a book. She also has that annoying kind of morality that dictates she do poo poo like this, which is nice when it keeps the Arrow team on the straight and narrow but not so good when it comes to stuff like this. Captain capslock posted:I am still waiting for her (Isobel, aka River Tam) to actually do something this season. Dexo posted:Her pouring that drink while laying all of that out was easily the best scene from that episode. And probably one of my favorite in the series. I'm equally dreading and anticipating her finding out Oliver's hooked up with Sara again. Though at this point I will find it very, very hard to stomach if Sara dies and Laurel takes on the Canary role and reenters a relationship with Oliver AGAIN. I mean it was bad enough the first season when he came back and hosed up Tommy's relationship with her. Looking at his history, Oliver is just a relationship hand grenade. According to this episode, he's slept with 'ten girls that we know of' before he two-times Laurel with Sarah, hooks up with the only other chick on the island he's trapped on who his only other friend is in love with and then inadvertently gets her shot in the head and killed, comes back and fucks up his self-professed best friend's relationship with the girl he screwed over with her sister, hooks up with an unrepentant murderer so vicious and unforgiving it makes even mister 'you have FAILED THIS CITY' take a step back and go 'whoa, hold the phone,' hooks up with a chick he actively dislikes who is trying to take his company away from him when he's actually got more important things to do because... I'm still not entirely sure why this happened. Was it sweeps week? To maintain his worthless playboy cover? And now he's BACK with the chick whose sister he two-timed. All the while harboring feelings towards his loyal nice-girl assistant and getting jealous of her interest in a genuinely nice guy that she actually has a lot in common with but shutting her down the instant she so much as suggests anything between the two of them. Cityinthesea posted:Also, to be honest, people Ollie have sex with always get poo poo on one way or the other. Huntress, Laurel, that lady detective... Oracle fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 17:24
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Oracle posted:Oh god, I missed one? Who was the lady detective? She was in a few episodes. She and Ollie were dating, then she had to leave for reasons.
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Feb 6, 2014 17:28
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Outside of the Queen-family ladies, who HASN'T Ollie hooked up with, or at least had some kind of romantic feelings toward, on the show? There's Sin, and China White, and... I think that's it?
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Feb 6, 2014 17:37
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Oracle posted:Oh god, I missed one? Who was the lady detective? Shivakamini Somakandarkram!!! Huntress nearly killed her during her last visit to Starling. Oliver just has a bad case of CW poison-dick. At least one male lead in a CW show has horrible things happen to every girl he sleeps with. It's a staple of the channel at this point.
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Feb 6, 2014 17:43
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Didn't she get paralyzed? Maybe temporarily? I mean Christ. Now we just need River Tam to turn out to be Talia to really cement the point that Olly is a walking dick of death.
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Feb 6, 2014 17:53
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Ville Valo posted:Outside of the Queen-family ladies, who HASN'T Ollie hooked up with, or at least had some kind of romantic feelings toward, on the show? There's Sin, and China White, and... I think that's it? Laurel's mother.
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Feb 6, 2014 17:56
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