A return of Fascism in Europe?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > A return of Fascism in Europe?

ekuNNN: Nov 27, 2004; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

NihilismNow posted:

SP always polls great, watch them lose all of those gains and more in the 2 weeks before the election. Also the SP is coming from a rather weak position so it should really be considered a return to normal.
Not that it matters if the results should actually favour the SP. Even the labour party prefers to cooperate with the neo-liberal VVD before the (supposedly idealogically closer) SP. Most parties have shown themselves willing to co-operate with the quasi fascist PVV where almost no one will cooperate with the SP. I have to agree with the sentiment that the elites would rather tolerate fascists than socialists.

Wikileaks showed that the labour party excluded the possibility of working together with SP months before the elections in 2006:

quote:

8. (C) In a separate meeting with the Ambassador on May 17,
PvdA member (and close Bos advisor) Frans Timmermans rejected
outright any possibility of forming a coalition government
with SP. Timmermans stressed that Bos recognizes that even
to hint at such a possibility would alienate large numbers of
centrist voters both within and to outside the PvdA. In his
view, it would be foolish for the PvdA to trust anyone "who
used to be a communist."

http://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06THEHAGUE1184_a.html

# ? Feb 3, 2014 21:36

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# ? May 24, 2024 06:44

SSJ2 Goku Wilders: Mar 24, 2010

Well he's right... I mean sooner or later we would've forced them to enact some actual left policy lol

# ? Feb 3, 2014 22:20

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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V. Illych L. posted:

We see this in Denmark, in France and elsewhere - proto-fascist parties (or parties veering on bona fide straight-on fascism) are massively on the rise already in response to the european crisis, and they're gaining confidence.

For now, most right-populists are sort of fixed in this weird racial-libertarian paradigm, but I doubt that this will last.

On the subject, senior parties in our crypto-fascist party recently came out and argued openly for stopping muslim integration completely. There was zero backlash whatsoever, and they recently went from third to second largest party in the nation, though that is more directly related to the current historical crisis of leadership in the government coalition.

# ? Feb 4, 2014 08:22

Woolie Wool: Jun 2, 2006

One thing I've always wondered about fascism was, if a country like Nazi Germany actually did destroy all the inferior untermenschen and establish a global, invincible Reich of glorious Aryan warrior heroes and :jerkbag:

, did they have any idea where they would go next? Did fascism even have an endgame? Eventually, if you actually win, you will run out of people to fight, and thus a cultural/political order that's been bent entirely around kampf against other people and things is going to have a problem. Would they have just attacked each other and devoured their own regime like some sort of hosed-up fashoboros?

It's probably for the best no one found out.

# ? Feb 5, 2014 05:42

murphyslaw: Feb 16, 2007; It never fails

I'm far from an expert on this but it stands to reason that all the energy directed at dehumanizing and exterminating undesireables, having taken on a life of its own, would simply shift its attention from the 'obvious' Other in the population and quickly define a new Other to oppress and kill in order to legitimize itself. After all, fascism requires a simultaneously fearsome and ridiculous Other in order to persuade the people it rules to buy into all the other crap. I think the thousand year reich would basically cannibalize itself, paradoxically, to justify its existence within the span of a decade or so.

The very idea of racist Aryanism / teutonic origins theory itself lies on a shaky pseudoscientific interpretation of historical and genetic data and doesn't hold up very well to serious scrutiny. It is thus a very malleable concept, open to bias and the personal whims of influential policymakers. That you could virtually purchase your way into aryan-ness in Nazi Germany shows that the racial hierarchy and categorization could to some degree be circumvented, though it's very much a question of corruption rather than if Nazi officials legitimately believed in their own bullshit, which I believe most of them did.

# ? Feb 5, 2014 06:00

Woolie Wool: Jun 2, 2006

Well that's what I meant by "fashoboros"--if all that's left are Nazis and Nazified institutions, then the Nazis have no choice but to attack each other and the whole Reich dissolves into civil war because they cannot sustain themselves without a focus of hatred and aggression, and they cannot restrain themselves into fighting eternal limited wars (so that their objects of hate can be left to rebuild and be fought again) like Oceania could in 1984. When the fash go to war, they go all-in because their ideology requires no less.

Would anyone here call North Korea a fascist state? I certainly would after the ascendancy of Kim Jong-il and Juche in the '90s. Any real memory of communism in NK has been forgotten, it's all frothing nationalism, racism, and militarism as far as the eye can see now. Although the idea of North Korea going from debased communism to fascism and bypassing capitalism altogether certainly causes problems for Marxist analyses of fascism.

Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Feb 5, 2014

# ? Feb 5, 2014 06:21

Spiderfist Island: Feb 19, 2011

Woolie Wool posted:

Well that's what I meant by "fashoboros"--if all that's left are Nazis and Nazified institutions, then the Nazis have no choice but to attack each other and the whole Reich dissolves into civil war because they cannot sustain themselves without a focus of hatred and aggression, and they cannot restrain themselves into fighting eternal limited wars (so that their objects of hate can be left to rebuild and be fought again) like Oceania could in 1984. When the fash go to war, they go all-in because their ideology requires no less.

Would anyone here call North Korea a fascist state? I certainly would after the ascendancy of Kim Jong-il and Juche in the '90s. Any real memory of communism in NK has been forgotten, it's all frothing nationalism, racism, and militarism as far as the eye can see now. Although the idea of North Korea going from debased communism to fascism and bypassing capitalism altogether certainly causes problems for Marxist analyses of fascism.

BZ Meyers, who wrote a book on North Korean self-perception called The Cleanest Race, theorizes that NK has always been more Fascist in outlook than Stalinist, though it's its own weird beast. The NK government installed by Stalin wasn't properly "educated" in the correct Soviet ideology until a few years after the founding of the DPRK, and Meyers claims that much of the Japanese fascist and nationalist propaganda was essentially repurposed for Korean ultranationalism, which became a weird bedrock for the later Stalinist ideological trappings that never really went away. He points to the fact that many Korean Imperial propagandists worked for the DPRK after the end of Japanese colonization, and that several aspects of the Japanese Imperial imagery, like the divine leader being shown riding a white horse, are commonly found used for the Kim dynasty. There are some other things but I'm really just going off of memory right now.

Of course, North Korea's like some kind of exotic ceramic� it's been pressurized by internal and external factors to the point that its structure really isn't like anything else found on the earth. Since the 90s at least it's been more of a kind of ultra-nationalist feudal state than any other ideology or government in my opinion. Plus, much like with Kremlinology in the Cold War era, we don't really know what's going on behind the scenes and the vast majority of the things shown to us are obviously just ceremonial.

# ? Feb 5, 2014 08:51

Grognan: Jan 23, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Woolie Wool posted:

One thing I've always wondered about fascism was, if a country like Nazi Germany actually did destroy all the inferior untermenschen and establish a global, invincible Reich of glorious Aryan warrior heroes and , did they have any idea where they would go next? Did fascism even have an endgame? Eventually, if you actually win, you will run out of people to fight, and thus a cultural/political order that's been bent entirely around kampf against other people and things is going to have a problem. Would they have just attacked each other and devoured their own regime like some sort of hosed-up fashoboros?

It's probably for the best no one found out.

It turns into management, the same old networks and ossified conclusions. Eventually you have managers finding the designated enemy of progress for the quarter. Even if its false, untrue, and going to kill someone. As long as it finds someone to blame for the downside.

# ? Feb 5, 2014 09:13

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Woolie Wool posted:

Well that's what I meant by "fashoboros"--if all that's left are Nazis and Nazified institutions, then the Nazis have no choice but to attack each other and the whole Reich dissolves into civil war because they cannot sustain themselves without a focus of hatred and aggression, and they cannot restrain themselves into fighting eternal limited wars (so that their objects of hate can be left to rebuild and be fought again) like Oceania could in 1984. When the fash go to war, they go all-in because their ideology requires no less.

Actually, this is pretty much what Mussolini argued would happen in his "The Doctrine of Fascism", an eternal struggle against the Other, however that was defined.

This is described as a good thing.

# ? Feb 5, 2014 10:08

my dad: Oct 17, 2012; this shall be humorous

Cerebral Bore posted:

Actually, this is pretty much what Mussolini argued would happen in his "The Doctrine of Fascism", an eternal struggle against the Other, however that was defined.

This is described as a good thing.

Yeah, people aren't joking when they say that in fascism, violence is the end, not (just)the means.

# ? Feb 5, 2014 10:10

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Woolie Wool posted:

One thing I've always wondered about fascism was, if a country like Nazi Germany actually did destroy all the inferior untermenschen and establish a global, invincible Reich of glorious Aryan warrior heroes and , did they have any idea where they would go next? Did fascism even have an endgame? Eventually, if you actually win, you will run out of people to fight, and thus a cultural/political order that's been bent entirely around kampf against other people and things is going to have a problem. Would they have just attacked each other and devoured their own regime like some sort of hosed-up fashoboros?

It's probably for the best no one found out.

There's not really an endgame for a lot of philosophies other than "they lived happily ever after".

# ? Feb 5, 2014 13:24

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

computer parts posted:

There's not really an endgame for a lot of philosophies other than "they lived happily ever after".

That sure does beat "in the grim darkness of the future, there is only war" though.

# ? Feb 5, 2014 16:17

Woolie Wool: Jun 2, 2006

Warhammer 40,000 used to be a pretty fun satire of fascism and other authoritarian ways of thinking until people started taking it seriously and suddenly the joke wasn't a joke anymore.

Cerebral Bore posted:

Actually, this is pretty much what Mussolini argued would happen in his "The Doctrine of Fascism", an eternal struggle against the Other, however that was defined.

This is described as a good thing.

Metal Gear villains are real. :psyduck:

# ? Feb 5, 2014 16:28

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Neo-fascists seem to have largely dropped the concept of the forever war since WW2 for some reason.

# ? Feb 5, 2014 20:33

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Just to remind everyone of what the fascist endgame was envisioned to be, let's hear it straight from the horse's mouth:

Mussolini, The Doctrine of Fascism posted:

First of all, as regards the future development of mankind, and quite apart from all present political considerations. Fascism does not, generally speaking, believe in the possibility or utility of perpetual peace. It therefore discards pacifism as a cloak for cowardly supine renuncia�tion in contradistinction to self-sacrifice. War alone keys up all human energies to their maximum tension and sets the seal of nobility on those peoples who have the courage to face it. All other tests are substitutes which never place a man face to face with himself before the alternative of life or death. Therefore all doctrines which postulate peace at all costs are incompatible with Fascism. Equally foreign to the spirit of Fascism, even if accepted as useful in meeting special political situations -- are all internationalistic or League superstructures which, as history shows, crumble to the ground whenever the heart of nations is deeply stirred by sentimental, idealistic or practical considerations. Fascism carries this anti-pacifistic attitude into the life of the individual. " I don't care a drat � (me ne frego) - the proud motto of the fighting squads scrawled by a wounded man on his bandages, is not only an act of philosophic stoicism, it sums up a doctrine which is not merely poli�tical: it is evidence of a fighting spirit which accepts all risks. It signifies new style of Italian life. The Fascist accepts and loves life; he rejects and despises suicide as cowardly. Life as he understands it means duty, elevation, conquest; life must be lofty and full, it must be lived for oneself but above all for others, both near bye and far off, present and future.

Mussolini, The Doctrine of Fascism posted:

That the vicissitudes of economic life - discoveries of raw materials, new technical processes, and scientific inventions - have their importance, no one denies; but that they suffice to explain human history to the exclusion of other factors is absurd. Fascism believes now and always in sanctity and heroism, that is to say in acts in which no economic motive - remote or immediate - is at work. Having denied historic materialism, which sees in men mere puppets on the surface of history, appearing and disappearing on the crest of the waves while in the depths the real directing forces move and work, Fascism also denies the immutable and irreparable character of the class struggle which is the natural outcome of this economic conception of history; above all it denies that the class struggle is the preponderating agent in social transformations. Having thus struck a blow at socialism in the two main points of its doctrine, all that remains of it is the sentimental aspiration-old as humanity itself-toward social relations in which the sufferings and sorrows of the humbler folk will be alleviated. But here again Fascism rejects the economic interpretation of felicity as something to be secured socialistically, almost automatically, at a given stage of economic evolution when all will be assured a maximum of material comfort. Fascism denies the materialistic conception of happiness as a possibility, and abandons it to the economists of the mid-eighteenth century. This means that Fascism denies the equation: well-being = happiness, which sees in men mere animals, content when they can feed and fatten, thus reducing them to a vegetative existence pure and simple.

Mussolini, The Doctrine of Fascism posted:

The Fascist State expresses the will to exercise power and to command. Here the Roman tradition is embodied in a conception of strength. Imperial power, as understood by the Fascist doctrine, is not only territorial, or military, or commercial; it is also spiritual and ethical. An imperial nation, that is to say a nation a which directly or indirectly is a leader of others, can exist without the need of conquering a single square mile of territory. Fascism sees in the imperialistic spirit -- i.e. in the tendency of nations to expand - a manifestation of their vitality. In the op�posite tendency, which would limit their interests to the home country, it sees a symptom of decadence. Peoples who rise or rearise are imperialistic; renunciation is characteristic of dying peoples. The Fascist doctrine is that best suited to the tendencies and feelings of a people which, like the Italian, after lying fallow during centuries of foreign servitude, are now reasserting itself in the world.

Mussolini posted:

Struggle is at the origin of all things, for life is full of contrasts: there is love and hatred, white and black, day and night, good and evil; and until these contrasts achieve balance, struggle fatefully remains at the root of human nature. However, it is good for it to be so. Today we can indulge in wars, economic battles, conflicts of ideas, but if a day came to pass when struggle ceased to exist, that day would be tinged with melancholy; it would be a day of ruin, the day of ending. But that day will not come, because history ever discloses new horizons. By attempting to restore calm, peace, tranquility, or. A would be fighting the tendencies of the present period of dynamism. Ore must be prepared for other struggles and for other surprises. Peace will only come when people surrender to a Christian dream of universal brotherhood, when they can hold out hands across the ocean and over the mountains. Personally I do not believe very much in these idealisms, but I do not exclude them for I exclude nothing. (At the Politeama Rossetti, Trieste , September 20, 1920 ; in Discorsi Politici, Milano, Stab. Tipografico del � Popolo d' Italia � , 1921, p. 107)

The entire thing can be found here. It is a pretty educational and sobering read, all in all.

Also neo-fascists have dropped the forever war rethoric, but the core idea is unfortunately still alive and well.

# ? Feb 5, 2014 23:30

Woolie Wool: Jun 2, 2006

God drat Mussolini was a turgid and unreadable writer.

# ? Feb 6, 2014 01:45

kustomkarkommando: Oct 22, 2012

Raskolnikov38 posted:

Neo-fascists seem to have largely dropped the concept of the forever war since WW2 for some reason.

Just to add to Cerebral Bore's great post above, Evola wrote extensively on the importance of a forever war but he added significant metaphysical elements to. Neo-Fascism is obsessed with Evola and has largely adapted their ideas on perpetual conflict to reflect Evola's interpretations, so you will hear the same idea being repeated but dressed in fancier clothes. Evola believed in the sanctity of warfare as a manifestation of the inner struggle for enlightenment that in itself has value, it is the bridge between the metaphysical realm and the physical realm. Here are some extracts from his 1941 essay "The Meaning of the Warrior Element For The New Europe" (written in praise of the Fascist cause in WW2):

quote:

It is necessary to become well aware that specifically warrior values, in the military context, are only representations of a reality which, in itself, can have a higher, not merely ethical, but even metaphysical meaning..

[We recall] that ancient Aryan humanity habitually conceive of life as a perpetual battle between metaphysical powers, on the one hand the uranic forces of light and order, on the other hand the dark forces of chaos and matter. This battle, for the ancient Aryan, was fought and won both in the outer and inner world. And it was exterior battle which reflected the battle to be fought in oneself, which was considered as the truly just war: the battle against those forces and peoples of the outer world which possessed the same character as the powers in our inner being which must be placed under subjection and domination...

The relation which, according to the aforementioned Aryan and traditional views, exists between inner struggle and 'just war' is useful, in addition, in preventing the equivocal irrationalism of a tragic and irrational vision of the world, and also allows one to go beyond a certain hardening, devoid of light, found in some subordinate aspects of the purely military style. According to the highest view, which is resurfacing today in the staunchest and most potent forces of our peoples, warrior-like discipline and combat are connected with a certain 'transfiguration' and participation in an effective 'spirituality'. This is how an idea of 'peace' which has nothing to do with materialistic, democratic-bourgeois conception is outlined: it is a peace which is not the cessation of the spiritual tension at work in combat and in warrior-like asceticism, but rather a sort of calm and powerful fulfillment of it...

It is useless to delude ourselves that a warrior civilization can have the same consideration for the so-called 'world of sciences and arts' as that which they enjoyed in the previous age of liberalism and of the Nineteenth-century bourgeois. They may retain their own significance but in a subordinate manner, because they represent not what is essential, but the accessory. The main thing consists instead in a certain inner style, a certain formation of the mind and character, a simplicity, clarity and harshness, a directly experienced meaning of existence, without expressionisms, without sentimentalism, a pleasure of commanding, obeying, acting, conquering and overcoming oneself.

And thus war becomes peace

# ? Feb 6, 2014 01:47

burnishedfume: Mar 8, 2011; You really are a louse...

Woolie Wool posted:

God drat Mussolini was a turgid and unreadable writer.

Maybe fascism's anti-academic leanings stems not from embracing the idea of action for the sake of action, but because they all suck at it.

# ? Feb 6, 2014 01:54

Spiderfist Island: Feb 19, 2011

Woolie Wool posted:

God drat Mussolini was a turgid and unreadable writer.

Giovanni Gentile ghost-wrote it instead I think. Mussolini was too busy killing Ethiopians with poison gas and yelling in front of podiums at the time.

# ? Feb 6, 2014 02:11

Job Truniht: Nov 7, 2012; MY POSTS ARE REAL RETARDED, SIR

This was from the man who vehemently denied his history as as part of the pacifist opposition to Italy's colonial activity in Tripoli. Yeah, Mussolini was kind of a hack.

# ? Feb 6, 2014 02:17

SickZip: Jul 29, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Spiderfist Island posted:

Giovanni Gentile ghost-wrote it instead I think. Mussolini was too busy killing Ethiopians with poison gas and yelling in front of podiums at the time.

I was unfamiliar with him so I looked up his wikipedia entry and lol

quote:

Murdered unarmed on the frontdoor of his home by an antifascist squad, his death is the weatness of the cruelty and brutality of the so called italian resistance.

I somehow doubt that meets even wikipedia standards.

# ? Feb 6, 2014 08:29

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Woolie Wool posted:

God drat Mussolini was a turgid and unreadable writer.

The mongrel language of England can't replicate the perfection of the Italian language.

# ? Feb 6, 2014 11:17

ekuNNN: Nov 27, 2004; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

quote:

A firebombing attack last night in Hamburg killed 3 asylum seekers (a woman and 2 children) and injured 20. This comes after weeks of huge protests by asylum seekers, anarchists, and others defending squatted social centers and houses in the city from eviction.

http://www.eimsbuetteler-nachrichten.de/brandstiftung-in-asylbewerberhaus/

# ? Feb 6, 2014 23:08

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

loving hell :sigh:

# ? Feb 6, 2014 23:12

Emanuel Collective: Jan 16, 2008; by Smythe

Mein Kampf is worthless drivel by a crazy hack but people keep buying it anyway

# ? Feb 7, 2014 00:49

Noctis Horrendae: Nov 1, 2013

Emanuel Collective posted:

Mein Kampf is worthless drivel by a crazy hack but people keep buying it anyway

Reading the ramblings of a madman is arguably one of the most interesting things you can so when you run out of proper reading material.

# ? Feb 7, 2014 00:55

ekuNNN: Nov 27, 2004; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Noctis Horrendae posted:

Reading the ramblings of a madman is arguably one of the most interesting things you can so when you run out of proper reading material.

Counterpoint: the una-bomber manifesto is really really boring.

# ? Feb 7, 2014 01:33

Captain_Maclaine: Sep 30, 2001; Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Noctis Horrendae posted:

Reading the ramblings of a madman is arguably one of the most interesting things you can so when you run out of proper reading material.

ekuNNN posted:

Counterpoint: the una-bomber manifesto is really really boring.

So is Mein Kampf. Not all rambling madmen are interesting rambling madmen, some are just long winded and full of themselves.

# ? Feb 7, 2014 01:37

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

When it comes to quality of writing by rambling madmen it's important to realize that Breivik was actually good comparatively, and his was terrible.

# ? Feb 7, 2014 12:00

Guildencrantz: May 1, 2012; IM ONE OF THE GOOD ONES

Woolie Wool posted:

One thing I've always wondered about fascism was, if a country like Nazi Germany actually did destroy all the inferior untermenschen and establish a global, invincible Reich of glorious Aryan warrior heroes and , did they have any idea where they would go next? Did fascism even have an endgame? Eventually, if you actually win, you will run out of people to fight, and thus a cultural/political order that's been bent entirely around kampf against other people and things is going to have a problem. Would they have just attacked each other and devoured their own regime like some sort of hosed-up fashoboros?

It's probably for the best no one found out.

I think modern Polish nationalism is a great example of the fact that there's always an Other to fight. Poland is one of the most ethnically and religiously homogenous countries in the world, and quite admired for this by stormfront types, and yet our local fash still screams about purification. In the absence of Muslims, Jews and foreigners, the enemy is gays and feminists - and with the weakness of the LGBT and feminist movements, ultraconservatives have now declared war on the very idea of gender ( :psyduck:

). And in the absence of communists and other left-wingers, they just declare centrist liberals as deep-cover commies, problem solved.

Even an ideologically "pure" society will develop differences because that's a thing humans do, and fascism will always try to quash any trace of nonconformity. It's a self-perpetuating cycle and I wouldn't worry about them running out of enemies even if they "won".

# ? Feb 7, 2014 16:01

OrganizedInsanity: May 30, 2013; by Ralp

Guildencrantz posted:

I think modern Polish nationalism is a great example of the fact that there's always an Other to fight. Poland is one of the most ethnically and religiously homogenous countries in the world, and quite admired for this by stormfront types, and yet our local fash still screams about purification. In the absence of Muslims, Jews and foreigners, the enemy is gays and feminists - and with the weakness of the LGBT and feminist movements, ultraconservatives have now declared war on the very idea of gender (). And in the absence of communists and other left-wingers, they just declare centrist liberals as deep-cover commies, problem solved.

Even an ideologically "pure" society will develop differences because that's a thing humans do, and fascism will always try to quash any trace of nonconformity. It's a self-perpetuating cycle and I wouldn't worry about them running out of enemies even if they "won".

I don't get how declaring war on the idea of gender makes you conservative. Isn't that what troons are all about these days?

# ? Feb 7, 2014 16:03

SSJ2 Goku Wilders: Mar 24, 2010

^Please educate yourself: https://www.google.com

# ? Feb 7, 2014 16:38

OrganizedInsanity: May 30, 2013; by Ralp

SSJ2 Goku Wilders posted:

^Please educate yourself: https://www.google.com

That doesn't answer how EU conservatives are apparently against the idea of gender roles when every other conservative group in the world is for it.

# ? Feb 7, 2014 16:40

Zohar: Jul 14, 2013; Good kitty

OrganizedInsanity posted:

That doesn't answer how EU conservatives are apparently against the idea of gender roles when every other conservative group in the world is for it.

I assume it's that they deny that gender is a distinct thing from sex.

e: Yep:

quote:

When describing this gender ideology, church officials have referenced the central premise of gender theory -- that gender is a product of culture and not inherent to human nature.

# ? Feb 7, 2014 17:05

Gantolandon: Aug 19, 2012

Guildencrantz posted:

I think modern Polish nationalism is a great example of the fact that there's always an Other to fight. Poland is one of the most ethnically and religiously homogenous countries in the world, and quite admired for this by stormfront types, and yet our local fash still screams about purification. In the absence of Muslims, Jews and foreigners, the enemy is gays and feminists - and with the weakness of the LGBT and feminist movements, ultraconservatives have now declared war on the very idea of gender (). And in the absence of communists and other left-wingers, they just declare centrist liberals as deep-cover commies, problem solved.

Even an ideologically "pure" society will develop differences because that's a thing humans do, and fascism will always try to quash any trace of nonconformity. It's a self-perpetuating cycle and I wouldn't worry about them running out of enemies even if they "won".

It seems less hilarious than it sounds after considering that these nationalists make up the second largest party in the Polish Sejm, which is now more popular than the neoliberal ruling party. If there were elections right now, they would probably win.

# ? Feb 8, 2014 13:06

Torrannor: Apr 27, 2013; ---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

ekuNNN posted:

http://www.eimsbuetteler-nachrichten.de/brandstiftung-in-asylbewerberhaus/

The latest news revealed that this had nothing to do with fascism. It was a 13 year old boy who is member of the youth fire department. He confessed the crime, and is now in psychological treatment (in Germany, children under 14 year old cannot be held accountable for any crimes the commit, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_infancy).

So while this was a big tragedy it was at least not motivated by xenophobia.

# ? Feb 8, 2014 15:32

Forgall: Oct 16, 2012; by Azathoth

Torrannor posted:

The latest news revealed that this had nothing to do with fascism. It was a 13 year old boy who is member of the youth fire department. He confessed the crime, and is now in psychological treatment (in Germany, children under 14 year old cannot be held accountable for any crimes the commit, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_infancy).

So while this was a big tragedy it was at least not motivated by xenophobia.

That still doesn't explain why he thought it was a good idea to set some refugees on fire.

# ? Feb 8, 2014 15:46

ekuNNN: Nov 27, 2004; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Torrannor posted:

The latest news revealed that this had nothing to do with fascism. It was a 13 year old boy who is member of the youth fire department. He confessed the crime, and is now in psychological treatment (in Germany, children under 14 year old cannot be held accountable for any crimes the commit, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_infancy).

So while this was a big tragedy it was at least not motivated by xenophobia.

Ah, good to know that it wasn't a racist attack, at least.

# ? Feb 8, 2014 15:49

Baron FU: Apr 3, 2009

Forgall posted:

That still doesn't explain why he thought it was a good idea to set some refugees on fire.

The house was supposed to be vacant. There's no reason to think that the kid knew it wasn't.

# ? Feb 8, 2014 15:54

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# ? May 24, 2024 06:44

Guildencrantz: May 1, 2012; IM ONE OF THE GOOD ONES

Gantolandon posted:

It seems less hilarious than it sounds after considering that these nationalists make up the second largest party in the Polish Sejm, which is now more popular than the neoliberal ruling party. If there were elections right now, they would probably win.

Eh, I was talking more about the actual bona fide fascists, like ONR/RN and rest of the Independence March clowncar. It's an open question as to whether PiS, as well as their ideological kin like Fidesz in Hungary, can be described as "fascist" if you're not just using the term as an insult. Don't get me wrong, they're still utter cunts and if they win I'll have a one-way plane ticket booked faster than you can say "Prime Minister Kaczynski", but I don't think they can accurately be termed fash. Modern national-conservatism is kind of its own thing.

# ? Feb 8, 2014 16:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > A return of Fascism in Europe?

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