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slut chan posted:...Also, question to contribute more to the conversation, would fractal-ing a consequence to give it an attack to simulate bleeding damage be a little too much? Like if you have the consequence Run Through placed on you, would having that aspect occasionally inflicting one or two stress until it is put on the mend be too fiddly? This could be cool, but I'd consider it a set-piece "encounter." If you've seen The Princess Bride (and if you haven't, you should) think of the final scene, between Humperdinck and The Man in Black. For spoilery reasons, TMiB is fighting against not just Humperdinck, but a major injury that results from a previous concession/take-out (depending on how you look at it). This scene could have been constructed in a similar way to your suggestion above. Instead of occupying a spot on his consequence track, as well, I'd simply stat it up as an opponent for the duration of time to which it applies. His character would totally see it as a consequence/wound, but it would function like an additional enemy; attacking -- and being attacked -- in a different way.
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Feb 3, 2014 15:15
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Fenarisk posted:I also slapped in a spot to name your muse near the character name. I always had trouble with Muses in play: it doubled the amount of NPCs per character. If I were to run Eclipse Phase (which I may after my pulp game), I'd give the party one collective one, the way the Power Rangers have Alpha.
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Feb 5, 2014 21:46
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TurninTrix posted:FATE-powered mecha game, Apotheosis Drive X, is now on sale for five bucks in RPGNow. So did you pick that up? What did you think? I didn't really care for the way Camelot Trigger did mecha, though I found Camelot Trigger in general mildly disappointing. When a friend mentioned "King Aurthur + Mecha" I was hoping for Medieval Mecha similar to Escaflowne as opposed to King Aurthur flavored Space Opera with Mecha. I've recently been idly toying with the idea of Crimson Skies via Fate and was debating on whether to do planes/air-combat similar to Kriegszeppelin Valkyire from Fate Worlds 1 or something more elaborate.
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Feb 6, 2014 02:48
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Has anyone ever used Fate diceless before? It seems like it would be pretty much the perfect story-driven "no randomization" system.
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Feb 6, 2014 23:16
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Galaga Galaxian posted:So did you pick that up? What did you think? I didn't really care for the way Camelot Trigger did mecha, though I found Camelot Trigger in general mildly disappointing. When a friend mentioned "King Aurthur + Mecha" I was hoping for Medieval Mecha similar to Escaflowne as opposed to King Aurthur flavored Space Opera with Mecha. #ADX is a really good game, settingwise. It's a terrible game mechanicswise. Say what you will about Camelot Trigger's world (I have some problems with it myself), it did mechbuilding right. #ADX falls into the age-old trap of splitting pilot abilities and mech abilities and then forcing you to pay for both out of the same pool, meaning you can only be a good pilot OR a functional human being, not both. In fact, I may as well just go ahead and tell you what all of its pros and cons are so you can make an informed decision about whether you want to buy it or not: Pros: -The setting is good, really good. Lovely stuff and if you like fluff, you'll love it (as I did). -It includes a system for representing emotional proximity via Zones that is absolutely brilliant. Your starting emotional proximity ranges from Aloof (four zones away) to Heated and Intimate (one and no zones away respectively), depending on how many Aspects you and your opponent share (such as direct relationship Aspects, being part of the same faction, or sharing an ideology) and which you can move through freely one zone at a time, and every single proximity status except Aloof has a special rule to it. For instance, when you're emotionally Intimate with someone, compelling their Aspects doesn't cost you a Fate Point! This provides a real, tangible incentive to using Zones to represent emotional conflicts, which is awesome and you could easily poach it for other relationship-driven games to excellent effect. -It includes an implementation of d6s into Fudge that doesn't suck, which blew my mind. Starting with the fourth of the game's generations (out of 7), you gain access to a Drive Die, which is a d6 you can swap a fudge die out for. The catch is, this d6 can only be used when you're doing something favored by your Drive (the thing that pushes your pilot to fight and succeed where others would fail), you have to spend a Fate Point, and can only use it a number of times equal to your Transcend skill, which may as well be 'Limit Break: The Skill'. It's inspired me in my stuntmaking, and I love the concept of it. It's a much better way to go about implementing d6s than Kerberos Club's 'hurr de hurr hurr let's give players different tiers of power and being a tier down against someone means you're boned, hurr hurr hurrrrrrrrr' system. -It includes the idea of controlling characters other than your own, who are the 'bit' characters and whom you can elevate to prominence by spending a point of refresh to give them a skill ladder up to Great (the same cap as PCs). The execution has some problems, but the idea is excellent. -It includes a set of Directives to follow that will help rookie Gms find their footing. Consdiering new blood is what keeps the hobby alive, that can't be anything but a good thing. -Each Generation is tangibly stronger than the last, as climbing up the Generational ladder gives you a bonus for each subsequent generation, all of which stack. A Generation 6 Titan is exactly the terrifying force of nature you'd expect him to be, which rocks! Cons: -It falls into the trap of splitting pilot skills and mech skills, and then you have to pay for them out of the same (small) skill pool. If you wanted a guy who was an ace marksman in all situations (a really, really simple concept that I just picked out of a hat while writing this that a robot game should be able to handle no sweat), you're hosed, because you need to burn a stunt for it. Did I mention you only start with 3 refresh and two free stunts, even less than FATE Core? Yyyyyyep, you do. Siiiiiiigh... -The implementation of the Transcend skill is garbage. The idea of the Drive Die is good, but look at what I wrote in the Pros section: its main schtick only comes online in Generation 4, but the skill is available from Generation 1 onwards. Surely it does something else, though, you say! Well...yes, and no. It allows you to attack with it, overcome obstacles with it, and create advantages...if, and only if, you've filled a Severe Consequence already. You know, the biggest consequence you have, the one you fill in when you've ticked off everything else and take an enormous blow? Yep, that one. In practice, Transcend is a skill tax that you put at 1 or 2 on a pilot so you can use the Drive Die a bit and summarily ignore. Great design, guys! -The Mech Creation system is hosed too. See, there's three options to choose from when making a mech: Weapons, Defense and Armor, each of which will also have an Aspect, and you get three points to distribute between them as you see fit. Weapons does nothing because its effect is listed nowhere in the book (at least as far as I can tell. Disclaimer: My PDF is still an alpha version so this may have been finally fixed, but it's unlikely. Someone else confirm/deny if it did?), Defense gives you stress boxes (did I mention your Titan never starts with any stress boxes? Can you say 'point tax'?), and Armor gives you a Moderate Consequence per point, normally a Titan has no moderates, only Milds and a Severe if you don't buy Armor. So you have a trap stat, a must-take stat because otherwise you get exploded in record time, and an alright stat that you'll stack to holy hell once you've capped your Defense (you spend a point of refresh for two more points for your Titan - it's a good idea to dunk 3 points to defense and 2 to Armor to get a beef-machine and ignore the useless Weapons stat). Not exactly brilliant design, here. -Directives and Challenges are loving godawful, and whoever came up with them should be shot. See, the most remarkable thing about #ADX? Unlike every other FATE game ever, the GM starts with no Fate Points. Not for the opposition, not for compels. You heard it right: If you take a compel to start things off in #ADX, you get no FP reward for it, no matter how much the GM wants to give it to you. This is because he only earns FP when following the Directives. This means two things: One, the 'best' course of action to survive a session is to make sure the GM can trigger no directives (since they determine his FP pool for enemies for the most part, meaning you can bleed him dry) which includes things like making sure your pilots aren't recognized as being awesome and no hard-hitting themes are explored. Two, that by doing the smartest thing you can do as a player, the thing the game mechanically encourages you to do, you reduce your fun. A game should never punish you for doing fun things by making your life harder, nor make things easier for you if you're boring. That's dumb as hell! Then you have the Challenge system, the guaranteed way to earn Fate Points PCs have by challenging their beliefs. There's two problems with it, too: One, you can only do it once per session, so uh, good luck bro, hope you can use that one Fate Point to great effect. Two, the penalties and costs associated with it are pants on head retarded. See, you declare that one of your Aspects is on the line on a roll and gun for success, getting a FP if you succeed, and you cannot invoke any Aspects for it so you're gambling with your soul, putting yourself at risk of changing your mind on something important to you if you fail. Awesome and flavorful, right? Go big or go home, right? Yeah, except you take a -2 penalty to the roll on top. Yes, you read it right: On that roll where you challenge your beliefs and do something that could reaffirm your beliefs or change the way your character thinks about things forever, you're much more likely to fail. And if you happen to fail the roll? Whoops, you're taken out of the scene instantly. Sucks to be you I guess! Needless to say, a savvy player will never use this because gambling on an extra-hard roll to get one fate point in exchange for possibly taking your character out of a key scene is garbage, but it's particularly insidious because it will fool people who aren't interested in math to try to Challenge in a climactic scene, KOing themselves and leaving the other characters facing that much more risk of losing the conflict outright. What kind of moron came up with this? So yeah, #ADX is a neat setting, but its mechanics are terrible, something I didn't think was possible in FATE Core. If you want to buy it for the fluff, do it, but I highly suggest getting FATE Worlds first so you can replace every rulesy bit except emotional zones with Camelot Trigger's stuff (and I guess rework the Transcend skill so it keeps the Drive Die but is useful and usable without it, too). It's not a worthwhile game if you want to mechanically represent charged, high-stakes mech action. Transient People fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Feb 7, 2014 |
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Feb 7, 2014 00:17
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So I wasted my money getting it?  I know KZV doesn't fall into that skill-splitting trap--shoot works just as well for aircraft weapons as it does for normal ones. That's something I'll need to keep in mind. Also, Galaga Galaxian, just to let you know, I would totally sign on for a Crimson Skies hack. Although would that be a modded KZV?
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Feb 7, 2014 00:39
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If you think playing out an enormous campaign that starts as Mobile Suit Gundam and ends with G Gundam and Turn A while passing through Z and ZZ is awesome, then #ADX is money well spent. It's so easy to run a game like that it's kind of scary. I think it's one of those quintessential 'GM books' where the guy who wants to play the setting buys it and then passes it around the table. No need for everybody to have a copy, really.
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Feb 7, 2014 00:42
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Yeah, I like the way that Valkyrie handled the planes, they're just "stunt based extras". Each has a refresh cost and gave a specific advantage. For example, the German Fokker D.VII (an excellent late war plane that the allies feared and forced the Germans to surrender surviving aircraft as part of the armistice) costs 3 refresh and gives +2 to pilot rolls to defend or create an advantage and grants Weapon:2 (+2 stress basically?) once per combat on a hit. Meanwhile the British S.E.5a is another excellent late war fighter that costs 3 refresh as well and gives +1 to all shoot attacks and +2 to create an advantage when speed is important. On the opposite end of the spectrum are outdated fighters that give less, the French Nieuport 28* costs a mere 1 refresh but only gives a +2 to creating an advantage. Even cheaper is the Nieuport 17, a 1916 fighter that costs no refresh and gives no bonuses at all, though the book comments that any pilot who manages to succeed in such an obsolete plane may quickly garner even more fame (and being famous is the #1 stated goal of the players, above and beyond the goal of actually defeating the villain!) It should be noted KZV pilots start with 5 refresh, rather than 3. Anyways, I just like that simple way of handling the "mecha", in that they're just an extension of the character like any other piece of equipment. Less focus on the plane, more on the character themselves. Though the best part of the way KZV does the airplanes is requiring you to create an advantage on an opponent before attacking them, making it a true dogfight (you actually can attack without an advantage, you're just limited to doing a maximum of 1 stress of damage). My biggest hang up with the thought of running KZV, and this is probably a case of me thinking too hard/realistically, is player communication in the planes. Wireless aircraft radios were huge, heavy and cumbersome affairs in WW1 and basically morose code only. I suppose one could always pull out fancy future-tech (given they've got a flying Zeppelin carrier and all) but part of me finds the idea of forcing players to communicate during flight via nothing but gestures and various colored flare gun rounds amusing. Especially given the whole "Top Gun"esque "I will prove I am the best  " angle (making this exact phrase the trouble concept for every pilot is bloody brilliant).That said, my biggest disappointment with KZV was that Willy Coppens, Belgium's leading ace and the war's leading Balloon Buster, was not one of the pregen characters. He seems like he would've been a shoo-in given the Germans, sick of his Balloon Buster antics, once tried to kill him by boobytrapping an observation Balloon with high explosives. Fortunately Coppens learned of the plot beforehand (it was the talk of the German Officers who were making a field day of it), his response?  He went out and shot down the balloon anyways!  Of course, the fact he had to have a leg amputated below the knee after being wounded on his final mission is a small detail... * The Nieuport 28 is actually also a 1918 fighter like the S.E.5a or D.VII, but is pretty outclassed by those planes and the French Spad 13 and was considered "surplus", frequently given to the Americans and Belgians instead of the French using it themselves. Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Feb 7, 2014 |
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Feb 7, 2014 01:25
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Thanks for the writeup. It's a real shame, the idea of generations of mechs and, well, a load of the rule ideas seem like great concepts. Shame about the execution. Could you share a bit more about the setting? The rpgnow description basically just says 'mecha'.
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Feb 7, 2014 01:39
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petrol blue posted:Thanks for the writeup. It's a real shame, the idea of generations of mechs and, well, a load of the rule ideas seem like great concepts. Shame about the execution. #ADX is a story about four factions that all want a better world, all have different ideas about how to achieve it, and none of them can even begin to think about working together. The game chronicles mankind's slow descent into destruction right as things start looking up thanks to the introduction of the orbital ring Halo One, which allows mankind to mostly switch from fuels to solar energy after surviving four grueling world wars. Just when it seems like a shining future has arrived and peace will finally gain permanence on earth and its colonies, things begin going bad again, unless the players do the impossible and fix a world full of very human people, with very human goals. The four factions (and the way the world progresses from Generation 4 onwards if things go their way, as the power of the Ascension Drive changes the face of the the world forever, leading up to the introduction of the titular Apotheosis Drive in Generation 7 where a Titan becomes a small god) are: -The One Earth Accord: Shortened to The Accord (Possibly because the writers realized that calling it the OEA led to potentially awful unintended implications about the generally pretty OK Real World Organization of American States), these are 'the guys in charge'. Roughly comparable to the Earth from Universal Century Gundam, they believe that the power of the Ascension Drive can make the world a better place, but only if tightly regulated and controlled. Their scenarios showcase how the Accord slowly tightens its grip on the world, becoming a fascist, nigh-unbeatable state, and ends with humankind united under its suffocating yoke reaching out to the stars to meet the alien beings awaiting them. Their Gen 4-6 path is really solid and interesting, but I personally think their endgame with the aliens is a bit weak because it sort of clashes against the 'human people opposing human people, with monsters and good men on each side' line that #ADX follows. It can still totally work, though. -The Stratos Commonwealth: A nation of clones inhabiting the conquered space colonies, the Commonwealth is what remains of the Stellar Corporate Collective, or StarCC, a group of allied PMCs that profited from the turmoil that followed the introduction of Halo One (which completely wrecked the economies of countries dependent on exporting fuels, leading to riots that StarCC pacified). StarCC was the first group to deploy Titans, the giant mechs that everybody's here for, and which the Accord and the other two factions soon reverse-engineered and adapted to. Defeated again and again, their PMC goals have been forgotten as only the clones that they used for human wave attacks remain now, united by their common origin. They've been driven to the brink of desperation, and are just looking for a home on Earth to call their own after racial violence forced them into exile. Their scenarios showcase their struggle and their belief in how a 'shock and awe' surprise attack that kills millions of people will cow the world and convince the leadership to allow them to settle down in a piece of land, the spectacular success of the attack and its spectacular failure at convincing anyone of anything except the fact that the clones need to die, and their attempts at engineering a virus that will kill any non-clone on Earth, allowing them to colonize the now depopulated world. The only problem is, after killing all the humans on earth, machines randomly start rising up against the people of the Commonwealth, savagely attacking and killing the clones as if a ghost in the machine were driving them. Only a few Titans are immune, and it's up to the pilots to find a way to pacify the spirit of the now-dead human race. While the Scenario 7 for the Commonwealth is middling (because now you're just kicking the rear end of machines and atoning, instead of having an incredible moral dilemma), its scenarios 4-6 are absolutely outstanding, and the Stratos 6 scenario may be my single favorite one in the book, because PCs have to weight the futures of two peoples as they decide whether to release the virus or not, and the absolute desperation and humanity of the clones is perfectly conveyed. A very skilled, very sensitive GM could use this path to draw some very thought-provoking analogies to the plight of the people of Israel in the real world and how the world was against them for a very long time (though of course nobody's saying the Israeli people are planning on killing everybody with biowarfare, just limited to the part where they successfully carved themselves a niche in the world through a rapid war blitz after a long diaspora). One of the neatest paths in the book, IMO. -The People of Oya: Super soldiers, in a nutshell. The Oya claim that the blood of kings flows through them and they are the result of an extremely long-lasting genotech project to bring out the absolute best mankind has to offer, and their Titans are the most out-there ones of the lot, boasting biomechs and singular pilot-Titan connections among their roster. They're a matriarchal and mystical society, and see themselves as the protectors and overseers of the world. Unlike the clones, they do have lands to call their own, scattered all over the world, which used to be barren places that were given life again thanks to their mysterious Hearthfire Drives, which power their Titans and were buried in the soil after World War IV. The Hearthfire Drives increase plant growth, cause the people living in the area to have more and more healthy babies, and generally do lots of mystical, magical things. They're the 'Protoss' faction of the book, favoring quality over quantity and possessing special magical tech. Their scenarios showcase their isolationist policies and their attempts at making sure peace flourishes in the world by acting as guardians, using the power of the Ascension Drive to keep the people of the world in line. The problem is that their isolationism and 'I know better than you, now sit there and do what's best' policy turns the entire world against them, meaning their dream of world peace fades away through the Generations as the rest of the world radicalizes and becomes more violent. The 4-6 scenarios of the Oya are easily the worst of the lot, in my opinion, because their premise is hackneyed, the result obvious (seriously guys, you thought people would like it if you told them to do a thing that's good for them or be shot by an unstoppable god-machine? REALLY?), and it generally makes the Oya come off as dumb people when they're supposed to be the brightest and most perceptive of the lot, cheapening them and making them look just plain wrong with no upside. It's particularly disappointing because from both a tech standpoint and a 'how interesting are they' standpoint, they're the best faction, and their scenarios just let them down hard. In spite of this, their endgame scenario is easily my favorite, where the Hearthfire Drives of the Oya awaken and become a god from the machine who takes their policies to the extreme and threatens to destroy mankind, unless a group of champions picked between all the factions complete its trials and prove that the human race deserves to live. Mostly because you get to literally punch the stupid policies of the Oya in the face and tell an uppity machine god that man will find his way by himself, thank you very much -The People's Collective: 'The Rest', more or less. The Collective is made up of a significant portion of the Accord's underclass, the disenfranchised, the revolutionaries, anarchists and punks. They're the average Joes who saw that the world was becoming a shithole under the boot of rear end in a top hat totalitarian bastards, clones and freaks of nature and decided to do something about it. Their Titans have a certain 'home-made' feel to them, because they're made out of whatever the Collective could scavenge and put together. The lack of mass-produced models is in their favor, however, since nobody knows what to expect from a Collective Titan and JESUS loving CHRIST IT JUST VOMITED ACID ON ME GET IT OFF GET IT OFF GET IT OFF. If you want to have a Titan that is basically a Warhammer Killa Kan, they're your boyz. Their 4-6 scenarios involve the discovery of the Ascension Drive, its mass-production and free distribution everywhere (and I mean everywhere, from Accord armstech to tibetan buddhist temples uninvolved with the outside world), and the dismantling of Halo One. If you see what the problem with their plan is, you get no prizes, because yes, everything goes to poo poo when random assholes gain access to unstoppable killer machines and start doing what they please because there is no government ready to punish them for treating others like dirt and no one to restrain them anymore. Society collapses, the world becomes a horrible hellhole, and by the end of it mankind's regressed to the middle ages, but with mecha. The endgame scenario is the PCs protecting a child genius who creates the Apotheosis Drive and trying to bring a bit of order to a world that is now truly, well and completely hosed beyond repair, preventing the petty warlords who control fractions of it from leaving the world they polluted, raped and killed to go do the same thing in the colonies and beyond. In spite (or perhaps because of) being the most obviously 'PC' faction, I dislike their scenarios the most, because they are the only ones where everything is totally hosed and there is absolutely nothing you can do to make things better. Civilization's over, everybody, better just kill ourselves because there's no point trying. You'll never fix the entire world one mech battle at a time, sorry. It's amazing that their scenarios manage to be so bleak, because as a starting premise, their endgame scenario would make for an excellent lighthearted heroic adventure. That's what happens when you force the players to play through the fall of mankind and its devolution into a maddened animal, I guess! I wish there was an even slightly happier route for the Collective. Their scenarios are the only ones I wouldn't want to play because they're too chilling, and it's completely demoralizing to know you've 'lost' before you even had a chance to sit down to play if you can't prevent them from distributing the Ascension Drives and dismantling Halo One. This is a very, very broad faction overview and I omitted some things to not extend it too much. If you've got any further questions, feel free to ask! Transient People fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Feb 7, 2014 |
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Feb 7, 2014 02:38
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I was in a game that blended Camelot Trigger's vehicle creation and KZV's competition system. It was fun, and I saved my boosts well. In the final interviews for PNN, the other players were bringing 5s and 6s to the table, and I got a Legendary+++ (11). As for KZV's troubles, I'd run it with "I will be the best!" a setting aspect, so that it still applies to every character. The bonus is everyone's trouble is freed, so you get a ragtag group of Drunkards, Liars and Conflicted Geneva Followers. Edit: Transient, do you have an email address I can contact you at? You don't have PMs. Golden Bee fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Feb 7, 2014 |
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Feb 7, 2014 02:40
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Yeah, it's agusvnk at gmail dot com. I'll be keeping an eye out for your message. 
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Feb 7, 2014 02:54
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Transient People posted:everything goes to poo poo when random assholes gain access to unstoppable killer machines and start doing what they please because there is no government ready to punish them for treating others like dirt and no one to restrain them anymore. That sounds oddly familiar. Sounds like a fun setup, but your description reads like it's assumed that PCs will pick a single side and stick to it, is that correct? Because I can see my usual group instantly deciding 'screw that, let's make our own faction with blackjack and hookers'.
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Feb 7, 2014 03:20
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Davin Valkri posted:Crimson Skies hack. Although would that be a modded KZV? Yeah, if I was to run Crimson Skies I'd probably do it similar to KZV, in fact, I don't think it'd need too much changing. Maybe something for rockets (Crimson Skies loves its gimmicky aircraft rockets, but that could just be descriptors). Overall you've got planes, you've got zeppelins, you've got a world full of adventure. Not just in North America either, you could have Indiana Jones style adventures across the far corners of the globe, or hot zones like war-torn Spain and China. EG: Running guns to the Chinese, dodging/tangling with Japanese and Manchuko patrols, shady meetings with the Nationalist Chinese at Club Obi-Wan in Shanghai, maybe things go south when the Chinese Communists get wind of things, try to "requisition" the shipment and press-gang the group as mercenary pilots, etc etc. But this is all just idle musing really. I kind of want to run KZV or something similar one day, but I've never really been able to tolerate the slow pace and overall feel of PbP.
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Feb 7, 2014 03:21
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petrol blue posted:Thanks for the writeup. It's a real shame, the idea of generations of mechs and, well, a load of the rule ideas seem like great concepts. Shame about the execution. Well, if that means you want a description of the four main factions, you're going to get what you want. The One Earth Accord You can probably figure out their deal by just looking at their name. They're the ruling body of the entire planet, and whether they're the one hope for a peaceful future or the people crushing humanity under their heels depends on who you ask. They know what's best for humanity, and they're going to do it. Their Titans are the most "standard" of the four factions, mainly because their pilots get extensive cybernetics to interface directly with them. Eventually these interfaces get good enough that they can just upload a bunch of combat experience into their pilots. As the Generations go higher the line between the pilot and their Titan is going to just get more and more blurred*. The Nation of Oya Project Oya began when a group of scientists in western Africa got tired of the constant cycle of warlords too much of the planet has been stuck in. They set out to make their own group of peacekeepers, strong enough to end wars and wise enough to not continue them. The strange part is, they actually did it. They brought peace to everywhere they could. Then they invented the Hearthfire Drive, stuck them in the first Titans and basically ended the war against the future Stratos Collective singlehandedly. Then they found out that the area around a buried Hearthfire Drive will become a veritable paradise. Today they just stay holed up in their little slices of heaven and stay so neutral that everyone wants to punch them just so they stop being a bunch of inscrutable quasimystic fucks. Their Titans are weird and biomechanical, all thanks to the Hearthfire Drive being weird and biomechanical. Think Evangelion minus the issues and Gnostic imagery, and they're only going to become more alive as time goes on*. The People's Collective You can figure out these guys by looking at their name too. They hate the One Earth Accord, they aren't that fond of anyone else, and they just want the common people to have a voice. Maybe they're a bunch of insane terrorists, maybe they're the only ones fighting for the common man. Who knows? Their Titans are almost entirely repurposed industrial equipment. Sure, it's a power loader with a bunch of armor strapped on, but that arc welder it's carrying can cut through your mech as well as a bulkhead. They're only going to get better at kitbashing stuff together, and if they get their hands on the right secret government projects they'll eventually be able to flat out make Titan parts from scrap mid-battle*. The Stratos Collective When oil became obsolete, a lot of the corporations didn't know what to do. One of them, StarCC, decided the best move going forward was to go to the asteroid belt, make a bunch of clones, put those clones in ships and conquer the Earth. The Oya and their Hearthfire Drives made sure that didn't happen, but that still left a bunch of clones in space with nowhere else to go. The Accord gave them homes on Earth (that used to be the homes of Collective members), but there was still a lot of tension over the war that just ended. Eventually they just... left. Flew back to the asteroid belt and made a base there. But even though they technically have a place to call their own, space is no place to live. They're desperate to have solid ground under their feet again, and they're willing to go to war to get some. Their Titans are nuts, for three reasons. One, they're really into individuality as a concept, since so many members of the Collective are the same biologically. Two, building in zero Gs lets them build some insane stuff. Three, resource limitations mean that each Titan needs to be the best it can be. They won't have enough mining operations set up to go really nuts until the later generations, but when they do...* *Note: None of the stuff about what the factions will look like in the later generations is set in stone. The official stance is that after Gen 4 (the default starting generation, when things start going from relatively realistic mechs to crazy gonzo stuff) the PCs will have shaken things up enough that all they can offer is suggestions for the future. And it turns out TP wrote a big effortpost while I was writing up my big effortpost, but hell if I'm going to write all this and not post it.
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Feb 7, 2014 03:21
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petrol blue posted:That sounds oddly familiar. The game definitely encourages making your own faction that's your thing, yeah. The sample scenario also provides justification for players of multiple factions to work together, so it's possible to go that direction too.
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Feb 7, 2014 03:22
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petrol blue posted:That sounds oddly familiar. No, the example group even makes its own 'faction' up while generating characters, as they're freelancers, and three small factions (when I say small, I mean one of them is literaly one girl piloting a Titan by herself. The other ones are basically Hannibal Chau's black marketeers from Pacific Rim by another name, and the last is a faction of religious people that has spiritual power the world over but not that much political clout) also come with the package of the Big Four. You can take a smaller faction just fine, but you'll have to make up your own story for how you get access to the Ascension Drive come Gen 4 and how this irrevocably changes the world, or deal with another faction discovering it from the outside. And like TurninTrix says, it's easy to make players from multiple factions work together. Hell, the Oya Scenario 7 all but requires a motley crew, even!
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Feb 7, 2014 03:33
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loving incredible. Thank you.
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Feb 7, 2014 03:59
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Transient People, This has gone on long enough. Your high-content posts and knowledgeable replies paired with your newbie persona have finally gone too far. For your crimes against this thread, this forum, and the world, I hereby sentence you to a new avatar. May whatever deific force you hold most dear take pity upon you. Congratulations. With Love/Hate, ~ Blasphemeral
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Feb 8, 2014 15:27
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So my players have decided to take down the Shadowguild, a thievery/assassiny/shenaniganery sort of organization. Now, since this requires more than knocking down the door and bashing people over the head, they're starting with a humiliation/smear campaign to discredit them, and plan to use contacts on the inside and so forth. This is an awesome idea, but I'm not completely sure how to model it. It seems to me that using the Bronze Rule and modeling the Shadowguild as a character would work fine, and the various bits of the various campaigns would do all the appropriate stress/consquences/advantages type of thing. But how do I set up rolls for it? I don't want only one roll per action, both because I don't want it to be ineffectual or overly effectual, and because I don't want one player to roll once. I've considered toting up the success shifts for every roll within the action they're attempting and...doing something with them, but I'm not sure what. I could give the Guild character a massive number of stress and consequences boxes and just straight add them, but I'm sure there must be a better way. (Also, "attacks" back should be more interesting than "send dudes to kill them," since it should include bribery and sabotage and so forth, and I'm not sure how to exactly model that and those rolls.) The other thing is they're running into social conflict quite a bit, but if it's the three of them arguing with one other person the action economy goes out the window. Should each exchange be fully reciprocal in a social conflict? E.g., one of them "attacks" him, therefore he gets a defense action and an attack action? Or is there a better solution?
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Feb 8, 2014 17:15
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Daetrin posted:So my players have decided to take down the Shadowguild, a thievery/assassiny/shenaniganery sort of organization. Now, since this requires more than knocking down the door and bashing people over the head, they're starting with a humiliation/smear campaign to discredit them, and plan to use contacts on the inside and so forth. This is an awesome idea, but I'm not completely sure how to model it. The System Toolkit has a section about long-term stuff that might help here: essentially, the players come up with a plan, you ask for rolls at appropriate steps, then you zoom in on a scene based on the results of those rolls. You could use the same principle for plans that the Shadowguild initiates. For instance, if the Shadowguild decides to sabotage one of the PCs' projects, you roll its Burglary vs the PCs' Notice/Crafts (or whatever would be appropriate). If the Shadowguild wins, you start a scene with the project having suffered a setback, and let the PCs use their skills to minimise the damage and track down the saboteur. If the PCs win, they might catch the saboteur in the act, in which case the scene might be interrogating them, convincing them to become a double agent, or chasing them back to their hideout. quote:The other thing is they're running into social conflict quite a bit, but if it's the three of them arguing with one other person the action economy goes out the window. Should each exchange be fully reciprocal in a social conflict? E.g., one of them "attacks" him, therefore he gets a defense action and an attack action? Or is there a better solution? Not sure about this one. The usual advice from the book is just "make their peak skill two higher than the PCs' cap", but I think players might start complaining if every random guy they come across is way better than them. That said, if you're running a full-on conflict for every random guy, you might be putting too much focus on conflicts. Are the PCs actually trying to inflict serious harm in all these situations, or are they just trying to achieve a specific objective? If it's the latter, you might be better off running these scenes as challenges or contests, which would remove a lot of the problems of many-on-one situations; if the opponent's really unimportant, a single overcome roll could be appropriate. Of course, backing the opponent up with some other characters, even just mooks using teamwork to boost the relevant skills, might also help to make it more challenging.
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Feb 8, 2014 18:23
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Zandar posted:The System Toolkit has a section about long-term stuff that might help here quote:Not sure about this one. The usual advice from the book is just "make their peak skill two higher than the PCs' cap", but I think players might start complaining if every random guy they come across is way better than them. That said, if you're running a full-on conflict for every random guy, you might be putting too much focus on conflicts. Are the PCs actually trying to inflict serious harm in all these situations, or are they just trying to achieve a specific objective? If it's the latter, you might be better off running these scenes as challenges or contests, which would remove a lot of the problems of many-on-one situations; if the opponent's really unimportant, a single overcome roll could be appropriate. Of course, backing the opponent up with some other characters, even just mooks using teamwork to boost the relevant skills, might also help to make it more challenging. Actually it's been minibosses with minions...that the players have wanted to negotiate with instead of fight (because they've ended up with an actual negotiating position, such as, 'poo poo's on fire, yo. And we have a fire extinguisher"). They just like the idea of social conflict it seems.
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Feb 8, 2014 19:06
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Blasphemeral posted:Transient People, This was not what I expected to wake up to. It's ten times better! Thanks a lot, Blasphemeral! Daetrin posted:I guess I should go read the system toolkit. I suspect The Plan will be interspersed with other stuff because like good little PC's they've managed to get in ten kinds of trouble already from different sources. One thing to remember is that just like you can leave someone Tied Up Into Knots with ropes in a physical conflict, you can do the same with social conflicts. If the miniboss starts asking the hard-hitting questions that have no easy answers or makes offers the players would be hard-pressed to refuse, it's not a bad idea to frame it as Create An Advantage and force the players to make Overcome rolls to not end up focusing on just that problem without a solution and missing out on the rest of the conversation. CaA can help even a single-action solo boss hang with multiple PCs by reducing the action advantage a bunch, though it won't just fix everything by itself. A miniboss is probably fine if he has half the party's actions plus one when going solo, and comparable skills (so in this case, two actions, rounding down). This ensures he won't get swamped and be reasonably tough to convince without going overboard.
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Feb 8, 2014 21:47
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The stunt list on the Evil Hat wiki is great. Which of these do you guys think is better?quote:Feel the Burn. You can push through incredible pain in order to reach your goal. You gain an additional mild consequence slot. This slot can only be used for physical harm.
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Feb 14, 2014 13:41
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The middle one seems vastly more powerful than the others - the first and third look fine to me (I've used the third as a racial stunt in my scifi game), but the second looks excessive.
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Feb 14, 2014 13:53
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I like how "Never Broken" is completely broken. An extra mild consequence is pretty much a bog-standard stunt from the book, but being able to take an 8-stress hit that clears after a scene?  e: in fact, the mental one is underpowered since it has a prerequisite it doesn't need. Evil Mastermind fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 13:57
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It's from the Fate System Toolkit, tied to one of the sample magic systems with a lot of other ridiculous stunts like this. I'm... not sure why they threw it in this page without even checking if it meshes with the other stunts. In contrast, the converted SOTC stunts there are kinda boring but I guess that's just a product of its time.
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Feb 14, 2014 13:59
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There weren't any stunt creation guidelines in SotC beyond "eyeball it". Strange Tales of the Century has updated versions of a lot of them.
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Feb 14, 2014 14:05
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TurninTrix posted:It's from the Fate System Toolkit, tied to one of the sample magic systems with a lot of ridiculous stunts like this. I'm... not sure why they threw it in without even checking if it meshes with the other stunts in the wiki page. Yep, this. It turns out there are a bunch of Toolkit stunts listed there that don't mention this, and I thought some of them were pretty cool too. 
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Feb 14, 2014 14:06
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Evil Mastermind posted:I like how "Never Broken" is completely broken. TurninTrix posted:In contrast, the converted SOTC stunts there are kinda boring but I guess that's just a product of its time. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 14:08
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MadScientistWorking posted:I've used something worst than that before. This doesn't mean it's not that broken, it means the stunts you write are terrible. We know exactly how broken it is because disconnected from its magic system it is exactly four times more powerful than a stunt is supposed to be.
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Feb 14, 2014 15:04
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"The Package" is the best stunt I've used - one of the players owned a suitcase nuke. Campaign ended in a nuclear fireball, and it was awesome. If you're going to go with something broken, at least make it fun.
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Feb 14, 2014 15:15
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Ettin posted:This doesn't mean it's not that broken, it means the stunts you write are terrible. We know exactly how broken it is because disconnected from its magic system it is exactly four times more powerful than a stunt is supposed to be. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 18:16
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MadScientistWorking posted:No its not broken and the advice that tends to given even in the core book often says in the Toolkit that you can ignore it. It's not broken in the context of its magic system (which is that everyone gets some stunts like it), but it's definitely way more powerful than stunts were generally intended to be.
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Feb 14, 2014 18:22
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Zandar posted:but it's definitely way more powerful than stunts were generally intended to be. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 18:57
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MadScientistWorking posted:You see I'd actually believe this if there was any indication that they ever followed any inherent logic to them throughout the multiple games they made. Even in the Toolkit outside of the magic system there are stunts far more powerful than the general guidelines should indicate. Examples? Because usually the internal logic is reallllllllly obvious. Like how Smoke Bomb makes perfect sense once you actually realize how it works.
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Feb 15, 2014 00:07
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I agree, there's very little evidence of the standard of a stunt being "+2 or fluff" if you just focus on a couple of specific instances out of context. A -8 isn't broken at all, so long as you never look at it next to another stunt ever. I mean what's the point in those whole chapters on balancing stunts and magic systems when they say you can ignore them anyway? Sheesh.
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Feb 15, 2014 00:09
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MadScientistWorking posted:You see I'd actually believe this if there was any indication that they ever followed any inherent logic to them throughout the multiple games they made. Fate Core posted:Adding a Bonus to an Action hmmm Ettin fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Feb 15, 2014 |
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Feb 15, 2014 00:21
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Vanilla stunts are so terrible. +Numbers... yay? All of mine tend to be like Rob Donoghue posted:What is Lovely Cannot Stay
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Feb 15, 2014 02:27
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| # ? May 17, 2024 23:40 |
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I made a Pocketmod FAE microbook thing that's intended to be both reference and character sheet, for those who are into that kind of thing.
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Feb 15, 2014 02:48
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