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kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

Ronwayne posted:

Man. If you're playing a RT and the Inquisition has absolutely zero interest or suspicion of your activities, you're probably not using that Warrant right.

If your playing RT and the only reason the Inquisition isnt hunting you down is because you've got something over them, have a heretical inquisitor your feeding stuff to or having personally owned an Inquisitor your probably doing it wrong.

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Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
So, got stars of inequity, and am dicking around with making a human Voidfarer system. I elected to just make the planets, and then "colonized" the ones that would up habitable. I was ready to fudge the rolls, but got reasonably lucky: One decent life-supporting world shock full of minerals that I decided was originally colonized, one full of frozen water with pure atmosphere, that could get water for another that was without life or water, and yet another one with liquid water and a decent atmosphere. I think the rules about minerals and such are really hard to understand, and I just wanted to air my notes here, to see if you think I did it right (fudged rolls and picked territories notwithstanding, I know that is GM fiat):

quote:

Porvenir I
Large, G: Terran Standard, 1 lesser moon (radioactive minerals, sustainable). Atmosphere: Moderate, Pure. Climate: Temperate. Limited Ecosystem. 1 Pangaea continent.
5 territories: wasteland: expansive, wasteland:unusual location, extreme cold, desolate, wasteland: unusual location, swamp:unusual species, plains.notable species.
5 resources: sustainable, major, significant, significant, significant.
Additional: Archeotech Cache, Minerals: Industrial Metals, limited.
Notable Species: Hidden Death.
(lack landmarks)

Porvenir II
Small. G: Low. 1 lesser moon (N/A). Atmosfære: Moderate, Pure. Climate:Cold World. Climate: Trapped Water. 2 continents, severed by frozen seas. 1 territory: frozen Wastelands, with extreme temperature trait. 1 Resource: (Radioactive minerals, sustainable)
(no landmarks)

Porvenir III
Small. G: Normal. 1 lesser moon (sustainable, radioactive minerals). Atmosfære: Moderate, Tainted. Climate: Hot World, Liquid Water. 3 continents, severed the Cleaving Sea. 1 territory: Tropisk Sump: Expansive. 3 resources: minimal, minimal, minimal.
Notable Species: None.
(lack landmarks)

Porvenir IV
Large. G: High. Atmosfære: Moderate, Toxic. Climate: Cold World, Inhospitable. 1 pangaea kontinent:
4 territories: wasteland, wasteland, plains: Fertile, wasteland.
2 resources: limited, limited. Add, resources: Yu’Vath ruins.
(lack landmarks)

Porvenir V
Gas Giant. G: Strong. Lesser Moon (Industrial Metal, Limited).

E: Couple of untranslated words :downs: stor = large, lille = small, Atmosfære = Atmosphere.

Tias fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Feb 3, 2014

Waci
May 30, 2011

A boy and his dog.
More than a couple. Kontinent, tropisk, med. English plurals tend to end with s rather than r. All rather obvious, but you included a translation for atmosfære so why not mention the rest. :v: More seriously, looks all right as far as I can tell.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
Should be mostly fixed, now.

It seems I also need to roll a percentile for the abundance or minerals or something? How does that work?

Asehujiko
Apr 6, 2011

Tias posted:

Should be mostly fixed, now.

It seems I also need to roll a percentile for the abundance or minerals or something? How does that work?
1d100 for most resources unless they're a special case or they get a bonus from something.

Rockopolis
Dec 21, 2012

I MAKE FUN OF QUEER STORYGAMES BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO WITH MY LIFE THAN MAKE OTHER PEOPLE CRY

I can't understand these kinds of games, and not getting it bugs me almost as much as me being weird
So, I created an Astropath Transcendent (Transubstantiatial Initiate) for Rogue Trader, and I was wondering if there's powers that are really good, and powers that should be avoided.
I'm still trying to read up on Astropath ship actions, as that's where I'm guessing I should focus.

I have Telepathy, and eventually 3 other Disciplines.
I want Divination, because the first thing that really jumped out at me about this game and role is "Whoa, I'm an actual Psychic who can no poo poo predict the future. How am I going to apply actual precognition to making bank or doing good deeds?" and to that end, I've got Command & Commerce & SL (Bureaucracy). Are there any cool tricks for using psychic powers to keep the Spice flowing?
What other psychic techniques are good for that kind of analyst role?

Other than Divination, what other disciplines are worth buying? And what is the best one in which to achieve mastery?

Edit
I need to take Divination and Voidfrost so I can say "Tonight's forecast; a freeze!"

Rockopolis fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Feb 4, 2014

UncleSickey
Jan 2, 2014
Just was curious if anyone could come up with some home brewed rules for the use of Warp Dust. I'm only asking as it would be something that would come into context in my Black Crusade campaign; being my players are all referencing it every so often.

Seems the group wants to have something a bit more fun and not grimdark. Here's the link to the warp dust reference (as like nobody in this thread hasn't seen it yet).

Many thanks in advance.

http://youtu.be/xfJUi4cB4oc

chin up everything sucks
Jan 29, 2012

Read the various Felix and Gotrek books involving Skaven, since the Grey Seer is constantly sniffing Warp Dust. Grants magical power, overdose can kill, causes concentration problems, visions of destruction, and massive megalomania. MASSIVE megalomania.

Diaghilev
Feb 19, 2005


The final argument of kings and common men.

FireSight posted:

Read the various Felix and Gotrek books involving Skaven, since the Grey Seer is constantly sniffing Warp Dust. Grants magical power, overdose can kill, causes concentration problems, visions of destruction, and massive megalomania. MASSIVE megalomania.

So, cartoon-radioactive cocaine?

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
One might argue that it afflicts Skaven differently, as they were made with it and share an affinity with it. Thanquol seems to get -really- high and delight in the visions of bloodshed and genocide bubbling through his head, and even he sometimes nearly loses control of the power. To a regular joe, such an ordeal would definitely cause pants-making GBS threads terror, and likely also devolution into a mindless chaos spawn.

chin up everything sucks
Jan 29, 2012

You did have people smoking wyrdroot with warpstone mixed in, in the first book. The warpstone dust is just a refined form meant for inhaling. I'd say warpstone is going to act like cocaine, LSD, and spook mixed into one.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Asehujiko posted:

1d100 for most resources unless they're a special case or they get a bonus from something.

Is this only for regular resources? Where and how does the "Minimal, Sustainable, Major" scale come into play?

Asehujiko
Apr 6, 2011

Tias posted:

Is this only for regular resources? Where and how does the "Minimal, Sustainable, Major" scale come into play?
Based on how well you roll and it gives you something to say to your players that isn't "you have exactly x of resource y in here".

quote:

The extent of a given Resource, referred to as its Abundance, is generated on by rolling 1d100. If a Resource has a higher Abundance, it is more plentiful. Abundance can be consumed by ventures to mine the Resource, effectively converting it into Achievement Points or Profit Factor for the Rogue Trader. Consult Table 1–19: Resource Abundance for more details regarding what levels of Abundance mean narratively (see page 27).

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
Thanks, it's right there on the page. Sorry :doh:

E: Okay, let me see if I get this. I roll for number of resources, get 4. Do I then roll on "additional resources" to see what type they each are? Or do I just assume they're four non-specific resources, assign each a d100 value, and then roll for what additional resources there are?

E E: No! I roll for what kind of MINERAL resources they are, before then seeing if there are additional resources? Right?

Tias fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Feb 4, 2014

Asehujiko
Apr 6, 2011
Unless you're on a special case like a lesser moon, you roll your 1d5+X for mineral resources, then the 1d5+X additional resources, roll 1d10 to see what the latter results in, then a 1d10 for everything but archeotech to determine the type and 1d100 for the quantity.

Example:
1d5 minerals -> 2
mineral 1d10 -> 5 ornamental -> 1d100
mineral 1d10 -> 4 industrial -> 1d100
1d5-2 other stuff -> 3
resource 1d10 -> 3 mineral -> 1d10 -> 2 industrial -> 1d100
resource 1d10 -> 10 xenos ruins -> 8 yu'vath ruins -> 1d100
resource 1d10 -> 1 archeotech -> 1d5+1 -> 2 treasures -> 1d100
the last bit sends you to the treasure generator, automatically getting an "archeotech" result on the first roll. If your players loot one of the treasures, the quantity gets reduced by 2 or 10(if they looted a chunk of starship) so say you got an 61 on the abundance roll, your players find both treasures and neither of them is a ship component then the new quantity is 57 as if a colony has been harvesting 4 points from it.

Funktastic Dog
Nov 8, 2011

by Ralp
Whats a good amount of XP I should be handing out my Deathwatch guys if I want them to level up fairly quickly?

chin up everything sucks
Jan 29, 2012

All of it

Funktastic Dog
Nov 8, 2011

by Ralp
Well, I'm thinking like 1000 each time and also making it so it only takes 2000 xp to get to another rank. I.E Where it was 13000-17000 to get to rank 2, and 21000 to rank 3, it's now 13000-15000 to rank 2, 1500-17000, to rank 3.

I want my guys to level quickly, because the other way, it would take 74 game sessions to get to rank 8, and now it only takes 17 sessions to get to max rank, which is way more reasonable, I think.

Karandras
Apr 27, 2006

Changing how much XP they need to get to certain ranks won't help much, it'll just mean they have weird characters with a small number of expensive traits.

What I do is ~500xp a session (You could make this 1k if you wanted) but at the end of each mission I make a bundle Deed that gives two or three things per person that's relevant to what they did in the mission and I charge them a cheap rate (1k usually) but make it include ~3k worth of stuff. This means you can throw together the less valuable traits no one would ever spend XP on (Things like Intimidating Visage or whatever the scary face one is, plus Peer or Hatred type things) and make them feel like they're getting a great deal, so they can spend their XP on the more efficient choices. That way they get a fair bit of power and have cool thematic traits that aren't so generally useful but aslo don't feel like they're wasting XP when they buy a trait for roleplaying purposes.

For example, last mission went through the webway to a section of a destroyed Craftworld that was trapped at the heart of an Imperial planet. Chaos cultists had been using the Avatar's ritual chamber as the focus to try and summon a daemon with some essence of Khaine in it. On the way there they were each offered a gift by a Harlequin, some of them took it and some didn't. That's why some people got Paranoia and some get to keep that item as Signature Wargear. Also the people that took permanent crit damage like -half toughness and fellowship from brutal face and chest crits got Disturbing Voice.


quote:

For 1000xp each, you can each gain access to your God-Slayer deed which'll give you each slightly different perks. It also includes adding your Eldar gear to your permanent wargear, if you so choose, or you can hand it in and take Paranoia.

Everyone gets +1 wound.
Carack Nova: Battle Rage + Toe to Toe
Arias: Warp Sense + Disturbing Voice + Paranoia
Cossius: Scourge of Heretics
Ventius: Call to Vengeance + Disturbing Voice + Paranoia
Assegai: Stalwart Defence

Karandras fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Feb 5, 2014

Funktastic Dog
Nov 8, 2011

by Ralp
That's a good idea actually, I'll probably do that if they have specific things happen to all of them.

How do you think giving them 2000 xp each time with the same levels? That way they get a shitton of buffs to spend it on, and can feel like badasses. That's my thinking at least.

They just came from a game of Only War, so I want them to feel crazy powerful.

Also, clarification, for sustained vs unsustained, do you constantly have to do the sustained one to keep it in effect?

Funktastic Dog fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Feb 5, 2014

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010

Against All Tyrants

Ultra Carp
I just found out about this and I hadn't seen anyone mention it, so I thought I may as well bring it up here. Apparently, there's a new supplement for Only War that was announced a while ago that's supposed to include more advanced specialties for Tech Priests, Ogryns, Ratlings, and Priests. Of course, the most exciting information is in this paragraph-

quote:

Of course, what Only War supplement would be complete without new Advanced Specialities? From the Architectus Magna, to the Praecentor of Penance, to the Ogryn Bone ‘ead, this book offers Players thirteen new directions to take their Enginseer, Ogryn, Ratling, and Priest characters. Of course, these Advanced Specialities are accompanied by an enormous spread of new Talents, Comrades, Orders, and wargear including advanced Servitor Directives, Ogryn and Ratling Comrades, and a fleet of new tanks and vehicles.

I feel bad for my group's GM, because every future session is going to be All Ogryns, All The Time. :allears:

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.


Grimey Drawer
Ratling Sniper with an Ogryn comrade to use as a variable-height firing platform.

frajaq
Jan 30, 2009

#acolyte GM of 2014


Acebuckeye13 posted:

I just found out about this and I hadn't seen anyone mention it, so I thought I may as well bring it up here. Apparently, there's a new supplement for Only War that was announced a while ago that's supposed to include more advanced specialties for Tech Priests, Ogryns, Ratlings, and Priests. Of course, the most exciting information is in this paragraph-


I feel bad for my group's GM, because every future session is going to be All Ogryns, All The Time. :allears:

I'm more excited for the new regiments that will come. Crimson Guard :allears:

Gaghskull
Dec 25, 2010

Bearforce1

Boys! Boys! Boys!
My group is either the weirdest, or the greatest. We have in order:

Lord Starmaster Commodore Fortinius Argothion, a rogue trader who is as cowardly as he is greedy.
Xanthum Gun, a somewhat dim Arch-Milliant who is really, really good at shooting things with bolters.
Seneschal Blond. Aimes Blond.
Kennoch Janthine, missionary who listened very carefully to the bits of the Imperial Creed that involve burning things.
Partha Dial-Up, an explorator whose one quest is to find new shiny bits to replace her fleshy body with.
And Bill Murray. Bill Murray is a Navigator.

In the 12 or so sessions I've run the group has displayed a startling amount of terrible luck that is then followed by amazing rolls combined with stupidity. The very first space combat they had resulted in both their cruiser, and the enemy doing absolutely no damage to each other. It was only because of the asteroids slamming into the enemy slightly more often than their ship that they managed to win the fight. They have used chimeras (that they stole from a munitorium depot) to run over Rak'gol in the style of Aliens.

The Arch-militant has a very loose definition of the word "puppy" and is attempting to breed squigs in one of the forward cargo bays while keeping it a secret from the rest of the group. He also is in power armor and throws the navigator like a mutant bomb so that his eye won't kill the group when he unveils it.

They have also accidentally discovered a tomb world and brought what they thought was a dead Necron wraith on board as a trophy only for it to come back to life in the explorator's quarters before escaping below decks where it served as a strange and very deadly boogie-man that kept popping up and killing crewmen every so often. The missionary's description of the plan used to get the wraith off the cruiser was "box, stick, bait." The box was a cargo bay that they sealed off, the stick was the party who would shut the doors, and the bait was the necron technology that they ran away with before the tomb world reawakened. It ended with the rogue trader being dragged out of the cargo bay so he didn't die of blood loss while the rest of the players vented the wraith and the necron tech they had taken into space just to get rid of the drat thing.

They are also hated by every single person they have met in the expanse. The Ministorum hates them as they impressed a ship full of pilgrims who had engine trouble so they could replace crew losses. The Munitorium hates them because of their raid on a munitorium depot (it had been abandoned for years, but rules are rules). Footfall refuses to let them dock as the last time they were there the players decided to open fire on their nemesis's ship while it was still docked. They managed to piss off the Kasbilica Mission when they utterly flubbed a mission they undertook for the organization. They tried to make it up to them, but wound up selling them out to the Inquisition. This didn't work very well for them as the problem is that the Rogue trader was selling Inquisition property to the mission. The only group who is still willing to work with the players are the Mechanicus only because they haven't managed to find a way to infuriate them yet.

Is this how all rogue trader groups go?

Clanpot Shake
Aug 10, 2006
shake shake!

Sounds awesome. You've got some good players it sounds like.

Have the Necron in the hold be responsible for a string of thefts of seemingly useless technological bits. If they don't investigate it they get a nasty surprise in the form of a Necron incursion from the wraith's jury rigged Necron teleporter made out of scraps and malice.

If they piss of the rest of humanity, they can always go work for the Tau or something.

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe
I mean they haven't taken over any planets so they're only about 80% on target.

SpiritOfLenin
Apr 29, 2013

be happy :3


Our group in RT is in our next session going to go against some sort of big rear end Khorne daemon, that's gonna hurt. And all because a stupid Inquisitor lost his sword... that had that bloody daemon in it.

Oh well, at least we made peace between Chorda and Winterscale, even if we had to burn three profit factor on bribes. Better profit factor than either Chorda or Winterscale, even if the Missionary almost blew the negotiations through the magic of being an rear end in a top hat. Turns out that saying to a Rogue Trader that dabbling in Xenotech is stupid kinda makes them angry, especially since that was an absolutely amazing bout of hypocricy considering our group composition where technically speaking the Missionary is the only one who is a normal human.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
So our tabletop Rogue Trader game kicked off today. I'm Captain Viktar Holostenko, ready to win back glory and thrones to the family name!

What happened:

- Some weird rear end frontier man/woman (we couldn't agree) sleazed his/her way onto my ship and has boned the Seneschal for nearly four weeks straight.
- The 'dragon ore' I bought, a key component in titan-grade construction, was a lot less pure than the poo poo they showed us planetside.
- Chasing a lost ship (Endeavour), had my jump into an asteroid field and a neutron star bursting radiation like cray-cray, and three pirate raiders were waiting there to ruin my poo poo.

It's my first day, but holy poo poo it's hard being a RT.

TheArmorOfContempt
Nov 29, 2012

Did I ever tell you my favorite color was blue?
Can't Wraiths pass through walls and solid objects? Seems like trapping it in a box would fail...

Rockopolis
Dec 21, 2012

I MAKE FUN OF QUEER STORYGAMES BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO WITH MY LIFE THAN MAKE OTHER PEOPLE CRY

I can't understand these kinds of games, and not getting it bugs me almost as much as me being weird
Wow, that supplement sounds cool. Come on, Ogryn Commissar...
An update to Commissar abilities would be nice.



I've been reading through the fluff; it seems like only Astropaths need/get the audience with the big E? Everyone else just has to graduate from a Scholastica Psykana?
I'm trying to figure out how viable an X-Men style game of Rogue Trader would be. Like, a very Psyker focused game, where you have to gather and process the psyker tithe, and fix problems across the expanse, and make enough money to keep everything running/keep enough influence to avoid being purged.
Enemies would probably include rogue psykers, Chaos cults, and Puritan Inquisitors sending purple-armored servitors after the team.

I also really like the Universe-Class Transport. Yeah, I know, it's not optimized for shooting things, but I just like that it's practically a campaign setting on its own; it's basically a full city with half a million people, flying through space, and big enough to carry factories and spaceports and such.

Maybe combine the two, and use psychic powers to compensate for the weaknesses of the ship, or pick up a tiny raider for escort.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
My favorite compensation is the fact that a powerful enough telekine astropath can catch and stop opposing weapons fire in mid-flight. Needs a helluva lot of successes, but it's in there :black101:

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.


Grimey Drawer
There are enough psykers in the Expanse (hell, at Footfall) and a small enough Navy presence that you could probably handwave Rogue Black Ships into existence. Inquisitor takes some people who know a bit more about psykers and the warp than they're supposed to, gives them a warrant of trade and a ship and tells them that they must deliver X un-tainted psykers to be picked up every Y years, and that if any serious psyker poo poo goes down in the expanse it's their responsibility to be first in, last out.

Or they can be shot here and now. Their choice.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
So, next session starts with my being ambushed by three other ships. What do I need to know about ship combat?

SpiritOfLenin
Apr 29, 2013

be happy :3


Tias posted:

So, next session starts with my being ambushed by three other ships. What do I need to know about ship combat?

You better have the ship that is bigger and more heavily armed.

But barring that, your best perception guy should try to scan a bit about what the enemy ships are, and then plan your target priority accordingly. It is usually a good idea to focus the ship with the biggest guns first so you don't get hosed over by it - also try to keep your front aimed at them, preferably at their rear. Rear armour is usually weaker than front so shooting there hurts more, and getting shot there hurts more as well. Space ships are lumbering behemots most of the time, so you should take advantage of that.

Also remember to contact the enemy ships and insult their captains. This is the most important step and if you fail to do this you have failed as a Rogue Trader and you might as well just let them shoot your ship to bits.

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets

SpiritOfLenin posted:

You better have the ship that is bigger and more heavily armed.

Or is built for boarding actions, giving you so many bonuses you can take over ships in a single round.

(Omnissiahs Shield, I am looking at you and the giant fleet you built)

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
I have boarding torpedoes and extremely high speed, but lovely armour.

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.


Grimey Drawer
You can always run. A disengage only requires you being 8VU away from enemy ships, or you can just fly out and turn it into a chase thing.

Unless of course you really need to be there, in which case try and keep in their rear arc and H&R their guns so you can whittle them down in peace.

Rockopolis
Dec 21, 2012

I MAKE FUN OF QUEER STORYGAMES BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO WITH MY LIFE THAN MAKE OTHER PEOPLE CRY

I can't understand these kinds of games, and not getting it bugs me almost as much as me being weird
So, how would the mechannics of picking up the psyker tithes work?
It'd be, what, an endeavour? Profit Factor gains are from being paid by or getting influence with the Inquisition or the Adeptus Telepathica? Or just adding more psyker students/crew?
Heh, if your profit factor is too low it represents you losing patronage and getting a game over, like XCOM.

Do you trade your tithe to the Adeptus Telepathica for freshly sanctioned Psykers? Or are you supposed to be training them yourself?
I know sanctioning is not a fast process, I think the book suggested five years, so you end up with a bunch of psykers in training running around your ship, and can only replace losses every time a class graduates.

And, probably most important, how do you represent having lots of psykers in the crew? Straight bonuses to the psychic players in ship combat, like an Astropath player having a full Choir?
Bonus to boarding actions when you have sanctioned psykers running around with your armsmen?
It does seem like there's going to be a pretty sharp curve between useless and hilariously broken.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

So, I've been pondering running Rogue Trader again, someday, but I had a question. I've always had a hard time handling missions because the whole achievement thing is woefully arbitrary and underdeveloped. I'd prefer to drop it entirely, but at the same time so much of shipbuilding is built around getting bonus points for X kind of objective. How do all of you handle the silly victory point system?

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Werix
Sep 13, 2012

#acolyte GM of 2013

Night10194 posted:

So, I've been pondering running Rogue Trader again, someday, but I had a question. I've always had a hard time handling missions because the whole achievement thing is woefully arbitrary and underdeveloped. I'd prefer to drop it entirely, but at the same time so much of shipbuilding is built around getting bonus points for X kind of objective. How do all of you handle the silly victory point system?

The few times I ran rouge trader I just dumped that crap, it is a stupid system, the crew is done with a job when they finish it, not when they reach a number.

For ship components that only add to specific victory points, I would just let the players have those components at no cost of space or power for fluff reasons, like the trophy room.

If the component did other stuff plus add to victory points, they would cost the usual, though you could lower the space or power to make up for it I suppose.

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