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My group has been playing 40kRP games for the past five years and we've never once used any of that dumb fiddly poo poo like endeavors and the deathwatch mission parameters.
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Feb 7, 2014 19:33
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Night10194 posted:So, I've been pondering running Rogue Trader again, someday, but I had a question. I've always had a hard time handling missions because the whole achievement thing is woefully arbitrary and underdeveloped. I'd prefer to drop it entirely, but at the same time so much of shipbuilding is built around getting bonus points for X kind of objective. How do all of you handle the silly victory point system?
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Feb 7, 2014 20:40
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The Endeavours system looks like it works better in reverse than it does being used normally, similar to the character creation system. You go off on your adventure, tally up your achievement points, and then figure out how much PF you made/lost, based on the achievement point thresholds you passed, rather than declaring something lesser/greater/grand beforehand. Of course, this doesn't quite take into account it being possible to bust your rear end working, accomplish your tasks, and still get squat, but PF is abstracted across your entire holdings, and anyway this is Rogue Trader, not
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Feb 7, 2014 21:45
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Would it be worthwhile for a 40k noob to dig into the lore via the various novels first? Or would it better serve me to just jump straight the gently caress in and order plastic menz?
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Feb 8, 2014 00:56
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gently caress the overpriced plastic men, just read anything Dan Abnett.
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Feb 8, 2014 00:59
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The lore has nothing to do with the table-top, it should only really have anything to do with the RPGs if people think that it should. The novel lore drifts between writers and series anyway.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:02
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That's a bit disappointing but from my own 7 seconds of Google Machine research, pretty much standard. I may try to find somewhere nearby and spectate some games.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:05
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Things actually drift more the other way. Big table-top events and rebalancing of the game can lead to much bigger changes in the wider canon than anything that turns up in a novel can change the wider game. Apart from specific game-breaking characters that occasionally show up and get stat lines.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:09
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Eh, it goes both ways. The poo poo that more popular authors write tends to get rules in the next edition.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:14
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I'm honestly going to spruce up my neckbeard (probably serious), and participate in some games. I know myself enough that reading the lore initially will disappoint me.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:20
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Speaking of which, what is responsible for this stupid "Necrons have emotions and personalities now" Bullshit? Is that something that came up in the tabletop codex, or originated at the fluff/novel level and bled over?
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Feb 8, 2014 01:20
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Better than that, they're sassy now.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:24
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Werix posted:Speaking of which, what is responsible for this stupid "Necrons have emotions and personalities now" Bullshit? Is that something that came up in the tabletop codex, or originated at the fluff/novel level and bled over? It was the latest Necron codex that affected the fluff, I believe (though it got sort of foreshadowed/hinted at with the loony Necron Lord in Fall of Damnos if memory serves).
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Feb 8, 2014 01:27
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I'm gonna be honest, Necrons have always been pretty boring in my opinion. 40K doesn't exactly lack for implacable, overwhelming, alien threats that steadily march forward heedless of your defense and render entire worlds barren of all life...you've already got the Tyrannids doing that, so also having an army of green-lit Terminator robots to do it too seems redundant. I'm all for sassy Tomb Kings.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:47
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They could have gotten a better introduction than Fall of Damnos where the new Necron Lords are all portrayed as massive idiots who commit suicide because can't tell the difference between a resurrection orb and a vortex grenade and do things like butterfingering an unconscious guy so hard they cut off his head and not even notice it for a while or simply walking off cliffs because they weren't paying attention to where they were going.
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Feb 8, 2014 02:13
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Kai Tave posted:I'm gonna be honest, Necrons have always been pretty boring in my opinion. 40K doesn't exactly lack for implacable, overwhelming, alien threats that steadily march forward heedless of your defense and render entire worlds barren of all life...you've already got the Tyrannids doing that, so also having an army of green-lit Terminator robots to do it too seems redundant. I'm all for sassy Tomb Kings. I was actually kind of a fan of an alien species with no personality, whose motives were unknowable. A species that can't be bargained with, that can't be reasoned with, that doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And that absolutely will not stop, ever, until all life is dead. So yes, exactly green-lit terminators. If they felt the need to give a race some sort of personality, they should have done that with the Tyranids. Oh wait, they kind of did with the "elite" bio-morphs that are the same creature reborn over and over again. Why do they keep ruining this stuff?
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Feb 8, 2014 02:15
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Yeah, I feel like eldar, tau, and especially chaos have more than enough personality for enemies. Sassy terminators is pretty dumb, and I feel like tyranids and necrons are more than thematically different enough to share the "can't be reasoned with" trait.
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Feb 8, 2014 02:35
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Yeah, they keep trying to make everything MORE human The best part of the setting was how chaos and aliens were so inhuman that we couldn't even BEGIN to understand their motivations, and even trying to understand them usually drove people insane to one degree or another. Now necrons are just... humanoid robots who were once a flesh race. And Eldar are poncy humans who see the future and really obsess over poo poo, and Tau are just regular human-like dudes who are brainwashed into believing in the Greater Good. The only awesome guys left are the orks.
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Feb 8, 2014 03:29
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I'm pretty sure the best part of the setting was how everyone was  eighties  all the time.FFG should totally release a Rogue Trader rpg for April Fools Day.
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Feb 8, 2014 03:46
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Werix posted:I was actually kind of a fan of an alien species with no personality, whose motives were unknowable. A species that can't be bargained with, that can't be reasoned with, that doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And that absolutely will not stop, ever, until all life is dead. I think those are called Tyrannids, we already had those.
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Feb 8, 2014 04:12
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Night10194 posted:I think those are called Tyrannids, we already had those. I think the Necrons embodied it better. Maybe part of it is that Terminator aspect to the race itself; yeah the Tyranids are like that, but they are a giant wave of flesh intent on consuming everything: they are quick, spry, animated. The Necrons were a slow, lumbering race, they did not even have zeal for what they did, they just slowly marched on towards their enemies, feeling no pain, bleeding no blood, never really killable. To me, there is more horror in a slowly advancing tide of nigh invincible robit men than a giant wave of flesh and teeth. I just think the Necrons were a better soulless antagonist. Go full circle and have the Tyranids run by Kerrigan-esque a hive mind that is interested in biological perfection or some poo poo; give them personality and emotion and give me my soulless, unstoppable killing machines back.
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Feb 8, 2014 04:54
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Fair enough, and I could definitely see having fun making the Nids a little less faceless at times, too, as they've always turned out kinda boring when we've fought them.
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Feb 8, 2014 05:12
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I dunno, I LIKE sassy terminators. "Alien and Unknowable" is fun in theory but not if you want any sort of complex interaction other than "shoot on sight". What works on tabletop doesn't work in novels or rpgs (Other than stuff like Deathwatch, obv). Making them more comprehendable, even as the risk of more "human like" (Quite honestly orks are more understandable and human than Imperials.) is a good thing IMO Also, sassy necrons means there's now TWO races in the galaxy with a sense of humor. I approve.
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Feb 8, 2014 05:19
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We've already got goofy and relatable human traits in like every race BUT the necrons and tyranids, though? Eldar are practically psychic humans, tau are communists, orks are soccer hooligans, and Chaos are just more extreme expressions of regular emotions. I agree that not every major alien should be some unknowable intelligence, but poo poo, there's room for some to be.
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Feb 8, 2014 05:29
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FireSight posted:Yeah, they keep trying to make everything MORE human This is pretty accurate, emphasis on the orks are awesome because they are still the same nonsense football hooligans they have always been.
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Feb 8, 2014 12:30
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Ronwayne posted:I dunno, I LIKE sassy terminators. "Alien and Unknowable" is fun in theory but not if you want any sort of complex interaction other than "shoot on sight". What works on tabletop doesn't work in novels or rpgs (Other than stuff like Deathwatch, obv).
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Feb 8, 2014 14:11
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Werix posted:I think the Necrons embodied it better. Maybe part of it is that Terminator aspect to the race itself; yeah the Tyranids are like that, but they are a giant wave of flesh intent on consuming everything: they are quick, spry, animated. The Necrons were a slow, lumbering race, they did not even have zeal for what they did, they just slowly marched on towards their enemies, feeling no pain, bleeding no blood, never really killable. To me, there is more horror in a slowly advancing tide of nigh invincible robit men than a giant wave of flesh and teeth. Eh, to each his own. I much prefer Necrons to actually be a race as opposed to random don't-give-a-gently caress terminators that pop out of the ground occasionally to wipe planets of life. No motivation and no personality makes them really boring to me. Just another "kill everything" antagonist.
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Feb 8, 2014 14:15
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Necrons as faceless, implacable Terminator-bots work fine as a concept that lurks in the background as one of those "here there be dragons" deals, and 40K has a few of those floating around out there...xeno-horrors that get alluded to or who get mentioned in passing...but then they decided to make them a full-fledged army and I feel like that's the point where "faceless, emotionless dudes who pop up, kill everything and/or teleport away without a trace, rinse repeat" starts to look a bit thin on the engaging flavor front. And to be honest most Tradgames 40K I see tends to lean towards the sassy side anyway 
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Feb 8, 2014 14:56
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While you can do it, with other races, I especially like the image of an eons old skeleton robot lord in psudeo-egyptian drag giving a sinister monologue while his minions attack "WHAT IS A MAN?..."
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Feb 8, 2014 17:16
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Necrons were the horror of immortality. Eternal existance granted at the loss of the entirety of who they were. The Necron Lords woke to rule over the silent bodies of their friends and family. They got what they wanted, but had never understood the cost. The necrons were a horror story.
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Feb 8, 2014 20:30
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Well, if it helps, from what I understand the majority of the Necrons still are soulless, personality bereft drones that simply kill things and take orders. The standard warriors are essentially the same, Immortals have a tiny bit of themselves left, just enough to order around the lessers, but no emotions or anything. So, for the most part the only dudes/dudettes with that despicable capability for sass are the Lords and I think the Necrotechs or whatever. The science dudes. You know, those guys. Anyway, yeah. For the most part, they are still an unreasoning horde that's gonna kill everything they see and silently wander off. It's just now there's a slightly (slightly) more reasonable and much more sassy and insane robo-king ordering them around.
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Feb 8, 2014 21:51
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I'm about to start playing an Only War campaign, and I was wondering if there was a good way to manage my character sheet on an iPad. I've tried looking for apps, but most seem to be aimed at other types of D&D games such as Pathfinder etc. Anyone got any ideas?
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Feb 8, 2014 22:58
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This is honestly seems like a system that would benefit massively from an official app or coherent web support. Trying to keep track of everything in these games makes me feel like my head is hoing to explode, and trying to record everything by hand on a smartphone keyboard is just...
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Feb 8, 2014 23:05
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Gunder posted:I'm about to start playing an Only War campaign, and I was wondering if there was a good way to manage my character sheet on an iPad. I've tried looking for apps, but most seem to be aimed at other types of D&D games such as Pathfinder etc. Anyone got any ideas? It's not a character sheet, but here's a link to a Google Drive chart that lays out skill and talent advancement costs for each individual class: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ahv2w1fHiN1CdF9aMzlHNFJSOTB3MHZOQTNLYWtXMEE&usp=sharing You have to figure out your own additional aptitudes that come from your regiment or whatever, but this makes it a little faster.
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Feb 9, 2014 00:12
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Locomotive breath posted:So, for the most part the only dudes/dudettes with that despicable capability for sass are the Lords and I think the Necrotechs or whatever. The science dudes. You know, those guys Cypteks. And yeah this dude is right. It's now a bunch of lords playing out their dynastic fantasies and having nobody to appreciate their successes except for other lords, many of whom hate them or are too insane to care. Just a bunch of robot slaves
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Feb 9, 2014 15:15
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The C'Tan were too similar to the Chaos Gods and needed of be retconned. That left an even bigger personality deficiency for the tabletop army. So solve both problems at once by giving them ancient, alien, malignant, but identifiable and varied goals. It works pretty well, I think. But thinking of all the xenos as fundamentally human is a big mistake (though a natural one). It's normal to anthropologise all kinds of things but that doesn't really make it human, it just means you're likely to make a foolish mistake. Also "unknowably intelligent enemies" is a narrative concept that cannot effectively support a military story for very long. DOCTOR ZIMBARDO fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Feb 9, 2014 |
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Feb 9, 2014 17:22
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Speaking of all this alien fluff, are Tau still ostensibly portrayed as being local to a small piece of the galaxy due to their FTL tech? Does anyone (FFG, GW, random DMs) ever stop and wonder where in the galaxy the specific scene is and if the Tau could be there? Also I went into our local gaming store Saturday night for the first time ~ten years. Man, it all seemed exactly the same. Except all the dorks playing magic had gotten way younger and they didn't even TRY to sell Warhammer Fantasy figures.
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Feb 9, 2014 21:34
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There's a lot of handwaving and mysterious artifice to ensure that the appropriate people are present for every fight. Kroot that are heavily implied to have had contact with the Tau are found in the Koronus Expanse - despite it being on entirely the wrong side of the galaxy - so you can argue that there are strange warp-paths that can make travel around the galaxy easier. It doesn't really matter anyway, because even if their ships are "only" 1/5 as fast as Imperial ones, Imperial ships are described as going 5 light years in a few days. Even at a light year or two a week you can still cross the bulk of the galaxy in a few centuries. Practically instantaneous compared to the timescales a lot of 40k works with.
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Feb 9, 2014 22:03
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What I always found weird was how they always portray the Sol system as the center of the galaxy. I mean, it makes sense that Imperial maps are Terra-centric, doubly so considering the reliance on the Astronomicon, but they're always depicting the edge of inter-galactic void being an equal distance in all directions from Earth. I'd kinda expect that you'd have the void on one end, and then an increasingly dense set of stars eventually leading to 'astra incognita', not empty space. I mean, the Koronus expanse is sort of like that, in that it's supposed to be 'star systems beyond the light of the Astronomicon', but they seem to just go 'fart, intergalactic void & tyranids' pretty quickly. Plus, there's always vague references to fighting battles Holy poo poo, forget Psyker X-Men, I want a Rogue Trader Squats game. Squat Trader or Rogue Squats? Could probably do generic Rogue Trader ventures, but Squat specific stuff would probably involve the Tyranid Hive Fleet that ate the Squat Worlds, whether it be before, during, or after. Like, the devouring is such a big event that it's 'fated' to happen (players Wait, located at the galactic core, but eaten by tyranids? I'm guessing it's Hive Fleet Leviathan.
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Feb 9, 2014 22:36
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Jack B Nimble posted:Speaking of all this alien fluff, are Tau still ostensibly portrayed as being local to a small piece of the galaxy due to their FTL tech? Does anyone (FFG, GW, random DMs) ever stop and wonder where in the galaxy the specific scene is and if the Tau could be there? In all my years writing 40k campaigns I've never bothered to even learn the names of the 4 segmentums or where anyone is. I've never found it added anything to worry about galactic geography. The poo poo that needs to be nearby for the story happens to be nearby, done.
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Feb 9, 2014 22:54
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