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Kilazar posted:I guess I just don't get the whole metaand only playing "top 10"s. Or looking up decks online to play locally. I just play out of my collection and what I can trade. I did make a purchase for pack rats, but that was for my wife and a crazy rat deck I want to make. She's getting two and I'm getting two. And we have had no luck in cracking any open. Especially right now when the card is $8 a piece, you can do so much more in modern for that much. Restore Balance got mentioned upthread, and the non-budget version that I'm working on building is like $70 for the whole deck, and that's including the $10 sideboard and a $10 card that you can skip for budget. Budget Affinity, Infect, Burn, and various aggro decks aren't much more. I definitely get what you mean about just making goofy decks for casual play, but most of the people who actually talk about a card being "good" in Modern or Legacy are talking about them being tournament viable. Nightveil has an ability that will in a lot of games do nothing aside from maintaining land drops.
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Feb 10, 2014 18:11
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Madmarker posted:An even better examle is Savannah Lion, where we had a 2/1 for 1 being a highly sought rare to being a junk uncommon. Not to mention getting a strictly better upgrade in Theros. Savannah Lion is still going strong in cube (at least until there's a few more 2 power one drops in white).
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Feb 10, 2014 18:11
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Madmarker posted:Heh, its crazy how good creatures have become, I mean, would people even run Wild Mongrel if it were legal in standard now? Hell yeah, discard your smiter to it. t2 free 4/4. It'd make GW really good.
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Feb 10, 2014 18:13
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Smiter only works on effects your opponent controls.
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Feb 10, 2014 18:15
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I respond to your thoughtsieze by pitching my entire hand to wild mongrel 
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Feb 10, 2014 18:16
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Kilazar posted:I guess I just don't get the whole metaand only playing "top 10"s. Or looking up decks online to play locally. I just play out of my collection and what I can trade. I did make a purchase for pack rats, but that was for my wife and a crazy rat deck I want to make. She's getting two and I'm getting two. And we have had no luck in cracking any open. If your group is all people like that, its great. But once someone builds a deck that is 4x of good cards or 4x of cards with a lot of synergy, then suddenly that isn't good enough anymore. It is an arms race. If wizards puts up $30,000+ of prizes, and you can have a real job talking about magic cards for a living provided you are good at the game and can write well, then competition will inevitably become about the absolute best decks, the meta and top 10's. If you like magic enough to spend a lot of time thinking about it and reading about it, you probably will become interested in the current format meta's and what decks are tier 1 etc. because it is where competition takes the game. Limited formats like draft and sealed are sort of tournament replica's of creating the best deck you can out of a bunch of random cards you open, which is what you are talking about. jassi007 fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Feb 10, 2014 |
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Feb 10, 2014 18:16
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Smiter only works on effects your opponent controls. Well hurf. I should RTFC
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Feb 10, 2014 18:17
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Oh, and since I finally caught up with the thread, I finally get to say my favorite card! I started playing in Innistrad Block, so Mayor of Avabruck has been a real hero to me. I had a GW humans midrange-y deck that I played, and curving out with Champion of the Parish, Mayor, Champion of Lambholdt, Mayor Mayor was always a blast when it happened. The same deck also makes Angelic Skirmisher and Odric two of my favorites, they were both great finishers for the deck, and the amount of confusion that people had when I was able to swing with vigilance and then block with first strike/lifelink was always great. Currently my favorite card is probably the entirety of Breakfast Burrito (cheating, I know) just for the look on my friends' faces when I explain how the deck works 
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Feb 10, 2014 18:19
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jassi007 posted:Well hurf. I should RTFC Faithless Looting into two turn 1 Smiters would have been pretty busted.
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Feb 10, 2014 18:31
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Kilazar posted:Got an acquisition question. I missed out on some really fun looking blocks. And looking at the price list on them, it is not unreasonable for me to pick up a play set of say the ice age block or Alara block. How do you do that without getting eaten alive by shipping on tcgplayer? Is there a site that will sell you full play set blocks without a super price mark up? As long as you are staying away from the money cards that is. Some places on tcgplayer do Super Saver Shipping, so if you live in the US you can pay much lower shipping on orders above $50.
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Feb 10, 2014 18:32
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jassi007 posted:If your group is all people like that, its great. But once someone builds a deck that is 4x of good cards or 4x of cards with a lot of synergy, then suddenly that isn't good enough anymore. It is an arms race. If wizards puts up $30,000+ of prizes, and you can have a real job talking about magic cards for a living provided you are good at the game and can write well, then competition will inevitably become about the absolute best decks, the meta and top 10's. If you like magic enough to spend a lot of time thinking about it and reading about it, you probably will become interested in the current format meta's and what decks are tier 1 etc. because it is where competition takes the game. Limited formats like draft and sealed are sort of tournament replica's of creating the best deck you can out of a bunch of random cards you open, which is what you are talking about. Thankfully not everyone is a rockstar. And top tier netdecks can be shut down at FNM if the person driving doesn't know the nuances of the deck. Even super synergized decks can be played horribly if the person doesn't have a tight play style/order of operation. Or intuition on when to hold something back, and proper threat assessment. I had a "top tier" netdecker during innistraad block. Super experienced players could shut him down even with gimmick decks. And I never had a problem shutting him down about 75% of the time. The other 25% his synergies would carry the game regardless of bad plays. So while I bemoan the netdecking, I don't necessarily think it's bad. It just seems that more and more people that show up to FNM all think they are the next big name, and everyone's playing whatever top 3 decks won last weeks national tourney. I think that was a big reason I pulled back out of magic when Avacyn dropped. It was not fun even when I won a game to play these people. They don't lose graciously, and when they win they are stupidly smug. And that seemed to be the most common arch type in my area. While I play to win, I also play to have fun. And playing against people who are not remotely interested in fun, kind of killed it for me. Anyhow enough out of me on that. I've been playing for a loooong time and am just doing the old man grumble on how things are changed. And I'm sure in the ten editions of this thread this conversation has probably been beaten into the ground several times.
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Feb 10, 2014 18:35
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Complete Sets List on Starcity You may be able to find what you are looking for there.
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Feb 10, 2014 18:36
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Kilazar posted:Anyhow enough out of me on that. I've been playing for a loooong time and am just doing the old man grumble on how things are changed. And I'm sure in the ten editions of this thread this conversation has probably been beaten into the ground several times. As someone who's been around for this conversation (and mostly agrees with you) you're probably going to want to play limited or casual, or just find a different store. Some stores are more casual, and some have environments like you described. Or just make a few friends and tell them to come over with a 6-pack and a couple of lovely decks and a trade binder 
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Feb 10, 2014 18:42
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OssiansFolly posted:Complete Sets List on Starcity Thanks! Can I get some recommendations on fun missed sets? I have some Alara (friend and I bought a box on release. But didn't actually get to play it)so I already know I'm going to visit it. I know I want to do the newer bits of the ice age block because I liked original Ice age and never got to see the follow up sets. I originally got out around Tempest. Popped back in for a touch of Urza's, then dropped back out until Innistrad. Then again, dropped out at Avacyn Restored.
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Feb 10, 2014 18:42
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Is that art from the FTV announcement something I don't recognize or is it implied that's new art from the set? Cause it looks like Sulfuric Vortex to me.
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Feb 10, 2014 18:44
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Kilazar posted:Thanks! I've always loved Odyssey and Onslaught personally...
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Feb 10, 2014 18:49
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Kilazar posted:Thankfully not everyone is a rockstar. And top tier netdecks can be shut down at FNM if the person driving doesn't know the nuances of the deck. Even super synergized decks can be played horribly if the person doesn't have a tight play style/order of operation. Or intuition on when to hold something back, and proper threat assessment. I have gotten into building "the real decks" because I want to play them and go to some events a little more competitive than fnm. I am not the next "anyone" but I sure do like affinity and if there is a modern FNM I'll play it. Also I find that if you get magic at some point you sort of wander into decks that end up being good. My friend and I started brewing with Theros before the meta settled and I evolved R aggro into Rw Devotion that ended up really similar to the deck Thea Steele has done well with. When I saw her list, I saw a few obvious changes I could make to my deck, but when I was already running ash zealot, bte, reckoner, dragon, fanatic of mogis, 4 nykthos 4 temple 4 foundry, some mizzium mortars it isn't a real stretch to make the few changes to make your deck a little better (replaced 4 magma jet for chained to the rocks maindeck and swapped chandra's phoenix for frostburn weird). I hesitate to say but I feel that if I had played the deck more I'd have figured it out eventually. I get to play 1-3 nights a month, usually one "event" and 1 or 2 casual nights with a playgroup. I do find at some point it is hard to play with casual people because once you are pretty good at identifying good constructed cards and you trade or buy playsets, its hard to have decks that lose to whatever_I_get_out_of_packs.dec So I end up making silly things like UG mill with doorkeeper and axebane guardian and minotaur tribal with didgeridoo just to have things that don't blow people up constantly because that poo poo is no fun for anyone.
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Feb 10, 2014 18:50
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jassi007 posted:I do find at some point it is hard to play with casual people because once you are pretty good at identifying good constructed cards and you trade or buy playsets, its hard to have decks that lose to whatever_I_get_out_of_packs.dec So I end up making silly things like UG mill with doorkeeper and axebane guardian and minotaur tribal with didgeridoo just to have things that don't blow people up constantly because that poo poo is no fun for anyone. Honestly it kinda blows, I never got to live this part of magic. I played a little magic in Innistrad block but didn't stick with it because the group I played with fell apart (girlfriend had car repairs and lost her job at the same time, guy who organized drafts ragequit magic forever [again] because I took round 1 off of him with double Somberwald Dryad two games in a row  ) I didn't really come back until Ravnica, when I made a buddy who had been playing for years, and basically I brought over GW Humans and UB Zombies I borrowed from my girlfriends collection.decs and he pulls out Fog Superfriends Control with Door to Nothingness for good measure. Then other Fog Control Knowledge Pool Curse of Exhaustion combo.dec next game.I basically gave up playing any of my decks against him and usually played his own decks against him, and just got to skip straight to building a good deck when I got the money and draft winnings 
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Feb 10, 2014 18:59
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weekly font posted:Is that art from the FTV announcement something I don't recognize or is it implied that's new art from the set? Cause it looks like Sulfuric Vortex to me. They always announce FTV with one new art for an old card, but don't tell you what card.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:05
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jassi007 posted:I have gotten into building "the real decks" because I want to play them and go to some events a little more competitive than fnm. I am not the next "anyone" but I sure do like affinity and if there is a modern FNM I'll play it. Also I find that if you get magic at some point you sort of wander into decks that end up being good. My friend and I started brewing with Theros before the meta settled and I evolved R aggro into Rw Devotion that ended up really similar to the deck Thea Steele has done well with. When I saw her list, I saw a few obvious changes I could make to my deck, but when I was already running ash zealot, bte, reckoner, dragon, fanatic of mogis, 4 nykthos 4 temple 4 foundry, some mizzium mortars it isn't a real stretch to make the few changes to make your deck a little better (replaced 4 magma jet for chained to the rocks maindeck and swapped chandra's phoenix for frostburn weird). I hesitate to say but I feel that if I had played the deck more I'd have figured it out eventually. I get to play 1-3 nights a month, usually one "event" and 1 or 2 casual nights with a playgroup. I can believe this. Just brewing through my collection and putting together a deck out of my stuff last month I came drat close to the Top 10 black devotion. I only found out when my friend asked me if I netdecked it. So I looked it up and I was running slightly different monsters. But other than that my deck looked very similar in style. I was rocking my single desecration demon, 4 gary's, 2 erobos gods, the whip and my lonely NVS. As similar cards with similar goals. The rest of the deck added some win conditions outside of devotion gary bombs and my new one cost mvp the Shadow Alley Denizen. I would like to think that had I some pack rats eventually I would have pushed my deck closer to a top performer naturally. Mostly because this is not rocket science. http://deckbox.org/sets/600658 Here it is. I'm going to push the mutavault to sideboard and one baleful eidolon to fit in my two new NVS's. And probably pull the debt to the debtless and plains out of my sideboard. I have not tried making them work in the deck yet. Because the deck performed so well without the white splash that i'm not sure I want to try for a white splash with such a high costing card. Kilazar fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Feb 10, 2014 |
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Feb 10, 2014 19:05
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Death Bot posted:Honestly it kinda blows, I never got to live this part of magic. I played a little magic in Innistrad block but didn't stick with it because the group I played with fell apart (girlfriend had car repairs and lost her job at the same time, guy who organized drafts ragequit magic forever [again] because I took round 1 off of him with double Somberwald Dryad two games in a row Yeah a couple of our friends in our playgroup just never care about competitive constructed magic. If I have affinity they'll play mill or vampires and lose to it and just not really care, but I always feel pretty bad. So we play more Planeschase, EDH with not serious decks, and dumb decks. Our friends love mill and vampires and bad elf decks and protection from all the things white decks and they have no interest in changing, so we play decks that work against them. Its really about bullshitting and some drinks and some time away from the kids (we're all in our 30's with kids) There is another playgroup in our small area that are much more serious, they are big into legacy and even EDH is really competitive with them. We took our casual friends to one FNM for modern masters and they didn't have a very good time. My one friend and I sort of straddle both groups, we go to GPT's and such with the more competitive people but we mostly hang out with the more casual group.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:06
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Kilazar posted:I can believe this. Just brewing through my collection and putting together a deck out of my stuff last month I came drat close to the Top 10 black devotion. I only found out when my friend asked me if I netdecked it. So I looked it up and I was running slightly different monsters. But other than that my deck looked very similar in style. I was rocking my single desecration demon, 4 gary's, 2 erobos gods, the whip and my lonely NVS. As similar cards with similar goals. The rest of the deck added some win conditions outside of devotion gary bombs and my new one cost mvp the Shadow Alley Denizen. I would like to think that had I some pack rats eventually I would have pushed my deck closer to a top performer naturally. Mostly because this is not rocket science. As someone in this thread or the deck building thread said to me a week or 2 ago. There are only so many combos and cards that can go into a deck. By now someone somewhere has made or will make the deck you are using. At this point in the game you either keep what you have and play for fun, OR you buy the tweak cards to put in your deck to push you into competitive gaming.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:08
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A netdecking opponent is awesome when you run slaughter games. oh, you've played 4 islands? Well then slaughter games naming Master of Waves.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:13
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jassi007 posted:Yeah a couple of our friends in our playgroup just never care about competitive constructed magic. If I have affinity they'll play mill or vampires and lose to it and just not really care, but I always feel pretty bad. So we play more Planeschase, EDH with not serious decks, and dumb decks. Our friends love mill and vampires and bad elf decks and protection from all the things white decks and they have no interest in changing, so we play decks that work against them. Its really about bullshitting and some drinks and some time away from the kids (we're all in our 30's with kids) There is another playgroup in our small area that are much more serious, they are big into legacy and even EDH is really competitive with them. We took our casual friends to one FNM for modern masters and they didn't have a very good time. My one friend and I sort of straddle both groups, we go to GPT's and such with the more competitive people but we mostly hang out with the more casual group. The problem with casual play is you have to have a group that is at the same level effortwise. The second one person, tries harder, spends more money, gets better or whatever the balance is thrown off and the group can easily splinter. Thats not to dismiss casual magic as less-than, its just a different style of play, closer to playing a pen-and-paper RPG with cards than a competitive game. Still fun, but vastly different. The people who complain about netdeckers, are the same people who decry min-maxers, these people play different games using the same base system.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:15
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My favorite card will always be erratic portal because it made a friend of mine so mad that he bit the poo poo out of it.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:17
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Failboattootoot posted:My favorite card will always be erratic portal because it made a friend of mine so mad that he bit the poo poo out of it. Thats the same reason that I love one, and only one Planechase card, Naar Isle. Every other card just feels so silly, but that one, at a big table......watching the politics is AMAZING. I for one never roll on Naar Isle, its to much fun to see everyone else struggle to get off the plane.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:19
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Madmarker posted:The problem with casual play is you have to have a group that is at the same level effortwise. The second one person, tries harder, spends more money, gets better or whatever the balance is thrown off and the group can easily splinter. Thats not to dismiss casual magic as less-than, its just a different style of play, closer to playing a pen-and-paper RPG with cards then a competitive game. Still fun, but vastly different. The people who complain about netdeckers, are the same people who decry min-maxers, these people play different games using the same base system. I understand what you mean. If you care about your playgroup you'll play to their level even if you are also building stuff beyond the kitchen table. Build that dumb GW voracious wurm lifegain deck and your casual friend will be more impressed by your 15/15 wurm than by your t3 modern stormdeck combo killing machine.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:21
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jassi007 posted:I understand what you mean. If you care about your playgroup you'll play to their level even if you are also building stuff beyond the kitchen table. Build that dumb GW voracious wurm lifegain deck and your casual friend will be more impressed by your 15/15 wurm than by your t3 modern stormdeck combo killing machine.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:25
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Madmarker posted:Agreed, I've tried to maintain a balance, but it can be difficult to sometimes. Especially when your favorite cards are all blue. This might be where I am. I JUST got into a play group and it seems they are pretty casual and only been playing since innistrad / RtR. I'm no pro, but I've been playing since alpha. And my decks tend to naturally be pretty decent almost competitive on a minor tourney level. And it's hard to NOT make good decks when you have so much experience with deck building comparatively speaking. Even fun theme decks that build that 15/15 casually impressive wurm tend to rip through casually inexperienced players to the point that I have to intentionally make bad plays. I don't mind because I'm there for fun first and foremost. But it can be hard to keep the line without pushing the player group into a more competitive play style.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:29
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Kilazar posted:This might be where I am. I JUST got into a play group and it seems they are pretty casual and only been playing since innistrad / RtR. I'm no pro, but I've been playing since alpha. And my decks tend to naturally be pretty decent almost competitive on a minor tourney level. And it's hard to NOT make good decks when you have so much experience with deck building comparatively speaking. Even fun theme decks that build that 15/15 casually impressive wurm tend to rip through casually inexperienced players to the point that I have to intentionally make bad plays. I don't mind because I'm there for fun first and foremost. But it can be hard to keep the line without pushing the player group into a more competitive play style. Never run removal or sweepers is a good start. Make sure to run a lot of high CMC junk. Minotaurs are pretty funny when they're all 3 and 4 drops. You lose a good amount of the time but sometimes you get 2 lords out and 2 or 3 big minotaurs and they can't deal with it anyway. Also really consider planeschase. The randomness of it helps even things out a lot. When a casual gets a 7/7 annihilator 1 and then the plane shifts, they become more of a threat because the dice helped them out basically. lastly bad tribal edh decks are great. Build RW giants brion stoutarm or something silly.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:35
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jassi007 posted:I understand what you mean. If you care about your playgroup you'll play to their level even if you are also building stuff beyond the kitchen table. Build that dumb GW voracious wurm lifegain deck and your casual friend will be more impressed by your 15/15 wurm than by your t3 modern stormdeck combo killing machine. Nothing demonstrates this point more than playing a Nekusar EDH deck with friends...we had a 5 man game going and I got a perfect storm of playing Bloodchief Ascension turn 1, Liliana's Caress turn 2 and on turn 4 I had the counters on Ascension to play Wheel and Deal. The hate that turned my way IMMEDIATELY following that play was actually hilarious. Nothing grabs attention like doing roughly 20 damage to every player AND gaining over 30 health with 1 card on turn 4. Going forward I think I will play my Prossh deck that will hopefully get less hate from the guys that didn't put the time and money into their EDH decks like I have...
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Feb 10, 2014 19:37
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jassi007 posted:Never run removal or sweepers is a good start. Make sure to run a lot of high CMC junk. Minotaurs are pretty funny when they're all 3 and 4 drops. You lose a good amount of the time but sometimes you get 2 lords out and 2 or 3 big minotaurs and they can't deal with it anyway. Also really consider planeschase. The randomness of it helps even things out a lot. When a casual gets a 7/7 annihilator 1 and then the plane shifts, they become more of a threat because the dice helped them out basically. lastly bad tribal edh decks are great. Build RW giants brion stoutarm or something silly. Can't look it up at work. Whats planechase? And I so desperately want to build a goblin EDH deck. I just haven't found a good commander for it yet that is a goblin and fun. He's really the only thing holding me back from building it. The supporting spells and lands are easy.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:43
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jassi007 posted:Never run removal or sweepers is a good start. Make sure to run a lot of high CMC junk. Minotaurs are pretty funny when they're all 3 and 4 drops. You lose a good amount of the time but sometimes you get 2 lords out and 2 or 3 big minotaurs and they can't deal with it anyway. Also really consider planeschase. The randomness of it helps even things out a lot. When a casual gets a 7/7 annihilator 1 and then the plane shifts, they become more of a threat because the dice helped them out basically. lastly bad tribal edh decks are great. Build RW giants brion stoutarm or something silly. I can't really stand planechase, people love it, and I tolerate it, but I have shown up with a deck of 56 snow lands and 4 scrying sheets and won thanks to the planes so....... Kilazar posted:Can't look it up at work. Whats planechase? Krenko, Mob Boss Wort, Boggart Auntie Shattergang Brothers
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Feb 10, 2014 19:44
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Kilazar posted:Thanks! Zendikar block was really awesome, between Allies, Landfall, Traps, and Eldrazi, this block is full of awesome flavor, and super fun gameplay. If you are interested in playing limited, Rise of the Eldrazi is in my opinion, the best draft set ever printed. If you just want to build sweet decks out of the cards, you can make Ally decks, potent mono black vampire decks, merfolk decks, eldrazi ramp decks, elf decks, and lands matter decks.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:45
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jassi007 posted:I understand what you mean. If you care about your playgroup you'll play to their level even if you are also building stuff beyond the kitchen table. Build that dumb GW voracious wurm lifegain deck and your casual friend will be more impressed by your 15/15 wurm than by your t3 modern stormdeck combo killing machine. I feel like this post was made for me, though my Voracious Wurms are usually around 9/9. I've always found my enjoyment of the game comes from the fringes of deck building. In particular, I like to focus on specific mechanics and build around them. That being said, things I turn out tend to be lopsided and a well-timed board wipe is game over for me most of the time. Coming from that mindset of tinkering with mechanics and building primarily from scraps, it's hard to understand where the fun is in netdecking. I have over 50 different decks, with probably 15 or so in standard. If I only had 3 or 4 decks I think I would get bored inside a week.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:46
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NofrikinfuN posted:Coming from that mindset of tinkering with mechanics and building primarily from scraps, it's hard to understand where the fun is in netdecking. I have over 50 different decks, with probably 15 or so in standard. If I only had 3 or 4 decks I think I would get bored inside a week. Johnny Timmy Spike Melvin Vorthos Learn your magic psychographic profile, and you can use these tools to understand what other people get out of the game. I am a Spike/Melvin primarily.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:51
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Kilazar posted:Can't look it up at work. Whats planechase? I use Wort Boggart Auntie. most of the fun/good goblins are red or black, and you really don't need her to do anything,but if you want to recycle a goblin card cast her, then get it back on your next upkeep! I rarely actually cast her. http://deckbox.org/sets/382135 Planechase is a multiplayer product that has special oversized cards, that are planes. You Planeswalk. Each Plane has some effect, and you get a special 6 sided dice with 2 symbols and a couple blanks. One symbol means go to a new plane, one is chaos and you get an effect from the Plane card. here is an example card. Glimmervoid Basin Plane — Mirrodin Whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery spell with a single target, he or she copies that spell for each other spell, permanent, card not on the battlefield, and/or player the spell could target. Each copy targets a different one of them. Whenever you roll Chaos, choose target creature. Each player except that creature's controller puts a token that's a copy of that creature onto the battlefield. You can see how even some casual deck could go nuts with effects like that. You are playing your jund deck or whatever, and someone casts a stone rain, and suddenly everyone destroys a land etc. I'm sure there are better examples but I can't think of one off the top of my head.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:54
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Madmarker posted:Shattergang Brothers I bought the premade Commander 2013 deck with these guys in it, and I can tell you it is a hoot, hollar and blast to play this gimmick. Will it beat a Captain Sisay deck? Probably not. But in the premade form the deck came in I definitely had a lot of fun playing with the Shattergang Brothers.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:55
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Madmarker posted:Johnny Melvin and Vorthos aren't game design psychographics. They're profiles for how people interpret card aesthetics, not profiles for how people enjoy playing magic.
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Feb 10, 2014 19:58
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Kilazar posted:Can't look it up at work. Whats planechase? Ishi-ishi, akki crackshot
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Feb 10, 2014 19:59
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